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Hi Lady,

First, thank you, Thomas Wayne, for your vote of confidence.

Lady, you will not find anywhere in the Bible that the Sabbath has been changed -- for it has not.

We Christians still recognize the Sabbath; but Christians worship on the first day of the week because we are celebrating the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. He rose from the grave on the first day of the week and our salvation is based upon His death and resurrection. So, that is what we celebrate.

However, we worship God every day -- 24/7/365.

I pray that helps.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Barefootlady:
Thank you, Bill Smiler

That helps very much so. In all my young years I've never really had it explained so simply. Maybe I never questioned it before because it's just something I've always done. Then again, we have elders that say we meet on Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday evening - so I am there. I enjoy the fellowship and studying and praising God with my Christian family, as well as strive to worship and glorify God every day.

I am not sure that I have studied this enough to fully understand what Sabbath means and that's why I'm here on this board. In my upbringing in the church, I don't recall being thoroughly taught about what the Sabbath means to Christians today.

But now that I'm studying a little more, since my initial post about this, I'm realizing that Jesus has fulfilled the law of the Sabbath, and under His New Covenant Jesus Christ is the Sabbath rest for Christians. Our ultimate Sabbath rest will be enjoyed in heaven and we recognize our rest in Christ through faith and daily worship. So Sabbath is not about Saturday or Sunday, it's about everyday finding rest through Christ in our hope of heaven.

I think I'm on to something here. Smiler

Hi Lady,

I could not have said it better! Welcome to the Religion Forum; we always are happy to have another Christian believer's voice being shared for the edification of all our Forum Friends.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai.


Does it really matter which day of the week is the Sabbath? Really?

And at least one of your sources isn't very bright. He says, "This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai."

While the Sabbath most certainly existed this isn't proof any more than saying, "remember to pick up your room", or "remember to wash your hands", or "remember you have a doctor appointment tomorrow" proves that you have done any of these things previously.
Something as big as the Sabbath was would have a little real estate in the NT had it been changed. It wasn't changed. That being said, no it doesn't matter. The fact that most places meet on Sunday is a result of 1. a few passages that talk about customs and a particular day that was mentioned (and any day would have substituted just fine), and 2. the Catholic church changed it when it was a state religion and did so in order to make it illegal to worship the gods that required Sunday worship.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai.

Does it really matter which day of the week is the Sabbath? Really?

And at least one of your sources isn't very bright. He says, "This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai."

While the Sabbath most certainly existed this isn't proof any more than saying, "remember to pick up your room", or "remember to wash your hands", or "remember you have a doctor appointment tomorrow" proves that you have done any of these things previously.

Hi Crusty,

You ask if it matters which day is recognized as the Sabbath. Yes, it does, for God is the One who designated the seventh day as the Sabbath.

The "not very bright" fellow you mentioned who Lady quoted is Dwight L. Moody, one of the greatest evangelist America, or the world, has known. I would say he is pretty smart; especially when it comes to the Word of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, Bill, Bill, you of all people should know not to encourage people to add blind validity to statements simply because they were made by one "evangelist" or another. Just because Moody says something doesn't mean it's right. I'm not saying that Moody's is right or wrong, just saying that when someone is struggling with an issue, it's not a good practice to just go find out what Pastor XYZ said.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowan Oak:
Bill, Bill, Bill, you of all people should know not to encourage people to add blind validity to statements simply because they were made by one "evangelist" or another. Just because Moody says something doesn't mean it's right. I'm not saying that Moody's is right or wrong, just saying that when someone is struggling with an issue, it's not a good practice to just go find out what Pastor XYZ said.

Hi Rowan,

First, welcome back. I haven't seen you around the Religion Forum in quite a while.

In my response to Crusty, I was not agreeing nor disagreeing with Moody. I was only pointing out that the The "not very bright" fellow whom Crusty was speaking of was Moody.

And, I will say that Moody had a fair grasp of God's Word. On the other hand, as you suggest, we cannot say that anyone is 100% right in all their evangelistic, sermons, or theological writings or statements.

I have often said that I have yet to find any pastor, evangelist, theologian, etc., with whom I agree 100% of the time. I read and listen to what they say or write -- and test that against Scripture.

