Fat Tuesday

Is that today? Since this was put in the Religion section, here is the day's religious significance...

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/MardiGras/
quote:
Mardi Gras, literally "Fat Tuesday," has grown in popularity in recent years as a raucous, sometimes hedonistic event. But its roots lie in the Christian calendar, as the "last hurrah" before Lent begins on Ash Wednesday. That's why the enormous party in New Orleans, for example, ends abruptly at midnight on Tuesday, with battalions of streetsweepers pushing the crowds out of the French Quarter towards home...

...Carnival comes from the Latin words carne vale, meaning "farewell to the flesh." Like many Catholic holidays and seasonal celebrations, it likely has its roots in pre-Christian traditions based on the seasons. Some believe the festival represented the few days added to the lunar calendar to make it coincide with the solar calendar; since these days were outside the calendar, rules and customs were not obeyed. Others see it as a late-winter celebration designed to welcome the coming spring. As early as the middle of the second century, the Romans observed a Fast of 40 Days, which was preceded by a brief season of feasting, costumes and merrymaking...

...Eventually the French in New Orleans celebrated Mardi Gras with masked balls and parties, until the Spanish government took over in the mid-1700s and banned the celebrations. The ban continued even after the U.S. government acquired the land but the celebrations resumed in 1827. The official colors of Mardi Gras, with their roots in Catholicism, were chosen 10 years later: purple, a symbol of justice; green, representing faith; and gold, to signify power.

Mardi Gras literally means "Fat Tuesday" in French. The name comes from the tradition of slaughtering and feasting upon a fattened calf on the last day of Carnival. The day is also known as Shrove Tuesday (from "to shrive," or hear confessions), Pancake Tuesday and fetter Dienstag. The custom of making pancakes comes from the need to use up fat, eggs and dairy before the fasting and abstinence of Lent begins.


Thank you, smokey...happy Fat Tuesday to you. Smiler
Lent, nolwhere sanctioned in Scripture, is preceeded by Mardi Gras, another observance nowhere found in Scripture, as one might suspect, given the often vile and sensual things that are carried out in Mardi Gras observances. Mardi Gras is modeled after the Roman Lupercanal Festival, with its debauchery and hedonism. These practices were brought in by a corrupted church in order to provide pagans with something to continue to attach themselves to while at least nominally becoming "Christians" and subject to the politico-ecclesiastical authority of that day. A similar substitution is found in the exaggerated role of Mary prescribed in Catholic doctrine. This unscriptural quasi-deification of a human being was derived from a perceived need to find a surrogate for the feminine gods of paganism. Thus, instead of coming out from the evils of the world, the corrupted church of that dismal era co-opted the practices of heathens and pagans in modified forms, all with the goal of pacifying and attracting the former idolators into a corrupted form of "Christianity."

Those who follow the clear teachings of Jesus and the New Testament have no need for such perverse practices and doctrines.
I played in a High School Band in 1953 and we went down and played in the Mardi-Gras parade, marched down Canal street, went to the French Quarters, the Pralines were the best thing I found about New Orleans, but I was just a young kid, by the way I played Baritone, very sweet sounding instrument, got offered a partial Scholarship to go play in the Band at Freed Hardeman, I should have went on, they might have made a Preacher out of me.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Lent, nolwhere sanctioned in Scripture, is preceeded by Mardi Gras, another observance nowhere found in Scripture, as one might suspect, given the often vile and sensual things that are carried out in Mardi Gras observances. Mardi Gras is modeled after the Roman Lupercanal Festival, with its debauchery and hedonism. These practices were brought in by a corrupted church in order to provide pagans with something to continue to attach themselves to while at least nominally becoming "Christians" and subject to the politico-ecclesiastical authority of that day. A similar substitution is found in the exaggerated role of Mary prescribed in Catholic doctrine. This unscriptural quasi-deification of a human being was derived from a perceived need to find a surrogate for the feminine gods of paganism. Thus, instead of coming out from the evils of the world, the corrupted church of that dismal era co-opted the practices of heathens and pagans in modified forms, all with the goal of pacifying and attracting the former idolators into a corrupted form of "Christianity."

Those who follow the clear teachings of Jesus and the New Testament have no need for such perverse practices and doctrines.


