Bands play for Jones's get out the vote push

Two prominent Alabama-based musical acts are helping Democrat Doug Jones get out the vote for Tuesday's U.S. Senate election against Republican Roy Moore.

 

Singer Jason Isbell performed a free show for Jones' campaign in Huntsville Saturday night, and two members of St. Paul & the Broken Bones did a show in Birmingham.

Jones took the stage during the Birmingham show, telling the crowd: "Now is the time to make the winds of change blow through Alabama." Jones said Moore is divisive and would be a "disaster" for Alabama businesses.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick joined Jones on stage, saying the Alabama race is important to the whole nation.

Isbell played in a mid-sized music hall, while lead singer Paul Janeway and a bandmate from St. Paul & the Broken Bones performed at Birmingham's city auditorium. The hall seats 6,000 people for shows, but only the floor was full.

 

Original Post
SirWasabi posted:

Two prominent Alabama-based musical acts are helping Democrat Doug Jones get out the vote for Tuesday's U.S. Senate election against Republican Roy Moore.

 

Singer Jason Isbell performed a free show for Jones' campaign in Huntsville Saturday night, and two members of St. Paul & the Broken Bones did a show in Birmingham.

Jones took the stage during the Birmingham show, telling the crowd:"Now is the time to make the winds of change blow through Alabama." Jones said Moore is divisive and would be a "disaster" for Alabama businesses.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick joined Jones on stage, saying the Alabama race is important to the whole nation.

Isbell played in a mid-sized music hall, while lead singer Paul Janeway and a bandmate from St. Paul & the Broken Bones performed at Birmingham's city auditorium. The hall seats 6,000 people for shows, but only the floor was full.

 

I can sum up why I'm choosing to cast a vote for Roy Moore on Tuesday based on a very few issues/facts.  Roy Moore has consistently denied the allegations as they were made and deserves to be treated as any other citizen (guilty or not) by the presumptive innocent until proven guilty.  IF, after the election, he is elected and seated then if proven guilty then he should be replaced by the Senate and the Governor replace him as there is provision to do.  At this point though there is reasonable enough doubt to suspect that not all the truth has been told or that we have received incomplete information.  

Regarding the statement above, regarding calling Moore divisive and being a disaster for Alabama business as well as saying that the race is important to the whole nation.  For one Doug Jones is divisive as is almost every politician in Washington, at least divisive to some people and on some topics.  In Jones case his stance on the murder of the most innocent, unborn children who are surely alive even though they are still in the womb.  

If my vote for Moore is for anything it's to protect the lives of those who are at greatest risk, the yet unborn.  If those who say they are so concerned about young children are consistent then they should also be concerned that the youngest and most vulnerable and innocent are at risk with pro Abortion politicians in Washington that would vote to allow their murder even up and until they are born.  That IS murder of the most horrendous nature, in many cases pulling the fetus apart with pliers and discarding it as trash.  

Additionally there is NO DOUBT in my mind that Doug Jones would vote 100% in line with the Democrats, regardless of what he says he will do, and vote against Donald Trump regardless of what the vote is about.  On that front Donald Trumps performance in office, to date, has proven to be a boon for business both in Alabama and around the nation with economic growth far exceeding what Barak Obama ever could achieve.  

The reductions of regulations, mostly put on by the Democrats, and the prospect of reduced taxes as promised by the Republicans and Trump have the Stock Market at all time highs with no sign of retreat.  Business is striving, employment is up and rising while unemployment is falling.  So Doug Jones predictable Obstruction vote as all Democrats are doing is not in the interest of Alabama business but would actually be harmful to Alabama business and National businesses.  

The race is important to the whole nation but not in the way that Doug Jones people are trying to say.  Important in keeping another Republican vote in Donald Trump's corner and in achieving what Donald Trump promised.  Democrats are total obstructionist and can be counted on to vote against Trump 100% of the time, regardless.  Republicans are having a hard enough time getting things passed with certain trader Senators that are so angry at Trump that they will vote against him no matter how it hurts the Republican Party and basically they don't care because they won't be up for reelection so they are going to join the Democrats in being obstructionist which means a vote for Roy Moore is extremely important in attempting to keep the Trump agenda.  