More than once, I have approached a pastor/teacher privately to question what he had taught. Sometimes they convince me; other times, we just have to agree to disagree.

Again, welcome back.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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hi barefoot lady I also am a longtime member of the Church of Christ and there is no such thing as the Sabbath day, when christ gave us the new law he took the old out of the way nailing it to the cross colossians 2:14, when christ died on the cross the old law was finished and it doesn't apply to us, we live under the new Testament and acts 20 and 7 and upon the first day of the week when the desciples came together to break bread, paul preached unto them ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech till midnight. when it talks about Giving it says in 1st corinthians 16:2 upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him. so they came on the first day of the week to lay by in store as they had prospered, why not break the bread while they were there, no sabbath in the new Law

some of the jews wanted to keep the law of Circumcision but Galatians 5:3 for I testify again to every man that is Circumcised, that he is debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ has become of no affect to you whosever of you that are justified by the law, ye are fallen from Grace.

If you want to practice part of the old law you must keep it all, so where do the 7th Day adventists stand?and the rest of the churches who meet on Saturday?

let me explain it just a little more simpler for some who will say what has Circumcision got to do with it? Circumcision was part of the old law just like the Sabbath day was a part of the old law and galatians says if you want to hold on to part of the old law then you will have to practice it all, such as animal sacrifices, not being able to travel but a little distance and no cooking or work of anykind. Christian Sabbath? never mentioned in the Bible so we come together on the first day of the week like the new testament teaches.

you know what is peoples biggest problem with the Bible? they will right away say, "well I think" what you think don't matter it is what the Book says, read it and then you will know what it says.
Last edited by prince albert
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai.

Does it really matter which day of the week is the Sabbath? Really?

And at least one of your sources isn't very bright. He says, "This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai."

While the Sabbath most certainly existed this isn't proof any more than saying, "remember to pick up your room", or "remember to wash your hands", or "remember you have a doctor appointment tomorrow" proves that you have done any of these things previously.

Hi Crusty,

You ask if it matters which day is recognized as the Sabbath. Yes, it does, for God is the One who designated the seventh day as the Sabbath.

The "not very bright" fellow you mentioned who Lady quoted is Dwight L. Moody, one of the greatest evangelist America, or the world, has known. I would say he is pretty smart; especially when it comes to the Word of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Really, Bill? It makes a difference? Not really. And your buddy Moody there is a charlatan and as I pointed out, not terribly bright; unless of course you consider misinterpretation of the Bible to make your sermon mean something as being bright.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Barefootlady:
This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai.

Does it really matter which day of the week is the Sabbath? Really? And at least one of your sources isn't very bright. He says, "This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai."

While the Sabbath most certainly existed this isn't proof any more than saying, "remember to pick up your room", or "remember to wash your hands", or "remember you have a doctor appointment tomorrow" proves that you have done any of these things previously.

Hi Crusty,

You ask if it matters which day is recognized as the Sabbath. Yes, it does, for God is the One who designated the seventh day as the Sabbath. The "not very bright" fellow you mentioned who Lady quoted is Dwight L. Moody, one of the greatest evangelist America, or the world, has known. I would say he is pretty smart; especially when it comes to the Word of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill

Really, Bill? It makes a difference? Not really. And your buddy Moody there is a charlatan and as I pointed out, not terribly bright; unless of course you consider misinterpretation of the Bible to make your sermon mean something as being bright.

Hi Crusty,

Please tell us more about Dwight L. Moody and how he misused the Bible. I am sincerely interested in what you know about this. Or was it just a convenient thing to throw out -- hoping no one would call your bluff?

And, let me give you an idea of how God works through people such as Dwight L. Moody -- and all other Christian believers who will follow Him obediently. You might call this a Divine Chain Of Events.

In the late 1860s Sarah Dunn, decorating her family home in Waterloo, Iowa, felt a call from the Lord. It seemed that she heard an audible voice asking, "What are you doing to decorate your heavenly home?" Thoughts of perishing souls marching to an eternity without Christ flooded Sarah's mind. Later, she moved to Chicago, and in 1873 met and married Colonel George Clarke, a real estate business man.

