Is Same-Sex Marriage A Civil Right?

Hi to all my Forum Friends,

Today, on Facebook, my Christian Friend, Jonathan, asked the question, "Gay marriage, is it a civil right? Or is it impeding upon religious beliefs?"

And, my response to him is:

The whole issue of Gay Rights and Same-Sex Marriage is that homosexuals, lesbians, and transgenders want the same rights as heterosexuals. They already have that. As a heterosexual male, by law I cannot marry another male -- but, I can marry any female I desire. My wife is a heterosexual female; but, by law she could not have married another female.

Why? This is the law of our nation and the law of our God. Male shall marry female; female shall marry male. That is the law for all people regardless of their sexual preferences. So, we all ARE living under the same laws. And, we all have the same rights; no civil rights violation here.

However, what the Gay Rights advocates want is to have "special laws" written just for them. If we as a nation do this -- why should the pedophile, the bestialist, and the bigamists not have their own "special laws" also? After all, they, too, are minorities. So, is telling a pedophile that he/she cannot marry a child -- or telling a bestialist he/she cannot marry his/her pet animal -- or telling a man or woman that they cannot have multiple spouses -- a civil rights violation?

Shouldn't these minorities have the right to follow their sexual preferences? After all, if we write "special laws" to allow two people of the same gender, i.e., same sex to marry -- should we punish the pedophile, the bestialist, the bigamist by not allowing them to marry according to their own personal sexual desires? Isn't that their civil right, also?

This may sound gross to most people; but, in the world of people who practice these aberrations, they feel it is as normal as same-sex marriage or heterosexual marriage. Where do we draw the line?

God already has done this and He gave us a clear definition of marriage when He performed the very first marriage uniting Adam and Eve. "And, the Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, AND brought her to the man. . . For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh" (Genesis 2:22-25). "And God blessed them, and said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. . ." (Genesis 1:28).

What does it mean when the Bible tells us "and they shall become one flesh"? Most people relate this to the union of the man and the woman. Personally, the way I read this is that "they shall produce one flesh -- a child" -- the one flesh which is a product of their sexual union. No same-sex marriage or sexual union can do this.

This was the very first marriage, officiated by God Himself -- and this set the standard for marriage. There is no other standard; regardless of how society may want to set its norms above those of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Original Post
Like it or not, the founders of our nation were, by and large, followers of the Christion faith. The Idea of homosex were so removed from their way of thinking it never even came up as a topic worth responding to.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it was so 'taboo' it was not even a thought to be delt with. It was then, and is now, a perverse way of life. Not worthy to be mentioned in our quest for freedom from the Throne of England.
Perhaps I should just put it this way and be done with it.
Our Lord put, on this earth, man and woman. They were to be multiply this earth.
The way I see it is that anything other than a man and a women being together is an abomination to God.

So just count me in as one who sees man with man, and woman with women as a sin in the eyes of our Lord.

Just bank on it, and my belief on this matter will never change. Homosexuality is wrong in my eyes. And that is one subject that I will not debate on. End of discussion.
themax,

I am not asking you to like homosexuality or to condone same sex marriage. I am just saying that they have the same rights you do.

When someone tells me that they believe something to be a sin I have no problem with that. What they can't do is make it a illegal for everyone else. In other words stay straight and you will be fine. Smiler Surly your god will not judge you by others actions.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
From the title of this topic, & the post of themax & Jankinonya, I can only imagine what kind of worms Bill has released now. Roll Eyes


I was not surprised to see that once again Bill brought up homosexuality. He seems to be obsessed with it.
Max, the Lord has told us that it is a sin not to honor our fathers and mothers too, but we don't make a law about it. You are free to disrespect them all you want, and you won't be arrested. And I for one, will not judge you for it. It is up to God to judge you.

