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budsfarm posted:

 

LAST YEAR?

The CFHC  [as Handgun Control, Inc was formally known] ceased as a certified non-profit organization in 1978.

http://findingaids.library.uic.../ead/rjd1/CFHCf.html

Box Score - no runs, no hits, 1 error.

 

Not so fast there, budsfarm,:

"Founded 1974 by Mark Borinsky as the National Council to Control Handguns. It is now known as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence."

http://www.nndb.com/org/834/000115489/

 BESIDES--the poster made no claim as to its date.

 

Last edited by Contendahh
Stanky posted:

And medical errors kill about 250,000 every year according to some researchers. I guess doctors should be banned first.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com...th-in-united-states/

___

Typical nonsensical winger drivel!  So if there are "only" 9 or 10 thousand gun deaths per year in the U.S.from handguns (and that range continues today), then it ain't so bad, since more people die from other causes.  Jackassical reasoning there, Stanky!

Contendahh posted:
budsfarm posted:

 

LAST YEAR?

The CFHC  [as Handgun Control, Inc was formally known] ceased as a certified non-profit organization in 1978.

http://findingaids.library.uic.../ead/rjd1/CFHCf.html

Box Score - no runs, no hits, 1 error.

 

It does not say that they ceased absolutely, just that they ceased to operate in that status.

Well then if they still exist, you should have no problem providing a link to their current status.

 

 

Contendahh posted:
budsfarm posted:

 

LAST YEAR?

The CFHC  [as Handgun Control, Inc was formally known] ceased as a certified non-profit organization in 1978.

http://findingaids.library.uic.../ead/rjd1/CFHCf.html

Box Score - no runs, no hits, 1 error.

 

Not so fast there, budsfarm,:

"Founded 1974 by Mark Borinsky as the National Council to Control Handguns. It is now known as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence."

http://www.nndb.com/org/834/000115489/

 BESIDES--the poster made no claim as to its date.

 

Are you so desperate to defect you refer to yourself in the third person?  The poster is you.  Or maybe you've forgotten.  After all, its been 8 hours.

Of course you made no claim to its date.  You had not a clue either to its origin nor date of publication.  You once again failed to vet your own source.

Box score - no runs, no hits, 3 errors.

 

 

Swing batter!

And should come as no surprise to you when checking out CFHC I ran across your links.  It should have raised a red flag to you why I didn't quote them.

One link says it was founded in 1974.  The other says 1980.  One link says first on the list was Doug Bailey, the other Michael D. Barnes.

Get back to me when the poster gets his story straight.

Box score - no runs, no hits, 5 errors.

Rosie O'Donnell.  LOL.  That should have counted as the sixth error, but I know how you libber revere her.  That counts as a "balk."

Last edited by budsfarm

Some of these left wing groups exist mostly on paper.  They rise and fall and come back with new titles,  A few hundred have been traced to the same address.  The communist fronts used this tactic in their hay day -- guess their students still use the old tactics.

One of my favorite was the Youth Against War -- a true Stalinist front in the 1930s when the Soviets allied with the Germans.  The front agitated against the US getting involved with the German aggression in Europe.  After Operation Barbarossa, when Germany attacked the USSR, suddenly the front became Youth Against War and Fascism -- full on for attacking the Germans. 

The group reappeared during the demonstrations against the Vietnam war -- only LBJ and Nixon were now the fascists.  Even saw some of their brochures at UNA.

Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

And medical errors kill about 250,000 every year according to some researchers. I guess doctors should be banned first.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com...th-in-united-states/

___

Typical nonsensical winger drivel!  So if there are "only" 9 or 10 thousand gun deaths per year in the U.S.from handguns (and that range continues today), then it ain't so bad, since more people die from other causes.  Jackassical reasoning there, Stanky!

Pardon me, but firearms are used more often than those numbers indicate to save lives. The low estimate is between 55,000-80,000 times a year to 4,700,000 at the high end.

Lower-end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, which estimated approximately 55,000–80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[7] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2][10]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

It would take an evil moronical phoo to say many of those folks would be better off dead to playcate an old hoplophobic crank.

Stanky posted:
Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

And medical errors kill about 250,000 every year according to some researchers. I guess doctors should be banned first.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com...th-in-united-states/

___

Typical nonsensical winger drivel!  So if there are "only" 9 or 10 thousand gun deaths per year in the U.S.from handguns (and that range continues today), then it ain't so bad, since more people die from other causes.  Jackassical reasoning there, Stanky!

