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Hi Chick and Ubu,

 

This just emphasizes what the Bible tells us, and what I have often said:  We are all sinners (Romans 3:23) and have fallen short of God's desire for us.   Yet, those who, by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) believe and receive His gift of eternal life are His children (John 1:12).   Those who hear the Gospel and believe are indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) -- and will never lose that sealed faith and promised eternal life (Ephesians 4:30).

 

Yet, many only wear the Christian hat and do not share the true Gospel -- including many who wear the title of pastor/teacher.   However, it is not for us to decide if a person is saved.  That is between that person and God.  But, we must ALL (believers and non-believers) face Jesus Christ one day to answer for all (word and deed) that we do in this life.

 

Could that young man be a true Christian believer?   Yes.  Just as a homosexual can turn from that lifestyle and turn to follow Christ -- so can a person who is addicted to other sins, such as impersonating a police officer.  Yes, that can be an addiction, the need to be something one is not.

 

(Okay, Chick, there is your opening!  Run with it, girl!)

 

You and I cannot say what is in that young man's heart; but, God knows.  So, yes, Chick -- if he is saved, he DOES HAVE eternal security, he will spend eternity in the presence of God.

 

Have you sinned today?   I am sure that I have; but, I know He will forgive me.

 

First, John tells us that all who have fellowship with Jesus Christ walks in His Light:

 

1 John 1:5-7, "This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.  If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

 

And, John tells us that, if we walk in His Light, even though we stumble and fall -- He will forgive us:

 

1 John 1:8-9, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

 

And, if we walk in His Light, He has made us a new person -- a person who WILL live eternally in the presence of the Lord:

 

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

 

Chick, my Friend, you might want to read and ponder the rest of this article:

 

Question: "Eternal security - is it biblical?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-security.html

Answer:  When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

1 Corinthians 3_13-15 - Glory of God

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The  verses below are perhaps most the misinterpreted of all Bible verses by the OSAS crowd. Several times on this forum  I have patiently shown Bill Gray why, when read in context, these verses simply do NOT support the OSAS Calvinistic heresy.  Bill typically just ignores what I have posted, evidencing his incapability to apply his own standards for Biblical interpretation when the outcome flies in the face of his biases.  

 

The analogy used by Paul in I Cor. 3:13-15 is one where  church occupies the position of "God's building."(v. 9). Paul, Apollos, and others (v.. 6) who won converts were placing stones on the foundation, Jesus Christ (v. 11 & 12). But Paul cautions that not all the building elements placed on the foundation were "precious stones" or gold or silver (v. 12). Sometimes, in this life, that which is placed on the foundation is of inferior stuff that will not endure: "wood, hay, stubble" (v 12). But in the end--just as in the parable of the tares (Matt. 13: 23-30)--both the the genuine and the corrupt will be revealed.

The "loss" Paul writes of in verse 15 is not the loss, per se, of those who prove in the end not to have been faithful. They claimed a place among the "gold, silver, precious stones," but they did not endure and their true nature will, in the end, be revealed "as by fire." They will indeed be lost, but In this context, the loss is to those builders who brought those converts into the "building" (the church). It is they who who will suffer the loss, or disappointment that is particularly described here, by having learned that the wood, hay, and stubble they laid in the foundation did not endure.  Nevertheless the "builder", being in this analogy the evangelist, will himself be saved. He will not be held accountable for the failure of others; each man is accountable for himself before God.  Here, the "loss" that is suffered is simply the loss sustained by the one who was in this life engaged in building of the church (the same building that Paul, Apollos, etc. were building by placing converts, upon Christ as the foundation) and who sees some of that  "work" failing to endure.

It is an overbroad extension  of the context to expand this analogy to include the totality of a man's works. That is not what Paul is writing about. Nor is he positing an accounting of those sins that would require some kind of post-mortem reconciliation (the alleged "fire" of purgatory). Paul here is specifically dealing with church building, with the principle that there are false brethren (he elsewhere complained of "perils of false brethren" 2 Cor. 11:26) and insincere "converts," but that in the end their true nature will be revealed. It might be convenient to your argument to stretch the limited context of this passage to try to show that it embraces all the "works," of a person's life, but honest hermeneutics will not permit that. interpretation.

