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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion titled "A Forum Friend Accuses Pastor Chuck Smith Of Heresy!" which I began, my Friend, Buffalo, has asked a very pertinent and very important question.

Buffalo asks me, "Bro. Bill. Simple question. Do you believe everyone attached to theses other denominations; adhering to that belief -- will be lost in hell unless they convert to your Church of the middle. No Googling."

Thank you for raising this question. It has long be my experience that if one person asks a question -- many more most likely have the same question, but do not ask. So, I am happy that you have.

To answer your question: ABSOLUTELY NOT! No one is saved by the church they attend or the teachings of that church.

Well, let me clarify that. If a person is attending a church which does not teach the Essential Christian Beliefs -- that person, and all attending that church, could be in real trouble. What are those Essential Christian Beliefs?

1. The Deity of Jesus Christ --- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity --- God eternally existing; manifested in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God
4. Salvation by Grace --- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ --- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.
6. The Gospel --- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7. Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.

A Christian church will teach these beliefs. To the degree that a church's teachings wander from these beliefs -- to that degree, that church is wandering away from the Christian faith. And, people attending such a church are looking for spiritual trouble.

A Christian church is a Christian church -- as long as it teaches the Essential Christian Beliefs. Different churches may have different methods of worship. Some may rely on rituals and prewrtten programs of worship; others may have free style worship based around fellowship, music, and a sermon. Some may not have music; others may sing hymns and praise songs; while others are more lively with singing and dancing. All are great; it all depends upon a person's individual preferences of worship service style. The main point is that all worship services should Jesus Christ centered. If a service is focused on Jesus Christ, the rest is irrelevant.

The danger in some Christian teachings is that a person who is saved may not be at peace with God. The Calvinist teach that, before the Creation, God chose who will be saved (the Elect) and who will be condemned to eternal hell (the Reprobate) -- and nothing we can do, can or will, change that.

So, the obvious question, which I have yet to find a Calvinist who will answer, is: "If God chose only certain people before the Creation to be saved -- how do you know YOU are saved?" and "How do YOU know that you are among the chosen Elect?"

According to them, God made this decision before He created the world or us -- so, how does anyone know that he/she is saved? Those few who will attempt to answer the question will mumble something like -- well, it is because I feel God in my heart, it is because I just know it. No, none of those answers are valid -- for the person is saying that "he knows" or "he did" -- and the Calvinist teaching is that NOTHING he/she can do or feel will earn salvation.

Basically, they cannot answer that question -- for any answer they give will be based around "them" -- and that is against the Calvinist teaching. It is a "No Win" situation. And, as I said, most Calvinist will not even try to answer the question. I have put this question to a number of pastors and to lay people -- dead silence. So, how can ANY Calvinist have "peace with God" (Romans 5:1) if he/she has no assurance that he/she is saved?

And, the Arminianists are in the same boat -- no "peace with God" -- for they believe that they have to be perfect, sinless, to keep their salvation. Arminianists believe they can lose their salvation -- so, they always have to be looking over their shoulder to see if the "salvation thief" is coming behind them. No "peace with God."

I am reminded of that bumper sticker: NO JESUS - NO PEACE! -- KNOW JESUS - KNOW PEACE!

So, Buffalo, although our Christian brothers and sisters in these other churches are saved -- they do not know it, or they are afraid they can lose it. That is no way to live our Christian spiritual life.

And, our Roman Catholic Friends are in the same boat -- for, they believe they have to "work" their way into heaven. Then, the obvious question becomes: "How much work do you have to do to be sure you are going to heaven?" They do not know. Or, if you ask, "When will you know that you have worked enough to earn heaven?" -- again, they will tell you that they do not know.

A few years ago, the Cardinal of New York, in a public address said that even the Pope does not know if he is saved or not. How can a man be the leader of the largest church in the world -- and not even be sure of his own salvation?

Do you see the dilemma? It is not a question of their being saved, having salvation -- it is that they do not believe Jesus Christ when He tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47).

One of my favorite Southern Gospel song is:

It's Not What's Over The Door

Some people think today, If heaven you would see,
You must belong to their church, Or be lost eternally.

But according to God's word, What He's still looking for,
Is what He finds within your heart, And not what's over the door.

It's not what's over the door Of the church that you attend,
That makes you a child of god, And a heavenly citizen.

As the eyes of the Lord look this world o'er,
There's just one thing He's lookin' for
Can't you see that's what's in your heart
And not what's over the door.


