Is It Unchristian To Support Strict Immigration Laws?

Hi to my Forum Friends,

Am I being unChristian when I support stricter immigration laws? No. In no way. For all illegal aliens who want to go home and enter America legally; I will welcome them with open arms.

However, I get very bothered by those who break America's laws by sneaking across our border -- and then march through our cities in protest marches, demanding "Their Rights!" What rights? They are criminals; because they are breaking our immigration laws. The only right they have is a ride back to the border -- and let them or their government pay for the bus fare.

Why am I writing this tonight? Because I just watched the news and saw the massive preparations Los Angeles is having to do to prepare for the Immigration Protest March tomorrow in downtown Los Angeles. Supposedly 100,000 will march to City Hall in protest of Arizona's newly passed Immigration Law. And, tomorrow, the Los Angeles Police Department will have to assign 800 additional police officers as crowd control and protections for these protesters.

So, let's examine the facts: (1) 100,000 marchers, many of whom are illegal aliens, will march in Los Angeles tomorrow, (2) Los Angeles has to spend a bundle of money in preparation for this demonstration, (3) and, the LAPD has to spend a bundle of money to put an extra 800 police officers on the streets of Los Angeles, to protect these illegal aliens. Am I the only one to see that something is wrong with this picture?

Wouldn't that money be spent more productively if given to the Education Department, the Fire Department, and the Police Department to make them more effective?

With all the money being spent today in preparation -- and all the funds it will cost to put an additional 800 officers on the street -- at a time when Los Angeles is having to have lay-offs, having to curtail hiring new officers, having cut backs in funds for education, etc. -- we are spending a fortune to protect those who are guilty of crimes, while they march to protest against our laws which they are guilty of breaking. Isn't this picture out of focus?

It would be much cheaper to replace those LAPD officers with ICE officers from the Immigration Department who could check for legal identification -- and, then have buses waiting to take those without legal papers back to the border crossing.

And, then, the U.S. government can send a bill to Mexico City for reimbursement of the cost of transporting their citizens back to the border. Now, that sounds like a plan to me.

Why am I so irked? Is it because these people are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families -- by coming to America? No, that is the history of America. But, if you recall, those early immigrants from Europe, etc., came through Ellis Island -- they did not swim across the border.

What really irks me is that they come into America illegally, making them criminals -- then, they march in protest against the laws they have broken -- demanding "Their Rights!" -- and tomorrow they will be chanting the motto: "First there was Jim Crow! Now there is Juan Crow!" Forgive me, my Friends, but that is crock of baloney! If I were not a Christian; I might say it a wee bit more strongly.

First of all, this shows either their ignorance of Jim Crow -- or that they are downright lying, attempting to piggyback on the plight of the Africans who were kidnapped and brought to this country.

What is Jim Crow?

"Jim Crow was the name of the racial caste system which operated primarily, but not exclusively in southern and border states, between 1877 and the mid-1960s. Jim Crow was more than a series of rigid anti-Black laws. It was a way of life. Under Jim Crow, African Americans were relegated to the status of second class citizens." http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/what.htm

The blacks in America today are descendants of African blacks who were KIDNAPPED in their own countries and brought to America as slaves to be sold. They are descendants of blacks who, even after being freed, were treated very wrong.

Does anyone know of ANY Mexicans or ANY other Hispanics who were KIDNAPPED and brought into America? I do not. To the best of my knowledge; all 12 to 20 million illegal Hispanics in America came of their own accord, illegally, into America. None were kidnapped and forcibly brought to America.

If I were an African-American, I would be very insulted that these people are trying to get a free piggy-back ride on the backs of early African slaves by using their history and their plight -- as leverage to force America to grant amnesty to illegal Hispanics today.

Am I being unChristian in writing this? No.

I have great disdain for the same-sex marriage crowd who wants to use the plight of the African-Americans as their piggy-back ride.

I have great disdain for the abortion supporters who wants to use the plight of the African-Americans as their piggy-back ride.

And, I have great disdain for the illegal aliens who want to get a free piggy-back ride on the backs of African-Americans.

Personally, I give Governor Jan Brewer of Arizona, and all the Arizona legislatures who stood with her, a really big "ATTA GIRL!" and "ATTA BOY!" for having the courage to do what is right and what is best for America. America needs more politicians like these who will take a stand, even if he face of great adversity -- and do what "We The People" voted them into office to do; what their constituents want to see them do to protect us, our families, our communities, and America. Too few politicians can even remember "We The People" -- much less recall what it means.