Jeff Flake, Bob Corker, and John McClain can be counted on to allow their own hurt feelings to override their concern for the Nation and sadly there are a few others that fall into that category so with the totally predictable 100% Democratic obstructionist vote every potential Republican vote is needed so it is important to the Nation because Donald Trump's agenda is making a positive difference as miffed as the National Media is at reporting it, when or if they report it.  

For that reason I believe it is imperative that all Republicans vote for Roy Moore even though he isn't the perfect candidate.  IF he is proven to have lied with his denials or more evidence comes forward to prove he lied then he should be removed and replaced by the Governor, with another Republican Senator.   I was for Mo Brooks and he didn't get anywhere enough votes and although I was totally against Luther Strange I would have chosen Strange over Jones for the same reasons I'll be voting for Roy Moore on Tuesday.  I'm sure there will be plenty of folks out there that will offset my vote, which is all right for I'm sure they have their reasons to cast their vote.  

SirWasabi posted:

Do you honestly think Roy Moore is going to overturn Roe vs. Wade?

No I don't.  What I do believe we need more Republican Senators and Republicans in Congress for is keeping the Trump promises and agenda which I believe is proving that it is helping the economy and restoring America back to a position of strength and accomplishment.  Additionally I feel it is more important for the conservative and Constitutional Judges that are to be appointed.  

One thing that greatly concerns me, as a citizen, Liberal or Conservative it should concern everyone, is the activist Judges that are on many of our Courts that have proven they have no concern for the Constitution but rather are seeking to legislate from the bench.  The 9th Court out west being one of the greatest examples which attempted to stop anything and everything that Trump wanted to do by ruling it was unconstitutional.  They knew it wasn't and that he was within his constitutional powers to do what he wanted yet they ruled as they did in order to hinder his progress and slow him down. 

The Supreme Court backed up Trump, 100% and every time.  Each Judge that proves they allow their partisanship, conservative or liberal, to override their Constitutional duties then they need to step down or be removed from the bench (and that includes Judge Roy Moore who should have resigned if he couldn't abide by his constitutional duties)  I don't believe he has always been right but at least he does what he says he will and can be trusted.   Abortion is but one topic and if Roe vs Wade stands it stands but there is far more than just one ruling that is at stake.  I have no problem with Abortion due to some circumstances and within certain time periods, as long as it's not used for birth control, and used for the reasons of safety for the Mother or other defined reasons.  Doug Jones though would have no problem with them pulling the arms and head off a baby one week before it was to be born and that is murder no matter how you cut it.  That is dangerous and that is a very good reason to oppose him on that one measure alone.  But that is my own, personal, opinion.

gbrk posted:

 Doug Jones though would have no problem with them pulling the arms and head off a baby one week before it was to be born and that is murder no matter how you cut it.  That is dangerous and that is a very good reason to oppose him on that one measure alone.  But that is my own, personal, opinion.

You do realize that Doug Jones has stated that he doesn't believe in 'late term abortion' and that Roy Moore's campaign started that lie? And Roy Moore, while condemning Jones' attack ads, has continued to run his attack ads on Jones, complete with the lie about late term abortion.

 

SirWasabi posted:
gbrk posted:

 Doug Jones though would have no problem with them pulling the arms and head off a baby one week before it was to be born and that is murder no matter how you cut it.  That is dangerous and that is a very good reason to oppose him on that one measure alone.  But that is my own, personal, opinion.

You do realize that Doug Jones has stated that he doesn't believe in 'late term abortion' and that Roy Moore's campaign started that lie? And Roy Moore, while condemning Jones' attack ads, has continued to run his attack ads on Jones, complete with the lie about late term abortion.

