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quote:
Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Better than me,
You have attempted many times to shame me into a debate about the RESTORED church of JESUS CHRIS. you have tried to bait me and tried to start an argument with me about the doctrines of JESUS CHRIST'S church.

So, Dwight,

Does this ban apply to me, also?

I have posted a number of posts asking about your Mormon church -- and you have not responded to any. I have given you direct quotes from YOUR church leaders -- still, no response.

Can you or can you not -- respond to my posts?

I gather that you just want to come on the Religion Forum, flood it with your Mormon false teachings -- while trying to lure folks to your Blog for reading.

If you are honest. If you honestly believe what your church teaches -- then, let's have a two sided dialogue. If not, stay with you Blog in Cherokee and we will stay on the Religion Forum -- and all will be happy. Except, that is, your fellow citizens of Cherokee who are subjected to your false teachings and cult church.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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  • 0_-_CROSS-BIBLE_SOLA-FEDE_Outline
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Christian.

I should have said, not my denomination.


For some reason I thought you were Catholic.


buff,

b50 has said before she wasn't catlik.

I think BG said that the CoC was (copy of catholic) that true?


Gifted,

The COC having already been established; the Catholic Church ,with civil governing intentions, represented the COC which had it’s beginning in 33 and founded by Christ.

The Catholic Church has many more customs and practices of pomp and circumstance but believe the same things about Christ and his intentions for mankind.
One religion-Just as nuts as the other religion as far as I can tell. I remember some folks here telling me that not all christians are crazy....Ya sure coulda fooled me!

All that's left is to hook up Dwight's "JESUS CHRIS" with buffy's "anlelopes" and we oughtta have one helluva flying circus. Big Grin

Heh. "JESUS CHRIS." I like that. Kinda like "CHUCKE.CHEESE" only more biblically thumpier and only slightly less cheesy.
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
One religion-Just as nuts as the other religion as far as I can tell. I remember some folks here telling me that not all christians are crazy....Ya sure coulda fooled me!

All that's left is to hook up Dwight's "JESUS CHRIS" with buffy's "anlelopes" and we oughtta have one helluva flying circus. Big Grin

Heh. "JESUS CHRIS." I like that. Kinda like "CHUCKE.CHEESE" only more biblically thumpier and only slightly less cheesy.


Pup, I just saw on the news that 135,000 cases of concussion in teens were treated this year.

Did you play football? I wonder if there is a link to atheism.
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
One religion-Just as nuts as the other religion as far as I can tell. I remember some folks here telling me that not all christians are crazy....Ya sure coulda fooled me!

All that's left is to hook up Dwight's "JESUS CHRIS" with buffy's "anlelopes" and we oughtta have one helluva flying circus. Big Grin

Heh. "JESUS CHRIS." I like that. Kinda like "CHUCKE.CHEESE" only more biblically thumpier and only slightly less cheesy.


Pup, I just saw on the news that 135,000 cases of concussion in teens were treated this year.

Did you play football? I wonder if there is a link to atheism.


Nah. I never played football. Anybody who knocks heads for the helluvit needs....well...their head examined.

Most of the football jocks I knew back in CT were bagging my groceries by the time I left. Either that or they were drooling 'tards from too many impacts.

They DID believe in god, though. Go figure? More'n likely because someone smarter told them to. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, you keep defending buffalo when he said religion was made up. Then you attack others who actually practice a faith.

As for my statement, you did not read it correctly.

''No thanks, I prefer to read things on my own, and I don't need to pay some guy to 'tell' me what it says like Bill does.''

I prefer to read the Bible on my own, not 'pay' a preacher to tell me what it means, like Bill is always telling me what it means.

I was not implying the 'pay' part to you, just the 'tell me what it means' part.

Hi B,

Fair enough. Not a problem!

Off hand, I do not recall defending Buffalo in his statement about "religions" being man-made -- but I do agree with that statement.

Religions, all the world religions, are man-made, or man instigated. All have a "man founder" -- except Christianity which comes from God through the God/Man, Jesus Christ.

