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13 “If any man takes a wife and zgoes in to her and then hates her 14 and accuses her of misconduct and brings a bad name upon her, saying, ‘I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her evidence of virginity,’ 15 then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate. 16 And the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man to marry, and he hates her; 17 and behold, he has accused her of misconduct, saying, “I did not find in your daughter evidence of virginity.” And yet this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloak before the elders of the city. 18 Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip2 him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels3 of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name upon a virgin4 of Israel. And she shall be his wife. aHe may not divorce her all his days. 20 But if the thing is true, that evidence of virginity was not found in the young woman, 21 then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and bthe men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has cdone an outrageous thing in Israel by whoring in her father’s house. dSo you shall purge the evil from your midst.

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Deuteronomy 22: 13-21

“If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then hates her  and accuses her of misconduct and brings a bad name upon her, saying, ‘I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her evidence of virginity,’  then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate.

 And the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man to marry, and he hates her;  and behold, he has accused her of misconduct, saying, “I did not find in your daughter evidence of virginity.” And yet this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloak before the elders of the city.

Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip  him,  and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name upon a virgin  of Israel. And she shall be his wife. He may not divorce her all his days. But if the thing is true, that evidence of virginity was not found in the young woman, 21 then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and bthe men of her city shall stone her to death with stones",

 

Amazing! If he lied about her being a virgin, he’s whipped & fined. Then he has to marry her & can never divorce her.  But…….if she’s really not a virgin, she’s killed.

So either way, she has to pay with her life. She has to die or live with the lying POS for the rest of her life.  Sounds like God hated women!

Originally Posted by alwilliams767:

Remember that these things were written thousands of years ago.  The world was a very different place back then.  The cultural Mores were very primitive, as was civilization.  Mankind has come a long way, but we still have a long way to go.

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Written thousands of years ago has what to do with what? Either you follow the bible or you don't. That cherry picking and cleaning up parts of the bible is ONE reason people don't pay the entire mess any attention. The world was a different place when the koran was written too, but we see the slaughter going on because of it. Not just slaughter, but the horrible things being done to women and children because of the koran.

 

Hi Best.  Thank you for your response.  It is nice to speak with you again.

I guess I am not so concerned with picking and choosing in my search for God.  For after all, what is religion really, but the communion between the individual and her or his creator?  Truth and wisdom can be found in many locations, some expected and others perhaps not so expected.

  

You are correct in your statement, I am definitely a cherry picker.  My feeling is that our current crop of holy books, being written thousands of years ago has everything to do with it.  Mankind is just entering his age of science, civilizations is just beginning to pick up after thousands of years of stagnation.  And mankind's religious philosophy lags behind even this entry into the dawn of real civilization.  

 

To me, it is only wise to "cherry pick" as you kindly refer to it.  I feel that all so called holy books are a best, combinations of the cream of what the best of the men and women of history have graced us with, along with some other things which, while they made sense during their day and age, have become outworn over the passing ages.  I feel that there is Truth in all the named religions, and also in those which are not named.  We all worship the same God, because I am sure you can agree with me that there is only one God, we just differ in our understanding of him.  

A thousand years ago our ancestors found it a great virtue to perform the same gruesome rituals which shock our sensibilities today.  A thousand years from to day, our descendants will shake their heads in wonder at some of the excesses of today, excesses which so many people take for granted as acceptable.  How will they feel about people sitting in a little room, flying machines of death, facelessly killing innocents half way around the world?  How will they feel about parents carelessly leaving loaded tools of death in the way of their innocent children?  How will they feel about a culture which fights for the unborn, then abandons them at birth?  How will they look at a people who worship their warriors, then abandon their veterans?  

Its all a matter of perspective, really.

 

Last edited by alwilliams767

How will they feel about people sitting in a little room, flying machines of death, facelessly killing innocents half way around the world?

Don't know and don't care. I doubt mankind will even be around.

 How will they feel about parents carelessly leaving loaded tools of death in the way of their innocent children?

Gun grabber argument. The same way I feel about it, punish them and that will stop. But of course liberals don't want anyone punished for anything.

 

 How will they feel about a culture which fights for the unborn, then abandons them at birth?

Who abandons them? Lefties had rather kill them than let them be adopted. We spend BILLONS on social programs. How will they feel to see that grown *** women and men were so irresponsible that they couldn't be bothered to be responsible about BC, and were not held accountable for the millions of babies slaughtered because they just wanted to get **** and nothing else mattered but that? I think THAT would bother a decent human.

 

 How will they look at a people who worship their warriors, then abandon their veterans?  

Its all a matter of perspective, really.