 

Really .. a LIE?   Where are you getting this load of crap?   I HEARD THE DOUG JONES INTERVIEW MYSELF!   I heard Doug Jones as he stated, in his own words, after being ask repeatedly about when abortion was not permissible, and in his own words he stated AFTER IT WAS BORN!  There was no ambiguity or no mistake about it.  After the baby was born, after it was breathing on it's own, then he became pro life.   The ONLY conclusion one could take from Doug Jones own words was that BEFORE the baby was born, before it was breathing on it's own outside the womb, he would have no problem with it being aborted and would vote accordingly.  

For you to say otherwise means you either never heard the interview and are proceeding on bad, incorrect, information or you are deliberately being deceitful in what you are saying.  Did you hear Jone's very words as here they are from a transcript.

Jones: "I'm not in favor of anything that is going to infringe on a woman's right and her freedom to choose. That's just the position that I've had for many years. It's a position I continue to have. But I want people to understand that once that baby is born, I'm going to be there for that child. That's where I become a right-to-lifer."

I"m sorry but "ONCE THAT BABY IS BORN" pretty much lays it on the line as being when the baby is born, out of the womb, breathing on it's own.  Anything, 20 weeks on and, before that time certainly IS LATE TERM ABORTION!

Later Jones did make a statement regarding the current law regarding Late term Abortions and that may be what you are referring to but the above words, of Jones, were made to Chuck Todd and if he wasn't open to "before birth" abortions he could have clearly indicated so there.   Coming around afterwards when it was politically expedient for him to do so and say he was agreeing with the current law, I see as a political move and I believe he said what he believes when he had the first chance to.

I also do not believe Doug Jones when he says he would be his own person and vote according to what benefits the people of Alabama regardless of what the Democratic Party said to do.   I have not a doubt that Doug Jones would cast an opposition vote, to Donald Trump, every time and vote as Chuck Schumer said to vote along with 100% of the other Democrats.  Anyone who believes otherwise is also being politically expedient or willing to be deceived.   I will though give Doug Jones great credit in many of his advertisements as being positive and telling what he will do rather than slamming and degrading his opponent.  For that I admire him but then the closer to Election Day that practice has taken a few hits and he's returned to some traditional negative advertising against Roy Moore.   I also detest Roy Moore's ad's slamming Doug Jones.  I believe in the more "tell us what you are going to do" ad's rather than the negative ads.

Basically, you believe Roy Moore's statements and believe Doug Jones to be a liar. Perfect Alabama Republican.

The 'once the baby is born' is a stance against Republicans being 'pro-life', but stop caring once the child is born. For example, cutting any programs that may help feed or educate the just born child.

“I believe that [abortion] is an intensely, intensely personal decision. I think anything involving a pregnancy like that has got to be a decision made between a woman and her family, her partner, her husband, her significant other, whatever, and her faith and her physician. And for decades the law has supported that. And I think by and large the people of Alabama support that. But having said that, there has also been for decades limits on late-term procedures. And those are only reserved for cases of medical necessity. And despite what everybody has said, that’s what I support and I continue to support that.”  -Doug Jones-

SirWasabi posted:

“I believe that [abortion] is an intensely, intensely personal decision. I think anything involving a pregnancy like that has got to be a decision made between a woman and her family, her partner, her husband, her significant other, whatever, and her faith and her physician. And for decades the law has supported that. And I think by and large the people of Alabama support that. But having said that, there has also been for decades limits on late-term procedures. And those are only reserved for cases of medical necessity. And despite what everybody has said, that’s what I support and I continue to support that.”  -Doug Jones-

I totally agree about the intensely personal decision but here is the one problem with that, that I have.  If the Husband, mate, partner, and the woman decide that they just don't want a baby and care to use Abortion is to me choosing to murder an individual because that person isn't wanted.  If two people agree to kill someone is that okay?   The real question is when that fetus becomes a living, viable, person and I am not able to make that decision but I also am comfortable in saying it's somewhere before 8th or 9th month and I'm not comfortable electing someone that has stated after birth is when they consider it viable life.  In many cases laws have been wrong that have allowed "late term" abortions for any reason that the person decides to have them.