So, Buffalo, to conclude, you ask, "Do you believe everyone attached to theses other denominations; adhering to that belief -- will be lost in hell unless they convert to your Church of the middle."

No, regardless of the church one attends -- if a person has Jesus Christ in his/her heart; if that person has, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believed, invited Him to come in and be Lord and Savior, and received His "free gift" of salvation -- that person has been indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit, until and for the day of redemption. That person is saved and WILL spend eternity in the presence of God.

But, wouldn't it really be nice if that person had the "eternal security" of believing, accepting, and knowing -- that he/she truly does have this eternal life in Him -- and cannot lose it?

Buffalo, that is my purpose in life: To tell the unbelievers that they can have salvation -- and to assure the believers that they have His promise of eternal life. Once again, thank you for asking this question. I pray that at least one person who was unsure has read our dialogue today and now truly has "peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
that is my purpose in life: To tell the unbelievers that they can have salvation -- and to assure the believers that they have His promise of eternal life.
Bill


Eternal life as in "Once Saved, Always Saved"?

Your purpose in life is screwed up. Wonder what Jesus will say about your leading people astray when you stand before him?
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by tigrtrek:
Bill
The short answer is no. Jesus Christ can save me. Nothing or no one else can.

Simple, short & to the point that anyone can understand. Me thinks Bill likes to "hear" himself talk.

Hi Chick,

Actually, it more the sound of keys clicking; rather than me talking. But, I will admit that I do love a good Bible study discussion.

Maybe one day soon I can come home -- and then all of us on the Religion Forum can get together for a Bible Study. Wouldn't that be really neat?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
To turn that around; Is a person condemned because of their church? Are only Christians saved? Which flavor?

Hi B,

I am truly sorry you do not know the answer to these questions. But, let me give you some quick answers: NO! and YES!

No, a person is not condemned -- nor saved by his/her church. A person is condemned or saved by what he/she does with Jesus Christ. If you reject Jesus Christ -- you have condemned yourself to eternal hell.

On the other hand, if you, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- turn to follow Him, invite Him to come in and be your personal Lord and Savior, believe and receive His "free gift" of eternal life -- you will spend eternity in the presence of God.

So, do you understand now? It is not the church! It is what is in your heart. If Jesus is in your heart -- eternal salvation. If Jesus is not in your heart -- eternal hell.

You ask, "Are only Christians saved?"

The answer is: YES! ABSOLUTELY YES! For there is only one WAY to eternal life with the Father -- through Jesus Christ (John 14:6). And, ONLY A CHRISTIAN can go through that Door.

Which flavor? All who, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Remember the song?

It's Not What's Over The Door

Some people think today, If heaven you would see,
You must belong to their church, Or be lost eternally.

But according to God's word, What He's still looking for,
Is what He finds within your heart, And not what's over the door.

It's not what's over the door Of the church that you attend,
That makes you a child of god, And a heavenly citizen.

As the eyes of the Lord look this world o'er,
There's just one thing He's lookin' for
Can't you see that's what's in your heart
And not what's over the door.


Maybe you should print that song and keep studying it. It carries a world of truth within those simple words.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
that is my purpose in life: To tell the unbelievers that they can have salvation -- and to assure the believers that they have His promise of eternal life.
Bill

Eternal life as in "Once Saved, Always Saved"?

Your purpose in life is screwed up. Wonder what Jesus will say about your leading people astray when you stand before him?

Hi Chick,

I imagine He will ask, "Bill, why didn't you bring Chick with you?"

And, I will reply, "Lord, I, and many others, tried. But, she just flat refused to believe in You and Your "free gift" of salvation. She preferred the temporal pleasures of the world."

And, then, I can picture Him saying to me and to others who have tried to share with you, "I understand. Well done, my good and faithful friend. You sincerely tried."

And, then we will go happily into the presence of God -- for eternity.

Chick, I sincerely wish you would reconsider and join us.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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semi,
Looked to me like he did answer your question. Maybe it's that you don't like the answer.

Bill,
Are you saying that a Calvinist cannot be saved? Why would you think that a Calvinist could not be at peace with God? Does a Calvinist not believe that salvation comes thru faith by grace? Why would they not KNOW they were saved just like anyone else that is saved? I have not heard this twist on Calvinists and am curious how you came to your conclusions.
quote:
Originally posted by Shoals Resident:
semi,
Looked to me like he did answer your question. Maybe it's that you don't like the answer.


