Why preachers? 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not only is the question "Why preachers?" valid, the protestant preachers

aren't backed by the Bible so they have no right to the Christian religion.

Reformation isn't Biblical, It's against Bible teaching to breakaway to

start a new church outside the one Jesus created while he was on earth.

Apostolic succession of popes,bishops priests was instituted  by Jesus

Christ and has been Catholic since the word of Christ spoke it into existence

2000 years ago.

Why priests?  Because Jesus, our High Priest, set it up that way, going back to the Old Testament.  God told the Israelites the were a kingdom of priests (Isaiah 61:6), but He also established the Levitical priests from the family of Aaron.  In the New Testament, we see Jesus Himself as High Priest,  according to the order of Melchizedek.  And he called the first priests, the apostles and disciples, and commissioned them to teach and sanctify, and gave them authority.

Praised be Jesus forever!!

ditto

___

You obviously either never have read the book of Hebrews or read it and missed some of its most significant teaching. I suggest that you read Chapters 6-9, which clearly establish that Jesus is our high priest and which make it plain that the human priesthood is no longer in effect, since under the new covenant in Christ, He is all the priest anyone needs. 

.

Well upperty, maybe your boy luther should've torn the book of Matthew

out of the Bible alone with James. Jesus trumps Hebrews.

___

Here's why:

Though the office of human priesthood, as it once existed under the Law of Moses, has been done away with, the New Testament makes it plain that the word of God is to be preached and provides ample authority for the role of preachers in the New Testament church.  Here are just a few scriptures supporting this concept:

Romans 10:

¹³ For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

¹⁴ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

¹⁵ And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

--

Matthew 24:

¹³ But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

--

 ² Timothy 1  10. But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

¹¹ Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

What should they have if they shouldn't have priests? 

___

If they wish to organize the contemporary church upon the church described in the New Testament,  they should have elders and deacons and teachers and evangelists (preachers)
--all of which are described in the New Testament as having a place in the church described there.

Oh I see, do it your way.

***************

No--do it the BIBLICAL way.

LOL!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jesus has already established his Church the Biblical way, that's why he

wrote the Bible in such a biblical way. Your trouble is a 1900 year gap

between Jesus and his church, the one you so affectionately call Catholic

and your late start church. You aren't twisting your bible parts as well as

billie can, you should ask him for help.

Rewrting history and the word of God can become quite a lying c****

c h o r e.

Amen!  Amen!  Amen!  Jesus is our High Priest, and the only Mediator between man and God:

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Hebrews 8:6, "But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises."

Hebrews 9:15, "For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance."

Hebrews 12:24, "And to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel."

Since Christ brought us into the dispensation of Grace -- we have no need for priests, popes, and all the pomp and ceremony.  We need only Jesus Christ.

I was struck by the announcements from the Vatican yesterday -- that the Pope, now that he has retired, will continue to wear the white cassock -- but, not the RED SHOES!

Curious about this, I googled and found this in WikiAnswers:

The tradition of the popes wearing red shoes were carried over from the customs of ancient Rome itself. In fact, by the time of the Byzantine Empire only three people are allowed to officially wear red shoes in the empire: the Emperor, the Empress, and the Pope.  During ancient times, the manner and style of dress signified and symbolized rank, heritage, group or cultural affiliations, status, also of privilege.

So, it appears the Pope, the Emperor, and the Empress -- are one class of beings.  And, we mere mortals are another.

When I heard this on the news, the first thing that came to mind:  Are his red shoes like the Mormon temple undershorts -- some special sacred symbol?

But, to get back on track -- Biblically, there is no reason to have popes or priests -- nor all of the religious traditions, rituals, robes, man-created saints, etc. -- which are merely carried over from a mixture of Judaism and Roman pagan religions.

The church is not an organization.  It is the body of believers begun on the Day of Pentecost 33 AD when the Holy Spirit came upon the 120 disciples in the Upper Room -- and the 3000 (plus women and children) who became believers when the disciples went outside the Upper Room and began to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  A few days later, the church grew to over 5000 (plus women and children). And, through the simple sharing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by Paul and the other disciples -- the Christian faith, the Christian church, the body of believers, has grown to billions around the world.

From that beginning, this body of believers (the church) began "continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."  (Acts 2:42).

