Hi all,
Chick begins her discussion "Can You Know Where You're Going?" by asking, "The Church Of Christ say they are the only ones going to Heaven. Catholics say their way is the only way, the only true church. OSAS (once saved, always save) Baptist will tell you that you can be "always forever, never lose it", saved. Any that don't belong to any of those religions are apparently going to Hell. Since all of them can't be right, which one has it right?"
Crusty responds correctly, "God isn't going to judge anyone by what church they attend."
And Vic tells her, "I know you don't want me saying anything to you, so I'll just say this one thing. God isn't looking for what you do wrong, he just wants to catch you doing what's right. You're in full control of whether it's heaven or hell for you. God just lets you know how you did and really, have you done anything to deserve hell? I didn't think so.
There are No Catholics in Heaven and there aren't any Church Of Christ, Baptist, or other named Church affiliated people. It just people that deserve Heaven. It's not that difficult and certainly not complicated. You might be worrying too much about it. Steer clear of the potholes until you die. That's all any of us try to do in the first place."
On some of Vic's response I agree completely. Everyone most certainly does choose his/her own personal eternal destination, heaven or hell. God gave each person the gift of free will. And, using that free will, each person must individually make a choice: to follow God, heaven OR to deny God, hell.
When Vic tells her, "There are No Catholics in Heaven, and there aren't any Church Of Christ, Baptist, or other named Church affiliated people." -- I agree with him 100%. In heaven we will find, besides God and His angels -- only the Old Testament saints, those in the Old Testament who, through faith, believed His promise of a coming Messiah -- and the New Testament saints, i.e., the church, the body of believers worldwide. One day, the Tribulation saints will be there also.
There are no distinctions, nor denominations -- only saints worshiping and in fellowship with our Lord and Savior.
But, let's discuss Vic's comments, "God just lets you know how you did, and really, have you done anything to deserve hell?" and "It just people that deserve Heaven."
When we speak of deserving hell, we must in the same breath, discuss deserving heaven as he has done. Yet, we must realize that, because of Adam's disobedience, when sin and death were brought into the creation through this disobedience -- all people have inherited this Adamic Sin Nature. Thus we all deserve hell.
But, because God loves all His creation and does not want to see anyone perish in hell (2 Peter 3:9), He gives all of us a way to gain eternal life in heaven (John 3:16).
In doing this He has shown both mercy and grace toward us.
Question: "What is the difference between mercy and grace?"
Answer: Mercy and grace are often confused. While the terms have similar meanings, grace and mercy are not the same. To summarize the difference: mercy is God not punishing us as our sins deserve, and grace is God blessing us despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mercy is deliverance from judgment. Grace is extending kindness to the unworthy. (http://www.gotquestions.org/mercy-grace.html)
So, basically, Mercy is us NOT getting what we do deserve, eternal death. And Grace is us getting what we NO NOT deserve, eternal life.
How do we get this eternal life which God, through His grace, wants to give us? Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This tells us that we cannot work our way into heaven. No amount of works -- unless they are preceded by salvation, gained by grace, through faith -- can get anyone into heaven. No one has ever been able to answer the age old questions: "How much works do I have to do to gain heaven?" and "When will I know that I have done enough works to gain heaven?" Why not? Because one cannot do enough works to gain heaven.
Yet, one can, by the grace of God, through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ -- believe and receive this most precious gift -- eternal life in Christ.
How about the Old Testament people, how could they be saved? Jesus tells us, in John 14:6, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Me." And, that NO ONE included the Old Testament people as well -- they could only come to heaven through Jesus Christ.
But, you might say, Jesus Christ was not around for them to believe in during the Old Testament days. Well, that is not really true; He was there, He has always been there -- for He is preexisting. In the Old Testament they were told of their coming Messiah, which would be Jesus Christ Incarnate. If they believed God and looked forward to their Messiah coming -- they were saved. You can read about this in Hebrews, chapter 11, the Faith Chapter.
So, the Old Testament saints went straight into heaven? No. Wait a minute, you said they were saved by faith. True, but since Jesus Christ had not yet become the Incarnate God, our Savior come to pay our sin debt in full by dying on the cross in our place to offer us eternal life, and resurrecting from the dead to assure our resurrection into immortal life -- the Old Testament believers could not go into heaven yet.
But, they surely would not go into hell; so, where? They went into Hades/Paradise where they existed happily in the presence of Abraham. This is often called the Bosom of Abraham. But, those who did not believe, upon death went into Hades/Torment which was really not a very desirable place to exist. You can read about this in Luke 16:19-31.
When Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected, first He led those faithful Old Testament believers out of Hades/Paradise and into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). So, just as we are told in John 14:6, those Old Testament saints went into the presence of the Father, through, or with, Jesus Christ.
Now that the doors of heaven have been thrown open by His death, resurrection, and ascension back into heaven -- all believers, i.e., all saints. immediately upon death go directly into the presence of the the Father, God. Yet, all non-believers still go into Hades/Torment to await their resurrection to judgment at the Great White Throne of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:11-15).
So, to answer the question posed by our agnostic Friend, Chick: YES, we most certainly can know, and choose, where we are going when we die.
The apostle John tells us, in 1 John 5:12, "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
And, then John further explains why he is telling us this. 1 John 5:13, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."
And, John also wrote in his Gospel of John, "Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30-31).
These Scripture passages, written by the apostle whom Jesus loved, John -- tell us two things: First, that by believing in Him, we can HAVE life in Him. And, second, that by believing in Him, we can KNOW that we have eternal life in Christ. That, my Friend, is "eternal security" or as some call it "Once Saved, Always Saved."
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