Pardon me, but firearms are used more often than those numbers indicate to save lives. The low estimate is between 55,000-80,000 times a year to 4,700,000 at the high end.

Lower-end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, which estimated approximately 55,000–80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[7] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2][10]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

It would take an evil moronical phoo to say many of those folks would be better off dead to playcate an old hoplophobic crank.

Generally, such studies show it’s the presence of a firearm, not necessarily its use that causes a crime not to be committed.  Shown or warned of having a firearm, most prefer to leave the scene rather than risk being shot.

 
 
direstraits posted:
Stanky posted:
Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

And medical errors kill about 250,000 every year according to some researchers. I guess doctors should be banned first.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com...th-in-united-states/

___

Typical nonsensical winger drivel!  So if there are "only" 9 or 10 thousand gun deaths per year in the U.S.from handguns (and that range continues today), then it ain't so bad, since more people die from other causes.  Jackassical reasoning there, Stanky!

Pardon me, but firearms are used more often than those numbers indicate to save lives. The low estimate is between 55,000-80,000 times a year to 4,700,000 at the high end.

Lower-end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, which estimated approximately 55,000–80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[7] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2][10]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

It would take an evil moronical phoo to say many of those folks would be better off dead to playcate an old hoplophobic crank.

Generally, such studies show it’s the presence of a firearm, not necessarily its use that causes a crime not to be committed.  Shown or warned of having a firearm, most prefer to leave the scene rather than risk being shot.

____

In other words, the numbers are SPECULATIVE as in "Because there was a gun here, someone did not commit a crime that did not happen.

Reminds me of a story by Alexander King from his book, "May this House Be Safe From Tigers."  An immigrant from India, upon leaving his home in New York each morning, stood facing the house and incanted each day for 20 years, "May this house be safe from tigers." He was pleased that his little prayer worked well, for in all that time never did a single tiger appear to menace his home.

Last edited by Contendahh
budsfarm posted:
Contendahh posted:
budsfarm posted:

 

LAST YEAR?

The CFHC  [as Handgun Control, Inc was formally known] ceased as a certified non-profit organization in 1978.

http://findingaids.library.uic.../ead/rjd1/CFHCf.html

Box Score - no runs, no hits, 1 error.

 

Not so fast there, budsfarm,:

"Founded 1974 by Mark Borinsky as the National Council to Control Handguns. It is now known as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence."

http://www.nndb.com/org/834/000115489/

 BESIDES--the poster made no claim as to its date.

 

Are you so desperate to defect you refer to yourself in the third person?  The poster is you.  Or maybe you've forgotten.  After all, its been 8 hours.

Of course you made no claim to its date.  You had not a clue either to its origin nor date of publication.  You once again failed to vet your own source.

Box score - no runs, no hits, 3 errors.

 

_____

The item I supplied was the "POSTER,"  as in a notice or a placard of the type I copied and pasted. I was NOT referring to myself or any other human person.

Stanky posted:
Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

 

Pardon me, but firearms are used more often than those numbers indicate to save lives. The low estimate is between 55,000-80,000 times a year to 4,700,000 at the high end.

Lower-end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, which estimated approximately 55,000–80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[7] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2][10]

___

The vast range between  the high and low "estimates" tells any reasonable person that these estimates are no more than SWAGs, Scientific Wild Ass Guesses!  80,000  to 4,700.000! These two "estimates" differ by a factor of almost 60X.  An absurdly wide range for any meaningful estimate.

 

 

Contendahh posted:
budsfarm posted:
Contendahh posted:
budsfarm posted:

 

LAST YEAR?

The CFHC  [as Handgun Control, Inc was formally known] ceased as a certified non-profit organization in 1978.

http://findingaids.library.uic.../ead/rjd1/CFHCf.html

Box Score - no runs, no hits, 1 error.

 

Not so fast there, budsfarm,:

"Founded 1974 by Mark Borinsky as the National Council to Control Handguns. It is now known as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence."

http://www.nndb.com/org/834/000115489/

 BESIDES--the poster made no claim as to its date.

 

Are you so desperate to defect you refer to yourself in the third person?  The poster is you.  Or maybe you've forgotten.  After all, its been 8 hours.