All other religions have holy books, bibles, traditions, and rituals created by men.

Only Christianity's Bible can lay claim to being the Holy Spirit inspired, Holy Spirit inerrant, literal Written Word of God.

So, yes -- there is Christianity -- and there are world religions. And, ne'er the twain shall meet.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


There you go b50m. COC is the christian religion.

Bro. Bill's is a manmade sort since he has invented such things as the trib, once saved etc...... The COC is the Christ invented Church.

Where the COC assembles one is not axed to list sins as you seem to employ as a condition to sit on a bench at an assemblage.

.....nor are you told what to give.

If you are looking to be found guilty and have your a55 rode about it the COC assemblage is not the place one needs attend. Wink


I have no idea what COC you attend buffy, but of the many that I have attended, 2 for quite a few years, I will have to disagree.

Not only were you expected to "go up" and repent your sins, but if you say were divorced then you could not teach a Sunday school class or be an elder, deacon, or serve the lords super.

We were told dancing was a sin, and going to the prom was a huge no no.

Absolutely no drinking, not even responsibly.

No gambling.

Women are not allowed to lead the congregation in prayer, songs, or speak at all during services.

As far as how much to give you are right. I don't think there was ever any amount you were SUPPOSED to give, but you were expected to give something.

No music in church.

Every sermon is fire and brimstone. And you have stated before and you are correct that they believe that all others are going to hell. Catholics for sure for what COC believe to be idol worship.

None of the Once Saved Always Saved that Bill tries to sell either.

Are you sure you are not Unitarian? Wink
Once more, C.O.B.R.A. displays his impotence to defend his chosen belief system! His latest cowardly evasion:

[QUOTE]Better than me,
You have attempted many times to shame me into a debate about the RESTORED church of JESUS CHRIS. you have tried to bait me and tried to start an argument with me about the doctrines of JESUS CHRIST'S church. Sorry, I don't work that way. If there is to be a sharing of knowledge with you of these truths, it will be on my grounds. I have lived long enough to recognize you, your personality and your tactics. Say what you wish about me and the RESTORED church of JESUS CHRIST, it won't change a thing. At this point in life you are only into battle. You and Bill Gray. You both attempt to suck me into a contentious battle but I won't. Ya see, your minds are made up that LDS is a cult full of false doctrine, so why should I waste time trying to convince you all of anything? I can't. So as far as you all are concerned, We are a cult, we have a different Jesus, although I don't understand that one at all. Better than me and Bill, argue with someone else . Those of you guenuinely interested in learning true doctrine, you know how to reach me. And better, I will know when you have a broken heart and a contrite spirit and are ready to listen with your spirit and hear the truths God is trying soon hard to get you to understand. When that time arrives and God tells me you are truly prepared, I will share a great feast for you and we will talk face to face.[QUOTE]

C.O.B.R.A., you say, "If there is to be a sharing of knowledge with you of these truths, it will be on my grounds."

That is precisely the problem, C.O.B.R.A. The"grounds" on which you wish to frame the discussion are your demands that I simply accept the sole path to (alleged) enlightenment and understanding that you will endorse. You don't want do discuss facts and doctrines. You work extremely hard to protect the teachings of the LDS church from being examined through universally-accepted methods of inquiry that are employed by intelligent people who disagree. Instead, you insist on your subjective, emotion-laden "James 1:5" method which, as we have already seen, you have misquoted and misrepresented to suit your strategy of avoiding honest and forthright discussion.

Now, listen up, C.O.B.R.A., because I am going to give you one more chance to attempt to make an honest and credible defense of LDS teaching. Other than Joseph Smith, there is no figure in LDS history more significant than Brigham Young. Like Smith, Young was, to the LDS Church, a "Prophet, Seer and Revelator," and claimed to be informed directly form God on spiritual matters. To show just how hugely LDS doctrine on the nature of God differs from what is actually taught in the Bible about God, I will submit for your consideration the very words of Prophet Brigham Young as recorded in the Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, pp. 50-51(For those unfamiliar with this source, be assured it is about as official an LDS source as there is). The words of Brigham Young:

"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner. When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Arch-angel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken--he is our Father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it and will know it sooner or later...the earth was organized by these three distinct characters, namely Elohim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost"

That is a pretty ambitious description of the Divinity, C.O.B.R.A., straight from Brigham Young. Brigham Young identifies God as Adam and further describes God as a polygamist. In Brigham Young's theology, Adam was not a created being--as the Bible plainly teaches--but was the Creator. Then along comes Michael, not as an archangel, but as one of the Godhead--again something entirely in conflict with the Bible.