 

Bill attempts to justify his OSAS doctrine by arguing that the passages that seem to teach that a believer can be lost are not really such, that the persons described "never were saved in the first place."  Here in this I Corinthians passage we have a description of some persons who actually were never saved in the first place, and whose falsity in life is disclosed in judgment (with nothing there to suggest that any of them can redeem their lost states througn penance after death) and of others whose faithfulness is proven in trial.  Bill's Calvinist slant  entirely misses the point by asserting that all of them were, after all, saved--that it was just "their works" that were burned up.  The Pauline description analogizes the true believers and the false Christians to different categories of building materials  and concludes that when put to the test, the true (saved)  and the false (lost) will be revealed.    

 

 

Matt Pitt became well known as the charismatic youth pastor of "The Basement," one of America's largest Christian youth ministries, which he founded in 2004 in his parents' basement.

Now he's making headlines for his erratic criminal behavior which include impersonating a police officer twice, and jumping off a 45-foot cliff in a last ditch attempt to evade arrest by the police.

Pitt resisted arrest on August 20 after a bizarre TV interview with Alabama's 13 about the charges. He ran from the cops, jumping over a 45-foot cliff in his escape attempt, before he was taken into custody by the Birmingham police after a short struggle. Though he's been wanted since his second incident of police impersonation in June, he refused to surrender to authorities. The troubled pastor has been the subject of longstanding rumors of drug abuse, and the results of a Wednesday drug test are forthcoming.

His problems began in 2012, when he pleaded guilty in September to a reduced charge of attempting to impersonate a police officer and was sentenced to a year in jail. However, the sentence was suspended and he was told to serve two years on unsupervised probation and pay a $1,000 fine. Authorities are now asking for Pitt's probation to be revoked after this most recent incident, and it's highly likely that he will serve jail time.

Since the arrests, some people associated with The Basement have come forward to express their reservations about Pitt and his problems, alleging that Pitt wanted to be a "Lone Ranger." An unidentified board member said to AL.com, "We saw him going down the wrong way. He pushed everybody away."

Birmingham Evangelist Scott Dawson urged people to remember the concrete good done by The Basement as it helped them to connect with God. "We certainly need to pray for Matt and his family," Dawson noted. "It doesn't change the impact on people's lives. They didn't respond to Matt, they responded to Christ. Christ is the one that can changes lives."

 

 *************************************************

Unbelievable that there are people taking up for him. He sounds deranged. I wonder what kind of 'concrete good' he thinks someone like this could be doing. Just more bad behavior being allowed because someone claims to be a christian.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...cliff_n_3822712.html

 

Last edited by Bestworking

Contendah, my Friend,

 

This Scripture passage in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is very clear, just a Paul wrote it:

 

Jesus Christ is the Foundation:

 

1 Corinthians 3:10-11, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it.  But let each one take heed how he builds on it.  (11) For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

 

In our Christian walk, we are building upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  If we are faithful in following the Great Commission given us by Christ (Matthew 28:19-20), our work is seen as gold, silver, precious stones -- which will endure eternally.

 

If we are "couch potato" Christians who decide, "Well, I will tell folks about Jesus.  But, I will just sit on my couch and wait for them to come and ask me" -- then that person is building a foundation upon wood, hay, straw -- which will not endure.


1 Corinthians 3:12, "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw." 

 

We know from Scripture (2 Corinthians 5:10) that everyone, believer and non-believer, WILL stand in judgment before Jesus Christ.  The believer (Great Commission faithful and "couch potato") will have our work tested when we stand before Him and account for our deeds and words in this life.


1 Corinthians 3:13, "Each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test (refiner's fire, Malachi 3:2)each one's work, of what sort it is."

 

And, we know that in heaven all believers will stand before Him at the Believers' Judgment, a judgement of rewards, or lack of rewards.    But, the greatest reward is that we will already be in heaven when we stand in judgment.


1 Corinthians 3:14-15, "If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. (15) If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss (of rewards, not loss of salvation); but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

 

Contendah, my Friend, I don't know how Paul could have made it more clear.

