Bogusity

Some Christians I know & some on this forum could learn from the humanist.

"As humanists, we have to forgive other people for their trespassing," Culbertson-Faegre said. "I personally accept the apology. Forgiveness is very important to humanism."

Hi O:

While I agree with you that religion is under siege in this country, I also agree with the athiests here that it has been a long time coming and is due, in no small measure to the long-term intolerance of the religionists and the pent up resentment of the rest of society.

While I am sure you fully understand this, I will mention that the best way to preach your religion to others is to live it. 

No one can argue with a person who lives a life of loving service to his fellows.  And no rebutal is needed for such a life.

Jesus taught his followers that we are all children of a common Father.  And that we should manifiest our love for our fellows with deeds rather than words.

Now, I know you already know this, and that your life is, no doubt a shining example of love and goodwill towards your fellows. 

But others here might want to listen...

I try to live my life as Jesus taught his followers.

I often get asked why I am so consistantly cheerful, unfailingly helpful and unflagingly dependable.  But I do not ever say (in the real world).  I only dare to speak out here in the hidden shadows of the virtual world.

I prefer to keep it a mystery out there.

=====================================

semi folks learnt that from consulting the teachings of Jesus many years before this person who obviously integrates Bible teachings into Humanism. Thats a good thing.

____________________________

That's a good thing? Does that go for all Humanist or just some?

@ Lexum- Humanism is to religion as Lexum is to mental health - Ain't got none. If an Atheist wanted to fit in, they'd go to church with the rest of the herd - many do. If an Atheists wanted to be more church like, they'd go to freakin church with the rest of teh herd.  If an Atheist wants to be charitable it's to be charitable for it's own sake, and not for fear of judgement, or losing acceptance.

Gnu,

You again?

Why did the gnu cross the river?

It didn’t.

Why?

The river was teeming with crocodiles.

Why did it try?

Don’t know. It’s just the way things are always done by gnus.

Stupid to me.

Me too.

What the shop owner did was not illegal, Ono has her argument all wrong because whether or not they are a religion is neither here nor there. The whole refusal of service seems to be over the offensive and hateful tone of the rally. The guy is under no obligation to serve anyone and it doesn't seem that he refused to serve anyone because they were atheist, believed in the spaghetti monster, buddha, or anything other matter of their religion or lack thereof and that his reason for refusing service was the equal of having a group of people saying hateful things about your mother and then showing up to say "scoop me some ice cream or I'll sue you" and it just doesn't work that way. Not to be redundant but except for the part where the group as a whole would very likely stop short of violence, there is no difference in his refusal of service to the rally participants than for a Catholic, Jewish person, or other minority to refuse service to a neo **** group or a kkk rally. The simple fact is that the participants at the skepticon rally were just generally being unpleasant and a lack of pleasantness is enough by any standard for refusing service. 

With the above said, from a business standpoint the guy doesn't seem to be very bright. I would have been angry too but emotion has no place in making business decisions, I think he would have been wise to keep selling them ice cream.

Some facts:

The owner didn't post the sign as a result of any Skepticon attendees being rude or unruly in his store. By the owner's admission, all the Skepticon attendees who went to his business were polite and non-disruptive.

Also, Skepticon is not a rally or outdoors. It's a convention, indoors. The business in question is a block away from the theatre where Skepticon was held this year.

So what triggered the bigoted banning of all Skepticon attendees? According to the owner, he went to see an event at the (free) convention and was offended by the performance of Brother Sam Singleton, a mock revival-type evangelist.

In summary, not one skeptic went to the owner or disrupted his business in any way. He instead went to the skeptic's convention, was surprised, took offense and his Christian response was to publicly punish people for expressing a viewpoint in a way that he dislikes (even though they were doing it on their own time, a block away, in their own place, inside a theatre) by choosing to deny all 1000+ convention attendees from entering his business.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR.

For damage control, after an immediate loss of business during the convention weekend and a 60% drop in online ratings, the owner issued an apology. BTW, other businesses in town had some of their best business for the year during Skepticon. One place in particular, Farmers' Gastropub, had their single best night ever thanks to the atheist presence at their place during the convention.

LEARN FROM THIS.

In the past, this minor but illegal incident would have gone largely unnoticed and uncontested but applauded by the vocal majority (as it has been here by some). But now, our numbers, our allies and our influence has grown to a degree that we can say to anti-atheist bigots everywhere that if you are going to engage in morally unacceptable or illegal behavior against us, the consequence will not be good for you and your kind.

Everyone deserves to be free from bigotry. Even atheists.

What's also worth noting is that the store owner says in his apology that he expected Skepticon to be about (denying) UFOs. Which implies that he would have been just fine with skepticism about stuff like that (especially since his business advertised with and was promoted at the convention). He probably would have taken no offense to people mocking or criticizing UFO or Bigfoot buffs and their whacky beliefs. But when he experienced the spotlight of skepticism was instead turned on his own "special" beliefs... well, that's just wasn't funny anymore.