Just what I expected from you.
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Lent, nolwhere sanctioned in Scripture, is preceeded by Mardi Gras, another observance nowhere found in Scripture, as one might suspect, given the often vile and sensual things that are carried out in Mardi Gras observances. Mardi Gras is modeled after the Roman Lupercanal Festival, with its debauchery and hedonism. These practices were brought in by a corrupted church in order to provide pagans with something to continue to attach themselves to while at least nominally becoming "Christians" and subject to the politico-ecclesiastical authority of that day. A similar substitution is found in the exaggerated role of Mary prescribed in Catholic doctrine. This unscriptural quasi-deification of a human being was derived from a perceived need to find a surrogate for the feminine gods of paganism. Thus, instead of coming out from the evils of the world, the corrupted church of that dismal era co-opted the practices of heathens and pagans in modified forms, all with the goal of pacifying and attracting the former idolators into a corrupted form of "Christianity."

Those who follow the clear teachings of Jesus and the New Testament have no need for such perverse practices and doctrines.


Just what I expected from you.


And just what I expected from YOU--namely a "response" that utterly fails in any way to address the substance of what I posted. What's ther matter with you? Have you no capability to defend what you believe? Have you no competence to dispute what you disagree with?

It would seem that you strike out on both counts.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Lent, nolwhere sanctioned in Scripture, is preceeded by Mardi Gras, another observance nowhere found in Scripture, as one might suspect, given the often vile and sensual things that are carried out in Mardi Gras observances. Mardi Gras is modeled after the Roman Lupercanal Festival, with its debauchery and hedonism. These practices were brought in by a corrupted church in order to provide pagans with something to continue to attach themselves to while at least nominally becoming "Christians" and subject to the politico-ecclesiastical authority of that day. A similar substitution is found in the exaggerated role of Mary prescribed in Catholic doctrine. This unscriptural quasi-deification of a human being was derived from a perceived need to find a surrogate for the feminine gods of paganism. Thus, instead of coming out from the evils of the world, the corrupted church of that dismal era co-opted the practices of heathens and pagans in modified forms, all with the goal of pacifying and attracting the former idolators into a corrupted form of "Christianity."

Those who follow the clear teachings of Jesus and the New Testament have no need for such perverse practices and doctrines.


Just what I expected from you.


And just what I expected from YOU--namely a "response" that utterly fails in any way to address the substance of what I posted. What's ther matter with you? Have you no capability to defend what you believe? Have you no competence to dispute what you disagree with?

It would seem that you strike out on both counts.


God...you are so arrogant! You just can't stand the fact that someone doesn't believe the same way you do. Why such hostility toward the Catholic Church?

I know what I believe and I know that you are hostile toward the Catholic Church, that's enough for me. There is nothing I can say that will change your mind about me or the Catholic Church, or lesson your hostility toward me or the Church. You are just one arrogant individual!

BTW...your hostile response won me a free lunch from a co-worker...Thanks

Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Lent, nolwhere sanctioned in Scripture, is preceeded by Mardi Gras, another observance nowhere found in Scripture, as one might suspect, given the often vile and sensual things that are carried out in Mardi Gras observances. Mardi Gras is modeled after the Roman Lupercanal Festival, with its debauchery and hedonism. These practices were brought in by a corrupted church in order to provide pagans with something to continue to attach themselves to while at least nominally becoming "Christians" and subject to the politico-ecclesiastical authority of that day. A similar substitution is found in the exaggerated role of Mary prescribed in Catholic doctrine. This unscriptural quasi-deification of a human being was derived from a perceived need to find a surrogate for the feminine gods of paganism. Thus, instead of coming out from the evils of the world, the corrupted church of that dismal era co-opted the practices of heathens and pagans in modified forms, all with the goal of pacifying and attracting the former idolators into a corrupted form of "Christianity."

Those who follow the clear teachings of Jesus and the New Testament have no need for such perverse practices and doctrines.


Just what I expected from you.


And just what I expected from YOU--namely a "response" that utterly fails in any way to address the substance of what I posted. What's ther matter with you? Have you no capability to defend what you believe? Have you no competence to dispute what you disagree with?

It would seem that you strike out on both counts.


God...you are so arrogant! You just can't stand the fact that someone doesn't believe the same way you do. Why such hostility toward the Catholic Church?

I know what I believe and I know that you are hostile toward the Catholic Church, that's enough for me. There is nothing I can say that will change your mind about me or the Catholic Church, or lesson your hostility toward me or the Church. You are just one arrogant individual!

