Skip to main content

http://news.yahoo.com/investig...aysia-154612152.html

 

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Investigators are increasingly certain the missing Malaysian Airlines jet turned back across the country after its last radio contact with air traffic controllers, and that someone with aviation skills was responsible for the change in course, a Malaysian government official said Friday.

Related Stories

A U.S. official said in Washington that investigators are examining the possibility of "human intervention" in the plane's disappearance, adding it may have been "an act of piracy." The official, who wasn't authorized to talk to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, said it also was possible the plane may have landed somewhere.

While other theories are still being examined, the official said key evidence for the human intervention is that contact with the Boeing 777's transponder stopped about a dozen minutes before a messaging system on the jet quit.

The Malaysian official, who also declined to be identified because he is not authorized to brief the media, said only a skilled person could navigate the plane the way it was flown after its last confirmed location over the South China Sea.

Earlier Friday, acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said the country had yet to determine what happened to the plane after it dropped off civilian radar and ceased communicating with the ground around 40 minutes into the flight to Beijing on March 8.

He said investigators were still trying to establish with certainty that military radar records of a blip moving west across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca showed Flight MH370.

"I will be the most happiest person if we can actually confirm that it is the MH370, then we can move all (search) assets from the South China Sea to the Strait of Malacca," he told reporters. Until then, he said, the international search effort would continue expanding east and west from the plane's last confirmed location.

The Malaysian official said it had now been established with a "more than 50 percent" degree of certainty that military radar had picked up the missing plane.

On Thursday, a U.S. official said the plane remained airborne after losing contact with air traffic control, sending a signal to establish contact with a satellite. The Malaysian official confirmed this, referring to the process by its technical term of a "handshake."

Boeing offers a satellite service that can receive a stream of data on how an aircraft is functioning in flight and relay the information to the plane's home base. Malaysia Airlines didn't subscribe to that service, but the plane still had the capability to connect with the satellite and was automatically sending signals, or pings, said the U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the situation by name.

Hishammuddin said the government would only release information about the signals when they were verified.

"I hope within a couple of days to have something conclusive," he told a news conference.

Malaysia has faced accusations it isn't sharing all its information or suspicions about the plane's final movements. It insists it is being open, and says it would be irresponsible to narrow the focus of the search until there is undeniable evidence of the plane's flight path.

No theory has been ruled out in one of modern aviation's most puzzling mysteries.

But it now appears increasingly certain the plane didn't experience a catastrophic incident over the South China Sea as was initially seen as the most likely scenario. Some experts believe it is possible that one of the pilots, or someone with flying experience, hijacked the plane for some later purpose or committed suicide by plunging the aircraft into the sea.

Mike Glynn, a committee member of the Australian and International Pilots Association, said he considers pilot suicide to be the most likely explanation for the disappearance, as was suspected in a SilkAir crash during a flight from Singapore to Jakarta in 1997 and an EgyptAir flight in 1999.

"A pilot rather than a hijacker is more likely to be able to switch off the communications equipment," Glynn said. "The last thing that I, as a pilot, want is suspicion to fall on the crew, but it's happened twice before."

Glynn said a pilot may have sought to fly the plane into the Indian Ocean to reduce the chances of recovering data recorders, and to conceal the cause of the disaster.

Scores of aircraft and ships from 12 countries are involved in the search, which reaches into the eastern stretches of the South China Sea and on the western side of the Malay Peninsula, northwest into the Andaman Sea and the India Ocean.

India said it was using heat sensors on flights over hundreds of uninhabited Andaman Sea islands Friday and would expand the search for the missing jet farther west into the Bay of Bengal, more than 1,600 kilometers (100 miles) to the west of the plane's last known position. Spokesman Col. Harmit Singh of India's Tri-Services Command said it began land searches after sweeping seas to the north, east and south of the Andaman and Nicobar islands.

A team of five U.S. officials with air traffic control and radar expertise — three from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and two from the Federal Aviation Administration — has been in Kuala Lumpur since Monday to assist with the investigation.

___

Lowy reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Ashok Sharma in New Delhi, Jim Gomez in Kuala Lumpur, Tran V. Minh in Hanoi, Vietnam, Thanyarat Doksone in Bangkok, and Rod McGuirk in Canberra, Australia, contributed to this report.

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

 

Jank, pure speculation on my part:  How?  turn off the transponder, take evasive action, and fly nape of the earth [below the radar].  Hiflyer could provide qualified information.

 

It's the "why" ... the motive that intrigues me.  I've read/seen nothing that would make me believe otherwise that the disappearance was a result of an intentional act rather than any sort of malfunction or pilot error.

 

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:

 

Jank, pure speculation on my part:  How?  turn off the transponder, take evasive action, and fly nape of the earth [below the radar].  Hiflyer could provide qualified information.

