It could be that Jesus will return soon

One day is equal to 1,000 years from the time of Adam until now is 6,000 years, the Sabbath day is the 7th day. In 1948 Israel was establishment of the State of Israel that is 69 years ago almost 70 years and in 2017 Israel New Year begins in Sept. there again is the number seven. Also in 2017 is Israel's Jubilee year. This world has never been in the shape like it is now. And remember what it reads in Matthew chapter 24:6-16. We do not know the day, nor the hour, but it does not say that we might not know about year. So could Jesus be coming soon.

Original Post
uandurine posted:

I hope he comes in legally.

I guess he heard that Trump is talking about a 'uge infrastructure plan, but Trump is thinking about something bigger than "shovel ready" jobs. There might not be as much need for Juan, Pedro, and him to fill in pot holes. 

Your quote from Matthew's 24th chapter is an accurate one in stating that no one will know the "exact" time.  There are two, portions of Scripture in Chapter 24 that relate to that "end times" situation. 

The first is: Matthew 24:32-33 (NIV2011)
32  “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

33  Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

I believe, the reference in the above verse relates to "Day of the Lord", the "Coming of God's Wrath" upon mankind and the Earth and those who, like myself, believe in a "Pre-Wrath" rapture believe that when Christ does return that as Paul taught in 1Thessalonians 4th and 5th Chapters & 2 Thessalonians 2nd Chapter, that Christ will bring, to meet Him in the Sky, the spirits/souls of those who have died first then those spirits/souls of those currently alive at the time of His coming.  AFTER that God's Wrath will be released upon the Earth and mankind as mentioned and recorded in Revelation 8-19 Chapters

The second being: Matthew 24:36-39 (NIV2011)
36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37  As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39  and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

The above section indicating that for those, not looking for Christ return, and looking at the signs of those day that the Day of the Lord (God's Judgment upon mankind and the Earth) will come upon them as a thief in the night and as the flood came upon the people of Noah's day who were just carrying on as if nothing would happen, so it will be in the end days.  People will be ignorant to the signs and to God's Word and warnings up and until they are caught up in it.   

Consider also:  1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 (NIV2011)
1  Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2  for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3  While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4  But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5  You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6  So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7  For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8  But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9  For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ10  He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11  Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

 Above, written by Paul unto the Thessalonian Church, he reminds them, as he addresses them as "brothers and sisters" that they know about the "day of the Lord" (day of God's coming Judgment) coming for they (brothers & sisters) are not in darkness (verse 4).  So it is the unsaved, those who are not looking that will be caught unaware as a thief in the night.

The above doesn't by any means settle debates or the argument but creates many questions in and of itself.  Consider the rapture.  Many do not believe in a rapture at all and many do.  For those that do another question can be ask or considered.

For those that do believe in a Rapture, as I do, and considering Paul's description of the rapture, specifically the following:   1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (NIV2011)
51  Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52  in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53  For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54  When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 

(sleep being death) and  (compare vs 52, above, to Matthew 24:30-31)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV2011)
13  Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14  For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15  According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16  For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17  After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18  Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 In the above verses, which mirror Matthew 24:30-31, indicate that the souls/spirits of the dead will meet Christ first then those who are alive, at that time of his coming, will then "be changed" as in 1 Corinthians 15:51.  The question that can be pondered is will there be a separation of those Christians that are alive, at that time, of their inner spirits/souls from their physical bodies and those spirits/souls rise to meet Christ the same as the souls/spirits of the dead will?  In other words will there be a physical body ascension?  

It could be argued that there will not be but that the Christians remaining, during those times, spirit/souls will be gone from their fleshly bodies leaving spiritless/soulless bodies behind.  IF people suddenly left the earth, Christians were bodily resurrected to meet Christ then those "left behind" would surely know at that moment that something spectacularly and spiritually had happened and the world would be awakened to something happening.  That could be though because in Revelation 6 it mentions people hiding away from God realizing that God's Judgement is upon them.

Lastly, as an interesting read, compare the events, spoken by Christ, in Matthew 24:4-29 to Revelation 6:1-17.   Also compare Revelation 7:9-17 to what one might expect the appearance of the Rapture to be to someone that viewed it from a Spiritual realm (Heaven) and how it might look if described. 