BTW...your hostile response won me a free lunch from a co-worker...Thanks

Smiler


You are nothing if not consistent, never showing any inclination or talent for defending what you believe, but instead just letting off angry steam at anything that challenges what you believe. I have to suspect that you must have just inherited your belief system without learning much at all about its actual theology; otherwise, you might be able to respond with something other than raw invective.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Lent, nolwhere sanctioned in Scripture, is preceeded by Mardi Gras, another observance nowhere found in Scripture, as one might suspect, given the often vile and sensual things that are carried out in Mardi Gras observances. Mardi Gras is modeled after the Roman Lupercanal Festival, with its debauchery and hedonism. These practices were brought in by a corrupted church in order to provide pagans with something to continue to attach themselves to while at least nominally becoming "Christians" and subject to the politico-ecclesiastical authority of that day. A similar substitution is found in the exaggerated role of Mary prescribed in Catholic doctrine. This unscriptural quasi-deification of a human being was derived from a perceived need to find a surrogate for the feminine gods of paganism. Thus, instead of coming out from the evils of the world, the corrupted church of that dismal era co-opted the practices of heathens and pagans in modified forms, all with the goal of pacifying and attracting the former idolators into a corrupted form of "Christianity."

Those who follow the clear teachings of Jesus and the New Testament have no need for such perverse practices and doctrines.


Just what I expected from you.


And just what I expected from YOU--namely a "response" that utterly fails in any way to address the substance of what I posted. What's ther matter with you? Have you no capability to defend what you believe? Have you no competence to dispute what you disagree with?

It would seem that you strike out on both counts.


God...you are so arrogant! You just can't stand the fact that someone doesn't believe the same way you do. Why such hostility toward the Catholic Church?

I know what I believe and I know that you are hostile toward the Catholic Church, that's enough for me. There is nothing I can say that will change your mind about me or the Catholic Church, or lesson your hostility toward me or the Church. You are just one arrogant individual!

BTW...your hostile response won me a free lunch from a co-worker...Thanks

Smiler


You are nothing if not consistent, never showing any inclination or talent for defending what you believe, but instead just letting off angry steam at anything that challenges what you believe. I have to suspect that you must have just inherited your belief system without learning much at all about its actual theology; otherwise, you might be able to respond with something other than raw invective.


You are just an arrogant person, period. I know what I believe, I know what is right for me and my family and I know I don't have to defend or explain anything to you.
What

What is it about the Catholic Church that just pisses you off? I'm not going to debate doctrine with you because like I said earlier, I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. But what do you have against the Catholic Church? Why do you care so much about the Catholic Church that you take any chance you are given to attack it?

Why are you insulting my intelligence with statements like "never showing any inclination or talent..." "Raw invective?" Are you referring to my calling you arrogant? Well, read your posts on this forum and others. You are arrogant, even your name identifies your arrogance "betternu." Why do you try to put yourself above others? Is it because this is an anonymous forum? Are you as arrogant to people face to face as you are on this forum? Probably not.

You are right about one thing, I did inherit my faith and I am proud of it. So, now I await your "raw invective" response with your $5.00 words.
I have never been to any kind of Mardi Gras myself, but I understand that participation is not limited to Catholics.

As for Lent, if persons/families wish dedicate several weeks of extra devotion to God - going to church everyday, fasting, praying, etc. who's business is it?

Might be a good idea if more people tried it sometime during the year.
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
God...you are so arrogant! You just can't stand the fact that someone doesn't believe the same way you do. Why such hostility toward the Catholic Church?

I know what I believe and I know that you are hostile toward the Catholic Church, that's enough for me. There is nothing I can say that will change your mind about me or the Catholic Church, or lesson your hostility toward me or the Church. You are just one arrogant individual! BTW...your hostile response won me a free lunch from a co-worker...Thanks

Hi Smokey,

In your response above to Beter, personally I have no problem with you or the Roman Catholic church -- as long as you realize that you are not saved by the church. The Roman Catholic church cannot save anyone; just at the Law could not and cannot save the Jews or anyone else. On the other hand, regardless of which church a person attends -- if you have, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- invited Him to come into your heart and be the Lord and Savior of your life (Revelation 3:20) -- you are a saved Christian believer. As Jesus told Nicodemus, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3)

We all should notice that Jesus does not tell NIcodemus, "Unless one is Roman Catholic, or Baptist, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

There is a beautiful Southern Gospel song which explains it better than I ever could:

IT'S NOT WHAT'S OVER THE DOOR

1. Some people think today,
If heaven you would see,
You must belong to their church,
Or be lost eternally.
But according to God's word,
What He's still looking for,
Is what He finds within your heart,
And not what's Over the door.