Who abandons their veterans? Again, the stinking lefties.

Last edited by Bestworking

I have finally decided that these forums, whether it be religion, politics or whatever is nothing but a site where certain ones over and over and over do nothing but complain, criticize, make fun of the ones that are sincere in what they say. Some are not going to listen to anyone else's opinion about nothing, some won't listen when you present them with proof. This has become the most useless site I know of. I have decided I am not going to continue to be a part of it. When you sense something has gone astray it is time to get out. I don't what I was thinking when I thought I might could make a difference in the way some viewed different subjects. I admit I now truly understand you can not fix stupid. It has helped me understand why our country is in such a mess, it's because the world is full of messed up individuals. I repent for ever being a part of it. God please forgive me.

 

Originally Posted by Old American:

I have finally decided that these forums, whether it be religion, politics or whatever is nothing but a site where certain ones over and over and over do nothing but complain, criticize, make fun of the ones that are sincere in what they say. Some are not going to listen to anyone else's opinion about nothing, some won't listen when you present them with proof. This has become the most useless site I know of. I have decided I am not going to continue to be a part of it. When you sense something has gone astray it is time to get out. I don't what I was thinking when I thought I might could make a difference in the way some viewed different subjects. I admit I now truly understand you can not fix stupid. It has helped me understand why our country is in such a mess, it's because the world is full of messed up individuals. I repent for ever being a part of it. God please forgive me. 

____

OA, I just recently said the same thing in another topic about how Politics & Religion has turned into fights/name calling & that I was thinking of leaving because I don't enjoy the forum like I used to.

You mentioned certain ones that do nothing but complain & criticize. What do you call what you just did in referring to me & others as Stupid & messed up individuals? Just because I may not agree with your views? 

Matthew says that whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire." Did you know both Raca & Fool carries the meaning of stupid? Doesn't sound to me like something a Christian should do.

 

I may not agree with your beliefs but I've never gotten angry at you for using your right to give your opinion. I feel very insulted that you think I'm a stupid & messed up individual just because I don't agree with you. I've never been to the point that I refuse to listen & to consider what someone says. I have never called you names, made fun of you, or put you down.

When I give my opinion it's never to make a difference in the way people view different subjects because adults are usually pretty well set in the way they believe. What we do on this forum is nothing more than a discussion of people's opinions.

I find myself feeling sorry for you in that you feel the need to insult people just because they may not agree with your views. Not a very Christian way to treat people.

My comments are in reference to your (Old American's) comment cited below.
 
I do empathize with you as does many others on the forum, I will say that I'll miss your presence and hope you would reconsider your decision.  Maybe take a short stint away, if needed, to return sometime later rather than a permanent exit.  Either way you will be missed and there are others on here that I'm sure you would find engaging in conversation or dialog so hopefully you will give it one more chance or at least decide not to make it a permanent exit and vow to return at some future point in time.
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Old American:

I have finally decided that these forums, whether it be religion, politics or whatever is nothing but a site where certain ones over and over and over do nothing but complain, criticize, make fun of the ones that are sincere in what they say. Some are not going to listen to anyone else's opinion about nothing, some won't listen when you present them with proof. This has become the most useless site I know of. I have decided I am not going to continue to be a part of it. When you sense something has gone astray it is time to get out. I don't what I was thinking when I thought I might could make a difference in the way some viewed different subjects. I admit I now truly understand you can not fix stupid. It has helped me understand why our country is in such a mess, it's because the world is full of messed up individuals. I repent for ever being a part of it. God please forgive me.

 

 

I can't, seeing as how I neither watch Fox or Rush. Seems to me that all the liberals do though. It is interesting too, that you call my opinions "angry", yet what would you call yours? Here's a hint for your future discussions,  "You're angry, you're bitter, you watch Fox, Rush, whoever else upsets you libs, you're hate filled, etc" goes the way the race card goes. It means nothing because it is always used at the wrong time for the wrong reason, and that reason is, someone didn't buy your bull and "play nice" about the liberals. Libs need to learn the lesson of what happens when they constantly "cry wolf".

Someone just made a good point. People should be angry. They should be fed up and outraged at what's going on in the country because of the left. Too, if you don't like opposing views, leave the forum and stop watching Fox, Rush and others that upset you because they give both sides, and stick with the left controlled media where, if you don't like something, they will change the wording, put their spin on it so it seems like it's something it isn't, and even edit/alter tapes to suit your view and the left's agenda, or just outright LIE.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I feel like I am fairly conversant with a woman's anatomy, but someone is going to have to explain to me how a woman's virginity can be displayed on a cloak. 

