Skip to main content

Just me, but how do you stop believing in something or someone that is

unbelievable and/or doesn't exist anyway. Which takes me to the question,

why go through this unnecessary motion in the first place..? I can't see all

Atheists will participate. Here's the story.

 

The National Secular Society offers certificates to atheists who want to revoke their baptism.  It estimates that 100,000 people have downloaded such documents from their website over the past five years.

 

Unbaptism.org offers a similar service.  Their certificate reads: "[Name] having at one time willingly submitted to the Rite of Christian Baptism and subsequently having realized my beliefs were in error, hereby publicly revoke any and all implications of that Rite and renounce the Church that carried it out.  In the name of human reason, I reject all that Church's Creeds and all other such Superstitions.  I wish to be excluded henceforth from claims of church membership numbers based on past baptismal statistics."

 

Last month, an atheist group calling itself Sunday Assembly launched new services in 35 cities across the world.  Started in 2013 by two British comedians, it already holds meetings in 11 U.S. cities and is launching new services in 16 others.  The leader of one such service outside Cleveland, Ohio told an interviewer that he had recently been "debaptized" and has the certificate to prove it.

 

Two questions follow.  One: can a person genuinely become a Christian and then choose to become an atheist?  The man in Cleveland said he had been "saved twice" but that it "obviously didn't take."  What would Scripture say to him?

 

John told his readers, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).  Note the present tense: you "have" eternal life.  If you have genuinely asked Jesus to forgive your sins and become your Lord, in that moment you became the child of God.  Paul adds: "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.  The old has passed away; behold, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17).  Note the tense: a Christian "is" a new creation.

 

My sons cannot "unbecome" my sons.  They cannot reverse their birth and biology.  In the same way, those who are "born again" as God's children will always be his children (John 3:3).  Those who claim they were Christians but now reject Christ and claim atheism were never genuinely converted.  They have been deceived twice.

 

Two: why is atheism becoming more prominent?  In many ways, this phenomenon is part of a larger trend away from all authorities and institutions.  Only 34 percent of Americans trust the medical system; 30 percent trust the Supreme Court; 29 percent trust the presidency; 18 percent trust television news; seven percent trust Congress.  We live in a day when our opinion is our authority.  A person can state "I don't believe in God" as though his rejection affects God's reality.  Imagine saying "I don't believe in England" and assuming that settles the question, despite all who claim to have been there.

 

How should Christians respond?  One way is to be "rebaptized" every day—not physically, but spiritually.  Every person I baptized as a pastor made the public statement, "Jesus is my Lord."  Have you made him your Lord today?  Will a skeptical culture see the difference he makes in your life?

 

http://www.christianheadlines....-are-unbaptized.html

 

 

  

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Two questions follow.  One: can a person genuinely become a Christian and then choose to become an atheist?

A person absolutely can be a Christian and BECOME an atheist, but it is NOT by choice.

Those who claim they were Christians but now reject Christ and claim atheism were never genuinely converted. 

An atheist does not reject christ. Again, they lose the belief.

 A person can state "I don't believe in God" as though his rejection affects God's reality.  Imagine saying "I don't believe in England" and assuming that settles the question, despite all who claim to have been there.

Again, it is not rejection. It is a non belief. Saying I don't believe in a god does settle the question for me. It's others that have a problem with it. And the statement/comparison/whatever about/to England makes no sense.

Hi Vic,

 

I agree with the pastor who wrote your article.   The pastor poses two questions:

 

Two questions follow.  One: can a person genuinely become a Christian and then choose to become an atheist?

 

And, the answer is a resounding NO!

 

A person who has truly been saved may become a lazy Christian -- but, he/she is still a Christian.

 

At the moment of salvation, i.e., justification -- that person is indwelled, sealed, and kept sealed until the day of death or rapture (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).   That means that the Holy Spirit has taken up residence within that person.

 

Since the Holy Spirit is God, and God is omniscient (all knowing), omnipresent (all places present), and omnipotent (all powerful) -- there is no force on earth or in the heavens which can evict the Holy Spirit once He has become resident.

 

That is confirmed in John 10:28-29 -- NO ONE can snatch them (believers) out of My hands!   NO ONE means, well, it means NO ONE, not even the person himself/herself.

 

And, I agree with the pastor's second question:

 

Two: why is atheism becoming more prominent?  In many ways, this phenomenon is part of a larger trend away from all authorities and institutions.  