 

But, if you do not want to believe the apostle Paul in his Holy Spirit inspired writings, okay!  Yet, that tells us that you also do not believe God -- for He is the One who inspired Paul to write this Scripture passage.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - Author Always Present

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

This Scripture passage in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is very clear, just a Paul wrote it:

 

Jesus Christ is the Foundation:

 

1 Corinthians 3:10-11, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it.  But let each one take heed how he builds on it.  (11) For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

 

In our Christian walk, we are building upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  If we are faithful in following the Great Commission given us by Christ (Matthew 28:19-20), our work is seen as gold, silver, precious stones -- which will endure eternally.

 

If we are "couch potato" Christians who decide, "Well, I will tell folks about Jesus.  But, I will just sit on my couch and wait for them to come and ask me" -- then that person is building a foundation upon wood, hay, straw -- which will not endure.


1 Corinthians 3:12, "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw." 

 

We know from Scripture (2 Corinthians 5:10) that everyone, believer and non-believer, WILL stand in judgment before Jesus Christ.  The believer (Great Commission faithful and "couch potato") will have our work tested when we stand before Him and account for our deeds and words in this life.


1 Corinthians 3:13, "Each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test (refiner's fire, Malachi 3:2)each one's work, of what sort it is."

 

And, we know that in heaven all believers will stand before Him at the Believers' Judgment, a judgement of rewards, or lack of rewards.    But, the greatest reward is that we will already be in heaven when we stand in judgment.


1 Corinthians 3:14-15, "If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. (15) If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss (of rewards, not loss of salvation); but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

 

Contendah, my Friend, I don't know how Paul could have made it more clear.

 

But, if you do not want to believe the apostle Paul in his Holy Spirit inspired writings, okay!  Yet, that tells us that you also do not believe God -- for He is the One who inspired Paul to write this Scripture passage.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - Author Always Present

____

It is patently clear just what kind of analogy Paui was constructing.  Each of the points in his analogy fits cleanly with the interpretation I have provided, but you have to chop and stretch in a failed effort to fit that analogy to your OSAS preconception. I will leave it to the readers of this forum to decide the matter for themselves, hopefully without their feeling compelled to apply irrelevant notions strained from premillennialist multiple-judgment scenarios. .

Last edited by Contendah

I can just imagine what Bill is saying about this "Christian" Pastor. If any of us say something is black, you can bet Bill will say it's white. Of course, he doesn't fool me with his lies. I know for a fact he's not a Christian because if the Bible is true, it says Bill is not.

As for this youth Pastor, 1st Timothy 3:1-7 tells just how much above reproach a pastor should be.Verse 6 says he must have self-control & not have violent tendencies. That one verse rules this man out. The leaders of that church is wrong in supporting this man & letting him stand at the pulpit.

Contendah, my Friend,

 

Paul tells us:

 

1 Corinthians 3:14-15, "If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. (15) If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss (of rewards, not loss of salvation); but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

 

How could that mean anything except:  "but he himself will be saved" ?

 

Paul is speaking of the believer whose work has been tested.  So, what does Paul say?

 

"But he himself will be saved!

 

Gee, I am having trouble making that mean anything else.  You speak of stretching.  To make "But he himself will be saved!" -- mean anything except that the person being tested is saved -- requires a REALLY BIG stretch.
 

So, my Friend, how would YOU explain that passage?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

I can just imagine what Bill is saying about this "Christian" Pastor. If any of us say something is black, you can bet Bill will say it's white. Of course, he doesn't fool me with his lies. I know for a fact he's not a Christian because if the Bible is true, it says Bill is not.

As for this youth Pastor, 1st Timothy 3:1-7 tells just how much above reproach a pastor should be.Verse 6 says he must have self-control & not have violent tendencies. That one verse rules this man out. The leaders of that church is wrong in supporting this man & letting him stand at the pulpit.

------------------------------------------

I don't have a clue what he is saying myself. I am kinda liking this ignore feature. Never used it before, but if I had to guess, the conversation probably has nothing to do with this young man. I would bet the thread was hijacked a long time ago..........

Originally Posted by Ubu:
 I don't have a clue what he is saying myself. I am kinda liking this ignore feature. Never used it before, but if I had to guess, the conversation probably has nothing to do with this young man. I would bet the thread was hijacked a long time ago..........