I feel the same way about gays. The Bible says it is wrong, but I also know that people are BORN that way. They have just as much trouble denying their sexuality as teenagers do. When you see a pregnant 15 year old, do you think she should be arrested? Of course not. Both the teenagers and the homosexuals may have sinned, but I will certainly not be the one to cast the first stone.
Many people want it both ways but only when it suites their way and their opinions. What I mean by that is they want to separate anything related to Church from the Government whether it be a plaque, of the 10 Commandments, on a wall of a court house or a Christmas display. Come to Marriage though and they want the government to be able to tell the Church what it must accept and approve of.

Marriage is defined in the Scriptures as between a man and woman and the Bible is also well clear on how it views love and sex between same sex partners. That said I truly believe that the Government should never be in a position to dictate to a pastor or Church who they must marry as that is up to the respective Church. There are some radical, liberal, Churches that have no problem Marrying same sex partners and that's up to the Church.

I have my own opinions but that's me. I do though feel that in a free society, as America is, where the Government is separate from the Church then Civil Unions should be allowed if the majority of the people vote to approve of such. For a judge though to set aside a legitimate election, as was done in California, is wrong. If a government does allow same sex unions then that is what they should be ... NOT Marriages as marriage is a religious institution as well as one recognized by the government. If people want same rights, which should be allowed by law, then it should be done in terms not addressed and reserved to the Bible and religion as marriage is.

I doubt I have worded that right but while I'm against it personally if the majority of people in a free society vote to allow same rights and civil unions then so be it by government. Don't call it marriage though and do not force churches and preachers to perform it unless their Church approves of it or they have no problems with it.

Ours (Christians), according to Scripture, is not to dictate God's laws or Judgment to others and force our way upon others but ours is to watch over our own house and as parishioners of our own Church keep our own Church according to how we view and interpret God's laws to be.

That said as free citizens ours is also the obligation to vote according to our own convictions and the result of a fair and honest, free, election should be honored in a free democratic society. I don't like our current leaders but they were elected and therefore are our legitimate accepted government so I will respect them for that reason. I feel the same applies to same sex unions.
quote:
Ours (Christians), according to Scripture, is not to dictate God's laws or Judgment to others and force our way upon others but ours is to watch over our own house and as parishioners of our own Church keep our own Church according to how we view and interpret God's laws to be.


Can I get a big blue glittery AMEN!
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
I feel the same way about gays. The Bible says it is wrong, but I also know that people are BORN that way.

Hi O,

Do you have ANY proof that people are born gay? Please show us your proof.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Yes, just like its your right to worship a god and go to church. Just like it is your right to marry, it is their right too.

Hi Jan,

Yes, they have the same rights you and I. They have the right to marry and to even have children -- the same as you and I.

Today, we all can marry. But, we cannot marry children, we cannot marry our pet sheep, we cannot marry five spouses -- and we cannot marry a person of the same sex. We all have that same right under the law.

So, what's the problem?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, you are confusing religion with law.

You can have a man and a woman marry as in the Bible, but man's laws can allow for a same sex union.

You don't have to like or accept it, but if it becomes law, it's law.

BUT, IF WE VOTE THE LIBERALS OUT - WE WILL NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM!
DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
I feel the same way about gays. The Bible says it is wrong, but I also know that people are BORN that way.

Hi O,

Do you have ANY proof that people are born gay? Please show us your proof.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Bill, when was it exactly that you CHOSE to be heterosexual? You've said yourself that people are "wired" one way or the other.

Have a blissed day.
I've said time and again, apparently to deaf ears - gays are NOT asking for "special rights". My partner and I, who are been together longer than most straight couples we know, do not have the same legal rights as married couples. This includes insurance benefits, tax considerations, etc. We just want the same legal rights as other married couples.
quote:
Originally posted by David L.:
I've said time and again, apparently to deaf ears - gays are NOT asking for "special rights". My partner and I, who are been together longer than most straight couples we know, do not have the same legal rights as married couples.