I didn't like the answer because Bill didn't answer my question.

My question was "what will Jesus say about your leading people astray when you stand before him"?

I didn't ask him what Jesus would say for not "bringing me with him". Bill preaches Once Saved, Always Saved.....which is leading people astray.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by tigrtrek:
Bill

The short answer is no. Jesus Christ can save me. Nothing or no one else can.

Have a great night.


tigrtrek

I'm not trying to split hairs here, But the people concerned
have everything to do with it. Freewill plays into it.
What was that parable about the three men that were given
money, and at the end of a certain amount of time what they did
with their alotted amount?
Bro. Bill

Youne have therefore pruvin the point: if your religious doctrine does not allow for all other [Churches] going to hell :

1. You don’t really believe it yourself.

2. You are not sure but continue to advertise

3. It is a source of income and potential sexual gratification.

Not to condemn any of the three because it’s just the way things are done around here.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion titled "A Forum Friend Accuses Pastor Chuck Smith Of Heresy!" which I began, my Friend, Buffalo, has asked a very pertinent and very important question.

Buffalo asks me, "Bro. Bill. Simple question. Do you believe everyone attached to theses other denominations; adhering to that belief -- will be lost in hell unless they convert to your Church of the middle. No Googling."

And, our Roman Catholic Friends are in the same boat -- for, they believe they have to "work" their way into heaven. Then, the obvious question becomes: "How much work do you have to do to be sure you are going to heaven?" They do not know. Or, if you ask, "When will you know that you have worked enough to earn heaven?" -- again, they will tell you that they do not know.

A few years ago, the Cardinal of New York, in a public address said that even the Pope does not know if he is saved or not. How can a man be the leader of the largest church in the world -- and not even be sure of his own salvation?

Do you see the dilemma? It is not a question of their being saved, having salvation -- it is that they do not believe Jesus Christ when He tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47).


BG-

As always, you crawl like a rat in the dark. If you knew anything
about the Catholic church you know thats a twisted statement.
Meant only to misdirect the truth. You are a habitual lie that can't stop.
The dilemma is you at war with everyone that's not agreeing
with you. Good works is only part of it. There is no answer to how many
good works. You just do what you feel is right. I see you do nothing but
talk your posion. Don't attempt to tell the universal church what they
do or do not believe.

"He who believes has eternal life" There is an entire Bible
that goes with this statement. By itself you want people to believe
it's worth a free ticket. Their not dumb, everybody knows thats
wrong. If it were true you could throw the Bible out the door and
wait for the train. Good luck.
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
To turn that around;

Is a person condemned because of their church?

Are only Christians saved?

Which flavor?


b50m,

According TO St. BG, I'm to understand God created billions of
people just to condemn them to hell. Someone could do a short
story on this alone. It's so stupid I wonder why I even replied.


Because it is so stupid. Looking at the population vs world religions, I got about 8 billion people in the world, and about 33% are known Christians. That would mean about 2.5 billion are Christians, broken into approximately 38,000 denominations. If we break that down by main groups we get:
Catholicism - 1.2 billion
Protestantism - 670 million
Eastern Orthodoxy - 210 million
Oriental Orthodoxy - 75 million
Anglicanism - 82 million
Nontrinitarianism - 27 million
Nestorianism - 1 million

Of Protestantism :Baptist churches - 105 million[4] broken into 16 different denominations, the largest being Southern Baptist at 16 million.

So according to Bill, about 5.5 billion people are are already going to hell as they are not Christian. Of those left, 1.2 are going because they are Catholic. That leaves 1.3 billion that may have a chance. If we take that and only count the Baptist, that means another 1.2 billion are gone. So out of the world, 100 million have a chance, or 1.25%

Wow, all that work that God did for 1% of the population. That path to Heaven really is narrow.
Last edited by b50m
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Chick, I sincerely wish you would reconsider and join us.
Bill


According to your "Once Saved, Always Saved", I will.


Intresting dichotomy. Many atheists were once baptized. But then they go on to deny God which, like adultery, is an unforgivable sin. So will these atheists go to heaven anyway?
I’ll say this about this ‘once saved always saved’ doctrine.

If one suddenly awakes and finds one’s self in heaven, that property, would logically be the saved to which once is referring.

In that model yes; once saved always saved unless by some reason one should be cast down due to some error on the part of St. Peter would be true.

