Hi Max,
Welcome to the Religion Forum. Although, I will admit that I do get that strange feeling that you are our dear atheist Friend, Deep, wearing another costume. I am always amused when our atheist Friends feel that strong need to post using different names. It does make me wonder if it is only so that the atheist may dialogue with himself -- therefore lending support to himself through an anonymous donor.
But, be that as it may, you tell us, "Yes, great truths are found in the Bible's teachings. But how can a book, which claims to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and is proven in the historical record to be such a compilation as I have described, be trusted on any count? This is a sad indictment indeed, for it gives comfort to many people.
And, at this point, I will have to ask of you: Show me one instance where the Bible is in error. Science, archeology, has proven the Bible to be right many, many times -- but, it has never, even once, shown the Bible to be in error. So, Max, please show us reliable historical record which proves the Bible wrong.
Then, you tell us, "But the fact remains, that though many are comforted, a larger number of people around the world are condemned by the same writings. This is simply a Middle Ages device to bring certain people (Catholics) into power, and to keep them there.
The only folks condemned in the Bible are those who have denied God -- and have refused His free gift of salvation which has been "paid in full" by Jesus Christ on the cross. So, in reality, God has not condemned these people; they have condemned themselves by rejecting God's gift of salvation.
Next, you tell us, "I am an agnostic who fervently wishes he knew the truth about the Higher Power, believed by many to have created the universe. In my studies, I have thoroughly read the Bible, and unfortunately have found it wanting. Anything that claims to be the inspired word of God, and is so easily discredited by History, can simply not be."
And, my Friend, LMM, replies, "Max, You are an atheist."
You then respond, "Now, I am trying to avoid putting labels on the individuals here. I think I know my beliefs better than anyone. There is a difference between atheists and agnostics. You are a clever, and interesting person."
How true, Max. There is a big difference between the atheist and the agnostic. The atheist is the one with his head buried in the sand, ostrich-style, afraid to look -- because God just might be real.
And, the agnostic is Humpty-Dumpty sitting on the fence -- ready to fall in either direction -- dependent upon which way the spiritual wind blows.
You claim to have read the Bible; but, I suspect you have read much more of Dawkins, Hitchens, et al -- than of the Bible.
I find it hard to believe anyone has read the full Bible who is not a believer. Why do I feel this way? Well, I recall my own attempts to read the Bible before I was a believer. For many years, I traveled because of my job in the computer industry. I lost track of how many hotel rooms, how many cities, how many airports -- I passed through. And, that kind of lifestyle does get lonely and often depressing. At times when I felt lonely, in need of a spiritual pick-me-up, or just plain needed strength to get through another series of hotel rooms and cities -- I would open the bedside night stand drawer and take out the Gideon's Bible. I had often heard how some folks found comfort and peace reading the Bible -- and I needed that comfort and peace.
I would read a few verses -- and, confused because I did not understand what I was reading -- would put it back into the drawer, turn on the television, or go for a walk. I did lots of walking in those days.
My point is this: I found no comfort in the Bible -- because I did not understand the Bible. To me, it was a nice book that many had recommended; but, it just left me confused. Why was this? Because I did not have the spiritual discernment which one can only get through the Holy Spirit.
In 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 we read, "And even if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
That is a good description of me in those days; my eyes were veiled, I was perishing, I could not see God nor understand His Word -- for I was under the influence of the god of this world, Satan.
Why would the Gospel be veiled to the non-believer? Because the god of this world, Satan, has blinded the eyes of the non-believer. He uses those who believe they are smarter than God, i.e., Dawkins, Hitchens, and many of our atheist Friends on the Religion Forum -- to blind the minds of many who might otherwise seek and find the glory of God.
2 Corinthians 4:6, "For God, who said, 'Light shall shine out of darkness,' is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."
Yes, the only way a person can have the Light shine into their hearts is for the Holy Spirit to illumine them with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many who have not hardened theirs hearts completely, as did Pharaoh in Egypt, always have the chance of cracking the door of their hearts, just a wee bit -- to allow some of the Holy Spirit light to pierce the darkness. Praise God, that happened for me -- and it can happen for everyone who will not allow Satan to completely harden their hearts.
In Luke 8:9-10, after Jesus had told the multitude the Parable of the Sower, his disciples questioned Him, "Then His disciples asked Him, saying, 'What does this parable mean?' And He said, 'To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that "Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand."'"
Those whose heart is still totally wrapped in darkness -- will not see, even though the light is coming from Christ Himself.
Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel speaks of the Parable of the Sower in his commentary on Luke 7-8 (C2000 Series):
So we realize that the Word of God falls on different types of soil, or there is a different reception in the hearts of people to the Word of God. And the Lord is sort of illustrating the four types of people upon whom the Word of God falls.
"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved" (Luke 8:12).
Immediately there is just nothing, there is no penetration. The Word comes, but immediately Satan snatches it away, and it is as though they had never heard.
That is the spiritual darkness which engulfs all non-believers. That is the spiritual darkness which engulfed me before 1987. But, praise God, by the grace of God -- that changed for me -- and it can change for you.
In 1987, God brought a loving, Godly pastor, Sam Lacanienta, into my life -- and God changed my life through that pastor. It was not overnight; but, it happened. I met Pastor Sam when Dory and I went to a friend's home for a party one Saturday evening. The first thing I noticed was that he was full of love; which I later recognized as Godly love. Because it was a party, he did not preach or evangelize; but, the warmth and love I felt from him made me want to attend their church the next day.
At this church, I felt that same love -- sent by God, flowing through this pastor, and permeating the entire congregation. That love made me want come back the next Sunday. My wife had been trying to get me to go to church for ten years; yet, God accomplished this by showing His love through one man and through one congregation.
The following Friday, my wife, Dory, asked if I wanted to go to Bible study. I had no idea what this was, since all the churches I had wandered in and out of for fifty years -- had never invited me to one. But, we went to the home Bible study at the Nibut home and I felt that same love in this group.
This love, from God, through the pastor, permeating the congregation and the Bible study group -- kept me coming back to Sunday worship and to Bible study for the next six months. That six months was a time of growing for me. With their help, guided by the Holy Spirit, I began to understand the Bible and the messages God has for us in His Bible. It was like light shining into a perpetually dark room; it was God's light finally shining into my heart. At the end of six months, I invited Jesus Christ to be my personal Lord and Savior; I became a Christ Follower, a Christian.
That darkness which kept me from understanding the Bible all those years, in all those hotel rooms -- was finally extinguished by the Word of God. And, Max, this can happen for you, for Deep, for Skeptik, for Miami, and for all non-believers -- if you are willing to take your head out of the sand -- or climb down off your agnostic wall -- and see God for who He truly is -- your only Way to have eternal LIFE.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