 

It's the "why" ... the motive that intrigues me.  I've read/seen nothing that would make me believe otherwise that the disappearance was a result of an intentional act rather than any sort of malfunction or pilot error.

 

 

_______________

 

You are right. The "why" is way more worrisome. I guess I was naive and completely ignorant in believing that in 2014 we had a pretty reliable system of tracking all major flights. It was shocking to me that there was no way of actually tracking the movements of this plane. Apparently if you have a good understanding of the systems you can make the plane completely invisible. That is scary as poo. 

Originally Posted by earthmomma:

One or our Muslim "friends" has said that the next major terrorist atack will make 9-11 look like a Sunday School picnic.  I llsten to the theories about the missing plane and shudder.

______________

I think that is what most of us are afraid of. Where is this plane and is it going to be used as weapon? Hopefully they will find it....soon!

Last edited by Jankinonya
Originally Posted by Jankinonya:
Originally Posted by earthmomma:

One or our Muslim "friends" has said that the next major terrorist atack will make 9-11 look like a Sunday School picnic.  I llsten to the theories about the missing plane and shudder.

______________

I think that is what most of us are afraid of. Where is this plane and is it going to be used as weapon? Hopefully they will find it....soon!

 

I have friends who keep up so little with the news that I shudder. Now I'm in that category...I had no idea anyone thought the plane was still out there somewhere. Shudder indeed.

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:

 

Jank, pure speculation on my part:  How?  turn off the transponder, take evasive action, and fly nape of the earth [below the radar].  Hiflyer could provide qualified information.

 

It's the "why" ... the motive that intrigues me.  I've read/seen nothing that would make me believe otherwise that the disappearance was a result of an intentional act rather than any sort of malfunction or pilot error.

 

 

_______________

 

You are right. The "why" is way more worrisome. I guess I was naive and completely ignorant in believing that in 2014 we had a pretty reliable system of tracking all major flights. It was shocking to me that there was no way of actually tracking the movements of this plane. Apparently if you have a good understanding of the systems you can make the plane completely invisible. That is scary as poo. 

 

+++

 

You and me both.  I had no idea that this "transponder, black box" or whatever it's called had a manual override as they demonstrated on several news networks.

 

Plus it seems to me that if one was ever deactivated while in flight for whatever reason, it would raise "red flags" everywhere.

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:

 

Jank, pure speculation on my part:  How?  turn off the transponder, take evasive action, and fly nape of the earth [below the radar].  Hiflyer could provide qualified information.

 

It's the "why" ... the motive that intrigues me.  I've read/seen nothing that would make me believe otherwise that the disappearance was a result of an intentional act rather than any sort of malfunction or pilot error.

 

 

Ok guys there are many different things that could have happened.  One has pretty much been disproven if they really have radar sweeps showing that aircraft flying for hours later after contact was lost.  That was the aircraft suffered a almost instant complete explosion or failure that would not allow a mayday call.  On what we know now I believe that the aircraft was hijacked and either forced to land somewhere or crashed on purpose.   That would explain the transponder and ACARS being turned off, radio silence and the aircraft maneuvering off course.  The transponder is not the black box it simply provides a means for ATC to identify specific aircraft by SQUAWKing a unique 4 digit code and it also gives altitude read outs when integrated by ATCs radar.  In most of the US airspace you do not have to have a transponder in a aircraft much less on.

What most people do not know is that on most oceanic flights you are not on radar or talking via VHF.   You are giving position reports over HF or Satcom if equipped.   On my next flight to China this week I will be out of radar and VHF voice range for several hours and giving position reports on HF.

Much is being made of the pilot saying good night which is pretty normal for everyone.   Usually I will say Good Morning Tokyo Fedex 9096 on my first call and on my last Tokyo Fedex 9096 Roger switch to 112.655 Good Night just being nice.  Not saying no one on the crew was involved just the wording was not unusual. 

 

I would not worry about the airplane being used as a bomb it's not like you can just fly a 777 or any other aircraft into the US without a flight plan.  Why steal one when you could buy one without all the risk and getting the US authorities all on high alert.

Originally Posted by direstraits:

More modern upgrades of these aircraft include a GPS station with constant updates.  Malay government officials report the pilot was a devotee of an Islamist iman, recently convicted. 

We have GPS it does not report out position we determine our position from GPS two totally different things.   Trust me or not most oceanic flying is done none radar with position reporting via HF or Satcom.  After you coast out you are talking to a ARINC radio station if HF and they relay position and requests to deviate to oceanic centers and relay that info back to the aircraft.   Sure some satellites look down and can apparently identify aircraft but it is not used for that purpose that is why we have AWACS aircraft in the military.

Hiflyer, you sweet talker, you...could you translate into English? Seriously, that made some sense to the uninitiated.