Colonel George Clarke and his wife, Sarah, opened a Mission Sunday School in Chicago, Not long after, Dwight L. Moody, the great evangelist of the 1800s, freshly back from an evangelistic crusade in England, suggested they change the name to Pacific Garden Mission, which is the name to this day. In the late 1800s, Billy Sunday, a hard drinking worldly professional baseball player heard their music, went to the Mission, and not long afterwards was saved. He later became a powerful evangelist.

In 1923, Billy Sunday held a Revival Meeting in Charlotte, North Carolina. Shortly after the Revival Meeting, a group of Charlotte, North Carolina, businessmen, all of whom had come to the Lord at Billy Sunday's meeting, formed a group called the Billy Sunday Laymen's Evangelistic Club, later to be renamed the Charlotte Business Men's Committee which is still active today.

In 1934, the depression was on and many people had little faith to carry them through the hard times. That Charlotted Christian Men's Club, most of whom were saved at the Billy Sunday meeting in 1923, held an all-day prayer meeting to discuss inviting Dr. Mordecai Ham to Charlotte for a Revival Meeting (they were not yet called Crusades).

The Mordecai Ham Revival Meeting lasted eleven weeks and two of the converts of this evangelistic outreach were Grady Wilson and Billy Graham, who at the time were both teenagers in Charlotte,

And, the team of Billy Graham and his good friend, Grady Wilson -- have most certainly made a difference in our world -- an eternal difference for millions of people.

Crusty, what have YOU done to help another wanderer find eternal security in Jesus Christ?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:


Crusty, what have YOU done to help another wanderer find eternal security in Jesus Christ?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Bill, I try to walk the walk. What I haven't done is started charlatan ministries that suck hundreds of millions of dollars out of people's pockets on the promise that by giving til it hurts will get them to heaven.

And while your good buddy Moody was correct in saying there was a Sabbath before the 10 commandments, his "proof" is typical of biblical con-artists the world around.

If you are so hung up on the Sabbath being on the seventh day, you need to be in church on Saturday.
Hi Crusty,

Once again, I will ask even though I know you still will not answer:

Please tell us more about Dwight L. Moody and how he misused the Bible. I am sincerely interested in what you know about this. Or was it just a convenient thing to throw out -- hoping no one would call your bluff?

So, Crusty -- no more huffing and puffing -- just a straight answer will suffice.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I remember reading about Billy Sunday, it was funny things like his daughter had a new beau and she introduced him to her dad and later he told her no not that one, his eyes are too close together, too much Wolf in that one.

and the milkmen would put water in the milk to make it go farther and the song leader was up singing and he says, now we are going to sing the Milk Mans Song, "shall we gather at the River"
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:
I remember reading about Billy Sunday, it was funny things like his daughter had a new beau and she introduced him to her dad and later he told her no not that one, his eyes are too close together, too much Wolf in that one.

and the milkmen would put water in the milk to make it go farther and the song leader was up singing and he says, now we are going to sing the Milk Mans Song, "shall we gather at the River"

Hi Albert,

Even if those things were true and not just stories that someone made up to attack him; would this make Billy Sunday less of a Christian evangelist?

Before becoming a Christian; he was a heavy drinker and womanizer -- yet, when he became a child of God; those things were erased by the blood of Christ.

And, we have seen that some of the fruit of his evangelism was Billy Graham. Now one might respond, "But, God could have saved Bllly Graham through many other people."

That is true. However, God chose to use Mordecai Ham, whose revival meeting in Charlotte was a direct result of the earlier Billy Sunday revival meeting.

God can use us even if we do have funny or odd quirks in our personality.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I can very much understand anyones confusion about "The Sabbath" and the way some New Testament Christian Churches apply it. I have no problem with someone saying that Sunday is the Christian's sabbath or the day that they choose to worship but the problem that I have is when they (the Church or Minister or teacher) takes Old Testament commands and provisions regarding the Sabbath, as given to the Jewish people ( the Israelites ... as in Exodus 31:12-17) and tie and bind New Testament Christians making them feel that they are sinning if they work on Sunday or do anything other than go to church. Many take old Testament laws and try and bind New Testament Christians to them. In the case of the Sabbath it was given unto the Israelites as a covenant between God and them however many, today, will confuse Christians by making them believe that Sunday is the Sabbath and applying laws governing the Sabbath, with regard to the Jews, and making the Modern day Christian obliged to obey them.