I'm not trying to make decisions for parents but I also respect that laws are there to protect the innocent against murder which is what I consider abortion to be if it is done at certain times.  I consider the unborn life just as important as the life that supports that unborn life for both should be protected.   I also don't believe Abortion to be a viable form of Birth Control but rather something very serious to be considered in cases of incest, rape, or serious health situations.  Each has their own opinions and beliefs and the challenge is to work out a compromise, if possible.

SirWasabi posted:

Do you honestly think Roy Moore is going to overturn Roe vs. Wade?

It could happen, liberal dems overturned the Ten Commandments
 and legalized murder for the sake of financial gain/blood money and
a alternative form of birth control...  
SirWasabi posted:

 I've just shown you that Roy Moore's campaign has lied about Jones' stance on abortion. So, you think Roy Moore can make abortion illegal?

No, I'm sorry you haven't!  You, nor Doug Jones, have negated Jone's first interview where he most definitely said and implied that life doesn't began until after birth and given plenty of chances to distance himself from Abortion prior to actual birth, he never did so, by his own words he declined to oppose abortion prior to actual birth of the child and only promised his protection to someone that was actually born and breathing on their own.  To say otherwise is to your own credibility's demise.  I totally respect your position and your desire to defend Jones based on his remarks made after this interview and after he saw what opposition there was to his words but I just believe you are in error about his initial remarks and are not considering them.

And no Roy Moore cannot make abortion Illegal nor more than Doug Jones can make it legal.  Each can only be one out of 100 (101 counting the Vice President) votes in the Senate but the Democrats have proven to be 100% of the time obstructionist who have no concern for the American people but only to oppose the Trump agenda, an agenda which is proving that it's making the economy grow and better.  So Roy Moore CAN be a vote for the Trump promises and agenda, Roy Moore can be a vote for approving conservative, Constitutional Judges which our Nation so badly needs, especially at a time when advocate Judges are legislating from the bench attempting to stop Donald Trump in the most unconstitutional way abusing their powers that are given them by a constitution that they so evidently do not care about but are more concerned in acting in a most biased political way.

Kraven posted:
SirWasabi posted:

Do you honestly think Roy Moore is going to overturn Roe vs. Wade?

It could happen, liberal dems overturned the Ten Commandments
 and legalized murder for the sake of financial gain/blood money and
a alternative form of birth control...  

Believe it or not, oldcrow, the 'ten commandments' weren't 'overturned'. I bet you can't walk and chew gum, at the same time.

SirWasabi posted:

And Republicans didn't act the exact same way the past 8 years? Why do they get a free pass? What's the difference in the past 9 years, except for the switch of the party in control?

I'm not saying that for many did and all to the same avail which was to not help the other party.   I don't know if 100% of the Republicans worked together, I kind of doubt that because they can't seem to work together even though they are in the majority.  At least it can be said that the Democrats know how to wield their power and use it more to their advantage.  Still both parties tend to, at times, consider their own well being over that of the Nation and it's a sad testimony for both parties.  

The Nations founders built in mechanisms to slow down the legislative process and to insure that parties had to work together but only recently have I seen the caustic political polarization that exist and I believe that the origins of that go back to the 2000 George Bush election over Al Gore and the Florida hanging chads where many Democrats believe the election was stolen from Gore setting us on a path of no cooperation whatsoever.  The election of Obama gave the Democrats total control where they could correct all evils totally uncontested because they had the numbers in both houses of Congress that gave them veto proof and filibuster proof authority.  After 2008 - 2010 the Democrats should have no arguments about any evils that still exist especially ones that are harmful to the minority community because they had total power and control to correct all these evils and they either squandered that ability, didn't know how to use it, or didn't care enough to cure all the evils.  After 2010, yes, the Republicans did achieve enough wins to be obstructionist and then lobby the American people for the numbers to give them control so as they could implement the agenda they promised and talked about all through the Obama years.  Today they are proving that they can't act uniformly either, leaving their interest behind in the interest of the American people as a whole.