 

Dire, I've read the pilot was in court that morning when the opposition leader was convicted. Just how would this be a protest if he left no last words...or do you think he's still out there waiting to leave some very potent last "words?"

Ok sorry

GPS is how we determine our position not how we report our position.   Out over the water "ocean"  there is no radar coverage because no land to put them on so we report our position via 3 main ways VHF usually not available for the same reason no where to put a transmitter.  The next way is HF High frequency transmitter basically AM radio like a HAM radio static prone but can transmit and receive over long distances or SATCOM "satellite communication" not everyone has SATCOM.   We call coasting out when you loose radar coverage about 150mn out over the ocean and you coast in at about the same distance during that time you are not in radar coverage and the controlling agencies only know where we are because we tell them via position reports.  Something like this FedEx 55 Reporting REBAS 1345Z FL370 Estimating VEDUS 1600Z KIKAS over.  which means we were over waypoint REBAS at time 1345 ZULU at 37000 Ft estimate next waypoint VEDUS at 1600Z and the next waypoint filed too is KIKAS.

Does that help?

hiFly sez in his post, “to identify specific aircraft by SQUAWKing” referring to a transponder.

I immediately thought of the two bookends bestsquawking and semisquawker. The analogy is perfect.

They constantlysquawk about anything that is said on the forum no matter what the subject.

They must be half transponder and half bulldog.

YOu need a pretty good runway to put a B777 down safely.  I too think it was hijacked, probably turned west with an attempt to make it to Pakistan, and then crashed in the Indian Ocean.  The perps probably turned off the transponders and disabled the wifi. Ran out of fuel over the Indian Ocean and went down more than likely.  I think the fact that the US has resrouces in the Indian Ocean (USS Kidd andothers) that they have a sneaky suspicion of the direction it went.

Originally Posted by teyates:

YOu need a pretty good runway to put a B777 down safely.  I too think it was hijacked, probably turned west with an attempt to make it to Pakistan, and then crashed in the Indian Ocean.  The perps probably turned off the transponders and disabled the wifi. Ran out of fuel over the Indian Ocean and went down more than likely.  I think the fact that the US has resrouces in the Indian Ocean (USS Kidd andothers) that they have a sneaky suspicion of the direction it went.

You can land in as little as 3200 ft at 570000 lbs but will probably melt the fuse plugs in the tires and around 5600 with no issues much shorter than most think.  So 6500 or less X 150 ft or sightly less.    You have to be on your game and land at your aim point no floating etc.  I routinely land a widebody heavy A300 at Santa Anna "John Wayne Airport" in California and the runway is 5701 long X 150ft.   In comparison you could land either at MSL if you had to however MSL's PCN "pavement control number" number which is its strength rating probably would not support the weight of the aircraft

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Latest speculation is that the plane's flight plan was altered via computer (where it APPEARED TO BE...wasn't).

Man these people are so and I rarely say this but STUPID an modern transport category aircraft is controlled by a FMS Flight Management System.  They are saying that someone in the cockpit punched in a waypoint into the FMS and caused the plane to turn.  Well DUH that is the way we control the lateral guidance of the airplane in NAV everyday all day long.  You can fly in heading select but do not normally fly for long like that anymore.  This comes after the shocking story that the person transmitting on the radio said good night to the controller when they signed off the frequency something else we normally do.  Hard to believe we rely on these bozos for news I wish Walter Cronkite was still reporting the news.

Just so I am clear Hiflyer, are you saying there is no way for anyone to "hack" into the system and redirect the flight or turn off the systems? 

 

Also, I know you explained all about flying over the ocean and how at times you send in your coordinates because you are out of radar and satellite range, right? I don't know the correct terminology for a lot of these things so bear with me because I have a question. If the plane was still in an area where radar and satellite could track it, how did they go unnoticed? How did it fly hundreds of miles (allegedly) off course and not be detected by air control. 

 

That is what has bothered me about this incident. I had been living in a fantasy land apparently. I thought that when I was on a flight if it went off course there would be some guys sitting in a room somewhere that would be "Hey, this plane is not headed where its supposed to be. Call the Air Force and send out a jet"  

 

That must just be in the movies....  

Jank,

It would be noticed I do not think anyone would not notice a 90 degree course change.   I know some of the newer FMS systems can have the flight plan loaded by flight ops so i guess it could be remotely possible that it could be hacked.  However the plane still has to turn and the heading and map display would change and no pilot I know of would just set back and let it happen.  If you are under radar coverage you bet someone would be asking where you are going very quickly.  Satellites do not track us for ATC that I know of but anything is possible with the technology the US government has.   Anyone with any FMS or GPS experience from any aircraft could of completed the FMS route change they are saying is so difficult.  It takes one button push it is labeled DIR and then type in the Waypoint name and push the button that is all it takes.   Airbus and Boeing have gone to great lengths to produce common flight decks to reduce training costs and crew errors so all aircraft operate from a certain manufacture operate close to the same way.  So certainly anyone with Boeing experience could have operated the aircraft and probably any Airbus guy also especially after it is flying. 