On a earthly sense the doctrine would seem to include a broader spectrum of candidates from which would result in more tithes.

The person sitting in the pew with sin in the breast would be less inclined to quit the ‘church’ and give up on the notion of going to heaven.

This once saved always saved position could prove to be advised based on ones intention.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Chick, I sincerely wish you would reconsider and join us.
Bill


According to your "Once Saved, Always Saved", I will.


Intresting dichotomy. Many atheists were once baptized. But then they go on to deny God which, like adultery, is an unforgivable sin. So will these atheists go to heaven anyway?


Sofa---

I'm not trying to start anything, but I didn't know adultery
is an unforgivable sin. Tell me it ain't so. not that
it matters to me, you understand.
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:

Intresting dichotomy. Many atheists were once baptized. But then they go on to deny God which, like adultery, is an unforgivable sin. So will these atheists go to heaven anyway?


Sofa---

I'm not trying to start anything, but I didn't know adultery
is an unforgivable sin. Tell me it ain't so. not that
it matters to me, you understand.



Absolutely, at least according to the bible and those who claim it is inerrant and literal ... which would, of course, include Bill Gray who is obviously desperately trying to save his own hide from certain damm nation.

The most clear statement is the following from I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11: Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


The following serve to back up the previous statement:

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself."

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the *****, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said about adultery:

The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:

Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her."

Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." YOU LISTENING TO THIS, BILL???

Again, my question was, Many atheists were once baptized. But then they go on to deny God which, like adultery, is an unforgivable sin. So will these atheists go to heaven anyway?
You folks are confusing something big time... Ya'll are confusing "Once saved, always saved", with "Once I SAID I'm saved always saved".

Sin and lifestyle are two different things. A true Christian may sin...trip up, make a mistake... but it is immediately realized and corrected. That is human... to sin.
However, LIFESTYLE, is a whole nother issue. Someone who says they have truely been saved by the blood of Christ, yet is an alcholic, repeat fornicator, chronically commits adultery, or is a homosexual, or murderer, or theif...and does all these things without feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit enough to CHANGE THAT LIFESTYLE... well my friend.. what you got there is someone who just SAID THEY WERE SAVED...
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
Again, my question was, Many atheists were once baptized. But then they go on to deny God which, like adultery, is an unforgivable sin. So will these atheists go to heaven anyway?

Hi Sofa,

Simple answer: NO! No atheist will ever see heaven. It has absolutely nothing to do with them committing adultery -- or robbing banks, abusing their spouses, spitting on the sidewalk, etc. They will go to hell for one reason: They died still denying God. This is the ONLY unforgivable sin, dying without Christ.

But, you will respond, they were baptized! So what? Does throwing a dog in the river make it an Olympic Swimming Champion?

NO ONE is saved through or by baptism. Baptism is an ordinance which Christian believers do in remembrance of what Jesus Christ did for us; it is an outward manifestation of an inner change.

If there was no inner change, i.e., no true repentance, no regeneration, no sanctification, no justification -- then the only result of a baptism is to make one a "wet sinner."

With an inner change of true repentance and regeneration -- we become "forgiven sinners? -- and then, when we are baptized we become "wet forgiven sinners" declaring to the world, "I am a Christ Follower!"

But, Sofa, let me state one more time, as clear as I can say it -- No atheist, No non-believer, No one in any of the world religions -- will EVER see heaven UNLESS he/she repents, turns from the world, and turns to follow Jesus Christ.

How about you? Are you ready to make that commitment today? Think about it, for none of us knows when that "last breath" will occur. And, if when it occurs, if you do not have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, if you are still denying Him -- you have sent yourself into eternal hell. Sad, but true!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
You folks are confusing something big time... Ya'll are confusing "Once saved, always saved", with "Once I SAID I'm saved always saved".

Sin and lifestyle are two different things. A true Christian may sin...trip up, make a mistake... but it is immediately realized and corrected. That is human... to sin.

However, LIFESTYLE, is a whole nother issue. Someone who says they have truely been saved by the blood of Christ, yet is an alcholic, repeat fornicator, chronically commits adultery, or is a homosexual, or murderer, or thief...and does all these things without feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit enough to CHANGE THAT LIFESTYLE... well my friend.. what you got there is someone who just SAID THEY WERE SAVED...

AMEN! - AMEN! - AMEN!