 

I agree with him, although I would be a wee bit more specific.   That person who claims to be an atheist builds his/her religion upon their stated belief that God does not exist.   But, in my sincere opinion -- I do not believe them, i.e., I do not believe that they sincerely believe that God does not exist.

 

If they would be truly honest, at least with themselves -- I believe they would find that they just do not want God to exist.  For, if they admit that God does exist -- regardless of whether they are believers or not -- they are still accountable to God.   By declaring (even though they do not really believe it) that God does not exist -- this fosters the false believe that they are accountable only to themselves.

 

Once again, I will use my often used analogy.  God is like that 18-wheeler coming toward you on the interstate.  No matter how loudly, or how often, you proclaim, "What truck?" -- it will get you!   Better to be on the truck riding -- than to be under the wheels!

 

Atheism is a religion of "I don't want Him to be real!"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Be Still - Know I Am God - 1

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Be Still - Know I Am God - 1
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Two questions follow.  One: can a person genuinely become a Christian and then choose to become an atheist?

A person absolutely can be a Christian and BECOME an atheist, but it is NOT by choice.

If you didn't chose is real & thinking that the Bible is nothing more than a made up story book.

______

But if you didn't chose to become an Atheist, how did it come about?

My doubts that Jesus was real & believing that the Bible is nothing more than a story book, is my choice.

You know me well enough to know that my question/post is sincere & is no way meant to make fun.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

The National Secular Society offers certificates to atheists who want to revoke their baptism.   

Two: why is atheism becoming more prominent?   

_____

I don't know why a certificate would be important. It's only a piece of paper, not something that actually saves you.

As far as Atheism becoming more prominent, I think people is beginning to study/research more than they used to. We see people like Bill Gray that wear the Christian hat but we know by their fruit they are not a Christian. Those that talk the talk but their walk shows the true person. Prayers not being answered. There is no way a person can live the way the Bible teaches...it's impossible. 

Most of all, coming to realize that Jesus & the Bible is not real, just a book of stories made up to give gullible people something to believe in. Very sad!!

But if you didn't chose to become an Atheist, how did it come about?

------------------------------------------------------

The belief left. Not only did I not choose to stop believing, but at the time it was the last thing I wanted to happen, and so I fought it for years. No one did anything bad to me, no one talked me out of my belief, they couldn't have anyway, I wouldn't have stood for them trying that, the belief just left. I only had a vague idea of what an atheist was when I first started having doubts, I think I thought it was someone that had never believed, had been raised not to believe, and I never thought for one minute that it would one day be me. It's a long story, but believe me, anyone that says they were believers but chose/decided to become an atheist is lying to you and/or themselves. The so called christians that claim you can just stop believing are full of it, know they're full of it, and I think some are scared it will happen to them and they have no idea what they'll do if it does. So the claim that atheists just choose to stop believing for whatever reason is pure bull based on their fear/ignorance/or downright dishonesty. Some must think it can be lost or else they wouldn't be so concerned with, and scared of, atheists. Maybe some of them think they can 'catch it'.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

anyone that says they were believers but chose/decided to become an atheist is lying to you and/or themselves.

____

But you just described me & I'm not lying, to myself or anyone. I may not be a full fledged Atheist yet but I'm close. The more I see/hear from "Christians", more I read on here, the closer I become.

You have to read/research/watch/listen, & when you start disbelieving anything "Christian", you are making a choice to believe as an Atheist. You either believe or you don't.

Guess you can tell I'm confused by your statement. We can continue this in a PM if you prefer.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

anyone that says they were believers but chose/decided to become an atheist is lying to you and/or themselves.

____

But you just described me & I'm not lying, to myself or anyone. I may not be a full fledged Atheist yet but I'm close. The more I see/hear from "Christians", more I read on here, the closer I become.

You have to read/research/watch/listen, & when you start disbelieving anything "Christian", you are making a choice to believe as an Atheist. You either believe or you don't.

Guess you can tell I'm confused by your statement. We can continue this in a PM if you prefer.

semi, maybe what Best is saying is, a choice is the difference between a

Coke or Dr. Pepper. When a truism hits, for example, when I was seventeen

my younger sister told me Santa Clause didn't actually exist, he wasn't real.

I didn't choose that it just fell on me like a four hundred pound brown skin

filipino woman. You can imagine how pizzed I would be at either one of those

happening. My disbelief in Santa wasn't a choice, it just became a reality.