This November, in the elections -- let's give them a reminder they will not soon forget.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Original Post
No it is not uncristian to support Strict Immigration Laws, Texas now says that they are going to adopt Laws similar to Arizonas, you see the news only puts on the people that has so much to say about how sorry we are for opposing Immigration, and they know that the word most feared by most everyone is being called a "RACIST," when it comes to the Raping of America like is being done now I AM A RACIST, and don't look for my knees to Jerk when you call me one, if you People would only care enough to find out what is happening you would be too. but you live in your own little World and don't want to upset it

what I really wish that Texas and Arizona would do is when they catch them coming in Illegaly they would load them on Busses and take them to Washington D.C. and all the places in the North East and unload them.

I am done now if you want to call me Racist have at it.
quote:
Originally posted by butterfly373:
They should start checking the IDs of those in the parade....Then let's see how many stay in line.

Hi Butterfly,

If the ICE agents were there in force, instead of the Los Angeles Police -- that 100,000 would, at best, be maybe 1000 -- mostly Hollywood Heroes. Not enough; but a great improvement -- for it would save the city and county a lot of money which could be spent for more productive endeavors.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Several sheriffs in Arizona have posed strong objections to the new law. Their view is that existing law gives them all the necessary power to enforce immigration law, without the legal complications of the new law, which in their interpretation, will put them between a rock and a hard place. They say that whether they enforce the new law or not, they will be subject to lawsuits that otherwise they would not have to deal with. Instead of watching Fox News 24/7, some of you could benefit by watching CNN or even MSNBC and listening to what those veteran Arizona law enforcement officials are saying about this new law.

And Bill Gray, that asinine "birther" cartoon does nothing to help your already-compromised credibility on this forum. You and the other diehard "birthers" are showing the world that you love and promote a big fat lie that has been clearly proven to be so.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
WHO GOOFED AND WOKE UP THE LIBERALS? - GO BACK TO SLEEP, BETER!


And WHO (perhaps some bigot like yourself?) decided that only one view is eligible to be propagated on this thread?

Of course, I understand that you are most comfortable when enveloped within a cozy association where your fellows consist of those who "amen" everything you believe. But as long as you have been inhabiting the forum with your presence, Bill, you should have learned by now that a FORUM is a marketplace for IDEAS, and thus will include ideas other than those that a particular constituency is content to accept.

I was not sleeping, Bill. I was remaining vigilant for the kinds of expressions of bigotry and silliness that predictably infest this forum and your reply, above, did not disappoint my expectation that such tripe is still in full flower!

BTW, how are you coming on that answer I have been seeking from you? Have you decided to fess up that you can't defend what you asserted on the purpose of baptism? Honesty and integrity would dictate that you do so, but we still do not see these qualities coming from you in this matter.
This is "slightly" off subject of the original post but brings to mind the night before last while watching O'Reilly on FNC the host said "what would Jesus do about illegal immigration?". As soon as I heard this the thought came to mind that I doubt Mary and Joseph stopped to get a visa when the escaped to Egypt to protect Jesus from Herod.
Additionally I have to wonder if when his disciples traveled to other parts of the world to preach if they went through any legal channels to do so or if the sorta snuck in? I would not drag Jesus into this argument because I think it’s obvious who’s side he would be on.

People that keep saying that the illegals need to go back and go through the correct legal channels to come here are very ignorant of what those legal channels are. Let’s suppose a young couple in Mexico wants to come here for just a visit, when they apply for a visa to come over they have to show that they own property, that they have a permanent job with about two years work history, they must have money in a bank account, a major credit card, etc… anyway so much for your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses. If you want to come here you gotta have money. If you make two bucks an hour it is hopeless to have any of the requirements to come here even to visit much less to live here.
With that said I do agree that our borders need to be protected and secure, mostly because of terrorism and the drug traffic but also to make sure people are not crossing illegally. At the same time we need to “lighten up” on the rules for visiting our country and for working here, of course we want to do all we can to insure the people coming here to visit are morally decent folks but I do not think someone’s wealth is any indicator of their character.
Just in case any of what I said makes me sound like a liberal then think again, on most issues I would be a little to the right of Reagan but I cannot stomach the republican party stance on immigration.
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:


what I really wish that Texas and Arizona would do is when they catch them coming in Illegaly they would load them on Busses and take them to Washington D.C. and all the places in the North East and unload them.