The above scripture references and comparisons  are provided from a rapture timing perspective from the Pre-Wrath Rapture timing position which differs from the more prevalent, contemporary, opinion of Pre-Tribulation Rapture position so if you are a pre-tribulation timing advocate or believer then the above will not make sense nor can you read Revelation or Matthew 24 literally but have to take it figuratively or symbolically as there is no literal pre-tribulation scripture references, which is why many who advocate that position have major problems explaining their position with scripture or from scriptures such as 1 Thessalonians 5:4 and 2 Thessalonians chapter 2:1-12.

  For those familiar with a previous member, Bill Gray, know he is a pre-Tribulationist advocate and I'm sure he wishes he could argue against what I have typed so if you wish to view what Pre-Tribulationist teach then either google "pre-tribulation" or see out Bill Gray's Facebook page where I'm sure he would gladly argue his position.  AS it is there are FIVE views or the Rapture

  1. It doesn't exist, there is no rapture in scripture
  2. Pre-Tribulation - Rapture occurs before the tribulation period (that described in Matthew 24:4-29 and Revelation 6)  The church will not enter into any of the Tribulation years
  3. Mid-Tribulation - Rapture occurs midway (3 1/2 years into the 7 year Tribulation period.)
  4. Post-Tribulation - Rapture happens at the end of the 7 year Tribulation period
  5. Pre-Wrath - Rapture happens somewhere into the 7 year Tribulation period BEFORE God's wrath (day of the Lord) happens, but after the beginning of the 7  year period that may say is signified with the Israeli 7 year peace agreement.  The Church and Christians, alive at that time, will suffer through the first part of the Tribulation  & Great Tribulation years a period of suffering under Antichrist.

 Each Christian should read their scriptures and determine what they believe Scriptures teach and be confident and comfortable in what they believe.

I would like to add one other thought to this discussion.  For centuries, in fact ever since Christ was resurrected, people, in the Church, though Christ return was imminent and "at hand" or during their lives based on various events in the world.   Just look how quick people are about assigning the term Antichrist to various politicians such as Hitler, Stalin, and others of which I'm sure Trump will be one as well. 

What I think should be important to everyone is that once death calls us from this physical world and our fleshly body dies then our decision making ability ceases at that moment and indeed Christ return, for the dead, is immediate in that (I believe) it will be the next awareness that they have.  I have varied back and forth about what, exactly, I believe regarding death and the inner spirit/soul of the human that has accepted Christ or that is not religious at all.  In many ways I believe there is indications that there is awareness after death, that the dead can know, sense, and have awareness about them but then I also believe there is objections that indicate that upon physical death there is a period of sleep, rest, unawareness of the spirit/soul up to and until Christ comes again and the spirits/souls are awaken to face Christ welcome or Judgement.  I'll openly admit that I'm still struggling with this question and am not comfortable with what I believe regarding death.  I am content with that however for I believe my, personal, fate rest in Christ/God's hands and power and therefore I am not concerned about it for whatever is there ahead I am not the least bit concerned with my state/future. 

My point in this post, though, is that (my belief) mankind's time for decision making is while we are alive in the flesh/earthly life so while people argue and ponder whether or not Christ may come during their life they can be certain (again my personal belief) that after death that day/time will come upon them quickly if not instantly, or it will seem that way, even if that time is separated by thousands, hundreds, or millions of years.  

Daffy posted:

GBRK, reading what you posted are you saying that when a person dies that his/her soul or spirit  does not go to heaven.  Also  the planet X/Nibiru is to approach the earth soon.

What I'm saying is the destination or "immediate state/position" of the created human soul/spirit is something that I am not comfortable making dogmatic statements about.  If Heaven is the destination of the saved and hell the destination of the condemned or non-saved, then does one's soul/spirit immediately go to where they will eventually reside?  I don't' believe so, myself, for that's what the ultimate judgment is for determining. 

As for the saved, the saints, those who put their faith in Christ or for those who have not I am only saying that I have wondered if their souls/spirits are in a state of sleep until the coming of Christ and the rapture then the later judgement.  I have vacillated at times whether or not, those who die, are alert, aware, their spirits/souls aware and just how much they are aware of. 

There are those who believe in ghost, or spirits/souls fo the dead that have no home and others believe that the soul/sprit of the saved go immediately to Heaven.  There are many and varied beliefs regarding the afterlife and all I am saying is I am not, as of today, comfortable being dogmatic about my personal belief or if there is a set answer that applies to all.  I know what most people want to believe I am just not ready, by scripture, to formulate my firm convictions on it at this point.

