Is The Old Testament Still Valid In The New Testament Churches?

quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
May I suggest your NEXT posting name? How about BULLDOG -- for you love to go back and dig up long dead bones -- and gnaw on them as though there was any nourishment there.

And yet we have Nothing Comes to Forumland for the third time.

Hi Crusty,

But, my Friend, you can see what I am doing. The vast majority of our Forum Friends do understand what is written. However, there are a couple, you included, who seem to have a problem grasping the concept of God, the Bible, Christianity, and salvation.

And, not wanting to exclude dear Friends such as you -- I have repeated the post.

Also, we have new Friends who have joined us more recently who might need to be warned about our Friends Argue and Debate.

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Aude Sapere:
M'word, 'tis clear to see
that witty attmpts at poesy
upon our holy aged foe
(single-handed battling Satan 'neath the veil of woe)
simply does not agree.

Hi Neal,

To be quite truthful, your attempts at poetry make more sense than your usual writings. Do you think that, possibly, you have found your niche in life -- writing nonsensical poetry?

Oh, well, if nothing else -- it will keep you out of mischief. That is how we keep our youngsters happy; give them something to occupy their minds.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I'd rather have them occupied with doggeral than tribulation, rapture, and other odious dogma that has not become accepted by the universal church, feeds no one in spirit or body and is just a blip on the silly screen of recent ludicrous soi disant Christian movements.

I'd rather have the youfs busy other than memorizing Bible verses that are out of context, open to intepretation and have been for 2000 years when all the need is the Gospel of Our Lord.

I sure do not want the yuofs believing in talking snakes, dinosaurs frolicking with Cain and Abel in Eden when they were peaceful overgrown pups and believing that God Almighty is so fickle that He chose not to see things until suddenly becoming alert and then drowning nearly everyone; then taking a remnant of the survivors' great-grandchildren and authorizing them to wrack havoc on their neighbors out of their own "superiority" and "chosen" status. I want the youfs to laugh at the "water of jealousy" and act shocked when told how to interpret prophecy that causes one to insert times, dates, and names at will when the former times, dates and names did not pan out.

I want them to love their neighbors and return kindness for evil, to pity the sick in mind, spirit and body and to provide solace to them, not merely to utter a prayer or two and then shuffle off for the electric guitfiddles, basketball courts and occcasional ritual emotional overwrought sermon.

I want them to be open minded and not treat Christianity or whatever religion they espouse out of choice as an act of volition and not a tribal hereditary superstition. I would like for them to read more than wot they is forced, too.
Aude, "I want them to be open minded and not treat Christianity or whatever religion they espouse out of choice as an act of volition and not a tribal hereditary superstition. I would like for them to read more than wot they is forced, too."

On some level, I agree with you. There is a good argument to be made that individuals have a right to believe in whatever they so choose. The problem arises when others of a different branch decide to deride their beliefs. Of course that is the very nature of religious dialogue. Look at this very forum. Everybody here, including myself, has their own opinion of the Grand Schema, or lack thereof.

Personally, I think we should all be able to decide for ourselves which path to the other side we will take. And not be beaten about the head for doing so.

And Bill, there is no need for you to take this opportunity for a sermon. I already have a feeling of what you would say.
Hi all,

You have to love it -- when an avowed agnostic turn atheist, turn secular humanist, then back to being an agnostic -- joins forces with a Liberal Christian who hates all other Christians, who denies most of God's Bible, and who gets his excitement by defaming anyone who does not attend his church.

Now, that my Friends, is indeed a combination, a team chosen -- but, not by God.

Hang in there fellows. The time is coming when you will have this old earth all to yourself -- along with billions of other non-believers and Christian haters.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
May I suggest your NEXT posting name? How about BULLDOG -- for you love to go back and dig up long dead bones -- and gnaw on them as though there was any nourishment there.

And yet we have Nothing Comes to Forumland for the third time.

Hi Crusty,

But, my Friend, you can see what I am doing. The vast majority of our Forum Friends do understand what is written. However, there are a couple, you included, who seem to have a problem grasping the concept of God, the Bible, Christianity, and salvation.