Please notice that their method of practicing their Christian faith consisted of:  teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer.   In that we see no traditions, rituals, fancy robes, great cathedrals -- or red shoes.  Wouldn't it be refreshing to get back to that simple, Christ anointed, church of the Day of Pentecost 33 AD?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

If you want to get back to that simple, Christ anointed, Church of the Day of Pentecost 33 AD, come to the Church Jesus founded, the Catholic Church.  With bishops, presbyters (priests), and deacons, as noted in the New Testament.  We have teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer.  We call it the Mass!!!

Praised be Jesus forever!!!

____

There is nothing in the new Testament that identifies "presbyters" (also referred to as elders or bishops  (same office by different names) as having the functions the Catholic Church assigns to its priests.  There is no more a human priesthood other than in the sense of the priesthood of all believers.  Read Hebrews 8 & 9 and get informed on the matter of priests and high priests and how those human offices are done away with in the new covenant under our High Priest, Jesus Christ.

The priesthood is not done away in the New Testament.  Jesus is indeed ourt High Priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.  But in James 5:13, we see that if one is sick, one should summon the presbyter (priest) who will pray over the sick person, and anoint the sick with oil.  Priests today continue doing this.  One of the many functions of the priesthood, as noted in the New Testament.

Praised be Jesus forever!!

___

You just do not pay attention. The "presbyter," in the New Tesatement is one of a group of men holding office in a local church (Acts14;23, 20:17; Philippians 1.1; I Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5).  The office of presbyter is the same office that is also referred to as "elder" or "bishop."   Those holding this office are required to be the "husband of one wife" ( I Tim. 4:6) whereas in the Catholic Church, priests are not even allowed to marry.  There is no way that the contrived office of priest in the RCC equates to the role of elders, bishops, presbyters in the church as exemplified in the New Testament..

Not sure which Bible translation you are using, but all of these translations say ELDER, not priest, nor presbyter:

KJV - James 5:14 - "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
 
NKJV - James 5:14 - Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. © Info: - New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

NLT - James 5:14 - Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord. © Info: - New Living Translation © 2007 Tyndale House Foundation

NIV - James 5:14 - Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. © Info: - The Holy Bible, New International Version© 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society

ESV - James 5:14 - Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. © Info: - English Standard Version © 2001, 2007 Crossway Bibles

NASB - James 5:14 - Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, *anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; © Info: - New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV - James 5:14 - Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; © Info: - Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

ASV - James 5:14 - Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: © Info: - American Standard Version 1901 Info

YLT - James 5:14 - is any infirm among you? let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, having anointed him with oil, in the name of the Lord, © Info: - Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

DBY - James 5:14 - Is any sick among you? let him call to [him] the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of [the] Lord; © Info: - J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

WEB - James 5:14 - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Once again, my Friend, you are reading into Scripture what you WANT it to say -- to fit your preconceived theology -- when you should be pulling from Scripture what the writer really wrote and intended.   And, of course, this is a necessity when one is supporting a set of doctrines made by man and not taken from Scripture.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

.

James 5: 13-4          Douay-Rheims bible    1582 AD

 13  Is any of you sad? Let him pray. Is he cheerful in mind? Let him sing.

14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church,

and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

(Let him bring in: See here a plain warrant of scripture for the sacrament of

extreme unction, that any controversy against its institution would be against

the express words of the sacred text in the plainest terms.)

New American bible          James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? ⁶ He should summon the presbyters of the

church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the

name of the Lord,

 New Advent     James 5: 14

14 Is one of you sick? Let him send for the presbyters of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the Lord’s name.

Hi Nathan,

Not sure which Bible translation you are using, but all of these translations say ELDER, not priest, nor presbyter:

You billie assume too much when using a bible that has been reworded

too many times.

Once again, my Friend, you are reading into Scripture what you WANT it to say -- to fit your preconceived theology -- when you should be pulling from Scripture what the writer really wrote and intended.   And, of course, this is a necessity when one is supporting a set of doctrines made by man and not taken from Scripture.

 Arrogant much?

From INVICTUS, above:

<<<James 5: 13-4          Douay-Rheims bible    1582 AD

 13  Is any of you sad? Let him pray. Is he cheerful in mind? Let him sing.

14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church,

and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

(Let him bring in: See here a plain warrant of scripture for the sacrament of

extreme unction, that any controversy against its institution would be against

the express words of the sacred text in the plainest terms.)>>>

 _________________

NO--decidedly NO! 

The Greek word used in James 5:14 is "presbuteros". It is an entirely different word than the Greek words for “priest” or “high priest.”  The Greek “hiereus” is used in the New Testament when the office of priest is discussed. For “chief priest or high priest, the Greek word is “archiereus.”

Your translation also renders presbuteros as “priests” in Titus 1:5, as follows:

 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

⁵ For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee....”:

That same chapter lists the qualifications for the office that is described and one of them is that an elder “(Douay-Rheims’ “priest&rdquo is to be the “the husband of one wife, having faithful children” (quoted from Douay-Rheims).  Thus, even if “presbuteros could be translated “priest”--which it can not be--the very verse you cite must be read as  disallowing unmarried and childless men from occupying that office. That pretty well disqualifies the entire Catholic priesthood.

Your Catholic-sanctioned Douay-Rheims translation mis-translates “presbuteros” in James 14 as “priest.”  Below is a list of numerous other translations that respect the Greek etymology, i.e.that do not use an improperly preferred term, such as “priest” in order to rationalize the Biblical text to a preconceived concept of the corrupted ecclesiastical system of the Roman Catholic Church. The great majority of these translations  use an etymologically and  theologically sound and defensible word, namely “elder” (or “elders” in plural) to correctly translate the text.:

1 Timothy 5:19

<< 1 Timothy 5:18 | 1 Timothy 5:20 >>

En Español

1 Timothy 5:19 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Against an elder receive not an accusation, except before two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Against an elder receive not an accusation, except at the mouth of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Listen to no accusation [presented before a judge] against an elder unless it is confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 : Deut. 19:15.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t accept an accusation made against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never listen to any accusation against a leader unless it is supported by two or three witnesses.

Footnotes:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 Deuteronomy 17:6; 19:15

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t listen to any charge against a church leader, unless at least two or three people bring the same charges.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Against an elder receive not an accusation unless where there are two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t listen to someone who accuses an elder. You should listen to them only if there are two or three others who can say what the elder did wrong.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 : See Deut. 19:15

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 : See Deut. 19:15

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (EXB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not listen to someone who accuses an elder, without two or three witnesses [Deut. 19:15].

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (GNV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Against an Elder receive none accusation, but under two or three witnesses.

Footnotes:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 The second rule: Let no accusation be admitted against an Elder, but under two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t pay attention to an accusation against a spiritual leader unless it is supported by two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or more witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 : Deut 17:6; 1Tim 19:15

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (HCSB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t accept an accusation against an elder unless it is supported by two or three witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 5:19 : Dt 19:15

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:17-20 (PHILLIPS) | Whole Chapter

You and your elders

^17-20 Elders with a gift of leadership should be considered worthy of respect, and of adequate salary, particularly if they work hard at their preaching and teaching. Remember the scriptural principle: ‘You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads the grain’, and ‘The labourer is worthy of his wages’. Take no notice of charges brought against an elder unless they can be substantiated by proper witnesses. If sin is actually proved, then the offenders should be publicly rebuked as a salutary warning to others.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

I Timothy 5:19 (KNOX) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not take cognizance of any charge made against a presbyter, unless there are two witnesses or more.

I Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not accept an accusation against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t listen to a complaint against a leader that isn’t backed up by two or three responsible witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (MOUNCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not accept an accusation against an elder, except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 : Acts 11:30; 1 Tim 4:14; 5:17
2. 1 Timothy 5:19 : Deut 17:6; 19:15; Matt 18:16

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not listen to someone who accuses an elder, without two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NET) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not accept an accusation against an elder unless it can be confirmed by two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t believe a charge against an elder unless two or three witnesses bring it.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Cross references:

1. 1 Timothy 5:19 : S Ac 11:30
2. 1 Timothy 5:19 : S Mt 18:16

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not listen to what someone says against a church leader unless two or three persons say the same thing.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NRSV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never accept any accusation against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NRSVA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never accept any accusation against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NRSVACE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never accept any accusation against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (NRSVCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never accept any accusation against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

Timotiyos I 5:19 (OJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not receive an accusation against a Zaken (Elder), unless on the PI SHNI EDIM O AL PI SHLOSHA EDIM ("testimony of two or three witnesses" DEVARIM 19:15).