My opinion of why you're confused about choice is you aren't convinced

either way yet and no one at this point can help you until a deciding factor

from you puts this to rest.

 

 

Last edited by INVICTUS
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

anyone that says they were believers but chose/decided to become an atheist is lying to you and/or themselves.

____

But you just described me & I'm not lying, to myself or anyone. I may not be a full fledged Atheist yet but I'm close. The more I see/hear from "Christians", more I read on here, the closer I become.

You have to read/research/watch/listen, & when you start disbelieving anything "Christian", you are making a choice to believe as an Atheist. You either believe or you don't.

Guess you can tell I'm confused by your statement. We can continue this in a PM if you prefer.

Still hoping you find the way Semi.  do not let the bad sway you from great many good Christians out there.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
My opinion of why you're confused about choice is you aren't convinced either way yet and no one at this point can help you until a deciding factor from you puts this to rest.

_________

But I'm not confused about my choice. I have made the choice to believe more in Atheism than Religion because Atheism makes more sense. Help me out here........what deciding factor?

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
My opinion of why you're confused about choice is you aren't convinced either way yet and no one at this point can help you until a deciding factor from you puts this to rest.

_________

But I'm not confused about my choice. I have made the choice to believe more in Atheism than Religion because Atheism makes more sense. Help me out here........what deciding factor?

It's not a matter of believing more of one side than the other. It's when you

commit to believe in one and not at all of the other. Otherwise, your agnostic.

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:
 

Still hoping you find the way Semi.  do not let the bad sway you from great many good Christians out there.

_______

Thank you! Yes, there is many good people but as far as good Christians? I don't know because I don't trust any of them. I don't know any that their walk matches their talk.

We are all sinners, all fall short of the give Jesus gave us.  I am imperfect but I am trying.

quote:   Originally Posted by Contendah:

Next on the National Secular Society's agenda:  an arrangement for revoking the circumcision of Jews who wish to renounce their faith.

 

Renunciation of baptism might not work.  Some sneaky Mormon just might come across your name and get himself baptized for you--and you might never know it!  

Contendah, my Friend,

 

Would that mean having to sew the piece of skin back on?  Now that would be a painful decision!   Just a thought.  (I tried to write "fore-skin" -- but the word censor would not let me.  Isn't that going a wee bit overboard?)

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

My Happy Face

Attachments

Images (1)
  • My Happy Face
Last edited by Bill Gray

My opinion of why you're confused about choice is you aren't convinced

either way yet and no one at this point can help you until a deciding factor

from you puts this to rest.

 

Pretty much what he posted. Don't try to make a choice. Like I posted, it takes a long time before you know for sure, and if you are going to lose the belief there will be no choice involved, it will leave no matter what you do or say, or what anyone else does or says.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by Contendah:

Next on the National Secular Society's agenda:  an arrangement for revoking the circumcision of Jews who wish to renounce their faith.

 

Renunciation of baptism might not work.  Some sneaky Mormon just might come across your name and get himself baptized for you--and you might never know it!  

Contendah, my Friend,

 

Would that mean having to sew the piece of skin back on?  Now that would be a painful decision!   Just a thought.  (I tried to write "fore-skin" -- but the word censor would not let me.  Isn't that going a wee bit overboard?)

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

My Happy Face

___

 Bill, you and Best need to have your sarcasm detectors re-activated.

Last edited by Contendah
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

I agree with the pastor who wrote your article.   The pastor poses two questions:

 

Two questions follow.  One: can a person genuinely become a Christian and then choose to become an atheist?

 

And, the answer is a resounding NO!

 

A person who has truly been saved may become a lazy Christian -- but, he/she is still a Christian.

 

At the moment of salvation, i.e., justification -- that person is indwelled, sealed, and kept sealed until the day of death or rapture (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).   That means that the Holy Spirit has taken up residence within that person.

 

Since the Holy Spirit is God, and God is omniscient (all knowing), omnipresent (all places present), and omnipotent (all powerful) -- there is no force on earth or in the heavens which can evict the Holy Spirit once He has become resident.

 

That is confirmed in John 10:28-29 -- NO ONE can snatch them (believers) out of My hands!   NO ONE means, well, it means NO ONE, not even the person himself/herself.