Uh, yo prince....The northeast is already full of Brazilians, Cambodians, and Dominicans.
Once on my way to work(in Huntsville), I spotted a used vehicle on the side of a country road which interested me. There was a home with about 10 mobile homes behind it with people milling around outside each one. I turned and went up the road to ask about the used car, got out(with work badge) around my neck. People there started to scatter like ****roaches when the light turned on!(no disrespect intended) At first I couldn't figure out what happened, then down the road, it hit me that I must've been an INS agent and didn't know it! I laughed hysterically all the way to work-that was classic!
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
NO! We are to obey the law of the land until said law contradicts our duty as Christians to spread the Gospel (Paul and Silas).


Do you know what the living conditions in Mexico are like? If you are unfortunate enough to be born there and a few miles north is a place that is much better with more opportunity what would you do? I think when Jesus said

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

He was talking about this very kind of thing.....so does this law go against the law of God? Which law will you abide by?
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
NO! We are to obey the law of the land until said law contradicts our duty as Christians to spread the Gospel (Paul and Silas).

Do you know what the living conditions in Mexico are like? If you are unfortunate enough to be born there and a few miles north is a place that is much better with more opportunity what would you do? I think when Jesus said

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

He was talking about this very kind of thing.....so does this law go against the law of God? Which law will you abide by?

Hi Jan,

In your post, I presume you are referencing Matthew 25:31-46 -- the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Yes, Jesus tells us to feed the hungry and comfort those in prison. But, nowhere in this passage, or anywhere else in the Bible, does He tell us to free the guilty who are in prison. Comfort them, yes. Free them when they are guilty, no.

However, He does tell us in Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves."

Does this sound like He is telling us to free those who are in prison? No, we comfort them, we feed them, we may even clothe them. Then, we put them on a bus back to the border crossing.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
NO! We are to obey the law of the land until said law contradicts our duty as Christians to spread the Gospel (Paul and Silas).

Do you know what the living conditions in Mexico are like? If you are unfortunate enough to be born there and a few miles north is a place that is much better with more opportunity what would you do? I think when Jesus said

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

He was talking about this very kind of thing.....so does this law go against the law of God? Which law will you abide by?

Hi Jan,

In your post, I presume you are referencing Matthew 25:31-46 -- the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Yes, Jesus tells us to feed the hungry and comfort those in prison. But, nowhere in this passage, or anywhere else in the Bible, does He tell us to free the guilty who are in prison. Comfort them, yes. Free them when they are guilty, no.

However, He does tell us in Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves."

Does this sound like He is telling us to free those who are in prison? No, we comfort them, we feed them, we may even clothe them. Then, we put them on a bus back to the border crossing.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Hilarious!

Where in my post do I say anything about letting people out of prison? You keep on throwing the same book, chapter and verse at me and keep on ignoring all the other ones where Jesus said to help the less fortunate. If Jesus is as you say God and Gods law supersedes mans why are you fighting so hard for the man?

I actually know already...I will tell you incase you don't. The parts of the bible that tell you to shelter, feed, clothe and welcome these people doesn't suit your own personal views on this subject so you pick something else in the bible that seems to fit your argument better. I can't wait to see what you come up with next...Keep it coming Billy keep showing what a great Christian you are.

Oh yeah explain to me again why you are against National healthcare? Would Jesus not want everyone to have care when they are sick? Show me that verse.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jan,

In your post, I presume you are referencing Matthew 25:31-46 -- the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Yes, Jesus tells us to feed the hungry and comfort those in prison. But, nowhere in this passage, or anywhere else in the Bible, does He tell us to free the guilty who are in prison. Comfort them, yes. Free them when they are guilty, no.

However, He does tell us in Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves."

Bill


One more thing..

If you are going to use this verse as your argument then do you condemn those in China who practice Christianity even though they are breaking the law? What about Hitlers laws that imprisoned and exterminated Jews, mentally and physically handicapped people? Do you think those Nazi soliders and German citizens that carried those laws out were doing what Jesus wanted? It was the law of the land so I am assuming from your other post you think they did the right thing.....
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Jan,

In your post, I presume you are referencing Matthew 25:31-46 -- the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Yes, Jesus tells us to feed the hungry and comfort those in prison. But, nowhere in this passage, or anywhere else in the Bible, does He tell us to free the guilty who are in prison. Comfort them, yes. Free them when they are guilty, no.

However, He does tell us in Romans 13:1-2, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves."

Bill

One more thing.. If you are going to use this verse as your argument then do you condemn those in China who practice Christianity even though they are breaking the law? What about Hitlers laws that imprisoned and exterminated Jews, mentally and physically handicapped people? Do you think those Nazi soliders and German citizens that carried those laws out were doing what Jesus wanted? It was the law of the land so I am assuming from your other post you think they did the right thing.....