Chorus:
It's not what's over the door
Of the church that you attend,
That makes you a child of God,
And a heavenly citizen.
As the eyes of the Lord look this world o'er,
There's just one thing He's lookin' for
Can't you see that's what's in your heart
And not what's over the door.


2. Does Jesus live in your heart,
And have you been born again,
Has the blood of Calvary's Lamb,
Washed away all your sins?
Are you fully trusting in,
The crucified risen Lord,
Can't you see that it's what's in your heart,
And not what's over the door.


So, Beter and Smokey, we have to go with the Bible as the sole authority and realize, as we are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Therefore, if we are asking another if he/she is a saved believer, we do not ask which church they attend -- but, instead, "Have you, by grace, through faith, invited Jesus Christ to come in and be the sole Lord, Master, and Savior in your heart and in your life?" If a person has sincerely done this, he/she is a Christian brother/sister regardless of the church they attend.

But, Smokey, I do have one question for you. You tell Beter, "God...you are so arrogant!" Why are you using God's name to add emphasis to your statement? That is a form of swearing -- and all churches that I know teach that we "do not take the Lord's name in vain." And, my Friend, by using HIs name in such a manner -- that is exactly what you have done.

My Friends, let's continue to dialogue about the Word of God and HIs will and His plan for our lives. But, let's remember that, as believers, we are all members of the same family -- the Family of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Elvis Wearing a Bra on Head:
We really don't need to take beternU seriously; he's full of rancid hatred for Catholics and their church. He needs just to take a chill pill and Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform!

Hi Elvis,

I don't know which church you attend -- and it is irrelevant at this point. But, let me ask you: is your intent with this post to reconcile the differences between Smokey and Beter -- or to throw gasoline on the small flame of their disagreement?

Are you trying to stop a disagreement -- or fanning the flames to get a larger fire?

You may throw back a cute remark to my questions to avoid answering. However, one day we all will stand before Him who WILL have an answer from us for all of our words and deeds in this life. How will you answer these questions when He asks them?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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smokey 1 says:

[QUOTE] What is it about the Catholic Church that just pisses you off? I'm not going to debate doctrine with you because like I said earlier, I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. But what do you have against the Catholic Church? Why do you care so much about the Catholic Church that you take any chance you are given to attack it?[QUOTE]

Since you are unwilling to debate doctrine, it seems to me that you are thus unable to enter into any kind of substantive discussion regarding what the Catholic church believes and teaches. "Doctrine" is not a mysterious word by any means, since it basically just means "teaching." DOCTRINE is what the Catholic Church is about. DOCTRINE is what defines the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church's catechism is a 1.5-inch thick book packed from cover to cover with--guess what--DOCTRINE. There IS no Catholic Church without DOCTRINE.

I must therefore conclude that you are not willing to follow the imperative set forth by the Apostle (and alleged first Pope) Peter, when he wrote these instructions to Christians:

I. Peter 3:15:

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

You apparently regard me as an "evildoer" in light of my criticism of the Catholic Church. Are you ready, then, as Peter tells you to be, to "give an answer for reason of the hope that is in you"??

Or is there perhaps some Catholic DOCTRINE that would inhibit you from defending your faith through means other than insult?
quote:
In your response above to Beter, personally I have no problem with you or the Roman Catholic church -- as long as you realize that you are not saved by the church. The Roman Catholic church cannot save anyone; just at the Law could not and cannot save the Jews or anyone else.


This a common slap taken against Catholics.

It is ridiculous that any one believes that belonging to a church saves them. It is ridiculous that anyone would believe that anyone else would believe such drivel.

However, churches are here to provide help and guidance along the path of life.
quote:
Originally posted by Freida:
[QUOTE]In your response above to Beter, personally I have no problem with you or the Roman Catholic church -- as long as you realize that you are not saved by the church. The Roman Catholic church cannot save anyone; just at the Law could not and cannot save the Jews or anyone else.


This a common slap taken against Catholics.

It is ridiculous that any one believes that belonging to a church saves them. It is ridiculous that anyone would believe that anyone else would believe such drivel.
[QUOTE]

Well, Frieda, here is a pretty important Catholic who apparently believed it:

"Whoever is separated from this Catholic Church, by this single sin of being separated from the unity of Christ, no matter how estimable a life he may imagine he is living, shall not have life, but the wrath of God rests upon him." ...from: AUGUSTINE Letters 141:5 (A.D. 412)
AUGUSTINE also believed that women should suffer in childbirth, that sex for reasons other than having children was BAD, BAD, BAD, that women could not baptise ('cause they are women)and many other screwy things like:

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell."
– St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37.