C.O.B.R.A., I invite you to enter discussion on these unique doctrines of the Mormon Church. I invite you to do so in the spirit of that esteemed LDS figure, Apostle Orson Pratt. Once again, here is how the bold and courageous Pratt challenged the critics of his beliefs. Apostle Pratt invited those who challenged him to

"...convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds."

Once more, C.O.B.R.A., will you follow the noble standard set by Orson Pratt or will you continue to dodge and weave and slither and slide away, seeking refuge in that comfortable and convenient hidey-hole you have contrived to avoid meeting my challenge to the doctrines of your church?

My instincts tell me to bet on the latter, since you have consistently shown yourself incapable or unwilling to meet my challenge in open and honest discussion. But I would be pleasantly surprised to hear that you are ready to engage in a frank and adult discussion of these issues.
Better than me, you grossly missunderstand what you read and greatly miss inturpit what is before you. I will tell you like I told bill in the other discussion, a person that leans unto their OWN UNDERSTANDING will never be able to understand the things of God. No matter how hard I try to get you to see those things as they are ment to be understood, you will tell me I'm wrong. You are trying to understand calculus with only having the understanding of basic math. You CANNOT understand it, you don't have the basic understanding of spiritual things and you want a greater knowledge of much higher doctrines. You have no foundation to receive them upon. Answers, yes there are, but you are not prepared to receive them. The Spiritual things of God can only be understood by someone that has the Spirit of God in them. I'm sure that over the years you have argued with other LDS members about these same issues. You don't need any afermation from me. I will say that if you keep this attitude you will never understand them

Dwight

quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Once m ore, C.O.B.R.A. displays his impotence to defend his chosen belief system! His latest cowardly evasion:

[QUOTE]Better than me,
You have attempted many times to shame me into a debate about the RESTORED church of JESUS CHRIS. you have tried to bait me and tried to start an argument with me about the doctrines of JESUS CHRIST'S church. Sorry, I don't work that way. If there is to be a sharing of knowledge with you of these truths, it will be on my grounds. I have lived long enough to recognize you, your personality and your tactics. Say what you wish about me and the RESTORED church of JESUS CHRIST, it won't change a thing. At this point in life you are only into battle. You and Bill Gray. You both attempt to suck me into a contentious battle but I won't. Ya see, your minds are made up that LDS is a cult full of false doctrine, so why should I waste time trying to convince you all of anything? I can't. So as far as you all are concerned, We are a cult, we have a different Jesus, although I don't understand that one at all. Better than me and Bill, argue with someone else . Those of you guenuinely interested in learning true doctrine, you know how to reach me. And better, I will know when you have a broken heart and a contrite spirit and are ready to listen with your spirit and hear the truths God is trying soon hard to get you to understand. When that time arrives and God tells me you are truly prepared, I will share a great feast for you and we will talk face to face.[QUOTE]

C.O.B.R.A., you say, "If there is to be a sharing of knowledge with you of these truths, it will be on my grounds."

That is precisely the problem, C.O.B.R.A. The"grounds" on which you wish to frame the discussion are your demands that I simply accept the sole path to (alleged) enlightenment and understanding that you will endorse. You don't want do discuss facts and doctrines. You work extremely hard to protect the teachings of the LDS church from being examined through universally-accepted methods of inquiry that are employed by intelligent people who disagree. Instead, you insist on your subjective, emotion-laden "James 1:5" method which, as we have already seen, you have misquoted and misrepresented to suit your strategy of avoiding honest and forthright discussion.

