Atheist/Unbelievers

Not nearly as conflicted as all the voices in your head.

Basically that statement about atheist making judgments against the Christians here is more one of Irony.  It's ironic because many atheist or many of those who decry Christians and Christianity claim they do so and have a right to because Christians are "so judgmental".  They talk about Christians condemning others to hell or being Judgmental of their sins.   Essentially what they are doing, quite often, is the very same thing that they accuse others of doing.  They are quite judgmental themselves as well as condemning and critical yet they don't seem to see that.

As for the statement that Christians condemn them or condemn atheist to hell I haven't seen any of the representative Christians here word it that way but maybe there have been some.  A pastor might make that statement in a sermon but that's his job to reveal what the scriptures say.  My opinion is, that we Christians don't need to go around making statements such as "you're going to hell" or saying you need to stop sinning and be saved.  We aren't to judge those outside the Church and it's the Holy Spirit's ministry to reveal people's sins, and our sins as well, and God will judge sin.  John 3:17 says 

John 3:17 (American Standard Version)
 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.

My opinion is that we, Christians, should, like Christ, be more concerned with telling people about Salvation available through Christ Sacrifice rather than being Judgmental or judging whether a person is committing a sin or not by what they are doing.  

Well said, gbrk... The impression that we are constantly preaching "at" everyone is a leftover from the days of the since banned resident troll... He did so much more harm here than all the rest did good... It will take a long time and a lot of patience before the forum fully recovers from his presence...

Thank you...

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LOL, he has a wannabe successor.

Whenever I feel the need of a sermon..............

I talk to myself. There's occasional infighting but no one is hurt and I always

win. Almost always.

Welcome Jack and Skippy come back, time for pleasant dialog and fun, and the tossing of the judgmental wannabe preachers.

Is Skippy back?

No, I said skippy come back, and welcome jack. We used to have nice discussions with skippy until he was run off.

My apologies Gdgriggs as I missed your reply and did now respond so I will respond now if you don't mind.

I agree that within the Scriptures God reveals what future those who deny Christ will face as well as reveal unto Christians many things as God's Holy Spirit directs.  I will though post the Scripture that I based my assertion that Christians should not set in Judgment of the Unsaved or those whom might be seeking God or even those who are not seeking to know God.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (Contemporary English Version)
⁹  In my other letter I told you not to have anything to do with immoral people.
¹⁰  But I wasn't talking about the people of this world. You would have to leave this world to get away from everyone who is immoral or greedy or who cheats or worships idols.
¹¹  I was talking about your own people who are immoral or greedy or worship idols or curse others or get drunk or cheat. Don't even eat with them!
¹²  Why should I judge outsiders? Aren't we supposed to judge only church members?
¹³  God judges everyone else. The Scriptures say, "Chase away any of your own people who are evil." 

 

I believe that Paul is explaining that Judgment of those who CLAIM Christ, Claim to be Christians yet openly and outwardly do and live in ways that are against what God tells us to do.  WE ARE to JUDGE those within the Church, those who Claim to know Christ yet live as those who don't.  One reason is that in our own daily lives we are a testimony and witness to the world around us and often God chooses to use the life of a Christian to prompt or provoke someone who is not saved to wonder what they are missing or why they don't have the same happiness.  

So that's why I say we (Christians) are not living scripturally and according to God's will when we point fingers at others, we consider sinful or lost, and claim that they  are not living according to how God wants them to live.   We are essentially judging people for being just as we are, sinful.  Christians are also sinful as we sin each day as well.  We may try not to and we may have a different focus in life and our sins may not be exactly the same form but we all do still sin and are not perfect and yield to temptations of the flesh. 

When we stand in Judgment of those, outside the Church, those who are lost, then we are seen as hypocritical and often become hindrances to what the Holy Spirit is doing in convicting of people.  We allow Satan to throw up defenses and create a distraction to the real point which is that everyone is sinful and needs Christ.  We should tell others about how Christ changed us, how God's Holy Spirit brought meaning and happiness into our lives and testify as God leads us to do but it is MY OPINION that when we seek to tell others what they are doing wrong (which is a judgment based upon our own interpretations) then we are NOT living in God's Will and according to what Christ told us to do.

That's my own opinion mind you.

My apologies to you also gbrk. I did not realize you made a comment directed toward me in this thread till today.

I think we can agree with most of what you said, but probably not on what the future holds for those who deny Christ. A few key passages below as to why I believe not everyone will always deny Him.

Isa 45:22  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23  I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So here at least 3 verses confirming that every knee shall bow and confess Jesus is Lord. I hope we can agree as to what happens when a person confesses Jesus as Lord.

1Jn 4:15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Mat_10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What can I say except I believe what is written? As for those who say there is some sort of time limit and that we must confess before we die, please show me where it says this and lets us at least talk it over if you find it written somewhere. And if we continue to disagree after that then so be it. Either way it makes for great study and meditation.

Peace

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I have to kindly disagree. Anyone that see's a self confessed "Christian" doing/saying something they shouldn't has every right to call them on it. Doesn't matter if you're a believer or not. Right is right, wrong is wrong. 

Being judgmental is a fact of being human and everyone does it, atheist do it, Christians do it, agnostics do it, etc, etc, etc,   I wasn't saying that atheist or anyone else of that matter can't judge or call out Christians for doing things that they feel are unchristian but because they do it doesn't make it valid.  Christians stand accountable unto God and in representing Christ/God they are also accountable to other Christians who have a duty and are told to judge each other so as to be faithful unto Christ and not damage the Cause of Christ.   Christians are not accountable to non-christians or anyone else though for we are all sinful in God's sight.  

The point I made was that while Christians are encouraged to Judge other Christians acts, WITHIN the Church to insure purity of the Church and maintain Christ witness, Christians are also told NOT TO JUDGE those OUTSIDE the Church, non-christians, with respect to sinning.  We are not to judge another but rather Judge ourselves and judge those who claim Christ and judge what is taught to insure that it is true to God's Word and true to Scriptures.  

I am though curious as to what basis a non-christian would judge or stand in judgment of a Christian?  What is determined as sinful in a non-christian's eyes, or an atheist eyes?  If an Atheist rejects God and rejects the Scriptures then from what standard is judgment formed and what is determined to be wrong?   I agree that a person can be determined to be inconsistent with what they preach, teach, or claim to believe and maybe that's what you are saying and if so I understand but even then why would the person even care if that was going on unless they had "a horse in the race" so to say.  

I think this goes back to those who, as Christians, promote themselves to be better than others and while doing so reach out and make judgments against others who are just as bad or in many cases much morally better than the ones who are doing the judging and claiming to be Christians and right with God.  Unfortunately there are far too many Christians who don't really know what they are talking about and don't even realize that God has said that they are not to judge others with respect to sin but rather only to stand in judgment of our own personal selves and judgment of those who claim Christ name yet do against His Will and written word/instructions.

Bless your demented little heart! Are you enjoying your newest identity?

What do they not believe? 

CG/CB says atheists can't judge if they don't believe in God. People would

be surprised knowing how many preachers don't believe in God, but preach

and judge in their churches every Sunday.

Oh, I believe it. 

It's a business. A career.