Which reminds me of something that BG clearly demonstrates again in this thread. His demand that his beliefs deserve special protection from criticism or even mockery. Yet oddly, he's the first to mock and criticize other's ideas and beliefs. You just can't use the word hypocrite enough when describing Bill Gray's actions. Unfortunately, others here are not far behind him in their demands for exclusive protections. Christians are just too accustomed to taking special privilege and thinking nothing of it. As a result, we get thin-skinned theists who's only response to atheist views and criticism is to try to silence, exclude and punish us.

As was seen in the recent dust up over PA prayers at Brooks, Christianity cannot defend legally, morally or philosophically its position of privileged illegal behaviors, so they rely on societal pressure and bullying of individuals in the hope that they'll stop asking for equality.

Demand it all you want, but there is no right against being offended for anyone. Even if you're a Christian.

==============================================

............so adot, your beef is actually with the PA system.

And the point of your post is? Are you implying that just because someone is an atheist that a Christian business must serve them during their rallies where they're spewing hate towards Christians? If the last question is true , would you also be implying that during a kkk convention that a minority business owner would be breaking the law by not welcoming the klan members? How is one different from the other? Are you actually implying that the shop owner broke the law?

_________________________

They do?

==
The point of my post is in my post. It's very simply stated and everyone here should be smart enough to understand it if they want. I propose that you may be in a bad way if it's only you and Rammn who don't get it.

The claims that you were and still are making about the bigotry in question are either flat wrong or mistaken. Businesses cannot refuse to serve an ENTIRE group of people based on race, sex, national origin, or religion. To do so against atheists is indeed illegal since we are afforded by US law the same constitutional protections as religionists. That you or Ono or whoever don't like it, doesn't change that fact one bit.

I urge you and others to learn from these recent lessons (there are more to come) and to be mindful and informed before opening thine yap.

==
If I may, yes they do, unfortunately. I personally know of one locally and several other locals who used to do the same for years and years before finally stopping. It's these people who may be the most important target of our message.

_____________________________

But if their an Atheist, why go to church? Would it be the fear of hurting family/friends if they "came out of the closet"?

______________________________

Yes Semi. Also the stigma and discrimination they will face in our community. As many of us have said here in the past and then it was seen during the Brooks prayer witch hunt, we atheist face not only financial and social threats from Christians, but physical ones as well. It is really hard to stand up and say you do not believe in God. I have known people who continued to go to church because they knew that their spouse would divorce them if they told the truth. It's really sad how many people have to live a lie just to be accepted. That is why many of us are here on this forum. To let those that feel as we do know they are not alone and that there are people who support them.

Bfred you almost have it right...it is more like a bigoted kkk or neo-**** business owner refusing to serve a minority or a Jew.

Atheist have endured and continue to endure hate speech from Christians. We have been called evil and immoral. We have been told we will receive and deserve eternal torture. We have been called un-American and told to leave this country. Our businesses and employment are threatened by Christians. So when a convention like Skepticon comes to town it is not to stir up hate, it is to support and further logic and reason. If this business owner took offense to that then basically what he is saying is that he does not think atheist have the right to speak up and point out what they disagree with. As others have pointed out he went to the convention, the convention did not come to him. It would be like me going to a church and then getting p i s sed off at the believers for their "hate speech" towards non-believers. Also no one attacked him personally. I have heard Sam Singleton and his mock sermons are satire with truth. Pointing out the flaws and non-sense in religion is not an attack on those that believe. It is a logical observation of the system itself.

The delusion of Christian persecution is growing far and wide here in America. If (and I don't think it would or could ever happen) Christians are told they can no longer worship or go to church, we atheist will be their biggest supporters and fight side by side with them to make sure they retain that right. Ya know why? Because we want to have the same freedoms to NOT worship and by insuring you all keep your rights we enjoy the same rights to not participate or believe. Discrimination based on belief or non belief should never be allowed in this country.

Didn't we quit the "I know you are but what am I" game in pre school? 

I simply posted facts and all you can come back with is to say that the hateful speech towards Christians is not a personal attack against individual Christians? Are you for real? 

Now for the claimed persecution by the atheists:

I have heard it all, I have heard some claim that the first thing that everyone asks them is where they go to Church (cough, cough, bull crap). I have lived in the south most of my life and I would be able to count the number of times that I have been asked that on one hand and most people that I am acquainted with have no clue whether or not I am a Christian unless something about religion comes up in conversation. Most people in the Shoals area don't attend Church regularly so how is it fitting in to go?

I've heard people on here claim that they have been threatened with physical harm for simply not believing in God? I know there's a one in every crowd that might make stupid threats and say some outrageous crap but I doubt that has happened as the atheists here claim. It would be a very rare thing that anyone's employment is threatened for not believing in God, there might be some people who would do such a thing but if they would want to fire someone over their religion then they are neither good Christians or good business people. 