Of course you made no claim to its date.  You had not a clue either to its origin nor date of publication.  You once again failed to vet your own source.

Box score - no runs, no hits, 3 errors.

 

_____

The item I supplied was the "POSTER,"  as in a notice or a placard of the type I copied and pasted. I was NOT referring to myself or any other human person.

It's your poster, poster.  You tell me what year it refers to.

Contendahh posted:
 
 
direstraits posted:
Stanky posted:
Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

And medical errors kill about 250,000 every year according to some researchers. I guess doctors should be banned first.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com...th-in-united-states/

___

Typical nonsensical winger drivel!  So if there are "only" 9 or 10 thousand gun deaths per year in the U.S.from handguns (and that range continues today), then it ain't so bad, since more people die from other causes.  Jackassical reasoning there, Stanky!

Pardon me, but firearms are used more often than those numbers indicate to save lives. The low estimate is between 55,000-80,000 times a year to 4,700,000 at the high end.

Lower-end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, which estimated approximately 55,000–80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[7] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2][10]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

It would take an evil moronical phoo to say many of those folks would be better off dead to playcate an old hoplophobic crank.

Generally, such studies show it’s the presence of a firearm, not necessarily its use that causes a crime not to be committed.  Shown or warned of having a firearm, most prefer to leave the scene rather than risk being shot.

____

In other words, the numbers are SPECULATIVE as in "Because there was a gun here, someone did not commit a crime that did not happen.

Reminds me of a story by Alexander King from his book, "May this House Be Safe From Tigers."  An immigrant from India, upon leaving his home in New York each morning, stood facing the house and incanted each day for 20 years, "May this house be safe from tigers." He was pleased that his little prayer worked well, for in all that time never did a single tiger appear to menace his home.

OK, we know your mental faculties are in decline -- but, this far?  In the studies, there was a aggressive person -- some were shot and some when warned, left.

In the silly story about the tiger, there were no tigers in the area, except in the zoo.  There were aggressive persons running around free in NYC, not just at Riker's Island.

Contendahh posted:
 
 
direstraits posted:
Stanky posted:
Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

And medical errors kill about 250,000 every year according to some researchers. I guess doctors should be banned first.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com...th-in-united-states/

___

Typical nonsensical winger drivel!  So if there are "only" 9 or 10 thousand gun deaths per year in the U.S.from handguns (and that range continues today), then it ain't so bad, since more people die from other causes.  Jackassical reasoning there, Stanky!

Pardon me, but firearms are used more often than those numbers indicate to save lives. The low estimate is between 55,000-80,000 times a year to 4,700,000 at the high end.

Lower-end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, which estimated approximately 55,000–80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]

Another survey including DGU questions was the National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms, NSPOF, conducted in 1994 by the Chiltons polling firm for the Police Foundation on a research grant from the National Institute of Justice. NSPOF projected 4.7 million DGU per year by 1.5 million individuals after weighting to eliminate false positives.[7] Another estimate has estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States.[1]:65[2][10]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

It would take an evil moronical phoo to say many of those folks would be better off dead to playcate an old hoplophobic crank.

Generally, such studies show it’s the presence of a firearm, not necessarily its use that causes a crime not to be committed.  Shown or warned of having a firearm, most prefer to leave the scene rather than risk being shot.

____

In other words, the numbers are SPECULATIVE as in "Because there was a gun here, someone did not commit a crime that did not happen.

Reminds me of a story by Alexander King from his book, "May this House Be Safe From Tigers."  An immigrant from India, upon leaving his home in New York each morning, stood facing the house and incanted each day for 20 years, "May this house be safe from tigers." He was pleased that his little prayer worked well, for in all that time never did a single tiger appear to menace his home.

Nope, the reason for the wide disparity of numbers is because David Hemenway is one of ur'ine, he's a liberal and strangely enough the high number was produced by a fellow of the liberal but self described non-partisan Brookings Institution who is anti-gun. Usually the methodology consists of questionnaires to either the general public or polling felons as to whether they had to draw a weapon and repel bad guys in the case of the good guys or if they had to run away with their tail between their legs for the felons. The resulting numbers are then extrapolated to reflect the total population. I don't doubt there are sampling errors and not all people will respond honestly; a felon who used an illegal gun to save his hind-side or a honest citizen turned into a reluctant criminal by state and local gun laws are not likely to 'fess up.

