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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion recently begun by our devoutly atheist Friend, Uno, titled "What If?" -- Uno is presenting a video "After The Rapture" -- created by an atheist group which is mocking Christians and the Rapture.   Not a problem.  It is sort of like the children's  game "Last Man Standing" -- and, in the case of the real Rapture (which no man can predict, which no man can tell us when it will  happen) -- the last people standing on earth will be the non-believers.  Wow!  Are they going to have a real shock?

And, to Uno I say -- your atheist video is an interesting concept.  However, it overlooked one VERY important point.  What kind of world will exist with only atheists and other non-believers on earth and at each other's throats?  What kind of world will exist when all  Christian influence is taken out at the Rapture, when the Christian church has been removed to heaven?

We are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-7,  "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and  the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of  worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.  Do you not remember that while I was still  with you, I was telling you these things?   And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealedFor the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains (the Holy Spirit)will do so until he is taken out of the way."



Frequently Asked Questions - Answered by Don Stewart, Calvary Chapel College, Murrietta, California:    http://www.blueletterbible.org...t/stewart.cfm?id=827

Restrainer:   The Holy Spirit also has a ministry to the world as a restrainer.  As bad as things are in the world, they would be much  worse without the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is presently acting as a restraining force to hold back sin.  He does this through the influence of the believer.  As long as the Holy Spirit is working in the world through the presence of the  believer, sin will not run utterly rampant.

In this way, the Holy Spirit ministers to the world. He also does this, as we have seen, by convicting the world of its sin, by revealing  its need for Christ's salvation, and by restraining evil.



After the real Rapture, there will be two very surprised groups of people.  First, there will be the people who only wore the Christian hat but never really had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  They will be standing here asking, "What happened?  I went to  church -- not every week, but, on important days like Christmas and Easter.  I am a good person.  Why was I left behind?"

And, then there will be those atheists, secularist, and worldly pleasure loving non-believers who have been demanding "separation of  church and state" -- demanding, "Keep all Christians and Christian influence out of all public life -- keep those kooky Christians  away from me."

Suddenly, all those kooky Christians WILL be gone.  And, all that will be left will be those who will say, "Sure, I will do good deeds for you, I will help you.  Oh, you are wondering what you are feeling -- that is my hand stealing your wallet to cover my cost of helping you!"

Yes, my Friends, the world will truly be a miserable place when only the non-believers have it all to themselves.  They are going to be the most shocked people you can imagine.  For, without the restraining power of the Holy Spirit, without the influence of the  Christian communities -- sin and evil will run rampant; for there will be nothing to restrain it.

But, all will not be lost.  Although all the people who have the Holy Spirit within them, i.e., Christians, will be gone -- the Holy Spirit will still be around.  And, among the many still here on earth, those standing around wondering what went wrong, many still wearing  their Christian hats -- some will realize what has happened.  They will realize that they have been left behind because they were only  playing church, only playing Christian.  And, many of those will call upon God, will call upon the Holy Spirit -- and He will work upon  their hearts, bringing them to faith in Jesus Christ, bringing them to eternal life in Christ.

Unfortunately, those who are saved after the Rapture WILL have to go through the terrible Tribulation.  But, God will use them mightily to save many others.   We are told in Revelation 7:9 that a great multitude, a number too large to count, will be saved during  the Tribulation.

These people will be saved and will spend eternity in the presence of God.  But, they will suffer greatly during the Tribulation; with most of them being killed, martyred, for their faith in Jesus Christ.  The vast majority of them will be brutally murdered during that  terrible seven years of the Tribulation -- many for not accepting the sign of the anti-Christ, the mark of the beast (Revelation 16:2, 19:20).

So, Uno, I see two results coming from Harold Camping's misguided fiasco regarding the Rapture.  One will be that many folks will begin to wonder about and ask about the Rapture -- which can bring folks to faith in Jesus Christ.  This silly episode can even cause many existing Christians, who do not really understand the Rapture, to dig more deeply into their Bibles and learn more about God's Written Word.