It's sounding more and more likely that the pilot did this. Now I guess we wait to see if they can figure out why he did it. Also, would it have to be both pilot and co-pilot in on something like this? Could the pilot get away with changing the direction of the plane without the co-pilots knowledge? Could he turn off the tracking systems without the co-pilot knowing?

 

I read a theory this morning saying that if a fire started in the landing gear area and slowly smoldered that the tracking systems could have gone off without the pilot knowing it until it was too late. The person with the theory said that the plane was actually headed to a nearby airport when it was last detected by radar. He said that it would make sense that if the pilot realized there was a problem and couldn't contact anyone for help (because much of his communication was destroyed by fire) that he would just try and make it to the nearest airport. The theory guy went on to say that he thought everyone probably died of smoke inhalation before they ever reached the other airport and the plane probably crashed somewhere in the ocean. 

 

I don't know if any of that is possible because I dont' understand enough about the way pilots react to sudden loss of communication or if any of what that guys says is practical or believable. 

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

It's sounding more and more likely that the pilot did this. Now I guess we wait to see if they can figure out why he did it. Also, would it have to be both pilot and co-pilot in on something like this? Could the pilot get away with changing the direction of the plane without the co-pilots knowledge? Could he turn off the tracking systems without the co-pilot knowing?

 

I read a theory this morning saying that if a fire started in the landing gear area and slowly smoldered that the tracking systems could have gone off without the pilot knowing it until it was too late. The person with the theory said that the plane was actually headed to a nearby airport when it was last detected by radar. He said that it would make sense that if the pilot realized there was a problem and couldn't contact anyone for help (because much of his communication was destroyed by fire) that he would just try and make it to the nearest airport. The theory guy went on to say that he thought everyone probably died of smoke inhalation before they ever reached the other airport and the plane probably crashed somewhere in the ocean. 

 

I don't know if any of that is possible because I dont' understand enough about the way pilots react to sudden loss of communication or if any of what that guys says is practical or believable. 

I would not necessarily say one of the actual pilots of record did it but someone with at least some aviation knowledge did as I said pretty much any pilot with FMS experience could have done the course change.    I guess if someone waited until the other pilot went to the head he could change course and the other not catch it but not likely a 90 degree course change.  Yes someone could turn of the transponder without someone knowing but if you are in radar coverage ATC would instantly know and be calling you to tell you so you can switch to the other one. 

 

If they had know of a fire or problem of that magnitude one of the first things they would have done would have been to send out a mayday call.  They would have called on the primary frequency and if no answer then on 121.5 the emergency frequency every aircraft is required to monitor.   In my opinion it was either instant catastrophic aircraft failure not allowing any calls like a bomb or hijacked either by one of the crew or others unknown.   Even on battery only operation VHF, HF and Satcom one operate so not any failure I can think of would take out all communication.

 

Common among commercial fishermen and some recreational boaters and mountaineers, I don't understand why GPIRBS aren't required on commercial aircraft.  Sounds like a single sailor in a "man overboard" event with a GPRIB attached to his PFD would stand a better chance of being found floating in the middle of the Indian Ocean than a 777 lying in thousands of feet of water with no means of communicating with satellites.

 

FYI:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&q=epirb

 

 

 

There has been a lot of chatter on the news networks comparing this event to Air France 447 but they are ignoring several discrepancies.

 

All commo systems were working on 447.  Not so on 370.

 

And 447 was following a prescribed route.  370 was not.

 

Yet it still took 5 days to recover 447 flotsam.  And obviously due to that flotsam being subjected to oceanic conditions [drift] another 2 years to recover the black box.

 

Not sure if any of that wreckage was designed to float but one piece of communications equipment designed to float was absent simply because it wasn't included.

 

And here we are 5 years later, that low tech equipment is still absent.

 

GPIRB.  Available to recreational boaters and backpackers worldwide.  WORLDWIDE!  Land or sea.

 

Had lessons been learned, we would have known within minutes whether or not 370 hit the water and if so, the black box would have been recovered by now.

 

Now I wonder if there is a reason GPIRB is not required on commercial aircraft but so far I've yet to hear a single news network mention it.

 

Anybody got any clues?

 

HIFLYER?

 

FYI, y'all:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

 

Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:

It is laughable the extreme what ifs the media is exploring.   it is really the lizard people from the inner earth who took the plane.   Beautiful day in Anchorage off to Toyko a beautiful day to chase the sun west.   BTW the lizards know better than to mess with the Masons so i am safe.

Looks like we have something else in common.

 

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×