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
You folks are confusing something big time... Ya'll are confusing "Once saved, always saved", with "Once I SAID I'm saved always saved".

Sin and lifestyle are two different things. A true Christian may sin...trip up, make a mistake... but it is immediately realized and corrected. That is human... to sin.

However, LIFESTYLE, is a whole nother issue. Someone who says they have truely been saved by the blood of Christ, yet is an alcholic, repeat fornicator, chronically commits adultery, or is a homosexual, or murderer, or thief...and does all these things without feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit enough to CHANGE THAT LIFESTYLE... well my friend.. what you got there is someone who just SAID THEY WERE SAVED...

PR. If the lifestyle is sinning, It's no different.
I don't see the different in your two saves. there both wrong.
A lifestyle of sin, a trip up of sinning.
Once saved, always saved, and once I said I'm saved always saved.
I must be missing something. Maybe it will hit me later.
I guess the way I look at it is that if Jesus saves does he do a halfway job? If God promises eternal life through Christ and then takes it away because I sin does that make him an Indian giver? What sin takes away my salvation? Lust? Envy? Going 66 in a 65 zone?

I know that in me dwells nothing good so I must depend on Jesus. If my efforts keep me saved then I am doomed.
Hi Gifted Child,

Peter Rielly told us, '"You folks are confusing something big time. Y'all are confusing 'Once saved, always saved' with 'Once I SAID I'm saved, always saved.' Sin and lifestyle are two different things. A true Christian may sin -- trip up, make a mistake -- but it is immediately realized and corrected. That is human -- to sin."

However, LIFESTYLE, is a whole other issue. Someone who says they have truly been saved by the blood of Christ; yet is an alcoholic, repeat fornicator, chronically commits adultery -- or is a homosexual, or murderer, or thief. And does all these things without feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit enough to CHANGE THAT LIFESTYLE -- well, my friend -- what you got there is someone who just 'SAID THEY WERE SAVED.' "


And, you, Child, asked Peter, "Peter, If the lifestyle is sinning, it's no different. I don't see the difference in your two 'saves.' They're both wrong. A lifestyle of sin -- a trip up of sinning. 'Once saved, always saved' and 'Once I SAID I'm saved, always saved.' I must be missing something. Maybe it will hit me later."

Child, What Peter is telling us is that there is a great difference between a person who claims to be a Christian -- but, lives a worldly, pagan lifestyle -- and a person who is truly, sincerely a child of God. I did that, I lived that pagan lifestyle, for fifty years; so, I do recognize the animal. Until I was fifty, if anyone asked if I was a Christian, without missing a beat, I replied, "Yes. Absolutely, I am a Christian. I believe in God; I believe in Jesus Christ. Therefore, I am a Christian."

Wrong! That is being an "intellectual Christian" -- but, it is far from being a "saved Christian" -- which should be the goal of everyone; to have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. Although I professed to being a Christian all my life -- I did not become a Christian until I was fifty.

Yes, in those earlier years, I felt the tugging of the Holy Spirit. I knew enough about God and Jesus Christ to realize that I should get right with them. But -- I just could not give up my good-time, party-hardy, worldly lifestyle. I had a real predicament. I felt I should go to church -- but, when I did -- that made me feel guilty. What was I to do?

Solution! Find a church which will tell me that there is no hell. Wow! That would solve all my problems. I could go to church on Sundays -- then spend the rest of the week in wine, women, and song! And, this, my Friend, is one reason why the "Feel Good" churches are so full each Sunday.

So, like a good "Christian wanna-be, maybe" -- I set out to find such a church. And, I did find an Air Force chaplain from a major Christian denomination who told me, with no uncertainty -- "There is no such thing as hell. It is a myth." Wow! Praise the Lord -- and pass the booze; I have found my salvation! Now, I could party all week and be pious on Sundays. Well, actually Sunday mornings -- for by Sunday nights, I was back in the bars and night clubs again.

In other words, my LIFESTYLE was pagan and worldly -- even though I pretended to wear the Christian hat.

We see the same thing in churches which tell us it is Biblically okay to live a homosexual lifestyle. A good example is the Episcopalian bishop who declares to the world that he is a Christian, even a Christian leader -- but, he is living a sinful LIFESTYLE which God declares to be abominable, detestable, degrading, unnatural, immoral, contrary to sound teaching, and against all Biblical teachings. A truly saved Christian could not live such a lifestyle.