And, not wanting to exclude dear Friends such as you -- I have repeated the post.

Also, we have new Friends who have joined us more recently who might need to be warned about our Friends Argue and Debate.

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill


No, Bill, unlike yourself, I have a firm grasp of reality.

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Considering who claim to be "saved" and "Rapture
Ready," then all I can say is "Speed the plow, speed the plow."

Can we speed up your Rapture? Can we slow it? Is it real or just a modern interpretation taken out of various books of the Old and New Testament? Is the Kingdom of God not of this world but within? Why would Our Lord wish to return to that dump called Jerusalem, home of hatred and evil posing as religion for over 3000 years now?

I guess that part of "And behold I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the old heaven and the old earth had passed away" means nothing to the Tribulators and Rapturites.

The only sillier thing under the aegis of religion that has ever been devised by mankind is the "water of jealousy," stoning disobedient children, and alleged and actual mass murder for God. Frankly, it is right up there with the Book of Mormen and the Jehoveys and such like.

I et bacon for breakfast, took tea and coffee, then smoked a cig, and am wearing silk and wool blended at the moment and am having shrimp for lunch. I guess I am bound for Hades per Moses and Joey Smith. Have a Happy Yom Kippur, Bill! Oh for an ox and a donkey to yoke together!
At the time of its Founding, the United States seemed to be an infertile ground for religion. Many of the nation's leaders—include George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin—were not Christians, did not accept the authority of the Bible, and were hostile to organized religion. The attitude of the general public was one of apathy: in 1776, only 5 percent of the population were participating members of churches."-- Ian Robertson, Sociology, 3rd edition, New York: Worth Publishing Inc., 1987, p. 410.
http://www.cadillac.net/ca/index_files/Page375.htm
Herr Max,

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your conclusion of "live and let live". The religious will not tolerate it.

Muslims want the flag of the Caliphate to fly over the British Parliament and our own Congress. Evangelicals want to actively corrupt the minds of innocent schoolchildren. Catholic priests remember when they ran countries and still think they deserve to. They all insist we subsidize them with our taxes.

To paraphrase Brother Sam Singleton, the boot of Levantine religion has been up the keester of Western civilization for 1700 gruesome years, and now that a few people are finally complaining, religion cries "Persecution!".

Now we can tell the obvious truth, that religion is about money and power here and now, and has little to nothing to do with an afterlife most of the priest class holds in great skepticism. Do you think for one moment that Pat Robertson and John Cardinal O'Conner do not laugh at their respective sheep who shear themselves for their benefits? How about the pastor at the Florence Blvd. Church of Christ? He'd never throw his weight around when it comes to politics, nooooooo. How about every storefront jaybird preacher who goes to work three times a week thinking "I've fooled them again".

Each go his own way? If you're a Buddhist, I'll let you slide, otherwise it's time to take sides.
quote:
Originally posted by Max Kuster:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray: Hang in there fellows. The time is coming when you will have this old earth all to yourself -- along with billions of other non-believers and Christian haters.
And you will not be here. Right? ... I'm thinking. Yeah, that works.

Hi Max,

That is true; all Christian believers will be Raptured, or snatched away. And, when the Christians are taken away; the Holy Spirit influence of the Christians will be taken away -- leaving only the spirit of your earthly god, Mr. Satan. Then all who have denied God will have the run of earth -- FOR SEVEN YEARS. You might say it will be their training school to prepare them for an eternity with Satan in hell. I am sure happy I will not be a graduate of that school.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Prove that by scripture and do not use prophecy. Use verses that say point blank "True Christians will be raptured away and Satan will reign for 7 years," or anything close to that.

Find it if you can. I should think that Our Lord would have said it if it were so valid, would He not? He mentioned it when? On the Mount of Olives? At His trial? On the Cross? When? I guess that the Apostles at the Day of Pentecost, full of the Holy Spirit must have preached that did they not? How about Paul in Athens?
We still wait, for some odd reason, and there has been ample for someone to change their Depends, adjust their truss and come up with an answer, yet he who claims to know all about the Christian religion and scripture has weaseled out. How absolutely par for our self described arbiter.