I am a good example of that.  I was saved in 1987; yet, in 1991 when the Gulf War was happening in Kuwait and Iraq -- I had no idea what people meant when they mentioned the Rapture.  I recall a Bible study when all the oil wells were burning in Kuwait and black  smoke filled the air -- causing the sky to be black.  "I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood"  (Revelation 6:12).

Our Bible study leader, Tom Fletcher, began to talk about the Rapture.  I had no idea what he was talking about -- but, I was not going to show my ignorance by asking (that reluctance to ask, as I have learned as I mature in God's Word, is a type of ignorance).   Yet, upon looking back upon that evening -- I am sure that I was not the only one who did not know about the Rapture during that Bible study.

As a result of that evening, I have spent the last twenty years studying eschatology, a study of the End Times -- and, I feel that I have a pretty good knowledge of what the Bible teaches about the Rapture, the Tribulation, the Millennial Kingdom, etc.   And, hopefully, this silly fiasco birthed by Harold Camping will have the same positive result among many other people -- both believers and non-believers, bringing many non-believers to faith in Christ.

So, Uno, we will let everyone view your atheist inspired video once again:

After The Rapture:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ture=player_embedded

And, I will close by sharing this Scripture verse with our Friends; for, I believe we all can see how well this fits all our atheist Friends.

2 Thessalonians 2:11, "For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false."

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill was mentioning what would a atheist world be like.  I recall the community of Liberal Missouri being set up to be an atheist Utopia but I don't think it ended up that way.  

 

Regarding the Rapture ( from the Christian's standpoint ) the world will be a very nasty and dangerous place but not because of the Atheist or non-believers.  Christians teach, and believe, that God's ultimate Wrath will be loosed upon the world after the Rapture.  God's believers/saints/Christians will be removed from the world in order to save them from the events that are to occur.  

 

I personally believe that there will be a Rapture of God's Saints/Believers/Christians and I believe that even before the Rapture it will be a time where there will be Great Wars all over the planet if not another World War.  I believe that we will see unprecedented death due to famine and due to the Wars that are going on, during that time.  I believe it will be a very hard and tough time for Christians and the Church due to the antichrist and his fighting against people of faith.  It will be a very hard and difficult time to be a Christian.  It will be a time of economic hardship as well as dangerous due to the military conflicts and repercussions from that in that at least 25% of the worlds population will experience death during this time, including many Christians.  

 

After those times however I believe scripture teaches  there will be unprecedented signs and occurrences in the sky and on earth.  The great earthquakes that Mr. Camping thought were going to happen will indeed happen such that the magnitude would be unprecedented up and unto that time.  Events just as unprecedented in the sky will be seen which will signal that God's wrath is about to began.  It is at this time, that I believe scripture teaches,  (as told in Revelation 7:9) that the Rapture occurs after which God's Wrath will be unleashed upon Earth and it's remaining inhabitants and the events that occur then will not be man mad as in War but will be more along the line of the Plagues of God that Egypt was said to have endured only on a much larger scale.  Supernatural Spiritual battles will also be going on and people who are alive will seek death in order to escape.

The really great news is that your wicked concept of a so called "rapture" where your backwards concept of a God who would snatch away the faithful and leave the rest to rot, will never happen.

 

But you just keep on a-wishing for it.

 

You do not have the courage to change the world yourself, so you selfishly await God to do your dirty work for you.

 

You shame the name of Jesus.

quote:   Originally Posted by alwilliams767:

The really great news is that your wicked concept of a so called "rapture" where your backwards concept of a God who would snatch away the faithful and leave the rest to rot, will never happen.   But you just keep on a-wishing for it.   You do not have the courage to change the world yourself, so you selfishly await God to do your dirty work for you.   You shame the name of Jesus.


Hi Al,

 

Are you speaking of your New Age Jesus (the one with the extraterrestrial name) who, most likely, looks like a combination of Shirley Maclaine and Oprah?  And, you are right.  You most likely will not find the Rapture in your New Age Urantia Book bible.  However, it most certainly is taught in God's Written Word, the Bible.