I've heard many a preacher preach that it was a sin to work on Sunday and lambast Christians that work at their job or principal employment in order to make a living. What hyprocracy that is. The Preacher is WORKING on Sunday, the preacher is making a living preaching and if he doesn't preach on Sunday's then he won't be around too long in that capacity. That happens in many other areas also. People hold others and place yoke of bondage around others when they themselves do that which they condemn.

As has been said ... Saturday is the Sabbath and will always be.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty,

Once again, I will ask even though I know you still will not answer:

Please tell us more about Dwight L. Moody and how he misused the Bible. I am sincerely interested in what you know about this. Or was it just a convenient thing to throw out -- hoping no one would call your bluff?

So, Crusty -- no more huffing and puffing -- just a straight answer will suffice.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I've already done it, Bill. I know reading comprehension isn't your strong point, but it is there in the above posts.
quote:
Originally posted by gbrk:
I can very much understand anyones confusion about "The Sabbath" and the way some New Testament Christian Churches apply it. I have no problem with someone saying that Sunday is the Christian's sabbath or the day that they choose to worship but the problem that I have is when they (the Church or Minister or teacher) takes Old Testament commands and provisions regarding the Sabbath, as given to the Jewish people ( the Israelites ... as in Exodus 31:12-17) and tie and bind New Testament Christians making them feel that they are sinning if they work on Sunday or do anything other than go to church. Many take old Testament laws and try and bind New Testament Christians to them. In the case of the Sabbath it was given unto the Israelites as a covenant between God and them however many, today, will confuse Christians by making them believe that Sunday is the Sabbath and applying laws governing the Sabbath, with regard to the Jews, and making the Modern day Christian obliged to obey them.

I've heard many a preacher preach that it was a sin to work on Sunday and lambast Christians that work at their job or principal employment in order to make a living. What hyprocracy that is. The Preacher is WORKING on Sunday, the preacher is making a living preaching and if he doesn't preach on Sunday's then he won't be around too long in that capacity. That happens in many other areas also. People hold others and place yoke of bondage around others when they themselves do that which they condemn.

As has been said ... Saturday is the Sabbath and will always be.


And yet, the Bible isn't contradictory or confusing, easily understood by everyone - because God wouldn't want to confuse anyone - and is a shining example of clarity. If the OT doesn't apply anymore, why is it included?
Sorry if my post was not quite clear but in no way do I want to infer or say that the Old Testament is not valid and binding today just as it was then. The Covenant, of the Sabbath is still in effect and binding with Israel, the Jews, but not with Gentile Christians yet many Gentile Christians want to bind other Christians with the laws intended for the Jews and intended for Saturday and the Exodus Covenant between God and Israel and then apply those same rules and regulations to Sunday and modern day Christians with reference to working on Sunday. That is just wrong and non-scriptural.

Concerning the ability to understand the Scriptures. I'm well aware that many say that you cannot understand the Bible, you can't understand Revelation or that other areas of the Bible are not valid. I don't subscribe to this line of thought or reason.

My beliefs, about Scripture, regardless of the version of the Bible you choose to use, that it is God's Holy Spirit that is given to each Christian that God ENABLES the Christian to understand His (God's) word and information for each Christian. It is my belief that God uses His Scriptures, the whole Bible, to impart to each Christian meaning and understanding. God's Holy Spirit, inside each Christian, has one ministry in that God's Holy Spirit enables Christians to understand the Scriptures and what God wants to say to each Christian. Those who are not saved, who are not Christian, who do not have God's Holy Spirit as a witness and guarantee of their salvation then find the Bible a very confusing and meaningless book as it has no meaning to them. They might find some historical meaning or find some poetic significance or moral value in the content but it is not the "Power of God" and without God's Holy Spirit God doesn't speak to them through it's (The Bibles) Words.

That isn't to say that the Unsaved cannot find meaning or that the Bible cannot be of help to them for God's Holy Spirit also serves to Convict Man/Woman of their sins and their needs and can use God's Word to do this also.

That's my personal belief about the Scriptures of God, regardless of the version you choose to use.

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