 

And, I agree with the pastor's second question:

 

Two: why is atheism becoming more prominent?  In many ways, this phenomenon is part of a larger trend away from all authorities and institutions.  

 

I agree with him, although I would be a wee bit more specific.   That person who claims to be an atheist builds his/her religion upon their stated belief that God does not exist.   But, in my sincere opinion -- I do not believe them, i.e., I do not believe that they sincerely believe that God does not exist.

 

If they would be truly honest, at least with themselves -- I believe they would find that they just do not want God to exist.  For, if they admit that God does exist -- regardless of whether they are believers or not -- they are still accountable to God.   By declaring (even though they do not really believe it) that God does not exist -- this fosters the false believe that they are accountable only to themselves.

 

Once again, I will use my often used analogy.  God is like that 18-wheeler coming toward you on the interstate.  No matter how loudly, or how often, you proclaim, "What truck?" -- it will get you!   Better to be on the truck riding -- than to be under the wheels!

 

Atheism is a religion of "I don't want Him to be real!"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_______________

 

More OSASininity from Bill Gray.  Whatja 'spect?

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

I agree with the pastor who wrote your article.   The pastor poses two questions:

 

Two questions follow.  One: can a person genuinely become a Christian and then choose to become an atheist?

 

And, the answer is a resounding NO!

 

A person who has truly been saved may become a lazy Christian -- but, he/she is still a Christian.

 

At the moment of salvation, i.e., justification -- that person is indwelled, sealed, and kept sealed until the day of death or rapture (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).   That means that the Holy Spirit has taken up residence within that person.

 

Since the Holy Spirit is God, and God is omniscient (all knowing), omnipresent (all places present), and omnipotent (all powerful) -- there is no force on earth or in the heavens which can evict the Holy Spirit once He has become resident.

 

That is confirmed in John 10:28-29 -- NO ONE can snatch them (believers) out of My hands!   NO ONE means, well, it means NO ONE, not even the person himself/herself.

 

And, I agree with the pastor's second question:

 

Two: why is atheism becoming more prominent?  In many ways, this phenomenon is part of a larger trend away from all authorities and institutions.  

 

I agree with him, although I would be a wee bit more specific.   That person who claims to be an atheist builds his/her religion upon their stated belief that God does not exist.   But, in my sincere opinion -- I do not believe them, i.e., I do not believe that they sincerely believe that God does not exist.

 

If they would be truly honest, at least with themselves -- I believe they would find that they just do not want God to exist.  For, if they admit that God does exist -- regardless of whether they are believers or not -- they are still accountable to God.   By declaring (even though they do not really believe it) that God does not exist -- this fosters the false believe that they are accountable only to themselves.

 

Once again, I will use my often used analogy.  God is like that 18-wheeler coming toward you on the interstate.  No matter how loudly, or how often, you proclaim, "What truck?" -- it will get you!   Better to be on the truck riding -- than to be under the wheels!

 

Atheism is a religion of "I don't want Him to be real!"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 _________________________________________________________________

 

It has been over a month, now, Bill, since I placed the challenge, below, to your Once Saved--Always Saved  doctrine.  You have simply ignored it, which tells me that you simply can not put up a credible defense against what I have posted. Here it is again for your convenience:

 

<<<Ah, Bill, you are so transparently evasive. You quoted, AND THEN TOTALLY IGNORED   that part of the Hebrews 6 passage that affirms that the persons described there had ""become partakers of the Holy Ghost." And you utterly failed  to answer the question that I repeatedly posed to you, namely:

 

The believers in Hebrews 6:1-9 [believers who were believers indeed, having become "partakers of the Holy Spirit" (V. 4)] became apostates who were deemed to have "crucified the Son of God afresh" (v. 5).  Were those apostate former believers saved, Bill?

 

You boogied over to another passage, Ephesians 1:13:

 

"In Him, you also, after listening (hearing)to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

 

You contend  that this passage somehow trumps the Hebrews 6 passage because the Ephesian passage specifically mentions that the subject persons "believed and were sealed with the Holy Spirit." 

 

But tell us, Bill, what is the difference between "being sealed with the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13) and "having partaken of the Holy Ghost" (Hebrews 6:4).  More particularly, what is the difference between the two passages that assures you that the Ephesian were believers indeed but those persons described in Hebrews  6:4 had never been true believers?

