quote:
Originally posted by alacharger:
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by alacharger:
Brings a tear to the eye...but wait!!!!!
When this hokey clip was filmed, how many times had the World Trade Center been attacked first with car bombs, then two aircraft, resulting in almost 3,000 casulties?????? NONE
How many times had times had the US Pentagon been attacked and hundreds killed????? NONE
How many people had been captured trying to get on a commercial air liner with a bomb in their shoe, who confessed that their sole purpose was to blow up the aircraft? NONE
Seems like we don't live in Mayberry anymore................
it's harder to get a driver's license than to buy a gun. The left, in the incongruous company of most police chiefs, want to regulate gun purchases and ownership to try to be sure that criminals have less easy access to weapons.
The right...probably more for a concern for votes than anything else...is adamently against any further controls on gun ownership, saying that it would erode personal freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.
But...the same 'Right' had few if any objections to the "Patriot Act" which does limit personal freedom. The republican Right likes the constitution when it refers to their needs.
Boy, are you wrong about police chiefs wanting to regulate gun purchases and ownership. That's a load of cow chips. In fact, it's a sordid tale fronted by the media and a few radical Police chiefs who are so out of touch with street issues it's amazing they even know how to put a uniform on. Police chiefs generally and rank and file officers specifically are NOT for gun contol. There are a very few notable exceptions, but especially here in the south, cops just don't agree with gun control.
What freedoms are being limited by the Patriot Act? I think you are confusing "freedoms" with "rights", and even then, I don't see that there are any major issues there. If you are not a terrorist, you don't have any worries...if you are, you better start hiding.
Charger,To start with this government was the one that ignored all the warnings that allowed the 9/11 attacks in the first place. They cut the budget and called al Qaeda a low priority. Rice and Rumsfeld ignored our own intelligence reports, as well as warnings from other governments, and a special vist and warning by George Tenet himself, so don't tell me how "Vigelent" this government is.
Creating a Big Brother Police State is no replacement for real National Security. It is to cover for their incompetence and squash dissent to their policies. Like all police states eventually anyone who complains about any policy, War, Economic, Environmental, Corruption, is deemed an enemy of the state. The people lose power over their government. Governments are only made up of people. All positions of authority and power need oversight, checks and balances. The famous quote says it all, "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely." Our Fore Fathers knew history and it's why they wrote these protections into the Constitution. That's why we have safe guards to protect the innocent from an over zealous government
There is no need to create a police state to keep us safe. Freedom is as important as safety. What is safety without freedom for eventually the loss of freedom will lead to the loss of safety. Freedom is what keeps our govenrment honest and it's people safe. What kind of freeodm do we have when we are under constant surveilance and the govenrment films and makes files on it's citizens? That's not real freeodm.
Filming - Files, the PATRIOT ACT. The FBI wants to know what you read, and the Librarian is forbidden by law to tell you that your being investigated y the FBI. How do innocent people defend themselves? This isn't TV where the Police only investigate the criminals and don't make mistakes. They can come in and search your house without a warrant and not tell you for a while after.
We have laws now on the books where they can search your house and wire tap your phone, if they show a judge just cause. That's all that is stopping them.
The Military Commissions act can classify you an enemy combatant, like they did to Jose Padilla and you have no right to a lawyer or Habeas Corpus, which the right to challenge your detention in Court, basic Human right granted back around 1200 sometime.
It also legalizes torture.
They dropped the terrorism charges against Padilla, after holding and abusing him for a number of years. There is no case. And is not the only one. Just look at all these innocent people being released from jail all the time, cleared by DNA. What happens when they end your right to Due Process?
Most major cities have cameras on government buildings inside and out.
We saw the abuse of files and covert actions by the FBI under Hoover and the CIA against peace groups and anyone who disagreed with government policy. It was discovered under the Church Committee hearings in 1975 that the CIA had operated in the US to influence opinions and policies, as well as other operations. Some of it's operations were given in secret testimony and not disclosed to the American people. Frank Church died of cancer a few years after the hearings.
Even now look how it is getting more difficult to get a drivers license and they want us to have a National ID Card and more files. Think that's going to stop terrorists who can easily get phony ID? Now you are fined for not producing your papers when stopped by a cop, even though they just call it in on their computers.
They have road blocks for "our safety" to protect us from drunken driving when even some law enforcement officials have said they are not necessary.
These laws are in place to squash dissent to their policies. The reason we have these freedoms is to keep safe guards over our government and prevent it from being highjacked by special interests that will use it for their own purposes. Like a war, based on lies, for their own profits and power and cover for their corruption. That was the real reason for the fall of the Soviet Empire. Look at what life was like under the Soviet Block, ease dropping, cameras, files, secret police and prisons, torture, citizens spying on each other. It's police state prevented whistle blowers from exposing and ending corruption that ate away the society from within.
Simple police work and international cooperation has captured and done more damage to al Qaeda then all of Bush's wire tapping and PATRIOT ACT laws. It was reported that out of 5,000 phone taps less then 10 people aroused suspicion for further investigation. A very bad ratio for the money and time spent. Even the FBI and other intelligence agencies complained they were being inundated with useless information that was hampering real investigations.
We are being attacked becasue of our policies in the Mideast. Bin Laden and others have constantly said they are trying to drive out Western contol and domination of their region. The West ha dominated the region, for the oil, overthrowing governments, suppressing democratic movements and supporting repressive dictators and regimes since WW1. These crimes are hidden from the American public by the corporate media. The same people who lied us into the Iraq War and continue to lie.
Sure, you have no problems now if your a good little citizen and don't question or complain but hey are building the apparatus of a Police State around us. In the future if you complain about the quality of your life as it deteriorates or when they bring back the draft and start taking your kid to send him or her to Iraq or Afghanistan or Iran or where ever to fight their war for oil and profits you can be deemed "an enemy of the state" if you complain. How about if they use your town as a Nuclear waste dump and tell you you have no rights. That's what happens in police states with no rights. Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Spain, the Soviet Bloc.
Look how corporate America controls you life. Took your job and sent it over seas.
During WW2 in Nazi Germany if a worker complained about low wages and high prices he was sent to a concentration camp. They thought nothing of just shipping workers from one factory to another in another city, uproot you family and all because the government said that's where they needed you.
Generations before us fought and died to have these safe guards in place to protect us from government abuse, which are now unwilling to stand up for and give the same rights to your children. Claim to be a patriot yet willing to give up rights our Fore fathers fought and died for. Those willing to give up these freedoms are the real cowards.
If this government can't protect our safety and our freedoms then we will get competent people who will.