Now, listen up, C.O.B.R.A., because I am going to give you one more chance to attempt to make an honest and credible defense of LDS teaching. Other than Joseph Smith, there is no figure in LDS history more significant than Brigham Young. Like Smith, Young was, to the LDS Church, a "Prophet, Seer and Revelator," and claimed to be informed directly form God on spiritual matters. To show just how hugely LDS doctrine on the nature of God differs from what is actually taught in the Bible about God, I will submit for your consideration the very words of Prophet Brigham Young as recorded in the Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, pp. 50-51(For those unfamiliar with this source, be assured it is about as official an LDS source as there is). The words of Brigham Young:

"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner. When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Arch-angel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken--he is our Father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it and will know it sooner or later...the earth was organized by these three distinct characters, namely Elohim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost"

That is a pretty ambitious description of the Divinity, C.O.B.R.A., straight from Brigham Young. Brigham Young identifies God as Adam and further describes God as a polygamist. In Brigham Young's theology, Adam was not a created being--as the Bible plainly teaches--but was the Creator. Then along comes Michael, not as an archangel, but as one of the Godhead--again something entirely in conflict with the Bible.

C.O.B.R.A., I invite you to enter discussion on these unique doctrines of the Mormon Church. I invite you to do so in the spirit of that esteemed LDS figure, Apostle Orson Pratt. Once again, here is how the bold and courageous Pratt challenged the critics of his beliefs. Apostle Pratt invited those who challenged him to

"...convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds."

Once more, C.O.B.R.A., will you follow the noble standard set by Orson Pratt or will you continue to dodge and weave and slither and slide away, seeking refuge in that comfortable and convenient hidey-hole you have contrived to avoid meeting my challenge to the doctrines of your church?

My instincts tell me to bet on the latter, since you have consistently shown yourself incapable or unwilling to meet my challenge in open and honest discussion. But I would be pleasantly surprised to hear that you are ready to engage in a frank and adult discussion of these issues.
quote:
Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Better than me, you grossly missunderstand (sic) what you read and greatly miss inturpit (sic) what is before you. I will tell you like I told bill in the other discussion, a person that leans unto their OWN UNDERSTANDING will never be able to understand the things of God. No matter how hard I try to get you to see those things as they are ment (sic) to be understood, you will tell me I'm wrong. You are trying to understand calculus with only having the understanding of basic math. You CANNOT understand it, you don't have the basic understanding of spiritual things and you want a greater knowledge of much higher doctrines. You have no foundation to receive them upon. Answers, yes there are, but you are not prepared to receive them. The Spiritual things of God can only be understood by someone that has the Spirit of God in them. I'm sure that over the years you have argued with other LDS members about these same issues. You don't need any afermation (sic) from me. I will say that if you keep this attitude you will never understand them Dwight

STILL MORE "SMOKE SCREEN" -- NO ANSWERS! --- DOES THIS MEAN THAT LDS (REFORM OR OTHERWISE) IS A CULT CHURCH?

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quote:
Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.: Bill, your cute little tweety bird says stay away from me satan implying I am satan yet you say, talk to me. Ya can't have it both ways, the two master thing, you know. Also, you can assume whatever you want, and by the way according to the definition of CULT, all churches are cults, go look it up. Dwight

MORE "SMOKE SCREEN"! - AFRAID OF A SERIOUS DIALOGUE?

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quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, you keep defending buffalo when he said religion was made up. Then you attack others who actually practice a faith.

As for my statement, you did not read it correctly.

''No thanks, I prefer to read things on my own, and I don't need to pay some guy to 'tell' me what it says like Bill does.''

I prefer to read the Bible on my own, not 'pay' a preacher to tell me what it means, like Bill is always telling me what it means.

I was not implying the 'pay' part to you, just the 'tell me what it means' part.

Hi B,

Fair enough. Not a problem!

Off hand, I do not recall defending Buffalo in his statement about "religions" being man-made -- but I do agree with that statement.