Hi Jan,

Does God like the workings of men like Hitler? No, but He will use such men and their actions; just at He used Pharaoh in Egypt.

He used the evil of Pharaoh to bring His chosen people, Israel, to their promised land.

And, He used the evil of Hitler to bring His chosen people, Israel, back to their promised land, Israel, in 1948.

God hates evil. But, since man in inherently evil and will do evil to other men -- God will sometimes use that to accomplish His plan for man.

However, keeping illegal immigrants out of America is NOT an evil act, nor an unGodly act. It is an act of protecting our homes, our country, and our families.

If America did as you and the protesters want -- throw open our borders to any and all; America would quickly become worse than a third world country. Is that what you want? Is that your "Social Agenda" for America and Americans?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Jesus also said give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's. Matt 22:21 (full story Matt 22:15-22)

21"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

Matthew 7:6
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
Regarding Immigration reform or laws, as the recent law in Arizona has inflamed many in our Country. I find it typical, of the folks that are so vocal in their opposition, that they have not taken the time to read the law. They make blanket assumptions based upon their own politics or political standing and care not about the legal aspects of the law or Arizona's ability to enact such, which is supported by the Constitution.

If a person is a resident of Arizona then they fully have a right to disagree or complain but here we have people that never have read the bill taking punitive actions against the State of Arizona, and it's citizens, based upon their own biases or political positions. Many of those actions are against people or companies not associated with Arizona, as in Arizona Ice Tea. (typical liberal actions though)

Additionally it was just as tasteless to see and hear our politicians, or one party, applaud and reinforce comments made by the President of Mexico, regarding the Arizona law when, one the President of Mexico most likely also hasn't read the law or understand it, and second has a much more strict immigration law in his country and voices his approval of his own countries actions toward illegal immigrants which come into Mexico.

Can someone here reference the definition of Hypocrisy?

"hypocrisy |hiˈpäkrisē|
noun ( pl. -sies)
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

Last, many equate support of Arizona's law or voiced opposition to illegal immigration as racism. From a Christian context, Racism should not exist although everyone knows it does. The reason true Christians should not be racist is that they, better than anyone, understand that God creates humans, man/woman, as an internal spirit, everyone is the same, the spirit has no sex or physical identity, and therefore regardless of the outward container (body) we are truly all alike therefore there is no reason for racism whether color of skin or nationality it should have no merit yet unfortunately some of the most racist people can be found within churches and segregation also within churches. Even the Ku Klux Klan adopted the cross as their chosen symbol believing that they were doing the Lord's work
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
NO! We are to obey the law of the land until said law contradicts our duty as Christians to spread the Gospel (Paul and Silas).


Do you know what the living conditions in Mexico are like? If you are unfortunate enough to be born there and a few miles north is a place that is much better with more opportunity what would you do? I think when Jesus said

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

He was talking about this very kind of thing.....so does this law go against the law of God? Which law will you abide by?


I DO know what the living conditions in Mexico are like. I've been there 5 times. The people who want to live well in Mexico DO live well in Mexico. Others send their able-bodied family members to the US to work and send the money back home.
You sure are stretching Scripture to fit around your beliefs.
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
He was talking about this very kind of thing.....so does this law go against the law of God? Which law will you abide by?

I DO know what the living conditions in Mexico are like. I've been there 5 times. The people who want to live well in Mexico DO live well in Mexico. Others send their able-bodied family members to the US to work and send the money back home. You sure are stretching Scripture to fit around your beliefs.

Hi Tomme,

Thank you for that clarification. That is one of the main faults with "Progressive" or "Liberal" Theology -- their desire and efforts to make Scripture conform to human desires and societal moralities.

And, that is exactly the reason that, in the early 1900s, a group of Conservative Theology Christians came together and wrote the set of books which are called The Fundamentals. They wanted to put in writing the Conservative teachings of the Bible and offer this to people in refutation of the Progressive/Liberal Theology teachings.

Thank you again.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Stop wasting a so much time, money, and energy worrying about the ones who are already here. Some are decent people who are well trained at their jobs and we're back to a labor shortage again. Secure the border (we don't need a wall for that), put in some decent immigration reform, leave a path to citizenship for the people who are already here. The bad apples will bring plenty of attention to themselves and we can deal with them instead of wasting our resources to hunt down every undocumented immigrant. 

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