 

So, now that I have answered your question, you are free to go back to your psychic reading, seance, or searching for you aura.   Whatever you were doing before we woke you.  And, I will get on with discussing God's Word with the big people.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

I just watched the video from youtube.  I live in the country and only have dialup so it took me a while.  But after about an hour of letting this.......(I can't even think of a word) come onto my computer screen, I am shaking!!!!!  I am sickened by it.  I am sadened by it.  I am wondering how God hasn't sent Jesus back.  Of course I have been wondering that for a long time; as Paul, the apostle and others over the course of 2000+ years have done.  I can say one thing for the "thinking athiest", he certainly made ME think.  Think and PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for God to give me strength, knowledge and wisdom to proclaim His Glory more than ever. God's Mercy be on them.

AUsassygirl,  many Christians go week to week setting in their pews never realizing that there are people out there that have animosity toward not only religion or Christianity but those who claim the name of Christ.  It seems that most of the vitriol is directed toward professing/confessing Christians also.  Granted not all atheist are hostile toward Christians but it seems, for the most part, most are in one way or another.  Claims are made, many times, that Christians just can't let well enough alone but have to go and jump into peoples lives interrupting their right to live the way they want.  Never thinking that many atheist do exactly this same thing but then I guess it's alright when they do it to Christians.  Again I'm not speaking specifically but generally.  

 

As for our lot as time goes on I wish I could be encouraging however I do believe as time grows closer to the end times, whenever that may be, that antichrist and forces against those of God will become much stronger, more intense and more bitter.  Remember that to each of the 7 Churches of Revelation 2 & 3 the encouragement to overcome is given.  Christians, or representatives of Christ seem often to be minorities on this forum.  One would think that possibly a pastor or minister might join in the Frey from time to time but continue to pray and follow as the Holy Spirit leads you and I have no doubt you will get your strength.

Originally Posted by alwilliams767:

The really great news is that your wicked concept of a so called "rapture" where your backwards concept of a God who would snatch away the faithful and leave the rest to rot, will never happen.

 

But you just keep on a-wishing for it.

 

You do not have the courage to change the world yourself, so you selfishly await God to do your dirty work for you.

 

You shame the name of Jesus.

 

Just curious Al,   For the moment lets just assume or say that there is a Rapture or you were God and were going to rapture out a group before you released your Wrath and Judgment upon humankind.  Just who would you "snatch away"?   

 

Also, another question if you don't mind.  Given the following scripture in Matthew 24:22 what do you believe this verse is saying to the readers?   I'll post the verse here:

Matthew 24:22 (NLT)
22 In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive.
But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

 

Hi GBRK:

Interesting question.  First off, there will be no rapture.

 

Here is how it works:

God will allow EVERYONE who wishes to live a life eternal to join him in survival after death.  Christians, Hindus, Muslims, agnostics, even I'll bet quite a few atheists.  Everyone who has not rejected the plan of survival.  Lets look at the religionists first, as they are the easiest to comprehend...

God is infinite, beyond understanding.  The universe of universes is but an infinitesimal fraction of what God is.  Therefore it is not possible for the creature to understand what God is, especially on such a spiritually darkened world as this.

Therefore, every religionist who pledges his or her life to his or her concept of what God is, will surely survive.  Even Bill, with all his hatred for most everything which is true beautiful and good in this world will be given an opportunity to survive.  But will he take it, having to share eternity with all those dirty heathens?  That is the question.

GBRK, I bear no ill will upon you.  I look at you as a fellow traveler upon the eternal road of survival and progressive attainment of deity.  Someday you and I will know God, actually stand in God's presence.  It is a beautiful thing. 

In a similar fashion, I bear no ill will upon any religionist, unless, perchance, that person has so perverted the very idea of what religion is, that I feel the need to take that person to task.

Some religionists are just so wacked out, they have lost all concept of reality.  They have lost contact of what religion is, which is, in the final analysis, friendship with God. They have replaced what is true beautiful and good about religion with a fixed and dogmatic system of rigid belief... imprisoning religion into a dead set of rules and regulations.  Setting up a phony schedule of events which they feel must happen just because one of the many "sacred" books on this world has told them so.

These religionists have perverted religion to the point where it is no longer recognizable.  They have taken the one thing which is truly free and alive in the human existence and killed it, stuffed it inside a fixed and inflexible shell.

Bill is such a religionist.  This is why I am taking him to task.