They have yet to fulfill the promise to abolish Obamacare (Democratic Healthcare) and it's possible that they will not fulfill their tax bill promises and if that happens then they (my opinion) will suffer a huge electoral defeat in 2018 and beyond so the Democrats fully (I believe) understand what they have to gain by being total obstructionist even if it is detrimental to the nation as a whole.  Still  under selfish, self interest, politics .. Both sides guilty!  I'm agreeing with you on that point.

gbrk posted:
SirWasabi posted:

And Republicans didn't act the exact same way the past 8 years? Why do they get a free pass? What's the difference in the past 9 years, except for the switch of the party in control?

I'm not saying that for many did and all to the same avail which was to not help the other party.   I don't know if 100% of the Republicans worked together, I kind of doubt that because they can't seem to work together even though they are in the majority.  At least it can be said that the Democrats know how to wield their power and use it more to their advantage.  Still both parties tend to, at times, consider their own well being over that of the Nation and it's a sad testimony for both parties.  

The Nations founders built in mechanisms to slow down the legislative process and to insure that parties had to work together but only recently have I seen the caustic political polarization that exist and I believe that the origins of that go back to the 2000 George Bush election over Al Gore and the Florida hanging chads where many Democrats believe the election was stolen from Gore setting us on a path of no cooperation whatsoever.  The election of Obama gave the Democrats total control where they could correct all evils totally uncontested because they had the numbers in both houses of Congress that gave them veto proof and filibuster proof authority.  After 2008 - 2010 the Democrats should have no arguments about any evils that still exist especially ones that are harmful to the minority community because they had total power and control to correct all these evils and they either squandered that ability, didn't know how to use it, or didn't care enough to cure all the evils.  After 2010, yes, the Republicans did achieve enough wins to be obstructionist and then lobby the American people for the numbers to give them control so as they could implement the agenda they promised and talked about all through the Obama years.  Today they are proving that they can't act uniformly either, leaving their interest behind in the interest of the American people as a whole.

They have yet to fulfill the promise to abolish Obamacare (Democratic Healthcare) and it's possible that they will not fulfill their tax bill promises and if that happens then they (my opinion) will suffer a huge electoral defeat in 2018 and beyond so the Democrats fully (I believe) understand what they have to gain by being total obstructionist even if it is detrimental to the nation as a whole.  Still  under selfish, self interest, politics .. Both sides guilty!  I'm agreeing with you on that point.

THANK YOU. For a serious civil discussion!!! I very much so appreciate it!

SirWasabi posted:
Kraven posted:
SirWasabi posted:

Do you honestly think Roy Moore is going to overturn Roe vs. Wade?

It could happen, liberal dems overturned the Ten Commandments
 and legalized murder for the sake of financial gain/blood money and
a alternative form of birth control...  

Believe it or not, oldcrow, the 'ten commandments' weren't 'overturned'. I bet you can't walk and chew gum, at the same time.

Sorry SirThugbi, Ten Commandments in the US have been over
thrown/overturned, only the stupid can't comprehend that, much
less the difference between laws of man and those of God...

  

1. Did Roy Moore's campaign lie about Jones' stance on induced abortion? Well for starters, Kayla Moore, or her speechwriter, invented the term "full term abortion." Until then, Jones had been accused of supporting late term abortions. What "full term abortions" may mean is anyone's guess, but it falls into the category of "pre-born."

2. Overturned Ten Commandments? Yes, I can remember as a little girl police coming to our home on Saturdays and making us go to the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Uh, wait, no I can't. The Ten Commandments have never been a canonized law in the U.S. Even the adultery one--not all states have at one time had an anti-adultery statute on the books.

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