After looking up some web sites, some say we go to Paradise some say we go to Heaven if your good and believe in the Lord. Is Paradise and Heaven the same or are they different. And who was the man Paul was talking about in 2 Corinthians 12:2 and where is this third Heaven that he mention, is it out of our universe.
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Ah. It's working, then. You are supposed to be confused. And scared. It keeps you obedient and helps keep the collection plate full. 
. Baaa....
Paradise isn't Heaven. It's where we were to live until time to enter Heaven.
We lived an immortal life there. That was just the plan in the beginning.
Adam was created on earth and walked into Paradise, where as Eve was
created in Paradise. Just my opinion but I thought the reason for that was
so mankind was born of dust and dust he shall return.
Ah. It's working, then. You are supposed to be confused. And scared. It keeps you obedient and helps keep the collection plate full. . Baaa....
________
Confused, scared & obedient............sounds right to me. That describes it to a T!
I didn't read this useless waste of space billiee, but I bet you never answer
the question. Heaven and Paradise are different places. the freaking earth
and paradise are different. Alabama and the moon are different.
Just start all over and answer the question in a million words or less for
the shorter version.
I did go back and read some of it. billiee are you saying as soon as Jesus
rose from the grave, he led souls into Heaven..??
Dino, we do not go to Heaven when we leave this world. Paradise is to be the abode of disembodied spirits between death and resurrection. The third Heaven is the final abode of the redeemed in their resurrection bodies: an existence more glorious than Paridise is.
Hi Dinosaur,
First, let me apologize for taking several days to respond to your post on the Religion Forum. However, what I could write in one or two hours using my Windows 7 ministry computer before it crashed -- now takes me several days using my older Windows XP computer. However, I pray that God will continue to give me the patience to use whatever I have to do the writing ministry He has given me.
_______
You apologize as though Dinosaur is sitting on pins & needles waiting just to hear from you! Why don't you show us where his question was directed just to you?
OMG, Billy. How many times do we have to hear that your "ministry computer" crashed?!? Ever thought that God may have blowed it up to stop your "ministry"?
And no, I'm not peeking at your post. If I want to read your silly post, I will. I don't have to peek. If I don't want to read them, I pass them by. That's so simple to understand, I shouldn't have to keep repeating it. But then you're showing your simple mindedness every time you mention that I'm peeking at your post. Do you know how silly that sounds?
quote: Originally Posted by CoolItGirl:Dino, we do not go to Heaven when we leave this world. Paradise is to be the abode of disembodied spirits between death and resurrection. The third Heaven is the final abode of the redeemed in their resurrection bodies: an existence more glorious than Paradise is.
Hi Girl,
Regardless of what we want to believe happens, or does not happen -- the final and sole authority on any issue of our Christian faith -- is the Bible. What does the Bible tell us about the death of a Christian believer?
2 Corinthians 5:6-8, "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."
Philippians 1:21-24, "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake."
These two Scripture passages tell us that when we die, we leave this mortal body (this temporary "tent" - 2 Corinthians 5:1-4) and, while our mortal bodies are in the grave, our soul/spirit is in heaven with the Lord.
When we are in spirit with the Lord in heaven, are we conscious of what is happening? According to Luke 16:19-31 we who are in heaven, and those who are still in Hades/Torment, are very much conscious of feelings, pain, happiness, sorrow, etc. Notice that the rich man in Luke 16 was worried that his brothers who were still alive, would die and go into Hades/Torment and endure the same suffering that he was presently feeling. So, yes, in the spirit life, whether in heaven or in Hades/Torment, folks are very alive and conscious of what is happening to them.
At the Rapture, our mortal bodies will become our immortal bodies and will be reunited with our soul/spirit -- and that will be our eternal being.
Next, to my Friend Vic, you ask: "Bill are you saying as soon as Jesus rose from the grave, he led souls into Heaven..?
Yes, if you recall, Jesus tells us that "NO ONE comes to the Father but through Him, Jesus Christ" (John 14:6). So, until Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected -- NO ONE could enter into the presence of God, heaven. So, all the Old Testament saints, and the thief of the cross, could not enter into heaven until Jesus Christ led them into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). That is when Hades/Paradise was relocated -- from Hades into Heaven. It is now Heaven/Paradise, or Heaven for short.
However, now that Paradise has been relocated into heaven -- all believers, upon death, go directly into the presence of God, into Heaven.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
billiee sayth.......
Next, to my Friend Vic
, you ask: "Bill are you saying as soon as Jesus rose from the grave, he led souls into Heaven..?
Yes, if you recall, Jesus tells us that "NO ONE comes to the Father but through Him, Jesus Christ" (John 14:6). So, until Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected -- NO ONE could enter into the presence of God, heaven. So, all the Old Testament saints, and the thief of the cross, could not enter into heaven until Jesus Christ led them into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). That is when Hades/Paradise was relocated -- from Hades into Heaven. It is now Heaven/Paradise, or Heaven for short.
However, now that Paradise has been relocated into heaven -- all believers, upon death, go directly into the presence of God, into Heaven.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually Jesus didn't say "Heaven," he said Paradise.....Luke 23: 42-43
Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
"
For this reason Jesus didn't rise from the dead and go straight into Heaven.
John 16:
[7] But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the
Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
[8] And when he is come, he will convince the world of sin, and of justice,
and of judgment.
[9] Of sin: because they believed not in me.
[10] And of justice: because I go to the Father; and you shall see me
no longer.
This was the last time Jesus taught the apostles and prepared them.
The good thief, all that were in limbo and Abraham's Bosom were all in
Paradise now. And Paradise still exist today.