Religions, all the world religions, are man-made, or man instigated. All have a "man founder" -- except Christianity which comes from God through the God/Man, Jesus Christ.

All other religions have holy books, bibles, traditions, and rituals created by men.

Only Christianity's Bible can lay claim to being the Holy Spirit inspired, Holy Spirit inerrant, literal Written Word of God.

So, yes -- there is Christianity -- and there are world religions. And, ne'er the twain shall meet.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


There you go b50m. COC is the christian religion.

Bro. Bill's is a manmade sort since he has invented such things as the trib, once saved etc...... The COC is the Christ invented Church.

Where the COC assembles one is not axed to list sins as you seem to employ as a condition to sit on a bench at an assemblage.

.....nor are you told what to give.

If you are looking to be found guilty and have your a55 rode about it the COC assemblage is not the place one needs attend. Wink


I have no idea what COC you attend buffy, but of the many that I have attended, 2 for quite a few years, I will have to disagree.

Not only were you expected to "go up" and repent your sins, but if you say were divorced then you could not teach a Sunday school class or be an elder, deacon, or serve the lords super.

We were told dancing was a sin, and going to the prom was a huge no no.

Absolutely no drinking, not even responsibly.

No gambling.

Women are not allowed to lead the congregation in prayer, songs, or speak at all during services.

As far as how much to give you are right. I don't think there was ever any amount you were SUPPOSED to give, but you were expected to give something.

No music in church.

Every sermon is fire and brimstone. And you have stated before and you are correct that they believe that all others are going to hell. Catholics for sure for what COC believe to be idol worship.

None of the Once Saved Always Saved that Bill tries to sell either.

Are you sure you are not Unitarian? Wink


Jank dearest,

Perhaps the quality of your sins required the assemblage to opereate outside it's normal constraints.
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
[
There you go b50m. COC is the christian religion.

Bro. Bill's is a manmade sort since he has invented such things as the trib, once saved etc...... The COC is the Christ invented Church.



buff,

The CoC is a protestant christian church. Protestantism started appox. 1517AD.

Mr. Campbell started the CoC in the year 1906.

The christian church started appox. 33AD. Pentecost.

The christian church is Jesus Christ founded.

Between 33AD Pentecost and today, we have made fools of ourselves in the
eyes of God about religion.
C.O.B.R.A, once more, slithers away from any real prospects for intelligent discussion"

[QUOTE]Better than me, you grossly missunderstand what you read and greatly miss inturpit what is before you. I will tell you like I told bill in the other discussion, a person that leans unto their OWN UNDERSTANDING will never be able to understand the things of God. No matter how hard I try to get you to see those things as they are ment to be understood, you will tell me I'm wrong. You are trying to understand calculus with only having the understanding of basic math. You CANNOT understand it, you don't have the basic understanding of spiritual things and you want a greater knowledge of much higher doctrines. You have no foundation to receive them upon. Answers, yes there are, but you are not prepared to receive them. The Spiritual things of God can only be understood by someone that has the Spirit of God in them. I'm sure that over the years you have argued with other LDS members about these same issues. You don't need any afermation from me. I will say that if you keep this attitude you will never understand them [QUOTE]

Let's distill this thing down to its bare essence, C.O.B.R.A. You refuse to discuss these controversial LDS doctrines with me because I will not first avail myself of the means of enlightenment to which you subscribe. Those means consist of your praying to God to let His Holy Spirit confirm to you what you believe about Joseph Smith as the Prophet of God and the LDS Church as the one true church. Now, supposedly, if I go to God with such a request, the Holy Ghost will confirm those same things to me. Supposing that happens, C.O.B.R.A., there will then be no differences between you and me concerning all these LDS doctrines and we will have no basis for discussion, having reached such sweet concord.

