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flo,,how many of those years were you living thru?
This is a valid question. i lived thru the sixties,but so young i remember only bits and pieces of all that was going on. I therefore am not jumping on a bandwagon of things which did not exist to me. I personally was raised by a very racist father,until his later years. I on the otherhand have never,even being raised by this man,never understood WHY. I am sorry for things which have happened to persons of other colors,but I did not do it, nor have I ever lived a life of a racist person.I cannot change history of things which happened before my time,nor can you,,but I can guarantee you cannot change history of what has happened either.I sense your own hostilites to events of past , reguardless how well you attempt to hide it.That is truly sad.
The time is NOW,present,and that my friend is all that ANY of us have. What we choose to do with OUR time. Do we strive to live a full life and strive to come together as a nation as a whole or do we allow past history to wallow our nation into one of its darkest times to be read about by our future generations?
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
flo,,how many of those years were you living thru?
This is a valid question. i lived thru the sixties,but so young i remember only bits and pieces of all that was going on. I therefore am not jumping on a bandwagon of things which did not exist to me. I personally was raised by a very racist father,until his later years. I on the otherhand have never,even being raised by this man,never understood WHY. I am sorry for things which have happened to persons of other colors,but I did not do it, nor have I ever lived a life of a racist person.I cannot change history of things which happened before my time,nor can you,,but I can guarantee you cannot change history of what has happened either.I sense your own hostilites to events of past , reguardless how well you attempt to hide it.That is truly sad.
The time is NOW,present,and that my friend is all that ANY of us have. What we choose to do with OUR time. Do we strive to live a full life and strive to come together as a nation as a whole or do we allow past history to wallow our nation into one of its darkest times to be read about by our future generations?


well said

However, on your point about racism being worse than lived through, I have to take issue.
Of course, none of us can predict the future, but I was in high school and college during the '60's and I can assure you that racism was at a level then that I have not seen before or since.
I seriously doubt that we have anything like that ahead of us.
Racism still exist, and always will in this country, or any other country that does not have a population almost 100% one race.
In one of my management classes they told of an experiment done in a factory. They took red and blue hats into the work force and gave them out in random order, without any explanation except they were to wear them. The psychologist then sat back and observed the outcome.
They found that during breaks, the people with red hats all grouped together, and the people with blue hats all started to group together. Within a few days, each had started to become distrustful of the other group. Now, remember, these are people who had been working together for years, only thing changed was that they had different hats.
That psychological experiment proved that it takes very little difference for you to dis-trust anybody different from yourself, even if by so little. Just something to think on.
Last edited by Seaweed
I think my remark about racism is being misunderstood. It is not meant only to folks of color,but to whites as well. I fear we are going to see an upsurge of white racist organizations with every move Obama will make ,taking everything he does out of context to be a strike against the white man. So yes I do think we are going to see racism as we have never seen it before. A different level,a different approach,and one I fear our nation is not prepared to handle.
I know of an experiment similar,only the one we did in college was using mice living in a maze we had built, just plain ole gray house mice. they lived their happy little lives, set about their little rituals of life,then we added 2 pair of white mice into the "community".
I still have my term paper i wrote on this! LOL!
quote:
I never said i was alive in the 20's through 60's. I am saying that the amount of racism now cant even come close to the amount then. Even you know that.

Then since you were not living during this peroid why is it of such importance to you? You are living NOW,your actions and reactions are NOW.
And yes it can compare,it has the possibilites of being much worse,,,just give the fuel it needs to grow.
In addition to racism, we will also see a rise in class warfare. I was young and impressive during the 60's and 70's I remember the racism back then and yes it's gotten better but it still exists ON BOTH SIDES unfortunately. The one good thing I can say about Obama's candidancy is that he showed other people of color nothing is impossible if YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH TO GET IT! No more victimization.
quote:
Originally posted by redbull:
. The one good thing I can say about Obama's candidancy is that he showed other people of color nothing is impossible if YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH TO GET IT! No more victimization.