______

I don't have a clue either, that's why I said I can imagine what he's saying. We all know the routine because we've heard the same thing for so long.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Ubu:
 I don't have a clue what he is saying myself. I am kinda liking this ignore feature. Never used it before, but if I had to guess, the conversation probably has nothing to do with this young man. I would bet the thread was hijacked a long time ago..........

______

I don't have a clue either, that's why I said I can imagine what he's saying. We all know the routine because we've heard the same thing for so long.

semicoma hates Christians.

quote: Originally Posted by Quaildog:
quote: Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote: Originally Posted by Ubu:
 I don't have a clue what he is saying myself. I am kinda liking this ignore feature. Never used it before, but if I had to guess, the conversation probably has nothing to do with this young man. I would bet the thread was hijacked a long time ago..........

I don't have a clue either, that's why I said I can imagine what he's saying. We all know the routine because we've heard the same thing for so long.

semicoma hates Christians.
Hi Quail,

 

No, I don't believe she hates ALL Christians, only those who will tell her the Truth of the Bible.  She keeps telling us that she wants to go to hell.  I find that difficult to believe for several reasons:  (1) I am assuming that Chick is a rather intelligent person -- and no intelligent, or even semi-intelligent person, would purposely choose an eternity of pain over an eternity of joy and happiness.  And, (2) I believe she is afraid to get too close to God -- for then she would have to be accountable to Him, and she wants to be in total control of her life.

 

Being in "total" control of one's human life -- is rather like being in control of a car which is in free fall over a cliff.   We all need a "safety net" -- which is God.  Yet, some folks like our Friend, Chick, keeps yelling, "I like the falling!  I like the falling!"    If she stays on this course, one day she will hit bottom -- and realize that it was not so much fun after all.  But, of course, then it will be too late.

 

Our Friend, Chick, and all our atheist, agnostic, secular, and vanilla-flavored non-believing Friends really need to reach out to God for His Spiritual Parachute which will lift them into eternal heaven.  Otherwise, there will be a really big, eternal splash at the end of that "free fall."

 

God willing, Christians will continue to pray for our lost Friends -- and, in some way, help them reach that "Spiritual Parachute" God is offering.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

God Is Like Oxygen

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Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote: Originally Posted by Quaildog:
quote: Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote: Originally Posted by Ubu:
 I don't have a clue what he is saying myself. I am kinda liking this ignore feature. Never used it before, but if I had to guess, the conversation probably has nothing to do with this young man. I would bet the thread was hijacked a long time ago..........

I don't have a clue either, that's why I said I can imagine what he's saying. We all know the routine because we've heard the same thing for so long.

semicoma hates Christians.
Hi Quail,

 

No, I don't believe she hates ALL Christians, only those who will tell her the Truth of the Bible.  She keeps telling us that she wants to go to hell.  I find that difficult to believe for several reasons:  (1) I am assuming that Chick is a rather intelligent person -- and no intelligent, or even semi-intelligent person, would purposely choose an eternity of pain over an eternity of joy and happiness.  And, (2) I believe she is afraid to get too close to God -- for then she would have to be accountable to Him, and she wants to be in total control of her life.

 

Being in "total" control of one's human life -- is rather like being in control of a car which is in free fall over a cliff.   We all need a "safety net" -- which is God.  Yet, some folks like our Friend, Chick, keeps yelling, "I like the falling!  I like the falling!"    If she stays on this course, one day she will hit bottom -- and realize that it was not so much fun after all.  But, of course, then it will be too late.

 

Our Friend, Chick, and all our atheist, agnostic, secular, and vanilla-flavored non-believing Friends really need to reach out to God for His Spiritual Parachute which will lift them into eternal heaven.  Otherwise, there will be a really big, eternal splash at the end of that "free fall."

 

God willing, Christians will continue to pray for our lost Friends -- and, in some way, help them reach that "Spiritual Parachute" God is offering.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

God Is Like Oxygen

============

When are you going to answer Crusty's question?

quote:   Originally Posted by smokey1:
When are you going to answer Crusty's question? 