IT COULD SCARCELY GET ANY MORE RIDICULOUS THAN THAT, C.O.B.R.A.! It is manifest to me and to anyone reading our exchange that you are an inept, cowardly apologist for your cultic beliefs. No--I must take back part of that. You are indeed inept and cowardly, but you are no apologist. A true "apologist" is "one who argues in defense of a cause, policy, institution or the like; specif. one who argues in defense of Christianity." (Mirriam-Webster New Collegiate Dictionary, 2nd ed.) You don't fit THAT definition, C.O.B.R.A. You have not submitted anything at all of substance in defense of the several items of LDS doctrine that I have described and documented to you.

So just rest, if you must, in your smug assurance that there is no need for you to do anything to defend your beliefs and that you have no duty to others than to demand that they seek confirmation from the Holy Spirit that the LDS Church is the one true church and that Joseph Smith was a prophet sent from God. But I would commend to you the words of that powerful apologist, the Apostle Peter, at I Peter 3:15:

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear...."

Peter was not the coward that you have shown yourself to be, C.O.B.R.A., and neither was Orson Pratt.

How has the defense of the LDS Church so soon degenerated to the cheap cop-out non-defense you cravenly embrace?

Pitiful!
Last edited by beternU
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
[
There you go b50m. COC is the christian religion.

Bro. Bill's is a manmade sort since he has invented such things as the trib, once saved etc...... The COC is the Christ invented Church.



buff,

The CoC is a protestant christian church. Protestantism started appox. 1517AD.

Mr. Campbell started the CoC in the year 1906.

The christian church started appox. 33AD. Pentecost.

The christian church is Jesus Christ founded.

Between 33AD Pentecost and today, we have made fools of ourselves in the
eyes of God about religion.


Nicely put, gifted.
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
[
There you go b50m. COC is the christian religion.

Bro. Bill's is a manmade sort since he has invented such things as the trib, once saved etc...... The COC is the Christ invented Church.



buff,

The CoC is a protestant christian church. Protestantism started appox. 1517AD.

Mr. Campbell started the CoC in the year 1906.

The christian church started appox. 33AD. Pentecost.

The christian church is Jesus Christ founded.

Between 33AD Pentecost and today, we have made fools of ourselves in the
eyes of God about religion.


While this is undeniably true, both Bill and Buffalo claim that their particular sect was created by Jesus, Himself. It is this kind of logic that leads to ridiculous beliefs such as the earth is only 6000 years old, the earth is the center of the universe and everything spins around it, and that a talking snake should be taken as a literal idea.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
While this is undeniably true, both Bill and Buffalo claim that their particular sect was created by Jesus, Himself. It is this kind of logic that leads to ridiculous beliefs such as the earth is only 6000 years old, the earth is the center of the universe and everything spins around it, and that a talking snake should be taken as a literal idea.

Hi Crusty,

Once again, either you have misread what I have written -- or, you do not read my posts before you respond to them. Neither my Baptist church nor Buffalo's Church of Christ was around in the Christian church which began on the Day of Pentecost in 33 AD. The 33 AD church was the pure Christian church -- and, over the last 2000+ years man has often messed it up. I would say that the Baptist church is probably the closest to the 33 AD church that we have today -- but, it still has strayed far from the original.

Yes, we have differences between the various denominational churches; and these differ from the non-denominational churches. Why all the differences? Well, basically, most of it comes from men interpreting what God has written. God knew and knows exactly what He has written. But, men will say, as did Satan in the Garden of Eden, "Did God really say that?" And, based upon that -- off we go to the races. And, viola! -- a new church or new denomination is born.

In most cases, the differences of opinion could have been tolerated and still have the same church. For example, nine or ten years ago, our newly planted church had three elders -- me and two other men. One of the other elders and I used to talk for hours on the telephone on Saturdays. Our church and I are PreTrib/PreMillennial believers. But, somehow the other elder, whose family was one of the first in the newly planted church -- was an Amillennial believer. He and I discussed the PreMillennial versus Amillennial views for hours. He never changed my mind and I never changed his mind -- but, we remained Friends, we remained elders of the same church -- and our families worshiped together in harmony.

And, as I have often written, as long as a person or a church believes and teaches the Essential Christian Doctrines or Beliefs -- that person and that church are Christian. Two Christians or two Christian churches can differ on the Non-Essential Beliefs -- for these do not affect one's salvation. But, on the Essential Christian Beliefs -- we must be in unity; there can be no compromise.