 

Both had received the Holy Spirit, Bill. Are you telling me that there was something in the manner in which the persons in Hebrews 6 had received the Holy Spirit that left them short of having believed as they should have?

 

It is axiomatic that the persons described in Hebrews 6:4 were once Christian believers, but had apostatized.  Among other things, it is evident that they had at some former time repented, since it would make no sense to say that "it is impossible to restore [them] again to repentance" unless they had repented at an earlier time.   Moreover, they had been"enlightened."  Thayer, the eminent Greek lexicographer (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,1963 Edition, page  663), says that the Greek word here used is in reference to "those who had been made Christians."  He cites Hebrews 10:32 ("But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened you endured a hard struggle with sufferings....") as having identical meaning and there can be no doubt but that in that passage it is Christians who are being addressed and described.

 

So there you have it, Bill Gray.  You have placed yourself in the untenable position of declaring that the persons described in Hebrews 6:4, although they had  repented, and been "enlightened" and had "become partakers of the Holy Spirit" nevertheless had somehow never "believed" and thus never were true Christians.

 

To contend that the formerly penitent, formerly enlightened persons there described were never believers is a zany exercise in Calvinistic eisegesis,  Bill, and you should be ashamed of buying into such a distorted interpretation. Such hermeneutical misadventures, alas, are the inevitable refuge of those who seek to defend the indefensible Calvinistic doctrine of perseverance!>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contendah, my Friend,

 

Just look up a wee bit and you will find this posted:

 

Let me offer you a wee challenge.   SHOW ME anything in my post which you copied that is Biblically wrong.  

 

Or, do you just like to blow smoke?

 

Bless your smoky little heart!

 

Obviously you were, and are, just blowing smoke -- by posting something other than an answer to that simple question.  

 

Of course, you and I both know that YOU CANNOT find anything Biblically wrong in my post above.  So, you start blowing smoke from the other end!   Whatever!

 

Bless your little side-stepping heart!

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

Just look up a wee bit and you will find this posted:

 

Let me offer you a wee challenge.   SHOW ME anything in my post which you copied that is Biblically wrong.  

 

Or, do you just like to blow smoke?

 

Bless your smoky little heart!

 

Obviously you were, and are, just blowing smoke -- by posting something other than an answer to that simple question.  

 

Of course, you and I both know that YOU CANNOT find anything Biblically wrong in my post above.  So, you start blowing smoke from the other end!   Whatever!

 

Bless your little side-stepping heart!

 

Bill

____

As in former exchanges on your OSASininity, I would have no problem showing you the error of your ways, Bill.  But it is YOU who refuse to even acknowledge, let alone respond to the challenge I repeated above and have repeated several times, with zero response from you.  Your latest post is simply another ploy to evade responding to THAT challenge.  

 

Here is a condensed version for you:

 

<<<<It is axiomatic that the persons described in Hebrews 6:4 were once Christian believers, but had apostatized.  Among other things, it is evident that they had at some former time repented, since it would make no sense to say that "it is impossible to restore [them] again to repentance" unless they had repented at an earlier time.   Moreover, they had been"enlightened."  Thayer, the eminent Greek lexicographer (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,1963 Edition, page  663), says that the Greek word here used is in reference to "those who had been made Christians."  He cites Hebrews 10:32 ("But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened you endured a hard struggle with sufferings....") as having identical meaning and there can be no doubt but that in that passage it is Christians who are being addressed and described.

 

So there you have it, Bill Gray.  You have placed yourself in the untenable position of declaring that the persons described in Hebrews 6:4, although they had  repented, and been "enlightened" and had "become partakers of the Holy Spirit" nevertheless had somehow never "believed" and thus never were true Christians.

 

To contend that the formerly penitent, formerly enlightened persons there described were never believers is a zany exercise in Calvinistic eisegesis,  Bill, and you should be ashamed of buying into such a distorted interpretation. Such hermeneutical misadventures, alas, are the inevitable refuge of those who seek to defend the indefensible Calvinistic doctrine of perseverance!>>>>

 

Stand and deliver, Bill.  Each time you dodge this challenge makes you look ever more impotent to defend your OSASininity.

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

According to billiee jee and the atheist religion he's invented just made me

realize that I myself, does not believe in "big foot". So with that thought

process I would be labeled an Atheist.

____

Only if bigfoot were God.

 

Have you heard about the dyslexic atheist who went around boldly proclaiming that, "There is no dog."?

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×