Still, even if the number of people who save themselves with guns is only in the tens of thousands, it still takes a self centered evil person to say that those lives don't matter.

direstraits posted:

OK, we know your mental faculties are in decline -- but, this far?  In the studies, there was a aggressive person -- some were shot and some when warned, left.

In the silly story about the tiger, there were no tigers in the area, except in the zoo.  There were aggressive persons running around free in NYC, not just at Riker's Island.

It is you who are in decline.  The alleged conclusion from the fact of there being a firearm on hand in  the vicinity of an "aggressive person," (however that term is defined) namely that a crime WAS prevented, is indeed speculative,  and gave rise to the ludicrously extreme range given for alleged prevention of hostile activity by said "aggressive persons."

More from your source:

"Defensive gun uses NSPOF estimates. Private citizens sometimes use their guns to scare off trespassers and fend off assaults. Such defensive gun uses (DGUs) are sometimes invoked as a measure of the public benefits of private gun ownership. On the basis of National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) data, one would conclude that defensive uses are rare indeed, about 108,000 per year. But other surveys yield far higher estimates of the number of DGUs. Most notable has been a much publicized estimate of 2.5 million DGUs, based on data from a 1994 telephone survey conducted by Florida State University professors Gary Kleck and Mark Gertz.13 The 2.5 million figure has been picked up by the press and now appears regularly in newspaper articles, letters to the editor, editorials, and even Congressional Research Service briefs for public policymakers."

 

Of course the much larger figure (2.5 million) is the one chosen by the pro-gun interests to advance their ideology.

Last edited by Contendahh

As to that bogus 2.5 million, some additional commentary:

"In his book, Hemenway dissects the 2.5 million number from a variety of angles and, by extension, the NRA’s own non-lethal self defense claims for firearms. He concludes, “It is clear that the claim of 2.5 million annual self-defense gun uses is a vast overestimate” and asks, “But what can account for it?” As he details in his book, the main culprit is the “telescoping and...false positive problem” that derives from the very limited number of respondents claiming a self-defense gun use, “a matter of misclassification that is well known to medical epidemiologists.”

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

Private citizens sometimes use their guns to scare off trespassers and fend off assaults. Such defensive gun uses (DGUs) are sometimes invoked as a measure of the public benefits of private gun ownership.-----'duh 

Exactly the point! What moral person wants to kill another? It's better that conflict is settled with a show of force than getting into a survival of the fittest fight with pointy objects and weighty cudgels. Also in these screwed up times, even if the good guy wins the fight with the bad guy in liberal land; the good guy is likely to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law for harming a Dem voter or likely voter. How evil is it to put good citizens through the pain of defending themselves after defending themselves?

Oh, by the way, the Violence Policy Center isn't unbiased.

Last edited by Stanky
Stanky posted:

Private citizens sometimes use their guns to scare off trespassers and fend off assaults. Such defensive gun uses (DGUs) are sometimes invoked as a measure of the public benefits of private gun ownership.-----'duh 

Exactly the point! What moral person wants to kill another? It's better that conflict is settled with a show of force than getting into a survival of the fittest fight with pointy objects and weighty cudgels. Also in these screwed up times, even if the good guy wins the fight with the bad guy in liberal land; the good guy is likely to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law for harming a Dem voter or likely voter. How evil is it to put good citizens through the pain of defending themselves after defending themselves?

Oh, by the way, the Violence Policy Center isn't unbiased.

___

And of course we all know just how unbiased the NRA is! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Contendahh posted:
Stanky posted:

Private citizens sometimes use their guns to scare off trespassers and fend off assaults. Such defensive gun uses (DGUs) are sometimes invoked as a measure of the public benefits of private gun ownership.-----'duh 

Exactly the point! What moral person wants to kill another? It's better that conflict is settled with a show of force than getting into a survival of the fittest fight with pointy objects and weighty cudgels. Also in these screwed up times, even if the good guy wins the fight with the bad guy in liberal land; the good guy is likely to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law for harming a Dem voter or likely voter. How evil is it to put good citizens through the pain of defending themselves after defending themselves?

Oh, by the way, the Violence Policy Center isn't unbiased.

___

And of course we all know just how unbiased the NRA is! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

No.  And they don't pretend to be like so many "gun grabber" organizations do.

 

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