This one thing may do more to help race relations in this country than anything since the Emancipation Proclamation, and he dosn't have to do a thing except be a good example.

One thing to consider when contemplating an Obama administration: He will almost have to be perfect to be good. By that I mean that by being the first Black to be president, he cannot afford to screw up or forever more, the argument can be made that "that's what we git if we get a Black for president" . Jackie Robinson had the same hurtle as the first Black in the major leagues.
quote:
Originally posted by vick13:
I've been meaning to ask flo that myself. I'm betting he's late twenties to mid thirties.
What does my age have to do with racism. I do have parents and grandparents. I do have older close friends, black, white, and Native American. So when I say that racism of today does not even compare to racism of the 20's-60's I have references to back it up.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
quote:
I never said i was alive in the 20's through 60's. I am saying that the amount of racism now cant even come close to the amount then. Even you know that.

Then since you were not living during this peroid why is it of such importance to you? You are living NOW,your actions and reactions are NOW.
And yes it can compare,it has the possibilities of being much worse,,,just give the fuel it needs to grow.
What are you talking about. The comment was made that racism could get worse than it has ever been. So because I was not alive in the 20's - 60's, I should not know about such things. Odd statement. I was not alive during the Great Depression but I know it happened and I have heard first hand stories of events during that time.
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
quote:
Originally posted by redbull:
. The one good thing I can say about Obama's candidancy is that he showed other people of color nothing is impossible if YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH TO GET IT! No more victimization.


This one thing may do more to help race relations in this country than anything since the Emancipation Proclamation, and he dosn't have to do a thing except be a good example.

One thing to consider when contemplating an Obama administration: He will almost have to be perfect to be good. By that I mean that by being the first Black to be president, he cannot afford to screw up or forever more, the argument can be made that "that's what we git if we get a Black for president" . Jackie Robinson had the same hurtle as the first Black in the major leagues.

That is why his campaign is backing off from all the promises so it won't appear he failed to deliver if he gets in.
Whoever wins, it will be a very emotional situation for a while.
I pray calm heads will prevail.
quote:
The one good thing I can say about Obama's candidancy is that he showed other people of color nothing is impossible if YOU WORK HARD ENOUGH TO GET IT! No more victimization.
There have always been people of color that have done great things for this country. It not only shows people of color, but it shows whites also that a black person can be just a good as a white man.
quote:
What are you talking about. The comment was made that racism could get worse than it has ever been. So because I was not alive in the 20's - 60's, I should not know about such things. Odd statement. I was not alive during the Great Depression but I know it happened and I have heard first hand stories of events during that time.

I stated in one of my other posts here flo,YOU are carrying much hostility yourself to times past,it shows in many of your posts.You attempt to hide it,but it shows thru. That was my point.
Before You Vote - You Must Read This

Regardless of the person holding the label "candidate", once in office that person will pursue polices driven by his/her party's historical philosophy. So, the trick in deciding on a candidate to vote for is not so much the person as it is the party beliefs.

This article focuses on the hot topic of the day, the economy. Other beliefs of the party's, such as abortion, gun control, etc. are cut and dried. You either agree or not and can vote based solely on one of these topics. However, this is not entirely in your best interest. You may succeed in getting gun control laws you want, but that will not help you in the unemployment line as you are losing your house.

Once you understand the party philosophy differences, then you can make a decision on the proposed plans announced by each candidate. However, you should view everything said by any candidate with suspicion. Candidates will say practically anything to get elected. Everything they say is based solely on what they think the majority of voters want to hear. It has no relation to what they will actually do, once in office.

In simple language, here are the differences in the two major party's philosophy regarding the economy. Bear in mind this is not what you will hear on TV. No party representative will discuss these underlying party goals with a voter.

Democrat:
The Democrats overall goal is to make life better for the working class, the poor, minorities and underprivileged. They believe the way to do this is through government programs. These programs are paid for by requiring large business and wealthy individuals to carry a higher tax burden.

