A case against Sola Scriptura: FOR BILL GRAY

Hi VP,

 

All you have done, as usual, is to copy/paste a bunch of Scripture verses -- and declare, "I believe it!" -- without giving one singe iota of explanation regarding what those verses mean or what you believe them to mean.

 

VP, nothing personal, but a trained puppy could copy/paste verses.  It takes a wee bit more effort to interpret what you believe those verses mean.

 

Let me know when you have time to offer interpretation of the verses.  THEN, we will have meat for a dialogue.    Just saying, "I believe it!" will only get you over the bar which is laying on the ground.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Squirm, Billie Boy, squirm.

No- that doesn't fly- you claim that the bible is the sole authority. So what I "think" of these scriptures is completely irrelevant. The question posed to you was simply this- please reconcile the scripture I have posted to your theory of sola scriptura. Thanks

 

Maybe the better question would be:

What do you not understand in these verses, Bill?

 

And:

Why would you or anyone try and interpret them to mean anything but what they say?

 

Since you have always said the bible is literal and inerrant, shouldn't these verses be taken literally and without error? If you can't understand the plain words written in the bible how do you expect to teach anyone else about its meaning? Personally I don't need these verses interpreted or explained to me. I can't imagine anyone over the age of 12 needing these words broken down and explained. They say what they mean and they mean what they say. I think maybe you have spent WAAAAY too much time trying to interpret every verse of the bible to mean what you want it to, that you have forgotten that you believed it was literal and inerrant.

 

Silly fundies.......

 

 

Hi VP,

 

The difference, my Friend, is that I cannot comment on your thoughts and understanding -- until I know your thoughts and understanding.   You just saying, "It is true because I believe it!" -- doesn't fly.

 

You can tell us you believe the moon is made of cheese.  And, you can declare emphatically, "Because I believe it!"   But, that does not make it true.

 

IF you truly believe that Sola Scriptura is wrong -- then, you should know why you believe that -- and be able to explain it clearly.   Just declaring, "Because the Vatican told me!" or "Because I believe it!" is just spitting into the wind.   That, and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

 

You keep wanting me to comment on what the Bible teaches about Sola Scriptura, purgatory, etc.   But, my disagreement is not with the Bible -- it is with you.  I do not disagree with the Bible.  But, I do disagree with the Vatican and you.

 

So, until you can clearly explain your understanding of those Scripture verses -- their is no way I can comment on your understanding of those verses.

 

But, my Friend, when you want to have a serious dialogue on these issues -- between you and me, not between me and the Bible; I am ready.

 

Or, on second thought, maybe you are so insistent upon me responding and telling you the interpretations of those Scripture passages -- because you sincerely want to know the truth about them and cannot find it in the Vatican writings.  If that is so, please tell me and we can proceed from there.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

.

What's going on here billie wad is "Bible alone" isn't true and you can't

think of a way to lie yourself out of it.

What you charge veep with is the very thing you do everyday.

I don't worship the Bible, I just learn from it as best i can while you

live in some dream world where you play god and everyone must

believe your lies and little fiction stories. Or you go crazy.

 

Have a perfectly sparkly day

Invictus, remember what I told you?

===========================

Your attempt at deflection is so juvenile. Stop being so immature.

 

You have already proclaimed to the world how she is incorrect. She posted evidence to defend her position. Refute the evidence and defend your position.

 

Tell us Billie  the "intent" of the authors of these literal and inerrant scriptures.

Thé Vatican does not, nor do my personal feelings about the scripture verses have anything to do with the task at hand. Fact- you advocate and "teach" sola scriptura Fact- you believe the bible to be the sole authority and inerrant Word of god. Therefore, reconcile the two beliefs you advocate, specifically citing the scripture passages provided you. Either it can be done, or it can't. The ball is in your court as I believe I have quite clearly demonstrated that it cannot be done.

Hi VP,

 

Sorry, my Friend, but ALL you have demonstrated is that you CANNOT explain those Scripture verses and now they support your belief.   The extent of your proof is, "Well, I believe it!"

 

Okay, so be it.  Not a problem for me.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Not at all- it doesn't matter what I believe. The Bible doesn't lie- what do I believe? Well I believe obviously that the bible came after the oral and apostolic teachings had been in practice. I believe the words that Jesus said. I believe in the written word of God, an Sacred tradition as It is repeatedly referenced in the bible. There. No more excuses. Now can you or can you not reconcile these verses to sola scriptura

One further point- you constantly insinuate that I have a problem with the Bible- and that I am loyal to te Vatican, and that somehow I am the one who is lost- But mr gray, I DO believe in the literal words o the Bible- I believe that Jesus means what He said. I believe when He said "take this and drink from it- this IS my blood which will be shed for you" . And I believe that we must "hold fast to tradition" The truth is coming out- it is YOU that does not believe the Words of my Lord Jesus Christ. For you have been shown where He warned against sola scriptura- and you refuse to believe it...

 Bill can NEVER admit he is wrong. If someone claims they believe something, he always asks for scripture to back up their beliefs. In this case, you said you believe in tradition and oral teachings. You provided scripture to back your beliefs, and he CAN'T refute it, so he tries diversionary tactics so he won't have to admit he is wrong. He keeps going around in circles, asking what you think these verses mean when the whole time he KNOWS you posted the verses to BACK UP what you already TOLD him you believe.