Hi David,

YES YOU DO! Just like me, you have the right to marry ANY woman who will have you. But, today, you cannot marry a man, nor can you marry a child, nor can you marry a sheep, nor can you have five spouses.

So, you and I have exactly the same rights. However, what you are asking for is a "special right" to do what our laws say you cannot do.

Hey, the pedophile has the same complaint! The bigamist has the same complaint. Farmer John and his sheep have the same complaint.

What is that complaint? We want to be given a "special law" -- we want to live in our own special set of rules.

So, do it! Just don't call it marriage.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi David,

YES YOU DO! Just like me, you have the right to marry ANY woman who will have you.



no they don't, because they aren't allowed to marry the adult human that they choose to.


personally , as long as no one wants to gay marry me, i don't give a monkey purple bottom what the gay people do.

bill, if you arent' gay, i don't see why you care so much?
will they go to hell? maybe. will them getting married and going to hell send you to hell?
only if you are messing around with one of them on the sly....
... so if you aren't, you don't have anythign vested in this issue.

you aren't gay, so you can't get gay married.

you arn't a woman, so you can't get breast augmentation either, .. so i really dont' care what you think abotu a boobjob anymore than i care about your thoughts on gay marriage.

this is just one mroe chance where you once again brng up another re-hashsed subject so you cna continute to spew bile and call it truth amd the word of the lord.

and you stoop to the silly with trying to equate gay marraige with beastiality ( typical fundy trick, and they can't even see how stupid it makes them look) and pedophilia and other such things already against the law.

two adult humans is the discussion. not sheep, not children. adult humans are bared from being married to the adult human of their choice, and you say they have the same rights we do.

what staggers my mind is that you probably believe that. you probably don't see anythign wrong with the idea. it makes sense to you...

' i picked the woman i wanted to marry, other men can pick the woman they want to marry. that's fair'.

lets change all pronouns to the words 'adult person.'

i picked the adult person i wanted to marry. so that adult person cna pick the adult person they want to marry.

how about that? looks good to me.

what's wrong with those words bill? anything? they seem completly fair to me.. they specify adult, which blocks pedophiles.. it specifies person, which prevents beastiality...

so we good?

ok.. someone call the press, we have the new law hammered out.
unless... unless brother bill can show us how this law isn't .. fair and equal?

can you bill?
show me.

/plays jeopardy music
Thanks thenagel, You saved me from having to explain to him the difference between humans and animals. Seems pretty obvious to most of us, but to Bill he seems to get confused on those points.

When he equates homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia it just highlights his sick and confused mind.

Bill, please try and leave children out of this discussion. It has absolutely nothing to do with same sex marriage. Unless you want to talk about homosexuals rights to adopt children. However what you are suggesting is making me sick.
quote:
Originally posted by gbrk:
Many people want it both ways but only when it suites their way and their opinions. What I mean by that is they want to separate anything related to Church from the Government whether it be a plaque, of the 10 Commandments, on a wall of a court house or a Christmas display. Come to Marriage though and they want the government to be able to tell the Church what it must accept and approve of.



Actually, I think that most people who want religion kept out of our government and also agree with the rights of individuals to engage in same sex marriage are speaking to the same thing. As for wanting the church to approve of it, well that is something totally different. I for one could care less what your church or any other religion believes to be a sin. You don't have to accept it as a personal choice, just don't try and tell others that they can't based on your religious beliefs.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Perhaps I should just put it this way and be done with it.
Our Lord put, on this earth, man and woman. They were to be multiply this earth.
The way I see it is that anything other than a man and a women being together is an abomination to God.
.


then by that logic, it should be legal to marry your sister since the poopulation could not have increased if some mixing didn't go on. by your logic plural marraiges oughta be legal too since the bible is filled with authorizations directly from the lord godamighty Himself that men could kidnap virgins from conquered tribes and take them as their own. so are you in favor of plural marraiges?
quote:
Originally posted by David L.:
I've said time and again, apparently to deaf ears - gays are NOT asking for "special rights". My partner and I, who are been together longer than most straight couples we know, do not have the same legal rights as married couples. This includes insurance benefits, tax considerations, etc. We just want the same legal rights as other married couples.