Democrats are friends to unions and the working class. They believe jobs will increase and the economy will prosper by putting more wealth into the hands of the majority, the working class. When the majority has money to spend, the demand for products and services results in business creating more jobs to meet that demand. Thus, everyone...business, wealthy and working class prospers.

Republican:
The Republicans overall goal is to make life better for big business and the wealthy, which they believe will result in also making life better for the working class. They believe this is accomplished by having the biggest tax burden carried by the majority, the working class. With tax breaks to big business and the wealthy, those businesses will reap large profits and hire more employees, creating jobs.

Republicans are friends to big business and believe business success will trickle down to the working class. They believe in reducing or eliminating government assistance programs and creating a favorable environment for business growth.

Analysis:
The Republican philosophy of creating jobs by helping big business does not work for the working class. It's simply a matter of greed. This isn't rocket science. When a business increases profits, they simply put it in their pocket. While increased profits will stimulate some business expansion, more profit does not compel a business to spend those profits on additional employees.

The problem is that the additional business profits came from tax breaks, not from increased sales. The majority, the working class, still has no money. Since they are bearing the tax burden, they have no additional income to spend, creating a demand for additional products and services from businesses.

The Democrat's philosophy of having government assist those that are unemployed, homeless or otherwise without income is resented by many that have to pay taxes to support those programs, be they wealthy or working class. Additionally, big business fears regulation and accountability that is favored by Democrats.

Conclusion:
Considering only economic benefits, if you make over $100,000 a year, it is in your interest to vote Republican. If you make less than $100,000 a year, it is in your interest to vote Democrat.

Article Source
but the mud IS there,it is not going away before Tuesday either,so therefore it has to be measured very carefully in this particular election.
Besides the very fact i honestly think GWB is proof things are not as simple as the article would like for the public to think when voting. The article presented a tool to assist people in understanding the parties,nothing more.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
quote:
What are you talking about. The comment was made that racism could get worse than it has ever been. So because I was not alive in the 20's - 60's, I should not know about such things. Odd statement. I was not alive during the Great Depression but I know it happened and I have heard first hand stories of events during that time.

I stated in one of my other posts here flo,YOU are carrying much hostility yourself to times past,it shows in many of your posts.You attempt to hide it,but it shows thru. That was my point.
Please show examples of "my hostility."
I love the fact that our country has the political foundation it has. No president can "rule" anything, without the foundation and support of their political party, which consists of many members. Any fears or misconceptions spread throughout a campaign about each candidate is meaningless. Propaganda is created to sway votes.

Republicans are portrayed as war hungry rich guys who want to bully the poor, hard working, and sacrificing middle class.

Democrats are portrayed as EVIL, lazy, liberals, without morals, who are only wanting a hand out.

Looks like after all these years, they could come up with different strategies. Frankly, I'm bored with the tactics of both parties and will vote for the party that best suits my needs.
quote:
but the mud IS there,it is not going away before Tuesday either,so therefore it has to be measured very carefully in this particular election.
Besides the very fact i honestly think GWB is proof things are not as simple as the article would like for the public to think when voting. The article presented a tool to assist people in understanding the parties,nothing more.


Understanding the parties IS what your vote should be based on.
The mud is the tool to sway votes and it might be working if you plan to consider which mud puddle is deeper.

People are typically afraid of change and the unfamiliar. It's no wonder that the democrat mud puddle is deeper in this election ... but it is the same game.
From your article:
Democrat is big government, more social programs, and high tax on wealthy.

Republican is tax the middle class, discounts to rich, and cut social programs.

Reality, dems want all money for socialism, taxing any one over $120,000 heavily.
No incentive to work, no goals, no drive.
Taxes on 'rich' is now 36% which thy want to rise to 50%.
They want to penalize 401k accounts and force health care.