Of course he believed that the earth was flat and the heavens went twirling around it.

Saint Augustine appealed to the Pauline-apocalyptic understanding of the forgiveness of sin, but he also included the notion that sin is transmitted from generation to generation by the act of procreation. (Oh dear me.)


Augustine's crazies are not cannon law thank goodness!
I love Mardi Gras!...
I have attended , both Mobile and New Orleans.
I even have a friend who throws a party, here, in N. Alabama, every year.
Gumbo...trinkets...bonfires..."Pagan sex rituals"...LOUD music...
Can't wait for "Ash Wednesday"...when I can put my finger in the ashtray...and dob it in between my eyes...
quote:
Originally posted by Freida:
AUGUSTINE also believed that women should suffer in childbirth, that sex for reasons other than having children was BAD, BAD, BAD, that women could not baptise ('cause they are women)and many other screwy things like:

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell."
– St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37.

Of course he believed that the earth was flat and the heavens went twirling around it.

Saint Augustine appealed to the Pauline-apocalyptic understanding of the forgiveness of sin, but he also included the notion that sin is transmitted from generation to generation by the act of procreation. (Oh dear me.)


Augustine's crazies are not cannon law thank goodness!


Try this, then:

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation" (CCC 774–776), and states: "The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men" (CCC 780).

Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.

Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be ****ed.

The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).

Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics."

SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/librar...tside_the_Church.asp

And this source is authoritative. It bears the IMPRIMATUR of high officialdom of the Catholic Church:

"NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004"
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Looks as though Smokey1 has burned out of hot air and venom. He never had enough substance to set anything on fire.


Venom? That's the pot calling the kettle black. No hot air or venom here. There is no way I'm going to change your mind and you certainly aren't goiing to change mine.

Like I said before, you are an arrogant person who believes he is better and smarter than anyone else so there is no debating with a person like you.
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Looks as though Smokey1 has burned out of hot air and venom. He never had enough substance to set anything on fire.


Venom? That's the pot calling the kettle black. No hot air or venom here. There is no way I'm going to change your mind and you certainly aren't goiing to change mine.

Like I said before, you are an arrogant person who believes he is better and smarter than anyone else so there is no debating with a person like you.


Your smoke-blowing is insufficient to cover up your evasiveness. I suspect that your problem is that you are actually so unschooled in what you believe and why you believe it that you are incapable of defending it. Thus far, you have not offered one tiny grain of substance in response to the detailed information and argumentation I have posted. That is not a very impressive way to defend your faith.
Matthew 10:14, "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."

Mark 6:11, "Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

Luke 9:5, "And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."

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quote:
Originally posted by Disappointed:
Arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded.

Hi Dis,

For the most part, you are right. I liken it to a "spitting contest" -- like kids on the playground seeing who can spit the farthest.

Or, you may look at it like "spitting into the wind" -- where most ends up in your own face.

However, a good dialogue can be very fruitful -- for we never know when one tiny seed of knowledge, or Biblical truth, will land in fertile soil -- and a soul be led toward the Lord.

I have one man on my Friends Ministry mail list who tells me that my eNewsletter e-mails brought him back into fellowship with the Lord. What did I write that did this? I have no idea -- it could be just a word, a suggestion, or a Scripture verse shared at the right moment.

So, the Religion Forum is a very worthwhile venue for sharing.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Disappointed:
Arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded.


That comment, ole son, is a pretty certain indicator that YOU have little or no talent for argumentation, discussion and debate. An internet FORUM is a place for open and public discussion, which more often than not includes differences of opinion and energetic debate. If you don't like it and can't take it, then buzz off and leave matters to folks who think that ideas matter.
quote:
Originally posted by Disappointed:
Arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded.


From what you have posted, it would appear that you must be unskilled in the arts of argumentation, discussion and debate. An internet FORUM is a public venue for the expression of ideas and opinions and for healthy debate of same. If you are incompetent to participate in that manner, then find something else to do and take your silly characterizations ("retarded") elsewhere. Perhaps your excitment lies in other areas equal to your talent, such as watching paint dry. To each his/her own, but GETTOUDDAHERE with your silly-ass "retarded" business.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Looks as though Smokey1 has burned out of hot air and venom. He never had enough substance to set anything on fire.


