Abortion

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
See, when I hear someone say "we are powerless" (sorry KS), them's fighting words. Time to strap on my big girl boots & come out swinging.

Never are we powerless. As I said on this thread, we have entered the information age...girls will be very much aware of what would happen in a back alley & the risks, just like they know the risks now when they have sex.

Joy, I KNOW... and that is what I said, basically... but other than that, we ARE powerless... I don't think anyone can find a solution to it.

quote:

Originally posted by yankeewitch:

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
See, when I hear someone say "we are powerless" (sorry KS), them's fighting words. Time to strap on my big girl boots & come out swinging.

Never are we powerless. As I said on this thread, we have entered the information age...girls will be very much aware of what would happen in a back alley & the risks, just like they know the risks now when they have sex.

Joy,
Do you think that all of the women that sought out abortions, say in the 40's, didn't know the risks they were taking? I believe they did and still chose to have one, because they were desparate.Desparate people do many stupid things.

YW, yes, they knew, and there are risks even by today's standards... but there are still people taking them every single day.... Never said I liked it, never said I agreed with it, I have given my stance on abortion so many times on this forum, but I still say that there is NOTHING anyone can do about it keeping on going, regardless of what the law says.

quote:

Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Joy,
Do you think that all of the women that sought out abortions, say in the 40's, didn't know the risks they were taking? I believe they did and still chose to have one, because they were desparate.Desparate people do many stupid things.

If a person knows the risks & still chooses to do that (although I find that an odd choice considering how huge the risk), that person would have only themselves to blaim for what happens. We are all responsible for our own choices & the consequences of those choices, especially when we are aware of the consequences before we make the choice.

I will wade into this mess onece more (as so many of you have).
This really is NOT about whether abortion is a bad thing. I don't know anybody that would say it is good. That is how it is portraied by the anti-abortion-rights bunch, but it is a lie.
The subject really is about rights. Does a woman have rights. Our country made a big thing a few years back about bringing rights to women in Afganistan, but why would you want the women here in the USA to be denied basic rights of what she does with her body.
After reading some of the above post, I believe that the problem is that a lot of people have an un-natural problem with sex. The same people who oppose so much the rights and freedoms of women to chose, also many oppose birth control, morning after pill, and such. I hear ravings about abstiance being the only acceptable way to not get pregnant. Well, get over it! We are not in the Victorian age any more. You are not going to bring back Beaver Cleaver and the 50's again !.
The urge to procreate is the most basic instinct to all life in the world, and just because you may not like it, you ain't gonna stop it. Sex was NOT (as some seem to think) , introduced to the American youth in the 60's to take away our morality.
Please, do not make this issue about pro-abortion, or anti-abortion. The real issue is does the government (you) have the right to force other people to make a choice that you approve of. I say NO! YOu, me, the government, Jerry Falwell, nor anybody else has the right to fource their beliefs on anybody. Don't stand for it.

Lordy, excelman, what the crap? I'm not for abortion, love sex & God bless the inventor of birth control...you could not be more mistaken about that.

There's a number of other things you might avoid through abstinence & they are pretty nasty. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Furthermore, if you will read the arguments in this thread NOT based on religion, you might find there ARE some arguments NOT based on religion.

What this is about is deciding (sorry for those that are reading this for the umpteenth time) whether a womans's needs & wants outweigh those of the life inside her body. Don't feel bad, everybody else forgets about him or her too. They also forget to take this life's needs & wants into consideration, the fact that the chances are slim to none this life would choose death. This life is easily disregarded because he or she can't look you in the face & demand to know why he or she is not worth your time.

This is my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine.

Ewww, one of those times when I wish I had taken a time out before posting. Sorry, excelman, if that sounded in any way a personal attack on you. I do feel strongly about the subject, but I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me at all.

well i am very much FOR the LEGAL RIGHT of abortion. That is as excelman explained it has to do more with the womans rights to do with her own body what SHE CHOOSES,not what the government TELLS her.
and excelman, I am the one against birth control,beyond the natural method of calculation of ovulation. And you have no right to place any judgement on any woman on this board having un-natural problems with sex. That has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of this topic.Sex is not a sporting event(sorry but your redneck attitude to sex is showing). That casual attitude is the single most problem with there being the NEED for legalized abortion. Sex does require maturity to fully grasp beauty of the act itself,but there are concequences and there are responsibilities. We are not dogs running loose in the woods(although some act like it).

My apologies to all whom I have offended. I took a big drink of Segrams 7 and like Joy, wished I had thought thru my post a little better.
I'm just sick of this subject, and the way it gets portrayed- both sides.
I'm sick of hearing the term "pro life" to describe the viewpoint of those who oppose choice. What does that make those of us who love feeedom?-- pro death
I'm sick of hearing pro choice people referred to as "pro abortion". I don't know a single person in public or private life who is for (pro) a girl getting pregnant and having an abortion.
I'm sick of people who don't have a problem with gays having some kind of legal status, being called "pro gay" (a term used by my own cousin/preacher/car salesman). Does that mean those people are "for people becoming gay"?
Most of all, I am sick and tired of these two issues being used in political campains to sucessfully give us the single most destructive, government this country has ever had. Our country is in deep trouble , and these two issues have denominated the political process under the guise of "Values issues". We need to focus on real issues. If you don't like abortions, don't have one; if you don't like birth control, dont take it , but don't deny it to those who don't share your view.

So I am sorry if my post had some venom.'

I agree, excelman. It's just juvenile name-calling and it accomplishes nothing. If your goal (I assume this is their goal) is to influence people to see things your way, how far are going to get if you start with insulting them and calling them names, your little pet names, not their actual names? Adults should be capable of debating an issue without making personal attacks. I've slipped myself, but I hope I realize my mistake and correct it, try not to repeat it (like you just did ) JMHO

no problem excelman! I am with ya on this ,I am sick of hearing about it being a political issue,pro or con. Its a moral issue, pure and simple.and i do not mean to offend anyone,but as it was said in another thread, the government has no business ruling moral issues.

What exactly is a moral issue? Why do we have laws? Why are rape, forgery, littering, indecent exposure and perjury crimes in this country? Our laws are stating what our society deems as morally right and wrong.

lets say, a woman is pregnant, she tells no one and gets an abortion. has she violated you in any way? has she offended you in any way? has she taken something belonging to you away?
Remember,now you do not know about it,as she has kept her business private.

now the purpose for the above post,, if i am raped,my body HAS BEEN VIOLATED,
if someone forges my name ,,I have been violated, possibly costing me untold amounts of money to correctall sorts of possiblyt legal issues
if I litter,I have offended what others have to look at and damaged what they view
if someone indecentently exposes themselves to me they HAVE VIOLATED ME PERSONALLY to what has been determined as OFFENSIVE BEHAVIOR
perjury,,,is outright lying which can cause someone else great harm,or cause me great harm
Now tell me how if a woman becomes pregnant,gets an abortion privately HOW this is an act against you? Is this not a crime between her and God? I personally know of 2 women who had those "back alley" abortions while in high school and very ,very secret. they both are living the high profile lives in the community and no one knows.So where is their punishment? It is with God, because man had no ruling,no control over it when the actions were done.

If I smoke a joint, sale my friend a joint , and then rent a hooker, call my bookie and place a wager, and then go into the pimping business for myself, who have I violated?

Y'all stop! My stomach's hurting I've laughed so much this morning.

Smurph, I have not been violated, but that life inside the woman's body sure as heck has. If you were violated and rendered unable to speak for yourself, I would hope our justice system would go ahead and prosecute the perpetrator anyway.