Reps want to lower 36% tax to 25% so businesses will keep plants open, not move overseas, and hire more workrs.
The middles class tax rate now is 10-15%. Hardly a 'heavier' burden. Smaller government means less interference in your own life and more control over what you want. Striving is rewarded and accomplishments mean something.
It is simple,

Dem=Big Brother


Rep=Free Will

Guess which one I want!
quote:
Reality, dems want all money for socialism,(false) taxing any one over $120,000 heavily. (FALSE)
No incentive to work, no goals, no drive. (typical Republican hype)
Taxes on 'rich' is now 36% which thy want to rise to 50%.(FALSE)
They want to penalize 401k accounts (false) and force health care. (false...Dems will offer the same health care which elected officials receive, as an option, for those folks who are currently without health care)

Reps want to lower 36% tax to 25% so businesses will keep plants open, not move overseas, and hire more workrs.
The middles class tax rate now is 10-15%. absolutely false statement
Hardly a 'heavier' burden. Smaller government means less interference in your own life and more control over what you want. Striving is rewarded and accomplishments mean something.
It is simple,

Dem=Big Brother


Rep=Free Will


All of those things are constant misconceptions, but a nice fairytale, NOT reality.

Even IF, what you outlined is true, the Republican way (as you have described), has NOT worked well in the past 8 years, for either middle class or the wealthy.

Politically speaking, of "foolish fairytales,
" a fool is someone who continues to do the same thing and then expects a different result.
It's worth a 4 year change anyway.
The best part about our country is that we can change the platform every 4 years.

"Muddy Waters, Mississippi, Old Man River Listen to me...
carry on carry on ... sweet southern comfort, carry on."
Last edited by TheDollyMaMa
Thanks for the link!

The two candidates' plans would have sharply different distributional effects. Senator McCain's tax cuts would primarily benefit those with very high incomes, almost all of whom would receive large tax cuts that would, on average, raise their after-tax incomes by more than twice the average for all households. Many fewer households at the bottom of the income distribution would get tax cuts and those whose taxes fall would, on average, see their after-tax income rise much less. In marked contrast, Senator Obama offers much larger tax breaks to low- and middle-income taxpayers and would increase taxes on high-income taxpayers. The largest tax cuts, as a share of income, would go to those at the bottom of the income distribution, while taxpayers with the highest income would see their taxes rise.

Source Reference
quote:
Originally posted by TheDollyMaMa:
quote:
Reality, dems want all money for socialism,(false) taxing any one over $120,000 heavily. (FALSE)---- [True, look at Bill Richardson's ststement, it will be 90,000 if they raise SS caps.]
No incentive to work, no goals, no drive. (typical Republican hype)-----[True hype]
Taxes on 'rich' is now 36% which thy want to rise to 50%.(FALSE)-----[True, fed plus capital gains + SS + state]
They want to penalize 401k accounts (false)---[True, google 401K] and force health care. (false...Dems will offer the same health care which elected officials receive, as an option, for those folks who are currently without health care)[-----Companies penalized for not providing health care.]

Reps want to lower 36% tax to 25% so businesses will keep plants open, not move overseas, and hire more workrs.
The middles class tax rate now is 10-15%. absolutely false statement[----No, Obama states middle class starts at 20,000 and goes to whatever. May have to throw in 25%.]
Hardly a 'heavier' burden. Smaller government means less interference in your own life and more control over what you want. Striving is rewarded and accomplishments mean something.
It is simple,

Dem=Big Brother


Rep=Free Will


All of those things are constant misconceptions, but a nice fairytale, NOT reality.

Even IF, what you outlined is true, the Republican way (as you have described), has NOT worked well in the past 8 years, for either middle class or the wealthy.[-----Worked great for 6, until the dems got the majority.]

Politically speaking, of "foolish fairytales,
" a fool is someone who continues to do the same thing and then expects a different result.
It's worth a 4 year change anyway.
The best part about our country is that we can change the platform every 4 years. [-----This is the only thing I agree with you on.]

"Muddy Waters, Mississippi, Old Man River Listen to me...
carry on carry on ... sweet southern comfort, carry on."

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