 

If Bill were a character on a TV show or in a movie, they would have to tone him down a bit in order to make him believable. Otherwise people would say the movie was unrealistic because NO ONE would act that way in real life.

Bill can you read ???

Ohhhh ......he can read "First". It's the comphrension part he struggles with.

 

Welcome to the zoo!!!!

He started a new thread, dodging all my questions. I'm done with this nonsense!!

Not only dodging my statements, but accusing me of being a lousy poster "copy/paste in a helter skelter " .... Saying the scripture posted has no meaning if not accompanied by MY interpretation. I will take this as a clear statement that he is incapable of reconciling these ideas with scripture, and leave it at that. Good luck, people;-)

Billy has always said he's here for those people that "read, but don't post". He should leave, most of them think he looks like a fool/liar too. (and a tool of Satan)

 

 

 

I LOVE IT WHEN ALL THE KIDDIES COME OUT TO PLAY!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

So what are you and the rest of kiddies going to do today Billie? Throw spit balls......temper tantrums......stomp your feet.......hold your breath until you turn blue...........

Are you going to attempt to address my question bill or not?

Hi VP,

 

I have responded.  Take a look in the discussions titled "Sola Scriptura - To Be Or Not To Be!" and "The Bible: Literal Written Word Of God - Or A Book Of Myths And Symbolisms?"

 

Now, if you have a specific verse or passage you want to discuss in detail; bring it on.   However, if you just copy/paste a verse or passage and tell me, "This is what I believe" -- that will not fly.   If you do not understand the passage well enough to explain it -- why should I bother explaining it to you?

 

In other words, it is that old game:  You show me yours -- and I'll show you mine.  Interpretation, that is!

 

On the other hand, if you give me a verse or passage which you admit you truly do not understand -- and ask me to explain it to you -- that is another story.   Are there any verses you do not understand and want my help in interpreting them?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Come on "V"........ You know this is the Billie G forum. You HAVE to play by his rules. 

 

and,

 

He gets to change the rules at any point.

I don't think there is one person here that can't see what Bill has done. Don't play his game anymore.

 

It's a waste of time and the fun has gone out of it for me. I am just going to go back to ignoring his post.

I agree it's no fun- but it is truly infuriating. I have spelled out my case in a hundred different ways...he cannot answer. I guess maybe there's a prize for "I stumped Bill". But I take no pleasure in arguing about Gods Word- but I will not sit idly by while it is butchered and twisted by this nonsense. It's enough for him to say "The bible says it and I believe it"- but when VERBATIM scripture is shown, which clearly contradicts him, suddenly the bible is not enough. It's truly sickening.

Hey bill- here it is- care to tackle it???

While you are busy trolling on catholic websites, have you found your answer?

--------

I predict we'll see him post a separate thread on this subject to dispute your statements, with many cut/paste sections.  

I would have thought so too, Canade but his new thread left out the cited scriptures. He has quite obviously dodged this question.

.

Bottom Line............

The catholic church can't create new scripture, no church or no one can.

We have two sources of divine revelation which the Bible tells us. And that being

Scripture ans Oral Tradition. Both those sources were given by God in the

Apostolic Age where it ended. Whatever was given by divine revelation in the

Apostolic Age, the Church was responsible to preserve. That is why we have

copies of the original autographs of Scripture and Church documents telling us

the oral teachings of the Apostles.

If you believe the bible then you should the Apostles in that they regarded their

divinely inspired oral teaching as they do their divinely inspired written teachings.

　

 

2 Tim 2: 1-2

1 You therefore, my son, be strong in Christ Jesus:

2 And the things which you have heard of me by many witnesses, the same

commend to faithful men who shall be fit to teach others also.

　

 

Matt 16: 16-19

16 Simon Peter answered and said: You are Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona: because

flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my

church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever

you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you

shall loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

　

 

2 Peter 1:20-21 / 2:1

20 Understanding this first: That no prophecy of scripture is made by private

interpretation.

21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men

of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

2: 1-2

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be

among you lying teachers who shall bring in sects of perdition and deny the

Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their riotousness, through whom the way of truth

shall be evil spoken of.

　

 

So there you go, private interpretation again, leads to false teachers who being

destructive heresies.

 

 

On this we agree- private interpretation is clearly dangerous and leads believers astray- That's why I am confused as to why billgray continually asks for my interpretation?

Hi Vic,

 

Actually, my Friend, there are NO ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPHS of Scripture in existence today -- anywhere.

 

And, by church documents I presume you mean Vatican documents.  Those and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,;

 

Bill

Hey bill? The relevant bible says hold fast to oral tradition. And warns against private interpretation. Still waiting for your response.

 

And waiting- bill- what say you?

Hi VP,

 

What say I?  I say that the day you can give me a Scripture verse -- AND explain it, i.e., interpret it -- for yourself, without Vatican help -- then, we will have something to discuss.

 

But, your, "The Vatican told me!" or your, "Because that is what I believe!" -- are not valid explanations.   Those are just cop-outs.  What you are really saying is, "I have no idea; but, I believe it!"  Well, DUH!  Based upon that, there is no foundation for a discussion.  Case closed.

 

Yet, I am still waiting, and hopeful, for you to give the intelligent, self realized answer that I feel you are capable of giving.   But, I will not hold my breath.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill