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Do you know them? Have you come across them too? They’re all over the place. They either have a blog or a Facebook page to preach. They tell you to send them your money, that God wants them to have a jet or Gold bathroom fixtures in their mansions.

I’m sick of the "Christians" with their puffed up piety & superiority. They swear they know-it-all, that their way is the right way. They will tell you in a heart-beat that you’re going to Hell if you don’t do what they say you should. (You better put that check in the mail) And they can give you scripture to “prove” what they say. Of course, other Christians will give you different scriptures to tell you the same thing.

 

You ever notice the arrogance & condescension in their writing/preaching? Reminds me of those judgmental Christians you find at Church. I’m sure you know the ones I’m talking about? The ones who act like they got it all together, who do no wrong & tell you their false opinions of you? Oh, that’s because they know you better than you know yourself.

 

Where is these people’s humility? Do they truly think they are representing Christ in their writings/preaching? They act superior, all knowing, who will correct you in a heartbeat. They will point blank disagree with you, & then write about it on their blogs. Sad thing is there are those that agree with them, give them an Atta Boy! by sending them a check which makes them puff up even worse. They pat each other on the  back, speak sweet nothings to each other & then shun those who don’t believe as they do. They spout their arrogant & pious pontifications while hiding behind the cloak of religion & doctrinal precipices.

 

I understand why Ghandi said, “I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I couldn’t agree with him more.

Even if we don’t agree with each others stance, theology or position, we should be mature enough, kind enough to treat others how we would want to be treated. We need to remember that we are not a know-it-all, better than anyone else or superior to one another. If Christ truly exist, I would think only He reserves that right, stature and position, not you.

 

Why do I even read these blogs if they bother me so much? It only takes reading one sentence to know where they’re going, what they’re going to say. Sometimes I read to get a laugh. Sometimes I read just to see that know it all attitude. It’s amazing that an adult with half a functioning brain would write/preach the stuff they do.  

Oh & let's don't forget those sad little people with half a functioning brain that writes their blog, not for money, but because "Gold told them to" but we know it's because they have that over-blown ego, that they will someday answer to. 

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Do you know them? Have you come across them too? They’re all over the place. They either have a blog or a Facebook page to preach.

================================

Or a newspaper forum until they get too full of themselves and start thinking they own the forum and the rules don't apply to them. Then they find out the rules do apply to them too, and they can't bully their way back.

Last edited by Bestworking

Two things Semi - First, you've just got to have faith, and secondly, be sure to get your check in the mail early tomorrow . I can remember my dear old grandmother sending what little she had to some radio preacher . This was over 50 years ago when the message was delivered by an old tube-type table radio . I can remember the preacher telling his audience to place their hands on the top of the radio, and feel the warmth of God's love . They have improved their messages since then, but the scam is the same .

Originally Posted by OldMan: This was over 50 years ago when the message was delivered by an old tube-type table radio . I can remember the preacher telling his audience to place their hands on the top of the radio, and feel the warmth of God's love . They have improved their messages since then, but the scam is the same .
 
_____________________________
Aaaaah yeah.  ICs and transistors just don't radiate that same ol' warmth....

 

I'm just curious as to WHAT reasons makes you decide that these people, you cite and mention, are Christians?   Why do you think that these Churches are actually filled with Christians that do what you are saying is so contrary to what Christ taught?

 

To my own knowledge, and personal belief (and opinion) there is ONLY ONE way to KNOW if a person is a REAL CHRISTIAN or not.   Unfortunately that way is only really known unto God, and to the person themselves.  That defining thing is God's Holy Spirit dwelling within, inside, of the person's, the sinner's body along with their own inner spirit/soul.  God knows those who are His and each real Christian has God's own witness and testimony within their own body and other than God and the person themselves no one else can say with all certainty that the person IS a Christian or not. 

 

Now I will also add though that there are indications, signs that can be observed and seen to give indication as of if a person is living in the guidance of God's Holy Spirit or according to the leadership of God's Holy Spirit and those signs and indications are provided for us in Galatians 5:22-25.

Galatians 5:22-25 (AMP) 22  But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness, 23  Gentleness (meekness),humility self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge]. 24  And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires. 25  If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit we have our life in God, let us go forward walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

Again the attributes mentioned above can be seen in anyone and not just in Christians and are not a definitive proof of Salvation but rather the only proof is known to God and the person themselves and known because of God's own presence within the person as evidenced by God's Holy Spirit.  Paul also says if we live by the Spirit let us act like it inferring that not all true Christians act or perform as Christians should.  Really none of us can really judge whether a personis or is not a true or real Christian.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 (CEV)
21
 And so God makes it possible for you and us to stand firmly

together with Christ. God is also the one who chose us
22  and put his Spirit in our hearts to show that we
belong only to him.

 

Ephesians 1:13-14 (CEV)
13
 Christ also brought you the truth, which is the good news about

how you can be saved. You put your faith in Christ and were given the promised
Holy Spirit to show that you belong to God.
14
 The Spirit also makes us sure that we will be given what God has

stored up for his people. Then we will be set free, and God will be honored and praised.

So again I ask how can you know or does anyone know that someone who is acting in the ways described are actually Christians?  Is saying your a Christian make you one, truly?  Also are the actions you describe as being done by these, so called Christians, unto you and unto others that relate essentially the same things, representative of what Christ did?   Where in the Scriptures do Paul, the Apostles, or Christ tell true Christians to judge others, condemn others and the other things that are said to have been done by Christians?   Lastly could it just be that these negative things, that weren't representative of Christ actions, are being done by people claiming to be Christians but who otherwise have no resemblance to those things which are said to be representative of true Christians (Galatians 5:22-25)?  Is it also wise for people to base their own decisions about Christ upon these same group of people rather than upon Christ Himself and what the Scriptures have to say about the way to please God and to be Saved?

 

 

Last edited by gbrk
Originally Posted by gbrk:

I'm just curious as to WHAT reasons makes you decide that these people, you cite and mention, are Christians? Why do you think that these Churches are actually filled with Christians that do what you are saying is so contrary to what Christ taught? 

To my own knowledge, and personal belief (and opinion) there is ONLY ONE way to KNOW if a person is a REAL CHRISTIAN or not. Unfortunately that way is only really known unto God, and to the person themselves.  

God knows those who are His......

 

Really none of us can really judge whether a personis or is not a true or real Christian.

So again I ask how can you know or does anyone know that someone who is acting in the ways described are actually Christians? Is saying your a Christian make you one, truly?  Where in the Scriptures do Paul, the Apostles, or Christ tell true Christians to judge others, condemn others and the other things that are said to have been done by Christians? Lastly could it just be that these negative things, that weren't representative of Christ actions, are being done by people claiming to be Christians but who otherwise have no resemblance to those things which are said to be representative of true Christians (Galatians 5:22-25)?  Is it also wise for people to base their own decisions about Christ upon these same group of people rather than upon Christ Himself and what the Scriptures have to say about the way to please God and to be Saved? 

_____

I didn’t say I believed those people to be Christians. My questions “ Do you know them? Have you come across them too?” were to see if other people knew those kind, if they ever came across them.

I think churches are filled with “Christians” contrary to what Christ taught because I’ve seen them in church. Those kind are in every church, not just a few. I’m not saying all the people are not Christians but I believe the majority are not.

I don’t believe that God is the only one to know if someone is a Christian. Even the Bible says you can know a Christian by their fruit. Those people that claim to be a Christian, I watch/listen very carefully. If they truly are, I will see it/feel it. 

And you are wrong when you say none of us can really judge if  a person is or is not a true or real Christian.  Matthew, John, & 1 Cor. says you ARE to Judge a Christian's Fruit / Actions.  You are to make sure they're NOT Teaching & Living Contrary to God's Word. Apostle Paul judged 8 Times, & Named the Names of 8 False Converts in 2nd Timothy. In Matthew,  Jesus warned to be, "BEWARE of the FALSE PROPHETS, that you will KNOW THEM (identify them) by their FRUITS.

 

I never said it was wise to base our decisions about Christ upon those same group of people. But sadly, there are people like me that doubt the true existence of God & the truth of the Bible because of those people. If that’s the case, why would anyone want to believe a book that promoted, at one time, murder, rape, owning slaves, etc.?  Why would I want to have faith in someone that tells me if I don’t walk that very thin line, that He has a fire pit He will throw me into. I've lived it & it became a miserable existence.

Before you put words there that I didn’t say, please read my post carefully.

Obviously we make judgments every day. If we didn't we would live in a lawless society. Here's a very good quote on the subject:

 

Christians are often accused of "judging" whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses that state, "Do not judge." There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise—with careful discernment (John 7:24). When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically.Matthew 7:2-5declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/do...e.html#ixzz3YdijIAXn

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

I'm just curious <snipped for brevity>

_____

I didn’t say I believed those people to be Christians. My questions “ Do you know them? Have you come across them too?” were to see if other people knew those kind, if they ever came across them.

I think churches are filled with “Christians” contrary to what Christ taught because I’ve seen them in church. Those kind are in every church, not just a few. I’m not saying all the people are not Christians but I believe the majority are not.

I don’t believe that God is the only one to know if someone is a Christian. Even the Bible says you can know a Christian by their fruit. Those people that claim to be a Christian, I watch/listen very carefully. If they truly are, I will see it/feel it. 

And you are wrong when you say none of us can really judge if  a person is or is not a true or real Christian.  Matthew, John, & 1 Cor. says you ARE to Judge a Christian's Fruit / Actions.  You are to make sure they're NOT Teaching & Living Contrary to God's Word. Apostle Paul judged 8 Times, & Named the Names of 8 False Converts in 2nd Timothy. In Matthew,  Jesus warned to be, "BEWARE of the FALSE PROPHETS, that you will KNOW THEM (identify them) by their FRUITS.

 

I never said it was wise to base our decisions about Christ upon those same group of people. But sadly, there are people like me that doubt the true existence of God & the truth of the Bible because of those people. If that’s the case, why would anyone want to believe a book that promoted, at one time, murder, rape, owning slaves, etc.?  Why would I want to have faith in someone that tells me if I don’t walk that very thin line, that He has a fire pit He will throw me into. I've lived it & it became a miserable existence.

Before you put words there that I didn’t say, please read my post carefully.


Yes I have seen the type of people you mention and hopefully many that are guilty of such are in Church for the right reasons or benefit from being in Church and find God's direction for them.  And yes we are told to make judgments, as Christians, but the judgments we are to make are against those who claim Christ name and yet do opposite of what Christ teaches.  In other words we, Christians, are to judge the fruits of others to insure that they are representing Christ accurately and not profaning the gospel and acting contrary to God's word. 

 

It is for that reason that Paul approved the removal of a man, in Corinth, from the Church for living against what was taught while claiming Christ name (1 Corinthians 5:1-5).  Paul also states and highlights those "FRUITS" of the Holy Spirit that should distinguish a true Christian in Galatians 5:22-25.  Churches are a place for those seeking God to come, a place for those controlled by Sin to come to find Salvation and freedom, a place for Christians to come and fellowship with like minded believers and to be prompted to study.  Personal growth and enrichment and maturity though is found in personal study and learning and not from setting in the Church, not to say some people cannot learn some things from within Church.

 

I still say, and believe, that only God and the individual really knows if the person is saved or not and while Christians are encouraged to test those that bring unto us the message of Christ to make sure they are true to the scriptures and we are to judge those who claims Christ name to insure that the Church is representative of Christ we are not to judge those outside the Church, those who are non-Christians as to where they are Saved or not.  The encouragement for Christians to Judge others, within the Church, is to keep the Church pure and representative of Christ, true to His word and what He taught and true to Scriptures.

 

As for the statement you made, regarding the Bible, " why would anyone want to believe a book that promoted, at one time, murder, rape, owning slaves, etc.?  " Where do you believe the Bible promotes, encourages, demands that God's believers rape, make others slaves or murder people?  I will say that there are documented History of Israel's past and God has instructed Israel, at times of battle with other nations who were enemies of God, disbelieved God and offended God to totally eliminate that nation or people but in doing so they were carrying out the Judgment of God upon those nonbelievers and enemies of God and Israel.  I'm not aware though of anywhere that rape or the murder of innocents is encouraged. 

 

There are, though, those who have died under God's Judgment and account of God's wrath such as in Sodom and as with Noah and the flood and other campaigns of Israel.  As for slavery the Bible does dictate certain ways to act and behave toward slaves but that's a function of government and how it's carried out toward the citizens of Israel some of which were slaves.   I don't know of any scripture that says make these your slaves.  If there is any it may have to do with those captured in battle against Israel to enslave them for a time rather than kill or eliminate them.  The Bible also says mankind is born into slavery to sin but the hope and goal is that mankind will be free through Christ Blood and be Saved from that slavery status, unto sin.

 

As for basing decisions, about God, on men or people in Church, I didn't mean to indicate that I felt you were doing so for only you know if you are doing that and that's not a judgment I should even make.  I was making a statement though that I feel some people do that though and allow their feelings about specific people or Church members to influence their feelings and beliefs about God.

gbrk, there is dozens of scriptures like these but I didn't have time to find them all.

 

Numbers 31: 7-18 :  

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men.  All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle.  They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.  Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder.  They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived.  After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.   

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

 

Deuteronomy 20: 10-14:

 As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

 

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 

“If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

 

Exodus 21:7-11

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

Semi, those are passages that deal with very specific cases and specific people, the People of Israel, their government and defining how they should govern themselves and in dealing with their enemies. Those are not commands to all believers as to what to do.  It's disingenuous to cite those as examples saying God tells all His followers and believers to kill, rape, and the like.  As I alluded to in an above post, God has, in the past, in the section you cited, told Israel to entirely eliminate a complete people as a way to insure that those people were no longer a threat or would threaten Israel. 

 

In the New Testament God deals with mankind through Christ and by His Holy Spirit.  God's vengeance and judgment doesn't fall on mankind as it did in the most early day but there will come a future time when the period of Grace is over and God's judgment will fall on Earth and all mankind.  It is unfortunate that in war there are certain things that are done and approved of in order to accomplish victory and win and protect people. 

 

In World War II America bombed many cities with incendiaries that burned men, women, and children to death and in bringing about the end of the war we totally destroyed two cities that were filled with innocent people.  God didn't tell us to do that and many in America didn't want to kill innocent women and children but sometimes in order to win a victory you have to totally overwhelm the enemy and obliterate them.  In the early days of mankind, in the Nation of Israel God was said to literally go with the people into or before them in battle as they carried the ark of the covenant and established the Temple in the desert.   God did instruct Israel in order to maintain the integrity of the Nation of Israel that the Nation should be protected by total elimination of another foe/enemy and yes that included the women and children.  And yes there were spoils of war including slaves and those taken in the battle but often there was not even supposed to be spoils taken but entire peoples eliminated altogether. 

 

There are many things established in the government of early Israel that we should not apply to the way God deals with people today and it's unjust to say God approves slavery, murder, rape for obviously when you take the whole of scriptures and realize the context of the passage God is not.  There are also things that God doesn't necessary approve of yet He tolerates, such as divorce. 

 

Do you have any cases where you believe God is telling all His believers to do such?   A case that is not specifically addressing Israel and laws for setting up and governing the people of Israel? 

Last edited by gbrk
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Do you know them? name names! Have you come across them too? I might've They’re all over the place.  worse than I thoughtl They either have a blog or a Facebook page to preach.  sneaky. They tell you to send them your money, that God wants them to have a jet or Gold bathroom fixtures in their mansions.  sneaky basterds.

I’m sick nauseous  of the "Christians" with their puffed up piety & superiority.Yeah They swear they know-it-all, that their way is the right way. their way or the high way They will tell you in a heart-beat New York Second that you’re going to Hell if you don’t do what they say you should.   (You better put that check in the mail) And they can give you scripture to “prove” what they say.

Of course, other Christians will give you different scriptures to tell you the same thing.   bottom line your azz iz hellbound.

 

You ever notice the arrogance & condescension in their writing/preaching?  read gbrk and budfarm Reminds me of those judgmental Christians you find at Church. I’m sure you know the ones I’m talking about?  gbrk and budsfarm The ones who act like they got it all together, who do no wrong & tell you their false opinions of you?  all the dam time! Oh, that’s because they know you better than you know yourself.  Well, duh?

 

Where is these people’s humility?  We locked it in a storage box.  Al Gore advised it. Do they truly think they are representing Christ in their writings/preaching?  Uh huh. They act superior, all knowing, who will correct you in a heartbeat.  I'm not super to any man.  are you gbrka? They will point blank disagree with you, & then write about it on their blogs.  100% gbrk.  I don't do sech. Sad thing is there are those that agree with them, give them an Atta Boy! by sending them a check which makes them puff up even worse.  Whoa, whoa, whoa.  What checks gbrk.  You been holding out on me. They pat each other on the  back, speak sweet nothings to each other well not that there's anything wrong with that

& then shun those who don’t believe as they do. "Shun" is such a powerful word ... normally reserved for alligators, feral hogs and cats   They spout their arrogant & pious pontifications while hiding behind the cloak of religion & doctrinal precipices.  Okay, no piling on.  Arrogant, yes.  Pios etc, we have to get Vatican permission, cloaks belong to Darth Vader and what ... doctrinal precip1ces   You've gone tooo far.  None of ever claimed to have doctrinal whatever..

 

I understand why Ghandi said, “I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I couldn’t agree with him more.  What was it Ghandi liked about Christ.  Practically every Christian I knew admired Ghandi.  That would be true of more that all religions combined except BurgerKing.

 

Even if we don’t agree with each others stance, theology or position, we should be mature enough, kind enough to treat others how we would want to be treated. I do, and we get along. We need to remember that we are not a know-it-all comparing the two of us, who knows better.  Yeah, I know your gonna say I do and your right, better than anyone else or superior to one another on this forum with the exception of a handful of studious Christians and an equal number of atheist, all respectful of course.. If Christ truly exist, I would think only He reserves that right, stature and position, not you. True, but since atheist can represent themselves individually and/or collectively and he cannot, he's said it's okay by him if he lets us mortals speak for him.  Understanding our credibility may be stretched a bit beyond the borders of belief, He suggest you asking Him yourself for our validation.

 

Why do I even read these blogs if they bother me so much?  Sometimes ya just gotta let the loose end drag.  g one sentence to know where they’re going, what they’re going to say.  Sorry,i messed that one up.  Sometimes I read to get a laugh.  Best reason of all.   Sometimes I read just to see that know it all attitude.  100% about attitude.  It’s amazing that an adult with half a functioning brain would write/preach the stuff they do.  Yet we do and you read it.  Word for word  

Oh & let's don't forget those sad little people with half a functioning brain that writes their blog, not for money, but because "Gold told them to" but we know it's because they have that over-blown ego, that they will someday answer to. Wait, What!  I could be making money?  Aw, too bad.

 

Love you,  Semi

 

Bud

 

Bud, I wasn't referring to you or grbrk . I was referring to Copeland, Swaggart, Crouch, the Grahams, Hinn, the Bakkers, Meyer, Osteen, the Roberts, Tilton, Robertson, the Van Impe's....the list goes on & on. I have went to church with some of those people mentioned in my rant. There's even a couple of people on this forum that carry that "holier than thou" attitude, but it's not you or gbrk. If you've never come across those kind of people, count yourself lucky.

Originally Posted by gbrk:

Semi, those are passages that deal with very specific cases and specific people, the People of Israel, their government and defining how they should govern themselves and in dealing with their enemies. 

_________

Those are more of what I term “generic” answers.

You say God's vengeance & judgment doesn't fall on mankind as it did in the early days. The fact that he allowed it at all says a lot. Yes, war is a terrible thing & many innocent people die. But we’re talking about a man that supposably could stop something just by thinking it. A man that’s rumored to love people beyond measure but he allows children to be killed & woman to be raped.

 

I didn’t say that God is telling all His believers to do those things.

But I do say it was unjust for God to approve slavery, murder, & rape, even if he doesn’t allow it in the New Testament.

 

I hope you never take my comments as being rude. Just enjoying the discussions.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

Semi, those are passages that deal with very specific cases and specific people, the People of Israel, their government and defining how they should govern themselves and in dealing with their enemies. 

_________

Those are more of what I term “generic” answers.

You say God's vengeance & judgment doesn't fall on mankind as it did in the early days. The fact that he allowed it at all says a lot. Yes, war is a terrible thing & many innocent people die. But we’re talking about a man that supposably could stop something just by thinking it. A man that’s rumored to love people beyond measure but he allows children to be killed & woman to be raped.

 

I didn’t say that God is telling all His believers to do those things.

But I do say it was unjust for God to approve slavery, murder, & rape, even if he doesn’t allow it in the New Testament.

 

I hope you never take my comments as being rude. Just enjoying the discussions.

It's not that God approved of some things that we don't approve of in the

Old Testament. It's certain times and actions that he allowed. God never

approved of divorce but allowed Moses to grant them because of the situation

and the frame of mind those people were in at the time. We don't know the

future, God does, that's why he allows certain events at certain times because

the end results would be better for those involved.

 

I see it everyday, we second guess God, we always have a better idea, we

criticize, disapprove and disbelieve in him. Turn right around and claim him

to be all knowing, all loving and all merciful. If he does what we want in the

first place.

 

If all that fails we will again and again give the Bible a brand new

meaning, to fit our all knowing conclusions.

 

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