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I fully agree with it. It is from a source who did not want to be identified on this forum, but it sure is spot on!

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I continue to be not at all surprised at a phenomenon in contemporary America (maybe just since November 2008) in which persons who are most like likely to avow an allegiance to the Constitution, are the persons most likely to advocate a merger of civil and ecclesiastical law. Also, those who would impose religious law upon civil law, are those who distrust government the most vehemently. .

The persons most likely to post Bible verses and quotes from Jesus on facebook seem to be the most likely to have facebook pages for Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, The Second Amendment, and Fox News derogatory images of President Obama.

I truly believe, as did Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin that religion and government function better separately. Members of the Christian faith, who consider themselves to be Liberals, who advocate separation of church and state, who oppose religious interverence with secular government, and who oppose government interference with religious liberty are no less religious and no less Christian.

I do not ask that Conservatives deny or forsake their religion, their politics, or patriotism. I just ask that they not equate political conservatism with Christianity. I just ask that they be willing to share the Bible and the Constitution with Liberals and those who voted for and support President Obama. We are all Americans, patriots, and people of faith.

_______________________________________________________________________________

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
----- [James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785]

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
----- [Ben Franklin]

Where the preamble [of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom] declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting the words "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
----- [Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363]>>>>
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"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams October 11, 1798

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” ---Ben Franklin Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787

“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
---Thomas Jefferson.

See I can do that too...

What proof, other than subjective, does your friend have to claim "...persons who are most like likely to avow an allegiance to the Constitution, are the persons most likely to advocate a merger of civil and ecclesiastical law."?

The myth of "Separation Of Church and State" can not be found in the Constitution...it stems from a letter Jefferson wrote to a church assuring that their would be a wall of separation...meaning the FEDERAL government would not be involved in religious matters.

Yes, if some one is advocating using federal power to increase/advance a religious agenda, it's wrong and unconstitutional. But not because the Constitution or the Founders were anti-religion...but because constitutionally these issues were to be left to LOCAL oversight.

At lot of this bickering about religion comes not from the religious right trying to impose their views...but from the secular left who try to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few.

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a Christian yet religiously tolerant America.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams October 11, 1798

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” ---Ben Franklin Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787

“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
---Thomas Jefferson.

See I can do that too...

What proof, other than subjective, does your friend have to claim "...persons who are most like likely to avow an allegiance to the Constitution, are the persons most likely to advocate a merger of civil and ecclesiastical law."?

The myth of "Separation Of Church and State" can not be found in the Constitution...it stems from a letter Jefferson wrote to a church assuring that their would be a wall of separation...meaning the FEDERAL government would not be involved in religious matters.

Yes, if some one is advocating using federal power to increase/advance a religious agenda, it's wrong and unconstitutional. But not because the Constitution or the Founders were anti-religion...but because constitutionally these issues were to be left to LOCAL oversight.

At lot of this bickering about religion comes not from the religious right trying to impose their views...but from the secular left who try to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few.

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a Christian yet religiously tolerant America.


Bravo or brava, which ever applies. Good job.

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