Smokey, my Friend,

 

Can you feel the excitement building?  It is like the premier of a new Hollywood movie!   When will it happen?

 

Patience, my Friend, is a virtue.   I will soon dispatch our Friend, Crusty.   Just think how great it will be -- after all the excitement -- to finally have the answer.  Wow!

 

Bless your impatient little heart!

 

Bill

Gimme A Hug

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Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

Paul tells us:

 

1 Corinthians 3:14-15, "If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. (15) If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss (of rewards, not loss of salvation); but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

 

How could that mean anything except:  "but he himself will be saved" ?

 

Paul is speaking of the believer whose work has been tested.  So, what does Paul say?

 

"But he himself will be saved!

 

Gee, I am having trouble making that mean anything else.  You speak of stretching.  To make "But he himself will be saved!" -- mean anything except that the person being tested is saved -- requires a REALLY BIG stretch.
 

So, my Friend, how would YOU explain that passage?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

___

No stretch at all, Bill.

 

The "work" discussed by Paul in this passage is not the accumulated good works of a believer's lifetime--as you STRETCH in vainly attempting to show.

 

The "work" to which Paul refers, as strongly supported by the context (something you tout as of critical importance when you think it suits your perverse theology and ignore when it does not), is the product of evangelical labor, namely the "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay or stubble" placed on the "foundation" (Jesus Christ).  These commodities stand for the several kinds of persons who come into the church, either ostensible or true converts.  Paul is saying that in the end, it will be made manifest by fire which of these "converts" are true and which are false.  He is also saying that the evangelist's salvation will not be compromised if some of those he taught prove false.  He himself will be saved even if they (the "wood, hay, stubble") are lost eternally.

 

Your glaring error is that you are attempting to interpret the "work" of verses 13-15 as the total product of a believer's service---the "works" of the Christian life. But Paul is not saying that at all. He is simply saying  that God, as a just judge, will not hold the "builder" (i.e. the evangelist) accountable for the failure of those whom he taught  who either reject the faith or who were never true converts to begin with. 

 

Bill Gray,

 

You also say, "To make 'But he himself will be saved!' -- mean anything except that the person being tested is saved -- requires a REALLY BIG stretch."

 

Here you really miss the issue altogether.  The persons being tested are the converts (gold, silver...etc.), not the one who labored to convert them.  The testing  is not administered to the evangelist, but to the universe of those to whom he preached, some of whom will survive the test and others of whom will be consumed.  The entire text, from verses 5-15, is clearly an analogy relating to evangelization (church building) and to the kinds of persons to whom an evangelist directs his evangelical efforts, those materials he places on the "foundation" (v. 12).  Some who are tested will be lost and some will be saved; but the "builder", that is the evangelist, will not be accountable to God for those who, because of their own insincerity, faithlessness or whatever other reason, are ultimately lost.

 

Wake up and smell the analogy, Bill. Thus far you seem to have not even noticed it.

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You keep yelling, "Analogy!  Analogy!"

 

Would you mind giving us an exegetical explanation, in your own words and from Scripture, of how that "analogy" gets into Scripture which does not even hint of it?

 

It is very clear that Paul is speaking of believers in 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 -- and non-believers are nowhere to be found in that passage.  So much for your "analogy."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible Inspired By God

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Last edited by Bill Gray

 

1 Cor 3: 10-15

 

10 With what grace God has bestowed on me, I have laid a foundation as a careful architect should; it is left for someone else to build upon it. Only, whoever builds on it must be careful how he builds. 

11 The foundation which has been laid is the only one which anybody can lay; I mean Jesus Christ. 

12 But on this foundation different men will build in gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, or straw, 

13 and each man’s workmanship will be plainly seen. It is the day of the Lord that will disclose it, since that day is to reveal itself in fire, and fire will test the quality of each man’s workmanship. 

14 He will receive a reward, if the building he has added on stands firm; 

15 if it is burnt up, he will be the loser; and yet he himself will be saved, though only as men are saved by passing through fire

 

1 Cor 3 : 16-23

 

16 Do you not understand that you are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit has his dwelling in you? 

17 If anybody desecrates the temple of God, God will bring him to ruin. It is a holy thing, this temple of God which is nothing other than yourselves.[3] 

18 You must not deceive yourselves, any of you, about this. If any of you thinks he is wise, after the fashion of his fellow men, he must turn himself into a fool, so as to be truly wise. 