There probably are a few rednecks who would claim it's un-American to not be a Christian but noone should ever take seriously or be surprised at the opinions of the redneck. If your business is not doing well then I would doubt that it has anything to do with your religion but when people think of your business then the first thing that should stick out is what your business offers, if the religion of the owner is what sticks out first then the product probably ain't worth much. It's also not generally a wise thing to mix your business with your religion unless you own something along the line of a Christian bookstore. The only business that I can think of that does well and expresses the religion of the owner is Newberns's but if the food wasn't so darn good there then I doubt they would do well with it either.

____________________________________

Bfred,

Either you are unaware or have conveniently forgotten the recent Brooks prayer issue. I am not talking about 1 or 2 stupid Christians, there were thousands of them ranting about boycotting any business that was owned by an atheist or employed any atheist. They went so far as to get the member list of the local Humanist group and start naming names of people. They said we should all leave this country. They called us evil and yes, they made physical threats. They harassed and tormented the man (and his family)  that filed the complaint to the point of him having to leave town for a few days. Its real and it happens here every day. If no one has ask you what church you attend then you must not get out much.

As for this.....

Didn't we quit the "I know you are but what am I" game in pre school? 

I simply posted facts and all you can come back with is to say that the hateful speech towards Christians is not a personal attack against individual Christians? Are you for real?

I was serious in my statement above. You had stated you opinion (not fact) that it would be like a minority refusing to serve a kkk member in their business. In my opinion you have it backwards. We are the minority. The business owner in this case was discriminating based on his religious beliefs.

A personal attack is like what I said before about the local Christian lynch mob that wanted to ruin atheist businesses and get atheist fired from jobs. Also the threats of physical harm. Disagreeing with someones belief in the supernatural is not in any stretch of the imagination a personal attack.

Apparently only atheists are asked about religion.  I’m like bfred I could count the times on one hand I’ve been asked.

I have had the occasional visitor at the door passing out something but they never ask.

I would suggest a sign out in front yard telling Christians go away. If you own a business put on the front door a sign announcing your dilemma.

BFred, you NAILED it!!

___________________________

No, not only the Atheist. I'm not an Atheist but I am a strong doubter. I can't count the times that people, at a funeral, family reunion, high school reunion, someone I haven't seen/heard from in years, people that go door to door asking that you visit their church, always asked "the question"......where are you attending church? We would love to have you at ours. It never fails. If you're honest & say you don't attend church, the next question is "Why not?" . If you're even more honest & say that you're not sure about any of it, they look at you like you're Satan himself about to bite their head off.

I hear people everyday say they will pray for this one or that one or ask prayer for a sick child or spouse, & those people never give a thought to how they live in their daily lives. It amazes me the nerve some people have.

As for the sign, I just tell people I don't want to hear it.

Exaggerate much?

______________________

Did you read ALL of the remarks just on Facebook alone?

I read some of what was on Facebook, there were a handful of people on the Christian side who made some really idiotic remarks, I saw one who went on the offensive toward a local computer store and was trying to incite a boycott but the next day he removed his posts on the subject and apologized.

For DarkA to have claimed "thousands" or even hundreds, dozens, and likely even to have claimed a dozen were on there trying to start a boycott is an exaggeration that needs correcting.

__

Please!  "they're," not "their"! Angels should be literate!

_____________________________

Oh, please.....Kiss my grits!! I've read a couple of post where you've misspelled or put the wrong word in the wrong place. I haven't called it to your attention because that is so dumb & rude when someone does that.

How would you know anything about an angel, seen any around lately?

Dark, thousands on Brooks Will Pray wanted to boycott an atheist? There are less than 3.4K members on this site, that would mean well over half commented on this issue--I hope non-issue. I don't visit the site often and don't agree with them, so I'm not a member, but since I was visiting at least once a day during the early days of their site, I think I would have noticed if "thousands" had commented on any one sub-topic.

Thousands? Hundreds? Tens?

What's the difference?

Bigotry is bigotry-no matter how many are involved.

Around here, it seems that atheists are the new 'negroes.' (for lack of a better word)

bad choice of words pup. how about 'yankee'

Use whatever word you want. (insert name of opressed minority here)  It's still the same bigot behavior.  Same mob mentality only this time it's religious instead of racial.

Pup you stuck your brogan in your mouth. It’s becoming more evident we can’t do you any good down here in the south. We can wait you out though if we chose make no mistake about it. Sooner or later you will give up that play acting and get a hair cut.

go to church

Ono, I’m gonna go pick him up some day and take him to meet some of his neighbors. hahaha

Ah....Life's too short to waste a minute of it being plain and conventional.

That's no fun. 

You call it a 'whammy.'  I call it 'an adventure.'

'Sides...Ya already got enough guys around here that either look like Opie Taylor or headshaved prison-gang wannabes.

*whistling the "Andy Griffith Show" theme*

______________________

Did you go to church today?

Pup are you sayin you look like the choir boy on that motorcicle terrorizing old folk at redlites?

The difference is that she claimed that "thousands" of people had done something wrong when it just simply never happened.