______________________________________________________________

There was a tradition that the first night after the marriage ceremony, a cloak would be spread upon the marriage bed.  When the bride's hymen breaks, blood flows onto the cloak.  A maid would bring out the cloak to the mother of the bride to show proof of virginity.  The cloak would be kept for future evidence.  One sees the tradition in other forms throughout history.  Sometimes its just a small piece of cloth.

 

In the new testament, the tradition of a husband declaring a bride not a virgin and to be put to death is mentioned.  Joseph told of Mary's pregnancy, but not the circumstances, said he would marry her and then put her by -- not demanding her death. 

 

God not only causes evil to happen within religion, but also outside of it.

 

Amo 3:6

  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

 

No doubt in my mind the Lord has done it. But why would God do that? Answer in this next verse.

 

 

Ecc 1:13

 

I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

 

Not everyone will be able to let this knowledge humble them at this time. Someday when we finally understand why such evil was necessary it will humble us.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by gdriggs:

God not only causes evil to happen within religion, but also outside of it.

 

Amo 3:6

  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

 

No doubt in my mind the Lord has done it. But why would God do that? Answer in this next verse.

 

 

Ecc 1:13

 

I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

 

Not everyone will be able to let this knowledge humble them at this time. Someday when we finally understand why such evil was necessary it will humble us.

 

____

 

"Evil," as used in the Bible, is not necessarily synonymous with wickedness or sinfulness. This link provides several useful commentaries on the use of the term in Amos 3:6:

 

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/amos/3-6.htm

 

 

I think I see what you mean Contendahh. Here is how I understand it.

 

When God uses evil it is always for an ultimately good reason or goal. God does not sin and is not wicked. Compared to humans who when we do evil things it is always for our own selfish reasons and usually just for the sake of being evil.

 

The kicker is when we sin in all the horrible ways that we do, God caused it. That doesn't mean I think He forced us to sin because He doesn't have to. It's simply a matter of He created us too weak to resist sin. In that way He is responsible and the cause, yet blameless because we willingly, wantonly and knowingly sin.

 

So when I see horrible things happen to people, especially women and children it can be hard knowing all is of God. I get mad, I get upset and break down sometimes. Sometimes in my shortsightedness I get bitter. Eventually God reminds me that it's only for a short while and there is nothing in this evil age that can compare to the unimaginable burden of glory God has in store for us throughout the ages.  

 

It seems pretty important that we have a good working knowledge of evil like God does, and the only way to do that is to experience it, as awful as it can be.

Originally Posted by gdriggs:

I think I see what you mean Contendahh. Here is how I understand it.

 

When God uses evil it is always for an ultimately good reason or goal. God does not sin and is not wicked. Compared to humans who when we do evil things it is always for our own selfish reasons and usually just for the sake of being evil.

 

The kicker is when we sin in all the horrible ways that we do, God caused it. That doesn't mean I think He forced us to sin because He doesn't have to. It's simply a matter of He created us too weak to resist sin. In that way He is responsible and the cause, yet blameless because we willingly, wantonly and knowingly sin.

 

So when I see horrible things happen to people, especially women and children it can be hard knowing all is of God. I get mad, I get upset and break down sometimes. Sometimes in my shortsightedness I get bitter. Eventually God reminds me that it's only for a short while and there is nothing in this evil age that can compare to the unimaginable burden of glory God has in store for us throughout the ages.  

 

It seems pretty important that we have a good working knowledge of evil like God does, and the only way to do that is to experience it, as awful as it can be.

================

Oh brother!!!!

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by gdriggs:

I think I see what you mean Contendahh. Here is how I understand it.

 

When God uses evil it is always for an ultimately good reason or goal. God does not sin and is not wicked. Compared to humans who when we do evil things it is always for our own selfish reasons and usually just for the sake of being evil.

 

The kicker is when we sin in all the horrible ways that we do, God caused it. That doesn't mean I think He forced us to sin because He doesn't have to. It's simply a matter of He created us too weak to resist sin. In that way He is responsible and the cause, yet blameless because we willingly, wantonly and knowingly sin.

 

So when I see horrible things happen to people, especially women and children it can be hard knowing all is of God. I get mad, I get upset and break down sometimes. Sometimes in my shortsightedness I get bitter. Eventually God reminds me that it's only for a short while and there is nothing in this evil age that can compare to the unimaginable burden of glory God has in store for us throughout the ages.  

 

It seems pretty important that we have a good working knowledge of evil like God does, and the only way to do that is to experience it, as awful as it can be.

================

Oh brother!!!!

 

Where art thou?

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