19 This world’s wisdom, with God, is but folly. So we read in scripture, I will entrap the wise with their own cunning.[4] 

20 And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, and how empty they are.[5] 

21 Nobody, therefore, should repose his confidence in men. 

22 Everything is for you, whether it be Paul, or Apollo, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or the present, or the future; it is all for you,[6] 

23 and you for Christ, and Christ for God.

 

http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1co003.htm

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You keep yelling, "Analogy!  Analogy!"

 

Would you mind giving us an exegetical explanation, in your own words and from Scripture, of how that "analogy" gets into Scripture which does not even hint of it?

 

It is very clear that Paul is speaking of believers in 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 -- and non-believers are nowhere to be found in that passage.  So much for your "analogy."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible Inspired By God

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have not yelled at all, Bill.  I have attempted in plain language many times to explain this particular analogy to you, but you steadfastly refuse to recognize it, though it stares you in the face.

 

The analogy in the passage at issue is one that contemplates a "building" (verse 9), a "wise master-builder" (Paul; see v. 10); other builders (v.10); "laborers" (v. 9);a "foundation" for the building, namely Jesus Christ (v.11); elements that are laid in the foundation (v.12), some of which will abide and some of which will perish (v. (vs. 13-15). The particular labor  involved in the building pictured here is the labor of evangelism, as is clear from Paul's introduction in vs. 5-7. The product or "work" of that labor is, as described in the narrative, a mixed product, which Paul metaphorically characterizes as "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble." (v. 12).

 

Christ is the foundation of His church.  Those who build upon Christ, the foundation, do so by going into the world and preaching the Gospel to the lost, as did Paul and Apollos ("ministers by whom ye believed"--v.5).  But not all who hear and profess to accept the Gospel are sound and genuine elements suitable for laying upon the foundation.  Fire will be an ultimate test of which "work", i.e. which "converts" are true and genuine and which are false.  The evangelist who, like Paul and Apollos, sadly finds that some of his work ("converts") were of the baser kind (wood, hay, stubble") will suffer the loss of that part of his work, however sincere and diligent he might have been in his preaching.  Concluding the analogy, Paul makes it clear that the evangelist will not be held accountable for that loss.  Each of us is responsible for his own behavior, whether to accept or to reject God's graceful offer of salvation.  Much of the same concept is taught in Matthew 13: 18-24,  the "parable of the sower," where Jesus describes how the word of God, as "seed" sown by a "sower" is embraced by some and rejected by others.

 

Bill, the analogy is hard to miss.  I have explained it clearly and in detail, and without any yelling whatsoever.  If you still can not see it, I suggest that you  schedule a visit, very soon, to the nearest consulting psychologist, who will help you to focus whatever rational processes you have thus far retained.

Last edited by Contendah
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You keep yelling, "Analogy!  Analogy!"

 

Would you mind giving us an exegetical explanation, in your own words and from Scripture, of how that "analogy" gets into Scripture which does not even hint of it?

 

It is very clear that Paul is speaking of believers in 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 -- and non-believers are nowhere to be found in that passage.  So much for your "analogy."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

___________________

 

Whether it is an analogy or not, Bill, you "build" with dung.

quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
quote:  Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You keep yelling, "Analogy!  Analogy!"

 

Would you mind giving us an exegetical explanation, in your own words and from Scripture, of how that "analogy" gets into Scripture which does not even hint of it?

 

It is very clear that Paul is speaking of believers in 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 -- and non-believers are nowhere to be found in that passage.  So much for your "analogy."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,   Bill

 

Whether it is an analogy or not, Bill, you "build" with dung.

Crusty, my Friend,

 

Let me offer you a very appropriate Scripture passage which well describes most of your comments and posts:

 

Matthew 15:16-18, "Jesus said, 'Are you still lacking in understanding also?  Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?  But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.' "

I guess that pretty well sums up your comments.  See, haven't I always told you that Jesus Christ, God, is omniscient -- knowing all that will come from the mouth, or keyboard, of all you non-believers? 