His intolerance for the love of God in his fellow men and women sickens me, as it sickens most of the Christians here.

That is what I think about that. 

Hi Al Williams,

You tell us, "God will allow EVERYONE who wishes to live a life eternal to join him in survival after death.  Christians,  Hindus, Muslims, agnostics, even I'll bet quite a few atheists.  Everyone who has not rejected the plan of survival.  Lets look at the  religionists first, as they are the easiest to comprehend..."

Yet, Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6, "I am the WAY, and the Truth, and the Life; NO ONE comes to the Father but through Me."

Here, Jesus Christ is clearly telling us that He is the ONLY WAY into heaven -- and that NO ONE will go to heaven except through Him.  Is Jesus Christ confused?  Is He lying?  Al, you tell us one thing -- and Jesus tells us just the opposite.  

Which one are we to believe -- you OR Jesus Christ?

Then, Al, you tell us, "These religionists have perverted religion to the point where it is no longer recognizable.  They have taken the  one thing which is truly free and alive in the human existence and killed it, stuffed it inside a fixed and inflexible shell."

By "religionist" I presume you are referring to Christians.  Our Christian faith is based upon the Bible and only the Bible.  Yet, you say Christianity is perverted.   Why?  Is this because the Bible teaches the Truth -- and your belief is based solely on your New Age Urantia Book bible -- brought to earth in the 1950s by extraterrestrials?  

Sorry, I have to stop and share a chuckle with everyone.  When I write a post, I compose it in my Netscape composition window where I can save drafts and also, before posting, do a final spell check.  Just now, as I was doing a spell check -- when it came to  the word "Urantia" -- the spell check asked me if I wanted to replace that word with the word "Urinate."  By George, Al, my spell  checker is smarter than you and your New Age cult.  It knows the difference between the real Bible -- and the "Urinate" Book bible.

No, Al, I think I will stay with God and His Bible.  Before becoming a Christian in 1987, I lived in your "New Age / psychic / Tarot  Card / seance" world and even read all the books written by your leader, Shirley Maclaine.  Yep, I was a dyed-in-the-wool New Ager back then.  Then, praise God, I found Jesus Christ, the Bible, and God -- and turned my life around.  One day, I pray that you will  burn all your Shirley Maclaine paraphernalia -- pick up a real Bible -- and get to know the Lord.

Next, you declare, "Bill is such a religionist.  This is why I am taking him to task."

No, my Friend, not a "religionist" -- but, a born again Christian believer.  You really should give it a try.  If you will, you will be  eternally happy you did.

Finally, you say, "His intolerance for the love of God in his fellow men and women sickens me, as it sickens most of the Christians  here."

Well, Al, if I have a choice of pleasing the atheists - secularists - New Agers - those in the cult and world religions - those who have gotten a slight taste of Christianity and run the other way - those who are afraid of becoming a Christian because they think they will have to give up their worldly treasures and pleasures - and those who think the Bible is a nice book but is not the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God -- OR choosing to please my personal Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- well, my Friend, I will always opt for pleasing Jesus Christ.

So, Al, you and others can say that I am full of hatred because I share the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God -- without diluting it - without liberalizing it - without spiritualizing it - without rewriting it to make it fit today's societal, cultural norms -- not a  problem.  For, I will continue to call cult churches, cults -- I will continue to call New Age and world religions, false religions -- and I will continue to tell it like it is -- in the Bible.

Yes, I will continue to say that only those who, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus nothing else (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- have believed and received His "blood purchased" free gift of eternal salvation -- WILL go to heaven, i.e., eternal life in the  presence of God.

And, I will continue to say that everyone else WILL condemn themselves to eternal life in hell.

I will continue to tell everyone that your cult "Universalism" religion, i.e., that ALL people will go to heaven -- is unBiblical, is a false religion, and is a cult religion.

So, Al, if this is what YOU call hatred (although I am confident that Jesus Christ does not see it that way) -- then, I guess you can just keep on keeping on -- and so will I, but with my best Friend, Jesus Christ.