Is there a antigay teabagging for Palin tonight in Riverside?
That was just more gibberish, pure and simple, just parroting the party line. Have you given up actually writing for just repeating the same old act, minus the pony and rhesus monkey on its back?

How is Dr. Dino's appeal going? I hope he has made a lot of special friends in the pen. Maybe that there meth head preacher in Colorado can give him some pointers beyond "Close your eyes and think of England."
Kent Hovind (aka "Dr. Dino") is one of my very favorite liars entertainers charlatans speakers.

Among the whoppers he tells gullible believers is that dinosaurs are found in lower geological strata because they were heavier than the animals found above them. See there was this world-wide flood, and all the animals died, and the heavy ones sank lower into the muck that solidified into limestone, gneiss, coal, and schist pretty much immediately.

He conveniently forgets to mention the things even lower than the dinosaurs, like, say, trilobites. They must have been quite heavy indeed. And pre-cellular microfossils! Heavy wee SOBs they must have been.

Dr. Dino has no use nor need for PC notions of density and buoyancy, or science of any sort. He has a bible.

As you watch him speak to rapt audiences...well, when he did before he got a 10-year procto exam sentence for tax evasion... you could see their tiny brains harden in front of your eyes. It was quite amusing.

Only thing is, some of people had once been intelligent, before they bought into Hovind's scam. And it takes hours to straighten out the lies he can tell in only a few minutes. I hope at least some of his YEC robots now realize he was in it for the money and was laughing at them the whole time.
I saw him once upon a time; he was an entertaining speaker. We spoke privately for a few minutes and he seemed like a nice guy. I don't recall what his doctorate was in; it was not hard science, as I recall. Since mine IS, I looked at his presentation as a hypothesis that was presented with somewhat shaky evidence. But it was somewhat biblical and people used it to build their faith as well as, apparently, his bank account.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Neal, Thank you for your patience and your Christian fellowship. You will find my response in the new discussion "Does Scripture Teach End Time Eschatology?" I am sure you will enjoy it.

You were wrong.

Hi Zip,

One can only OFFER the hand of friendship; one cannot force another to accept it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Zip,

Hovind's "PhD" is from a diploma mill in Florida. It's a concrete block shed on a stretch of lifeless sand.

You could look it up.

Like everything else about the man, his diploma is totally fraudulent.

Hovind also claims to have taught high school science for 15 years. If he did so, it was at a christian madrasa, since his knowledge of real science is, to say the least, scandalous.

He's a hoot, look him up.
The vast majority of those "PhDs" that tout snake handling, fasting for fun and profit, magical pancake for Jesus and longevity, etc. are either out of diploma mills or they are "honorary" ones bestowed upon them by the guys they had just made fellow "doctors." Rexella got doctored recently from a distance course run by a dude who keeps on having to change states where it is registered, and has been on the van Impe's show many times. I think Jack's is from Oral Roberts, so that doesn't count for a hill of beans, as it is a D.D. which is worthless and not a PhD at all or an STD, which is the theology equivalent of a PhD issued by a seminary and not a general university.

You do know, for all those who have Drs. in the pulpit and on the TV that "real" doctors, regardless of discipline devote years of study to many subjects and then spend a couple of more researching an original contribution to scholarship and prepare a book called a dissertation before they even have grueling public multi-hour defenses, right? And that is after they have had a multi-day written exam over at least three if not four areas of study? And they have to read at least three modern research languages as a rule, plus any additional ones reuqired by the committee?
It is, indeed, one of if not the most humorous abbreviations in academe, at least to those who are unfamiliar with the term. It is a lot like the person, Dick Scaife, which sound suspiciously like a nether regional localized pus-filled boil eruption of venereal origin, but I am sure he doesn't find it as funny as I do.