As Peter Rielly pointed out, a Christian, all Christians, do sin -- we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). But, we are "forgiven sinners" -- because when we were saved, when we invited Jesus Christ to come into our lives and be our Lord and Savior -- we were indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30) until or for the day of redemption.

We are covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21) -- and He is continually interceding with the Father for all Christian believers (Hebrews 9:24, Romans 8:34). So, when we sin, the Holy Spirit will convict us -- and a truly saved believer will respond to that conviction, repent, and ask forgiveness. This is something which happens many times a day for virtually all Christian believers.

The person who needs to worry is that person who feels no conviction when he/she sins -- for that is a definite sign that the Holy Spirit is NOT resident within that person. And, if the Holy Spirit is not resident -- that person is not saved.

So, when the Episcopalian bishop goes home to his homosexual lover on a daily basis -- feeling no conviction from the Holy Spirit -- what does this tell you about that man? It tells me that he is not a Christian believer -- for there is no Holy Spirit living there.

Child, this, I believe, is what Peter Rielly was telling us.

And, regarding the belief of "once saved, always saved" -- a person who is a true Christian believer has the promise of Jesus Christ, in John 6:47, "He who believes HAS eternal life." Having eternal life means that I will spend eternity in the presence of God. And, having His promise on this gives me "eternal security" in Him.

And, in Hebrews 7:25, we read, "Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." That is another promise from God that those who come to Him through the only Way, Jesus Christ (John 14:6) are saved FOREVER. And, we find another promise from Jesus Christ in John 10:9, "I am the Door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

Child, can you see that, in the Bible, Jesus Christ has given us so many promises that those who are true Christian believers, those who are truly born again -- HAVE eternal life in Him. This is the point I believe Peter Rielly was making in his post.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
I pretended to wear the Christian hat.

We are covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ

Bill


So because you are covered by that "righteousness", it's ok for you to belittle, mock & make fun of anyone that doesn't follow your teachings?
For that reason, I see you as still just "wearing the hat".

You said in another post that the "ONLY unforgivable sin, is dying without Christ".
The Bible says that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I take that to mean anything else is forgivable.

I suppose if we spend our entire life rejecting the Holy Spirit, & we die still rejecting, then I guess it's possible we have committed a form of the unforgivable sin.

I still take blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to be THE unforgivable sin because, if it is to be believed, that's what the Bible says.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
I pretended to wear the Christian hat.

We are covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ

Bill


So because you are covered by that "righteousness", it's ok for you to belittle, mock & make fun of anyone that doesn't follow your teachings?
For that reason, I see you as still just "wearing the hat".

You said in another post that the "ONLY unforgivable sin, is dying without Christ".
The Bible says that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I take that to mean anything else is forgivable.

I suppose if we spend our entire life rejecting the Holy Spirit, & we die still rejecting, then I guess it's possible we have committed a form of the unforgivable sin.

I still take blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to be THE unforgivable sin because, if it is to be believed, that's what the Bible says.


In the words of Samual L. Jackson...... RIGHTAMUNDO
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

How about you? Are you ready to make that commitment today? Think about it, for none of us knows when that "last breath" will occur. And, if when it occurs, if you do not have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, if you are still denying Him -- you have sent yourself into eternal hell. Sad, but true!


Dear despicable moron,

Yes, I was baptized and accepted Jesus as my Saviour long ago. Yes, I am saved but not ALWAYS saved. I sin daily and ask for forgiveness and feel that it is accepted. But I tell you what: I've never committed adultery. You have. In fact, according to the "inerrant, literal bible" you are living in sin as we speak since you married someone else after commiting adultery.

How dare you call my own faith into question you sophomoric, immature old coot. Just who are you to render judgement upon me or anyone else?
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

How about you? Are you ready to make that commitment today? Think about it, for none of us knows when that "last breath" will occur. And, if when it occurs, if you do not have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, if you are still denying Him -- you have sent yourself into eternal hell. Sad, but true!


Dear despicable moron,

Yes, I was baptized and accepted Jesus as my Saviour long ago. Yes, I am saved but not ALWAYS saved. I sin daily and ask for forgiveness and feel that it is accepted. But I tell you what: I've never committed adultery. You have. In fact, according to the "inerrant, literal bible" you are living in sin as we speak since you married someone else after commiting adultery.

How dare you call my own faith into question you sophomoric, immature old coot. Just who are you to render judgement upon me or anyone else?



RIGHTAMUNDO!!

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