Timotiyos I 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (RSV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never admit any charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (RSVCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Never admit any charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (VOICE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Listen, when or if a charge comes against an elder, don’t even acknowledge the accusation unless there are two or more witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (WEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Don’t receive an accusation against an elder, except at the word of two or three witnesses.

1 Timothy 5:19X

BackX

1 Timothy 5:19 (WE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

¹⁹ Do not listen to a complaint against a leader if what he has done has not been seen and proved by two or three people.

1 Timothy 5:19X

.

presbyter,  (from Greek presbyteros, “elder&rdquo, an officer or minister in the early Christian Church intermediate between bishop and deacon or, in modern Presbyterianism, an alternative name for elder. The word presbyter is etymologically the original form of “priest.”

James 5: 13-14          Douay-Rheims bible    1582 AD

13  Is any of you sad? Let him pray. Is he cheerful in mind? Let him sing.

14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church,

and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

(Let him bring in: See here a plain warrant of scripture for the sacrament of

extreme unction, that any controversy against its institution would be against

the express words of the sacred text in the plainest terms.)>>>

_________________

 Thus, even if “presbuteros could be translated “priest”--which it can not be--the very verse you cite must be read as  disallowing unmarried and childless men from occupying that office. That pretty well disqualifies the entire Catholic priesthood.

-----------------

billie billie, you idiot

Presbyter is the root for the word priest.  And having married priests is allowed.  We have quite a few in the Catholic Church.  It is a matter that has evolved over time.  Current practice permits those Anglican priests who become Catholic and are married to continue to serve as Catholic priests. But normal practice is for priestly celibacy. 

Praised be Jesus forever!!

We both know that a person entering the priesthood through the Roman Catholic church cannot be married nor get married.

The church's open door for married Anglican priests reminds me of the situation Constantine found himself in when he began the church of Rome.  As emperor, he wanted his Roman people to worship in his church; but, they were pagans.  So, how did he solve that problem?   He allowed them to bring their pagan idols, statues, etc., into his church.  And, he just renamed those idols with Christian names -- and everyone (except God) was happy.

The Pope, wanting to bring the Anglicans back into the Roman Catholic church -- is willing to allow them to bring their teachings into his church -- much as did Constantine.

In both cases, what we see is compromise, i.e., no problem, this is our teaching, our way -- but, we will change the rules for you.  Imagine how all those priests who had celibacy forced upon them will feel about that.  They are forced to be celibate -- and now, fellow priests from another church can be married. 

Reminds me of the Abraham Lincoln quote: 

"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government (or church) cannot endure, permanently, half slave (celibate) and half free (married).  I do not expect the Union (church) to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided.  It will become all one thing or all the other."

And, a church divided will have the same problem -- it will have to become all of one or the other.  Will the Roman Catholic church remove the celibacy rule?  Or, will the Anglicans, after they come back into the fold, have to give up their wives?

Also, there are Anglican/Episcopalian women priests.  Will the Roman Catholic church allow them to be priests in the Roman Catholic church?  If so, you have the same problem.   If not, then not all Anglican/Episcopalians can come home to roost in the Vatican domain.

Seems like the Roman Catholic church needs to think about this a wee bit more.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Poor Vic, 

He cannot even keep track of who he is trying to insult today.  He must have had too much "holy water" dumped on his head!   Bless his confused little heart!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

___

So, according to you,  the "...normal practice [in the Catholic Church] is for priestly celibacy" and the exceptions are those few priests who became priests after having been married.  What that means is that those Catholic priests who are in that "normal" category can not possibly meet the scriptural qualifications for the office of elder, since those qualifications require that an elder be the "husband of one wife, having believing children." (Titus 1:7). And since the Catholic Church's translations and interpretations of presbuteros in Titus 1  render the word as "priest," then the qualifications for the office of priest  would be the same as those for the office of elder.  BUT--Catholics have thousands of unmarried and childless priests who are ineligible to hold this office if the inspired scripture in Titus 1:6 are to be honored.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well upperty wrinkled one, do you have a problem with that? If you do,

why don't you tell someone who gives a damm what you think about it.

Tell your oldies or ancients or whatever you have out back in your

gossip barn.

again In-vicculeous the lesser is handled by the Apologist Upsidedahead handily a plaintiff remedy injunctively to quit and refrain from trying to pull the wool over the unsuspecting eye.