I doubt it is highly prized in most fundamentalist sects, as it is only got at Oxbridge, Trinity, St. Andrews, or a seminary. Animal husbandry is more apt a study for many of our Appalachian cousins, we are led to believe, especially that of legless reptiles, those venomous being more highly prized than the run of the mill black snake or garter.
Hi all,

It is truly sad that our Friend, Neal, can only feel important when he is attacking others -- because they do not worship EXACTLY as he does. It is sad that this is the only way he can validate his existence -- is to attempt to destroy others.

I do pray that one day Neal will give up on religion and find a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Possibly then, he will seek fellowship with other Christian believers -- rather than battle. I pray that one day Neal will join the Family of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Woe is me, Wee Billy's widda feelings are hurt for pointing out Kent Hovind's and his fellow travellers' lack of true credentials and making a joke at the enormously evil Dick Scaife's expense. Cry me a river. Cry me a Glenn Beck load of tears.

If those big boys can't take the heat, they ought to get out of the kitchen, don't you think?

Hovind is a swindler, a tax cheat and a liar.
Scaife is a noxious person who led the schism of the Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh and funds the likes of the various warfare-means-peace "institutes" like the Heritage and AEI when it is not busy with divorces and fighting his dead mother and sister and funding rightwing "causes."

You must take tea with him sometimes, Wee Billy. Dr. Dino's schedule shall be free when he is sprung from the federal pen in the year 2020 or so. Maybe Oily Taints, or whatever the Bessarabian Birther queen is named can join you all together! Sean Hannity can pray and Rush lead you in a round of Oxycotin post supper mainlining! Oh what fun! That gay meth head preacher in Colorado can bring the meth and Rush can make speedballs! Rexella can tell you all how hard it was to get her imaginary PhD, if it compared with the rigors of Dr. Dino's or not. Jimmy Swaggert can play the pianny for entertainment! David Vitter can wear his baby costume!
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi all,

It is truly sad that our Friend, Neal, can only feel important when he is attacking others -- because they do not worship EXACTLY as he does. It is sad that this is the only way he can validate his existence -- is to attempt to destroy others.



AAAAAAAAAaaaahahahahahahahahaa, Bill! The irony is just too delicious.

Have another blissed day, friend.
I frankly do not care how the snake handlers, tribulators, rapturites and simony masters worship, so long as they are not presented as represented as somehow "mainstream" and the end all and be all of Christianity. People are welcome to wallow in their talking snakes, arguing over what a week means in prophecy and belief in a 6000 year old earth to their hearts' fullness.

However, I must feel free to ridicule their silliness and often times heresy to my hearts' fullness. Upon that I must insist.

In short, your little cult, Mr. Gray, is nothing special, there having been any large numbers of small people who feel it vastly important to feel "special" and "chosen" as they have throughout the ages.

If I am remembering correctly, the MMPI, which I had to take several times for security clearances, includes, after "Are your stools dark and tarry?," "Are you a personal agent of
God?". Well, mon frere, are your stools dark and tarry? The second question is answered by your crude attempts at prose of a personal and theological nature.

By the by, who is your favorite chosen vessel of God in matters religious, political, and scientific, Rexella and Jack or Hogee and LaHaye? You evidently have no originality to your person, therefore, you must have learnt to parrot the opinions of others. I was just wondering who those others were.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi all,

It is truly sad that our Friend, Neal, can only feel important when he is attacking others -- because they do not worship EXACTLY as he does. It is sad that this is the only way he can validate his existence -- is to attempt to destroy others.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I've said before: Your hypocrisy knows no limits. Go a global search and replace "Bill" for "Neal" in that paragraph and it's still very true.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi all,

It is truly sad that our Friend, Neal, can only feel important when he is attacking others -- because they do not worship EXACTLY as he does. It is sad that this is the only way he can validate his existence -- is to attempt to destroy others.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I've said before: Your hypocrisy knows no limits. Go a global search and replace "Bill" for "Neal" in that paragraph and it's still very true.

Hi Zip,

It is truly inspiring to watch one liberal defend another -- regardless of how wrong he may be. It appears that the only folks who can drink at your bar are liberals, atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, and New Agers.

