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Reply to "Is The Old Testament Still Valid In The New Testament Churches?"

quote:
Originally posted by Punkin: Mr. Firenze, I asked Mr. Bill Gray this very question. I asked him if he believed if Christ's Kingdom was began on the Day of Pentecost. Do you know that he started talking all this rapture stuff, and quoting people who wrote books, and all that, and, now that I think about it, he never really answered the question.

I believe in what you do. And, I do not want to offend Mr. Bill, because he has been very patient with me, but I just wish that he would answer my question with a simple yes or no. I don't think he does. I just don't.

Hi Punkin,

First, let's make a clarification. Christ's church, the body of believers, began on the Day of Pentecost; but, Christ's Kingdom did not begin then. In Matthew 4:17 we read, "From that time Jesus began to preach and say, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'" Jesus is telling them that the kingdom of heaven, in the form of their Messiah, is at hand -- but, the Jews rejected Him. So, although the kingdom of heaven was at hand -- this world was and still is, the kingdom of Satan -- the title deed given to him by Adam. If you doubt this, count the number of Christians in the world -- compared to the number of people in the world religions and the number of non-believers.

So, it was the Church, with Christ as its head, which was begun on the Day of Pentecost. At the end of the Tribulation, Jesus Christ will return with the raptured church, His bride, and the Old Testament saints, to establish His Millennial Kingdom. Then, the Kingdom of Jesus Christ will be on the earth, where He will sit on the throne of David in the holy city of Jerusalem. And, this kingdom of peace will last for one thousand years. Then, we will go into eternity with Him.

Punkin, if you will recall, in the initial post which began this discussion, I opened with:

In another Religion Forum discussion I began, "Can We Truly Understand End Times Prophecies?" -- my Friend, Punkin, has posed comments and questions on several really important issues: (1) the validity of the Old Testament in the New Testament church, and (2) and what defines a "Holiness" church? For more clarity, I have chosen to post my response to these as two separate new discussions.

And, I did indeed answer your question about the validity of the Old Testament. The answer I still owe you -- and have not posted yet -- is the question about the Holiness church.

Regarding the validity of the Old Testament in the New Testament church, I wrote:

The Old Testament saints waited in Hades until Jesus Christ, their Messiah, came to personally take them into heaven -- after He died on the cross to pay "in full" the sin debt for all mankind. (Ephesians 4:8).

Today, Christian believers are taken into heaven upon their earthly death. For the Christian believer, when he breathes his last breath on earth -- his next breath will be in heaven, in the presence of Jesus Christ.

So, no, Punkin, we cannot discard the Old Testament. Yet, the question which all of our atheist Friends will surely raise is, "In the Old Testament, the penalty for homosexuality, fornication, and many other sins was death. Should those people be killed today because of those sins? If the Old Testament is still valid; why not the penalties given there?"

Yes, the Old Testament penalty of death for our sins is still valid. However, praise God, Jesus Christ "paid in full" that physical death sentence we all deserve. Now, we can attain life, spiritual and eternal life, through faith in Him.

Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all our sins. In the Old Testament, the penalty for sin was death, physical death. Jesus Christ paid our physical death penalty debt in full. Today, we read in the New Testament, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23 nasb). The wages of sin today is still death: physical and spiritual death. But, Jesus Christ paid your physical death penalty. To have your spiritual death penalty overturned; all you have to do is, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- sincerely invite Jesus Christ to come into your heart and into your life and be your personal Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20). If you do this, you WILL have eternal life with God.

So, Punkin, is the Old Testament valid today? One of the strongest proofs that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God is prophecy. Of the over 1800 prophecies in the Bible, by far the largest portion of them is found in the Old Testament. Prophecies of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, begin in Genesis and run throughout the Old Testament all the way to Malachi -- over 300 prophecies of the Messiah. Then we have all the End Time prophecies. If we discard the Old Testament and teach only from the New Testament; we must throw away the richness of God's prophecies to us. If we discard the Old Testament, we must throw away all the great stories of history, all the beautiful poetry and songs found in Psalms, all the wisdom found in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. Can you imagine discarding all these treasures?

Punkin, praise God, He gave us the entire Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament as His full revelation to man. We believe that it is the Written Word of God; is a supernaturally given revelation from God Himself; and reveals to all believers the nature, character, will, and purposes of God; that it is the complete revelation of His will for the salvation of mankind, and is the final authority for all matters pertaining to our Christian lives.

Would you really want to discard ANY of this amazing book?


Punkin, does this answer your question about the validity of the Old Testament in our church today? If not, let's discuss if further.

Yes, Jesus Christ came to bring us a New Covenant; but, He did it by fulfilling the Law and the prophets. The Law could not save anyone. It was intended to shine the light upon the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. No, we cannot discard the Old Testaments; the Ten Commandments is just as valid today as it was then. God gave Moses the Ten Commandments and the Law; then man, the Pharisees and Sadducees, began to add their own additions and rules to God's Law -- until they had it totally burdened with man-made laws.

We have seen the same with our Constitution. The founding fathers gave us a clean Constitution and added the Bill of Rights, ten amendments -- still clean and workable. But, the Constitutional laws we have today are so burdened by all the Supreme Court (our Pharisees) rulings that it is hard to find the original ideas. But, we do not discard the Constitution; nor should we discard the Old Testament.

Jesus came to bring a New Covenant, not to discard the Old Testament teachings. He came to shake off all the dead branches of law which the Pharisees had crammed into the Law. An example is Mark 2:27-28, "Jesus said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath'"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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