___

The PROBLEM is one of dissonance between what the Catholic Church teaches about their priesthood and what the Word of God clearly prescribes as qualifications for the office of "elder" in the verses I have cited.  The Catholic Church maintains that "elder", in I Timothy and Titus means "priest." But the instructions in both those books require that a person holding the office is to be married.  The Catholic Church's doctrine of priestly celibacy flies squarely in the face of that unambiguous Biblical instruction. Clearly a flagrant, outrageous, inexcusable departure from the scriptural standard.  Deny it if you will, but it is there for all to see! 

-------------------------------------
No upperty, it isn't a requirement to be married or have chilren.

Titus 1: 5-8

5

 For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains

to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you,

6

on condition that a man be blameless, married only once, with believing

children who are not accused of licentiousness or rebellious.

7

For a bishop as God's steward must be blameless, not arrogant, not irritable,

 not a drunkard, not aggressive, not greedy for sordid gain,

8

but hospitable, a lover of goodness, temperate, just, holy, and self-controlled,

This was to strengthen the authority of Titus, The same thing from 1 Tim

3: 1-7

Where did you come up with the word Require ?

Hi Vic,

You quote Titus 1: 5,  "For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you,"  (Which translation?)

Yet, I find:

KJV - Titus 1:5 - For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: © Info: - King James Version 1769 Info

NKJV - Titus 1:5 - For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— © Info: - New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

NLT - Titus 1:5 - I left you on the island of Crete so you could complete our work there and appoint elders in each town as I instructed you. © Info: - New Living Translation © 2007 Tyndale House Foundation

NIV - Titus 1:5 - The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. Footnote: * Or ordain © Info: - The Holy Bible, New International Version© 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society

ESV - Titus 1:5 - This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you-- © Info: - English Standard Version © 2001, 2007 Crossway Bibles

NASB - Titus 1:5 - For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, © Info: - New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV - Titus 1:5 - This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you, © Info: - Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

ASV - Tts 1:5 - For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge; © Info: - American Standard Version 1901 Info

YLT - Titus 1:5 - For this cause left I thee in Crete, that the things lacking thou mayest arrange, and mayest set down in every city elders, as I did appoint to thee; © Info: - Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

DBY - Titus 1:5 - For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou mightest go on to set right what remained [unordered], and establish elders in each city, as *I* had ordered thee: © Info: - J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

WEB - Titus 1:5 - For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldst set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

My, my, has the Roman Catholic church copied the Jehovah's Witnesses -- and created their own Bible translation to make it say what the Vatican wants to read into Scripture?   An interesting thought.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Why not priests?

When a list of qualifications for a position in the governance of a church is provided, one does not pick and choose which qualifications are required and which are not.  All of them apply, as any reasonable person would responsibly conclude. 

You do well to cite I Timothy 3, for there, in verse 4, there is a scriptural explanation of WHY a candidate for the office of elder or bishop is required to be a family man.  From the Douay-Rheims version:

"⁴ One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity.

⁵ But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church

of God?"

The scriptural criterion for selecting an elder poses a test:  Does the candidate rule well his own house?  Are his physical children in subjection to him?  If he is not able to control his own household, he is deemed unfit for the office.

Do you contend that this test for such an important office in the church is optional?

There is no rationalizing the concept of priestly celibacy with this requirement, Invictus. Square pegs still do not fit in round holes!

Why preachers? Seems like you all keep your noses in the bible so you should know as much as a preacher. Try reading it backwards so it will have a happy ending.

.Originally Posted by upsidedehead:

You do well to cite I Timothy 3, for there, in verse 4, there is a scriptural explanation of WHY a candidate for the office of elder or bishop is required to be a family man.  From the Douay-Rheims version:

I used 1 Tim 3: because it's identical to the Titus 1: reference.

They are both saying the samr thing.

Married w/ children is not a requirement. I would say it's more of a limitation

to how many wives a guy should have in his life.

The apostles were trying to place good people in these positions and

a clean background with religious kids and a stable marriage was what they

were looking for.

How long before this did Jesus send the apostles out to start building

the church??? How many good people are you going to find that aren't

married at that stage of their lives??

There is no rationalizing the concept of priestly celibacy with this requirement,

Just you making this statement in the first century with everything that's

going on is saying you are the only oblivious square peg without a clue.

Or the need for you to push your lies is so great you don't care how

stupid they sound.

And stay away from the  Douay-Rheims Bible, it's catholic, You chose

your modified secular book so stick with it.