I can see where conservative Christians could make you uncomfortable. It probably is somewhat frightening when someone holds the Holy Spirit inspired, inerrant, literal Word of God, the Bible, before you -- sort of like a spiritual mirror which reflects the Truth. Yes, that could be scary to a devout liberal who tries to deny the Bible.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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It would appear that the Gray's stools are dark and tarry, as he has not refuted such backed up by verse and personal diatribe against others who lack dark and tarry stools.

I have just received a word of wisdom after planting my seed of faith to the tune of $1000 to get a vial of blessed holy water from the River Jordan and a full hour long CD/DVD on the Rapture and my word of wisdom says "You were a fool to buy that crap -- Pat Robertson gives you pancake miracle mix and Tammy Faye's exhusband survivalist food, and that there Perry Stone some matzoh." Bill Gray ain't got no DVDs or magic food, so I reckon he must have dark and tarry stools.

I've seen the glory of the coming of Perry Stone and the magical matzoh! Woe to you generation of Billvationists! Woe to ye! His stools are light brown and sweet like honey, so he tells us in the special Director's Cut DVD of the latest rehash of his previous DVD.
Actually, Bill, conservative christians don't make me uncomfortable. It's the fanatic version of the christian taliban (in which group I include you) that scares the crap out of me. And not for the reason you propose. You and your ilk are simply a little political power away from mass murder.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah: Actually, Bill, conservative christians don't make me uncomfortable. It's the fanatic version of the christian taliban (in which group I include you) that scares the crap out of me. And not for the reason you propose. You and your ilk are simply a little political power away from mass murder.

Hi Zip,

Although I know you will not believe it; but, my Team has already won the war -- and one day Jesus Christ will establish the perfect theocracy on earth. We call it the Millennial Kingdom and it immediately follows the Rapture and Tribulation. Yes, we will have the one perfect Man, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- ruling earth from the throne of David in Jerusalem for one thousand years.

And, yes, you liberals, if you are true believers, will be included -- even though you have never believed it would happen. But, all your atheist, agnostic, secular humanist, and New Age buddies will be gone. Yes, they chose their eternal destination -- and Jesus honors their choice.

As Ronald Reagan said to the Communists, "Your team loses. Our team wins."

And, even though you are pooh-poohing our Team -- our Team has most certainly won the war. I suppose you can sit in your little corner of the Millennial Kingdom, along with our liberal Friend, Neal, and pout for a thousand years because you were wrong -- if that is still your desire. But, I intend to be really enjoying the fellowship of our King, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. No "pity party" for me. I will celebrate with the King!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I called him a hypocrite and an anus and alleged that his stools were dark and tarry, crazed ranter, and that did not get me banned. Yet, once when I showed the Mormen and Shemorms in their regalia, that there Fosha Ben had the moderator send me a warning. Well, Bill and Fosha Ben, you are both so full of crap that my sewer is backed up all the way from California to Second Creek.

Short answer to the question "is the Old Testament still valid in the New Testament Churches?" No. First, there are no other kinds of churches other than "New Testament churches." There may be cults that advocate a return to Hebrewism, but they are not churches as generally recognized. We live under grace as Christians, and the people of the Old Testament under superstition and oral law, written law, and fiat commandments that were little more, oftentimes, than atrophied tribal taboo.

Yet, anyone may claim the title of Christian and Church, and since there are no copyright police for religion, per se, I reckon they get away with it, just look at the higher numbered cable channels, Mother Angelica excepted. Watch your Hogees and his equally porcine son ranting with charts [the crazed do so seem to love their charts] and the "prophets" selling crap in the name of Jaysus. Heck, even Ernest Angley and Robert Tifton and Tammy Faye's ex are back on the televisors! Perry Stone has "miracle manna" and Rexella a fake PhD from a mail order house of knowledge, give me a break, those guys are to religion what Carrot Top is to comedy.
quote:
Originally posted by MrJones:
quote:
Originally posted by Max Kuster:
Remember what DeepFat called Bill Gray that got him booted?


What did deepFat call him?


MrJones, I have a posit for you...

What do you get when you cross a lady of the evening with a profoundly retarded person?

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