dave dave dave. sorry but the bible says you must love someone else. sorry that ol yahweh made you who you are but you arejust gonna have to change so that the billy gees of the world will stop poking their noses into your sex lives. after all your sex life and who youcshoose to love are OUR business. WE get to decide that not you.

so for your and my sake, just stop loving the person you are with and start loving someone else. its as simple as that buddy.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
From the title of this topic, & the post of themax & Jankinonya, I can only imagine what kind of worms Bill has released now. Roll Eyes


quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
I was not surprised to see that once again Bill brought up homosexuality. He seems to be obsessed with it.


And anyone that is catholic.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
From the title of this topic, & the post of themax & Jankinonya, I can only imagine what kind of worms Bill has released now. Roll Eyes


quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
I was not surprised to see that once again Bill brought up homosexuality. He seems to be obsessed with it.


And anyone that is catholic.


jankoff,

I'm catholic I and don't support homos. Is that what you meant?
Child,

I don't care if you are catholic or not. I don't care if you support homosexuals.

Just don't stick your nose in the sexual lives of consenting adults and you will be fine. Don't try and stop those individuals that want to be married to the same sex from having the right to do so.

That is what I meant. Are we clear?

Do you agree with Bills view of the catholic church?
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Thanks thenagel, You saved me from having to explain to him the difference between humans and animals. Seems pretty obvious to most of us, but to Bill he seems to get confused on those points.

When he equates homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia it just highlights his sick and confused mind.

Bill, please try and leave children out of this discussion. It has absolutely nothing to do with same sex marriage. Unless you want to talk about homosexuals rights to adopt children. However what you are suggesting is making me sick.


i think it's really a subconcious cry from bill's soul, telling us he really wants to have sex with underage animals.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
you arn't a woman, so you can't get breast augmentation either, ..

Ever saw Marilyn Manson in the past? Eeker Eeker Eeker



Lol.. nah.. there is a rich guy that lost a bet and had the silicone implants put it..

anyone can get implants, but it doesn't mean they have boobsSmiler

if that's all it took, one quick surgury from now, and i'd never get off the sofa again Smiler
I'm gonna play the part of the Atheist here!!! YAY!! Jank, Slim and company should love me after this one!!!

Let's remove God from this equation for a moment shall we?? ONLY SCIENCE!!! Now... remember, I am an atheist right now... I don't believe in god at all... he is a sky fairy who is a creation of man.... all things came from nothingness, and then randomness poked his head in a mixed everything up, and POOF!! it has all turned out perfectly... remember... I AM AN ANTHEIST!!!

Now... Going on pure SCIENTIFIC FACT... The ONLY possible sexual partner for a human male is a human female, and the ONLY sexual partner for a human female is a human male. No way, no how can anyone scientifically condone the union of 2 men or 2 women in a sexual act.... That's pure anatomy... NO GOD!! HE DOESNT EXIST, MORALS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT... just so we are clear once again that I'm am a science lovin atheist.... Only anatomically speaking, man goes with woman, and woman goes with man... same gender relations spits in the face of scientific facts.
Well Peter,

Being a lesbian myself;

I can see where the flicking of the guinea horn could be a source of entertainment for two females but the male on male uhh uh …..hold it a sec; that ain’t normal.

David my advice: try a female. I don’t think you will be disappointed.
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Child,

I don't care if you are catholic or not. I don't care if you support homosexuals.

Just don't stick your nose in the sexual lives of consenting adults and you will be fine. Don't try and stop those individuals that want to be married to the same sex from having the right to do so.

That is what I meant. Are we clear?

Do you agree with Bills view of the catholic church?



jank,

Sorry, simi said that not you.

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