 

Bless your big mouth and little heart!

 

Bill

Mad-Mule

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Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Crusty, my Friend,

 

Let me offer you a very appropriate Scripture passage which well describes most of your comments and posts:

 

Matthew 15:16-18, "Jesus said, 'Are you still lacking in understanding also?  Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?  But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.' "

I guess that pretty well sums up your comments.  See, haven't I always told you that Jesus Christ, God, is omniscient -- knowing all that will come from the mouth, or keyboard, of all you non-believers? 

 

Bless your big mouth and little heart!

 

Bill

Mad-Mule

__________________

 

Bill's view from his mirror:

 

 

bill monkey

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Last edited by CrustyMac

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You declare, "Bill, the analogy is hard to miss.  I have explained it clearly and in detail, and without any yelling whatsoever.  If you still can not see it, I suggest that you  schedule a visit, very soon, to the nearest consulting psychologist, who will help you to focus whatever rational processes you have thus far retained."

 

My Friend, if you will visit the discussion titled "What Is 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 Telling Us?" -- you will find that your "analogy" if full of holes when we stand it alongside Scripture.

 

Of course, you can keep declaring you have an analogy; but, in all your declarations you have given NO Scriptural proof.   Therefore, your analogy is just more hot air.

 

In what you loosely describe as your "analogy proof" you do occasionally mention a few Scripture verses in passing.  But, you never tie the bow around the box.  You mention a verse and then go off on your meandering way -- hoping that with enough words you can convince people to believe you.

 

No, my Friend, that is not the way to have a Biblical discussion.  Give us a verse or passage, and exegetically explain what the writer means.   Don't just toss out a verse number -- and then go into another of your tirades.  That is not exegesis; that is a snow job.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Crusty, my Friend,

 

Let me offer you a very appropriate Scripture passage which well describes most of your comments and posts:

 

Matthew 15:16-18, "Jesus said, 'Are you still lacking in understanding also?  Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?  But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.' "

I guess that pretty well sums up your comments.  See, haven't I always told you that Jesus Christ, God, is omniscient -- knowing all that will come from the mouth, or keyboard, of all you non-believers? 

 

Bless your big mouth and little heart!

 

Bill

Mad-Mule

__________________

 

Bill's view from his mirror:

 

 

bill monkey

__________________

wait.. you mean that jackass isn't him?

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Crusty, my Friend,

 

Let me offer you a very appropriate Scripture passage which well describes most of your comments and posts:

 

Matthew 15:16-18, "Jesus said, 'Are you still lacking in understanding also?  Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?  But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.' "

I guess that pretty well sums up your comments.  See, haven't I always told you that Jesus Christ, God, is omniscient -- knowing all that will come from the mouth, or keyboard, of all you non-believers? 

 

Bless your big mouth and little heart!

 

Bill

Mad-Mule

__________________

 

Bill's view from his mirror:

 

 

bill monkey

__________________

wait.. you mean that jackass isn't him?

_____________________

It could be, except that Bill doesn't wear glasses.

Bill is so confused.  Contendah is showing him the analogy in the Bible, while Bill thinks Contendah is making some kind of analogy.  Of course, we shouldn't expect any more from someone whose own analogies are almost always failures.   Johhny probably can't even understand what I've written here, and I'll have to explain it to him.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Bill is so confused.  Contendah is showing him the analogy in the Bible, while Bill thinks Contendah is making some kind of analogy.  Of course, we shouldn't expect any more from someone whose own analogies are almost always failures.   Johhny probably can't even understand what I've written here, and I'll have to explain it to him.

____

Any  Forum members interested in the continuation of this discussion concerning 1 Cor. 15: 3-15, PLEASE TAKE NOTE:

 

Bill Gray has now performed another Bill Gray hop-scotching maneuver of the kind we have often seen on this forum.  Instead of continuing on this string, he has flitted off and begun a new string,  What Is 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 Telling Us?  .  I believe you will find my most recent entry on that string interesting, as it shows just how wacky an unwitting conclusion an OSAS-Cafeteria Calvinist like Bill can be driven to when he follows his deeply-ingrained biases instead of simply opening his eyes to the obvious.

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