I do believe that after death, though, the spirit/soul is of and within the Spiritual realm apart and no longer tied to or constricted by the physical realm around us.

One thing I'm sure of, the moment you die you will know
immediately if you're saved or lost. God doesn't play with
your emotions, so you know one way or the other and then
your life is shown to you to reconcile the verdict. 
You spirit is awake and aware forever.

Jack Flash posted:

Is your soul your spirit, or do you have a spirit, soul and body.?

I've thought [based on many cussin' outs] that a spirit exists only in the afterlife while a soul can exist both in the afterlife and in the here and now within a container called the body.

budsfarm posted:

Jack Flash posted:

Is your soul your spirit, or do you have a spirit, soul and body.?

I've thought [based on many cussin' outs] that a spirit exists only in the afterlife while a soul can exist both in the afterlife and in the here and now within a container called the body.

 12  For the word of God is living and effectual, and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature invisible in his sight: but all things are naked and open to his eyes, to whom our speech is.
 
Because of the verses of Hebrews 4: 12-13, the brain controls the
body is clear enough, but then the spirit must control the soul.

 

I think there are many unknowns that, maybe, mankind shouldn't need to know.  Some believe that those who die are aware of their kin and relatives around their dead body or somehow can see down from heaven or from the grave sense and know who is there to visit.  There are many different scenarios one can envision but then the thought that there is no more crying or hurt after death would preclude that because I can only imagine the anguish to know what lies ahead and not being able to warn those you see or are aware of and not being able to do anything about it or them. 

Then there are those who cite the section of scripture of one of Jesus parables:

Luke 16:19-31 (NIV2011)
19  “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
20  At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
21  and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22  “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23  In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24  So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25  “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26  And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27  “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,
28  for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29  “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30  “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31  “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

 There will be those that take these words literally and say that's it is proof that there is instant awareness after death while others contend that Christ was teaching a story with His parables to teach several things with the example and was not being literal and teaching what the afterlife contained.  Other's cite what Christ spoke while on the cross to one of the thieves about being with Him in paradise.  

As I said before, there is much that I don't know about and would be hesitant about making dogmatic statements about.  What I am pretty certain about though is that, as specified by another user, after our physical death our decision making ability ends and we must then accept the decisions we made while conscience and able to make decisions.

 

This isn't a parable but continues the lesson Jesus is teaching.
Luke 4: 20-21

And raising his eyes toward his disciples he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours.

Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh.

Parables are meant to be gentle but accurate accounts that weren't
meant to be true but based on human nature which probably does
happen on a large scale world wide.

Well, as I said above, in one of my replies, my current belief is that at death the soul/spirit sleeps or rest or doesn't know anything once the body shuts down and rest until Christ calls and awakens it upon His eventual return to Earth.  I then believe that each Saint/believer/saved person will receive a new "glorified" body which will be a genderless, ageless, body that will contain our spirits/souls and be our permanent body from that point forward.  I believe that our next body will not be like our fleshly body in that it will decay or become diseased, sick, and ill.  I also don't know if we will have the constraints that our physical bodies have in that we walk and move about as we do but it could be that we will dwell in a Spiritual realm whereby our thoughts will transport us from place to place.  

Going with that I believe that we will be able to know who our parents are or whom our family members are as well as our spouses and friends but our relationships with them will be totally different than they are here.  I think that there is many unanswered questions in the Bible and that we will find out in time to come but I also believe, for those who trust, adhere to, and accept Christ and God's offer of Salvation that whatever awaits will be glorious and much better than anything we can imagine, at this time.  As I said that is what I believe at this point in time and I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on it but I also admit that my opinion/belief could be changed based upon future revelations or study of additional scriptures.

Another point of contention is regarding what happens to those who reject God's offer of Salvation, while alive and dwelling in the fleshly body.  Some believe that it all depends upon their works and just how good/bad they were in their lives just as many believe that those who are saved will have various blessings and different afterlives based upon their good works performed during their lives.  For those unsaved who have not accepted God's gift, and are not one of His Chosen/elect, then some people believe that hell or some degree of eternal punishment awaits.  Others believe there are various degrees of punishment depending on the persons acts while alive.  Some believe that the person's soul/spirit will be killed off or cease to exist and suffer spirit/soul death and thus fail to achieve an eternal afterlife/reward for their faith.  Some don't want to believe that being a good person, having good deeds toward others yet not accepting Christ will be punished the same as say someone who has a horrendous life of murder and destruction toward other people.  I've heard arguments for both views and I think that the thing that would concern me most is that the future is eternal, for what we know, and thus it is of great importance what decisions we make during our time we are aware and can make decisions. 