Jesus didn't come into his full glory and power until he had gone to the
Father. He said he couldn't send the Holy Spirit until after He entered
Heaven, an indication that Jesus was still not omnipotent. Doesn't
mean he couldn't appear in a room without opening a door. He just
wasn't as he was before going to earth to take human form.
billiee sayth.......
Next, to my Friend Vic
, you ask: "Bill are you saying as soon as Jesus rose from the grave, he led souls into Heaven..?
Yes, if you recall, Jesus tells us that "NO ONE comes to the Father but through Him, Jesus Christ" (John 14:6). So, until Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected -- NO ONE could enter into the presence of God, heaven. So, all the Old Testament saints, and the thief of the cross, could not enter into heaven until Jesus Christ led them into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). That is when Hades/Paradise was relocated -- from Hades into Heaven. It is now Heaven/Paradise, or Heaven for short.
However, now that Paradise has been relocated into heaven -- all believers, upon death, go directly into the presence of God, into Heaven.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually Jesus didn't say "Heaven," he said Paradise.....Luke 23: 42-43
Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
"
For this reason Jesus didn't rise from the dead and go straight into Heaven.
John 16:
[7] But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the
Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
[8] And when he is come, he will convince the world of sin, and of justice,
and of judgment.
[9] Of sin: because they believed not in me.
[10] And of justice: because I go to the Father; and you shall see me
no longer.
This was the last time Jesus taught the apostles and prepared them.
The good thief, all that were in limbo and Abraham's Bosom were all in
Paradise now. And Paradise still exist today.
Jesus didn't come into his full glory and power until he had gone to the
Father. He said he couldn't send the Holy Spirit until after He entered
Heaven, an indication that Jesus was still not omnipotent. Doesn't
mean he couldn't appear in a room without opening a door. He just
wasn't as he was before going to earth to take human form.
Just wanted to add this from billiee when he said this;
In Luke 16:19-31 we read the story of the rich man and Lazarus. When they died, both went into Hades. But, they went into different compartments of Hades. The rich man, who had lived for worldly riches went into Hades/Torment (Luke 16:23). Lazarus went into Hades/Paradise to be with Abraham and all the other Old Testament saints.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's the trouble with "Hades/Torment, Hades/Paradise or Heaven/Paradise.
There aren't any compartments in Hell for a saved soul. Lazarus didn't go
to Hell, he went to paradise and there aren't any dammed people in Paradise.
Why don't you just call it what it is..?
Vic, my Friend,
With all your ranting, raving, and regurgitating -- all you have done is demonstrate your Bible illiteracy. If you have a question, let's talk about it. But, please stop bouncing off the walls and splashing words all over the place -- in your frantic attempt to write a post.
Do you have questions about hades, paradise, heaven, and hell. Fine. You tell me what YOU know about them. And, then I will tell you what the Bible has to say about them.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan to you? I look forward to discussing this issue with you -- but, in a sane, non-ranting dialogue. Can you handle that?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Vic,
With all your ranting, raving, and regurgitating -- all you have done is demonstrate your Bible illiteracy. If you have a question, let's talk about it. But, please stop bouncing off the walls and splashing words all over the place -- in your frantic attempt to write a post.
Do you have questions about hades, paradise, heaven, and hell. Fine. You tell me what YOU know about them. And, then I will tell you what the Bible has to say about them.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan to you? I look forward to discussing this issue with you -- but, in a sane, non-ranting dialogue. Can you handle that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your post is riddled with mistakes, I've pointed some out to you.
You don't know what the Bible has to say about your mistakes,
you make this silliness up as you go because you don't know what
you're saying. If this is a rant, so be it, call it whatever you need to
hide your Bible ignorance.
If you weren't trying to hide, dodge and cover up, you would've already
explained some of your false statements or tell me why they aren't false.
Vic, my Friend,
Are YOU incapable of posting a simple, civil question? If you have a question regarding hades, paradise, heaven, and hell -- ask it. And, I promise that my answer will come straight from the Bible.
I will be happy to dialogue with you on this issue. But, I will not get into your ranting, name calling, and spitting contest.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Vic,
Are YOU incapable of posting a simple, civil question? If you have a question regarding hades, paradise, heaven, and hell -- ask it. And, I promise that my answer will come straight from the Bible.
I don't want an answer from you, who couldn't answer it anyway. You
don't know hades from your ass. I'm not asking a you question, I'm
telling you, you have your comments on this post wrong.
If I wanted an answer straight from the Bible I would ask someone who
knew what they were talking about, that ain't you.
I will be happy to dialogue with you on this issue. But, I will not get into your ranting, name calling, and spitting contest.
I don't want to dialogue with you. You're a liar and Bible ignorant. I just
want you to explain all the erroneous BS you have stacked in this thread.
If you're too stupid to do that just, repeat your standard excuse I know
that's coming.
billiee, when do you think you'll be asking yourself another question..??
Bill,
Will you kindly explain how and why you rely on Ephesians 4:8 to support your concept that Paradise/Hades was discontinued when Jesus died? You cited that verse, but you made no effort to show HOW it supports your End-of-Paradise/Hades: Relocation-of-Paradise-to-Heaven concept.
Bill,
Will you kindly explain how and why
_____
You can forget that! Billy has never "kindly" explained anything. It's called being a bully!!
OMG, Billy. How many times do we have to hear that your "ministry computer" crashed?!? Ever thought that God may have blowed it up to stop your "ministry"?
Good point semi, God has spoken. I wouldn't call that confusion "ministry."