So, Crusty, no -- neither my Baptist nor Buffalo's Church of Christ has it ALL right on target. But, as long as we stay on target on the Essentials -- we can have fun discussing the Non-Essentials. And, in doing this, we can grow and mature in our knowledge of God's Word -- and we can help our Friends grow also in Christ.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
While this is undeniably true, both Bill and Buffalo claim that their particular sect was created by Jesus, Himself. It is this kind of logic that leads to ridiculous beliefs such as the earth is only 6000 years old, the earth is the center of the universe and everything spins around it, and that a talking snake should be taken as a literal idea.

Hi Crusty,

Once again, either you have misread what I have written -- or, you do not read my posts before you respond to them. Neither my Baptist church nor Buffalo's Church of Christ was around in the Christian church which began on the Day of Pentecost in 33 AD. The 33 AD church was the pure Christian church -- and, over the last 2000+ years man has often messed it up. I would say that the Baptist church is probably the closest to the 33 AD church that we have today -- but, it still has strayed far from the original.

Yes, we have differences between the various denominational churches; and these differ from the non-denominational churches. Why all the differences? Well, basically, most of it comes from men interpreting what God has written. God knew and knows exactly what He has written. But, men will say, as did Satan in the Garden of Eden, "Did God really say that?" And, based upon that -- off we go to the races. And, viola! -- a new church or new denomination is born.

In most cases, the differences of opinion could have been tolerated and still have the same church. For example, nine or ten years ago, our newly planted church had three elders -- me and two other men. One of the other elders and I used to talk for hours on the telephone on Saturdays. Our church and I are PreTrib/PreMillennial believers. But, somehow the other elder, whose family was one of the first in the newly planted church -- was an Amillennial believer. He and I discussed the PreMillennial versus Amillennial views for hours. He never changed my mind and I never changed his mind -- but, we remained Friends, we remained elders of the same church -- and our families worshiped together in harmony.

And, as I have often written, as long as a person or a church believes and teaches the Essential Christian Doctrines or Beliefs -- that person and that church are Christian. Two Christians or two Christian churches can differ on the Non-Essential Beliefs -- for these do not affect one's salvation. But, on the Essential Christian Beliefs -- we must be in unity; there can be no compromise.

So, Crusty, no -- neither my Baptist nor Buffalo's Church of Christ has it ALL right on target. But, as long as we stay on target on the Essentials -- we can have fun discussing the Non-Essentials. And, in doing this, we can grow and mature in our knowledge of God's Word -- and we can help our Friends grow also in Christ.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I read or skim most of your posts. That is why I stay confused about what you say.
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hardly even skim them anymore Crusty. they all say the same thing.
You're wrong. I'm right.
You're an idiot. I'm right.
False teaching. I'm right.

Hi Leo,

You seem to be the type also who will not read a post -- but, always seem to want to comment on the posts you have not read.

First, you will never find anywhere that I have called anyone an idiot.

Second, if I say someone is wrong -- I will compare their belief with the Bible, not Bill Gray. Yes, many times I have told folks they are Biblically wrong. When I do this -- if you can, show me where I err.

Do I refute false teachings? You bet your bippy! And, as long as God wills, I will continue doing that.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bro. Bill, you are my hero an I can tell you I ‘fly’ over your long posts.

They are too long friend. I’m not that interested in knowing the truth if it means having to read a long post of some mans opinion.

Cut them to short and to some point.

If someone has to have Jesus’ teachings explained ………well I think they are pretty simple.

The dogma you assign to the Bible is definitely missing the point.

I’m still your buddy.
Bill, see my post in the LDS thread. I am only saying you are wrong in your method of rebuttal. Though I disagree with you, I will not dismiss you offhandedly and tell you you are wrong. I will tell you I disagree and cannot accept your quotes from the Bible as proof. I am open minded enough to admit I could be wrong,but I have FAITH that I am not.

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