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4) But Didn’t the “Hockey Stick” Show Recent Warming to be Unprecedented? The “hockey Stick” reconstructions of temperature variations over the last 1 to 2 thousand years have been a huge source of controversy. The hockey stick was previously used by the IPCC as a veritable poster child for anthropogenic warming, since it seemed to indicate there have been no substantial temperature changes over the last 1,000 to 2,000 years until humans got involved in the 20th Century. The various versions of the hockey stick were based upon limited amounts of temperature proxy evidence — primarily tree rings — and involved questionable statistical methods. In contrast, I think the bulk of the proxy evidence supports the view that it was at least as warm during the Medieval Warm Period, around 1000 AD. The very fact that recent tree ring data erroneously suggests cooling in the last 50 years, when in fact there has been warming, should be a warning flag about using tree ring data for figuring out how warm it was 1,000 years ago. But without actual thermometer data, we will never know for sure.

5) Isn’t the Melting of Arctic Sea Ice Evidence of Warming? Warming, yes…manmade warming, no. Arctic sea ice naturally melts back every summer, but that meltback was observed to reach a peak in 2007. But we have relatively accurate, satellite-based measurements of Arctic (and Antarctic) sea ice only since 1979. It is entirely possible that late summer Arctic Sea ice cover was just as low in the 1920s or 1930s, a period when Arctic thermometer data suggests it was just as warm. Unfortunately, there is no way to know, because we did not have satellites back then. Interestingly, Antarctic sea ice has been growing nearly as fast as Arctic ice has been melting over the last 30+ years.

6) What about rising sea levels? I must confess, I don’t pay much attention to the sea level issue. I will say that, to the extent that warming occurs, sea levels can be expected to also rise to some extent. The rise is partly due to thermal expansion of the water, and partly due to melting or shedding of land-locked ice (the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, and glaciers). But this says nothing about whether or not humans are the cause of that warming. Since there is evidence that glacier retreat and sea level rise started well before humans can be blamed, causation is — once again — a major source of uncertainty.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

so, you're using extrapolated data and coming to a 'prediction' that everyone else is coming to a false prediction. alrightythen.... i'll go ahead and say it... i give in.. you win.. global climate is not changing.

 

 

 


 

Are you saying ice core sampling is for naught?  I guess that means your data can be thrown out as well.

Its useless Crash. You can point them in the direction of real science and they will come back with some right wing blog post as evidence against the science. 

 

I say again, if you don't believe that we are experiencing climate change that has been, and is still being, heavily influenced by our pollution of the atmosphere, then you are in great denial. Luckily there are smarter folks that understand and are taking it seriously. 

 

Hoob, I never said riding a bike was progress. You are the one that keeps suggesting that. What I want to see is better automobiles that emit less carbon dioxide or none at all. I want to see industries better regulated so that they are not polluting the air. I want to see better and safer farming techniques that reduce green house effects. I am also willing to support policies in our government that work towards those goals. I am willing (and I do) to support companies that are green. As I said, a handful of people riding bikes are not going to do a **** thing. Trying to reduce it down to that kind of solution is just plain stupid. You embarrass yourself and don't even know it.

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

Its useless Crash. You can point them in the direction of real science and they will come back with some right wing blog post as evidence against the science. 

 

I say again, if you don't believe that we are experiencing climate change that has been, and is still being, heavily influenced by our pollution of the atmosphere, then you are in great denial. Luckily there are smarter folks that understand and are taking it seriously. 

 

Hoob, I never said riding a bike was progress. You are the one that keeps suggesting that. What I want to see is better automobiles that emit less carbon dioxide or none at all. I want to see industries better regulated so that they are not polluting the air. I want to see better and safer farming techniques that reduce green house effects. I am also willing to support policies in our government that work towards those goals. I am willing (and I do) to support companies that are green. As I said, a handful of people riding bikes are not going to do a **** thing. Trying to reduce it down to that kind of solution is just plain stupid. You embarrass yourself and don't even know it.

"right wing blog post"?

 

Read the *******' article...Per references???

Look at the established facts.

Isn't it time for you to put away your "Al Gore For President" button?

Jeez.

 

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

Its useless Crash. You can point them in the direction of real science and they will come back with some right wing blog post as evidence against the science. 

 

I say again, if you don't believe that we are experiencing climate change that has been, and is still being, heavily influenced by our pollution of the atmosphere, then you are in great denial. Luckily there are smarter folks that understand and are taking it seriously. 

 

Hoob, I never said riding a bike was progress. You are the one that keeps suggesting that. What I want to see is better automobiles that emit less carbon dioxide or none at all. I want to see industries better regulated so that they are not polluting the air. I want to see better and safer farming techniques that reduce green house effects. I am also willing to support policies in our government that work towards those goals. I am willing (and I do) to support companies that are green. As I said, a handful of people riding bikes are not going to do a **** thing. Trying to reduce it down to that kind of solution is just plain stupid. You embarrass yourself and don't even know it.


No denial, just reality.  I've shown your hypocrisy and you can't stand it.  I'm embarrassed for you.

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

Its useless Crash. You can point them in the direction of real science and they will come back with some right wing blog post as evidence against the science. 

 

I say again, if you don't believe that we are experiencing climate change that has been, and is still being, heavily influenced by our pollution of the atmosphere, then you are in great denial. Luckily there are smarter folks that understand and are taking it seriously. 

 

Hoob, I never said riding a bike was progress. You are the one that keeps suggesting that. What I want to see is better automobiles that emit less carbon dioxide or none at all. I want to see industries better regulated so that they are not polluting the air. I want to see better and safer farming techniques that reduce green house effects. I am also willing to support policies in our government that work towards those goals. I am willing (and I do) to support companies that are green. As I said, a handful of people riding bikes are not going to do a **** thing. Trying to reduce it down to that kind of solution is just plain stupid. You embarrass yourself and don't even know it.

Jank,

It is no more practical to think that making companies conform to rigid guidelines here in this country will have any effect either.  If the companies here are forced to add expensive carbon scrubbers and etc to their lists of requirements, they will be offset by the multitude of companies in Asia who will not confrom, and continune to do business at a cheaper rate, driving more businesses off our s****s. It is ridiculous to believe that you are going to be able to tell these emerging countries that they cannot produce unless they follow your guidelines.  They will laugh in your face.  Until the whole world decides to address the issue you are just sptiing in the wind.

Last edited by teyates

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