Venom? That's the pot calling the kettle black. No hot air or venom here. There is no way I'm going to change your mind and you certainly aren't goiing to change mine.

Like I said before, you are an arrogant person who believes he is better and smarter than anyone else so there is no debating with a person like you.


Your smoke-blowing is insufficient to cover up your evasiveness. I suspect that your problem is that you are actually so unschooled in what you believe and why you believe it that you are incapable of defending it. Thus far, you have not offered one tiny grain of substance in response to the detailed information and argumentation I have posted. That is not a very impressive way to defend your faith.


Why won't you tell me what you have against the Catholic Church?
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by smokey1:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Looks as though Smokey1 has burned out of hot air and venom. He never had enough substance to set anything on fire.


Venom? That's the pot calling the kettle black. No hot air or venom here. There is no way I'm going to change your mind and you certainly aren't goiing to change mine.

Like I said before, you are an arrogant person who believes he is better and smarter than anyone else so there is no debating with a person like you.


Your smoke-blowing is insufficient to cover up your evasiveness. I suspect that your problem is that you are actually so unschooled in what you believe and why you believe it that you are incapable of defending it. Thus far, you have not offered one tiny grain of substance in response to the detailed information and argumentation I have posted. That is not a very impressive way to defend your faith.


Why won't you tell me what you have against the Catholic Church?


For starters, consider the "anathemas" or curses of d*a*m*nation pronounced by the Catholic Council of Trent against any and all who happen to hold doctrinal views differing from those of the Catholic Church on a multiplicity of subjects. When announcing Vatican II, Pope John XXIII stated that the precepts of the Council of Trent continue to the modern day, a position that was reaffirmed by Pope Paul VI. Thus the following edicts of d*a*m*nation againstthose who dissent with Catholic doctrine are still in force today.
"Has the Roman Catholic Church changed its basic doctrinal position in this present ecumenical era? The answer is no, it has not. The Council of Trent was a Catholic council held from 1545-1563 in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation. This council denied every Reformation doctrine, including Scripture alone and grace alone. Trent hurled 125 anathemas (eternal ****ations) against Bible-believing Christians. These proclamations and anathemas were fleshed out in the murderous persecutions vented upon Bible-believing Christians by Rome, and the solemn fact is that the Council of Trent has never been annulled. The Vatican II Council of the mid-1960s referred to Trent dozens of times, quoted Trent’s proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand. The New Catholic Catechism cites Trent no less than 99 times. There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome. At the opening of the Second Vatican Council, Pope John XXIII stated, 'I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent.' Every cardinal, bishop and priest who participated in the Vatican II Council signed a document affirming Trent."

So who's harsh and intolerant now?


See very last entry below for Pope Paul VI endorsement of Trent

Links: http://www.biblebc.com/Roman%2...summary_of_trent.htm

http://www.biblebc.com/Roman%2...il_of_trent_full.htm

FROM: Mysterium Fidei (Mystery of Faith)
Pope Paul VI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Encyclical Letter of His Holiness promulgated on 3 September 1965:

"These words fully accord with the doctrine of the mystery of the Eucharistic change as set forth by the ecumenical councils. The constant teaching of these councils—of the Lateran, of Constance, Florence and Trent— whether stating the teaching of the Church or condemning errors, affords us an admirable example of the unchangingness of the Catholic Faith."The constant teaching of these councils—of the Lateran, of Constance, Florence and Trent— whether stating the teaching of the Church or condemning errors, affords us an admirable example of the unchangingness of the Catholic Faith."
beternU posted:

So who's harsh and intolerant now?

That would be God the Father/Holy Trinity,,,,,

But always exceptionally forgiving, to the point of the sacrifice 
of his own Son.....
 
Of all the animal kingdom has to offer, the human race is by far
the most harsh and intolerant species created by the hand of God
and only to be dealt with a degree of harshness as needed.  
 
The most successful transfer to the Heavens is as much faith and
self control a person can maintain in this very short life.

SMOKEY1

BETERNU would never do or say anything to express a word or
action for the love of God himself. 

 

What he'll do daily is translate and inform the Father and Jesus
the meaning of various Bible verses, so they can stay on the same
page and keep up with Beternu's new understanding of that Book... 

Although I don't give anything up for lent we do celebrate Mardi Gras. [When we were kids my dad always gave up smoking. We HATED lent cause he was crabby the whole time, we couldn't wait for Easter.]

We help a friend do a party every year and have a big cast iron pot of gumbo, crayfish cornbread and King cake. There are lots of beads around.

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