I, personally, look at death as a reverse birth process in that each person moves from one realm to another that is completely foreign to us.  With birth, however, I believe a fleshly body is created from the union of two fleshly parents but that the soul/spirit is a created entity, created by God and placed into the body/container at that point and from birth it is a process of maturity and growth and learning.  At death the soul/spirit leaves the fleshy body or is free from it to begin a life in a new reality/realm, the Spirit realm.  That's just some of my personal beliefs while I base them on Scriptures and what they teach I also believe there is much left to learn and not specifically revealed unto us and left to faith. 

It's interesting to discuss and ponder these things such as this but I hope we can be respectful of each other's beliefs and areas where we differ and disagree for we all have our opinions and beliefs based upon various things and criteria.  I do believe God is real and does and will reveal Himself unto those who seek to find Him and are seeking.  I believe this is done through God's Holy Spirit form.  As for God and just who or what God is I believe that is something that is beyond Human conception or understanding and is such that we, being human and limited in our minds, have the inability to actually understand or conceive of and thus often we make mistakes of trying to humanize God by either constricting God to human traits and abilities or confine God with constraints based upon our human understanding making judgements, about God, based in and from our own limited human understanding and minds.   I believe God has to be approached and considered with faith and not confining Him to human forms or confines.  I also think/believe that Christ was God coming unto mankind in human form and presenting the only possible perfect blood sacrifice, in Christ human body upon the cross at that one time. 

Mankind/people from the past, before Christ came, looked forward through prophecy and promises, toward Christ coming and mankind/people after, as ourselves, look back in faith considering that Christ met each promise and prophecy of being that promised messiah or way toward pleasing God and finding Justification.   For those things where there are impossible questions to answer we have to proceed in faith and just accept that there are human limitations and there are things that we just aren't meant to know now or cannot know now but unfortunately many of those things lead us to bicker and argue among each other rather than debate and present our opinions and beliefs and accept that many of us believe differently than others and thus, with respect and mutual love, toward one another be respectful and ever hungry for learning following the instructions of the Apostle Paul in Romans Chapter 14 regarding when we disagree above various doctrines/teachings.

A Happy New Year to all and with the realization that we are yet closer to when Christ will return to this Earthly realm/place and to the time we shall greet/see Him.  For we shall all see Him, in the future, and as Judge over us, for the things we have done in our human lives.  This same person/judge though provided us the way of escape, the way of pardon for our deeds done in the flesh and for our sinful, inherited, nature also of the flesh provided we have accepted that pardon offered for those sins. 

John 3:16-21

John 3:16-21 (NIV2011)
16  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

17  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19  This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20  Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21  But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

A couple of points here. I believe that God is a triune (if that is a word) being , One Godhead made up of three parts , the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost . 
If he made man in his own image, then we are triune beings as well. A body , a soul (intelligencve) and a spirit with which God communicates with . 
After Christ returns and our bodies are resurrected, we will again have our body , but until then , we will still have our spirit and soul. 

Paul tells us "to be absent the body is to be present with the Lord" , so wherever Jesus is, that is where we will go . 
We are also told there will be a new Heaven and a new Earth, and the picture it paints is a world not unlike our current understand , but maybe without the influence of Satan and sin.

 

 

Daffy posted:

One day is equal to 1,000 years from the time of Adam until now is 6,000 years, the Sabbath day is the 7th day. In 1948 Israel was establishment of the State of Israel that is 69 years ago almost 70 years and in 2017 Israel New Year begins in Sept. there again is the number seven. Also in 2017 is Israel's Jubilee year. This world has never been in the shape like it is now. And remember what it reads in Matthew chapter 24:6-16. We do not know the day, nor the hour, but it does not say that we might not know about year. So could Jesus be coming soon.

Do you happen to believe that this country has elected the Anti Christ , along with the support of some preachers who call themselves "Christians" (I ain't calling no names), and a blond, half Italian "w**** of babylon" ?
Just a theoretical question .  I ask this because I saw this meme floating around.

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