By the way, Al, say hello to Shirley Maclaine and Oprah the next time you attend a psychic Tarot Card reading or New Age seance.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by gbrk:

 

Just curious Al,   For the moment lets just assume or say that there is a Rapture or you were God and were going to rapture out a group before you released your Wrath and Judgment upon humankind.  Just who would you "snatch away"?   

 

Also, another question if you don't mind.  Given the following scripture in Matthew 24:22 what do you believe this verse is saying to the readers?   I'll post the verse here:

Matthew 24:22 (NLT)
22 In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive.
But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

-------------------------------------

 

Matt 24: 22

This is speaking of the reign of the Antichrist. It will be so bad we couldn't

live with it very long.

 

Iv

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

 

Just curious Al,   For the moment lets just assume or say that there is a Rapture or you were God and were going to rapture out a group before you released your Wrath and Judgment upon humankind.  Just who would you "snatch away"?   

 

Also, another question if you don't mind.  Given the following scripture in Matthew 24:22 what do you believe this verse is saying to the readers?   I'll post the verse here:

Matthew 24:22 (NLT)
22 In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive.
But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

-------------------------------------

 

Matt 24: 22

This is speaking of the reign of the Antichrist. It will be so bad we couldn't

live with it very long.

 

Iv

Invictus,  We agree on this.  Now can you follow that up with Matthew 24:29 compared to Revelation 6:12-14 what do you feel Christ is saying in Matthew 24:29 and is this the same thing as is being laid out in Revelation 6:12-14?

 


Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

 

Just curious Al,   For the moment lets just assume or say that there is a Rapture or you were God and were going to rapture out a group before you released your Wrath and Judgment upon humankind.  Just who would you "snatch away"?   

 

Also, another question if you don't mind.  Given the following scripture in Matthew 24:22 what do you believe this verse is saying to the readers?   I'll post the verse here:

Matthew 24:22 (NLT)
22 In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive.
But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

-------------------------------------

 

Matt 24: 22

This is speaking of the reign of the Antichrist. It will be so bad we couldn't

live with it very long.

 

Iv

Invictus,  We agree on this.  Now can you follow that up with Matthew 24:29 compared to Revelation 6:12-14 what do you feel Christ is saying in Matthew 24:29 and is this the same thing as is being laid out in Revelation 6:12-14?

 

----------------------------------

gb..........What I see in Matt.24: 29

 

Right after tribulation when all is revved up for Jesus' return. The sun is dark,

the moon is red and the stars could also be a meteor shower.

The sign in Heaven ( the cross ) can be seen. The power of heaven will

shake the earth.

 

Rev.6: 12-14

 

This also speakes of the time after Tribulation. The earth is shaken by earthquakes

and its darkened. Every person will know the end is now and fear the judgement

of God and wish they could hide, they can't. Jesus will be seen from from every

place on earth at the same time, at the speed of lightning.

You can't call your friend in calif. with a heads up. Its to late.

 

In both, things are being laid out. Who God finds who is to be marked that is washed

of the tribes. After the earth is turned upside down, the judgement.

 

(This is just what I see.)

 

Iv

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 -- the last people standing on earth will be the non-believers.  Wow!  Are they going to have a real shock?

And, to Uno I say -- your atheist video is an interesting concept.  However, it overlooked one VERY important point.  What kind of world will exist with only atheists and other non-believers on earth and at each other's throats?  What kind of world will exist when all  Christian influence is taken out at the Rapture, when the Christian church has been removed to heaven?

 




Suddenly, all those kooky Christians WILL be gone.  And, all that will be left will be those who will say, "Sure, I will do good deeds for you, I will help you.  Oh, you are wondering what you are feeling -- that is my hand stealing your wallet to cover my cost of helping you!"

Yes, my Friends, the world will truly be a miserable place when only the non-believers have it all to themselves.  They are going to be the most shocked people you can imagine.  For, without the restraining power of the Holy Spirit, without the influence of the  Christian communities -- sin and evil will run rampant; for there will be nothing to restrain it.


Oh. OK. As the gospel according to BeeG states-

All atheists are thieves. Hmm... Are you a thief, Jennifer? Uno?  I bet you're not.  I'm not either.

Funny how BeeG thinks that the only thing holding all us evil atheists at bay are the christians.

Once they go back to their mother ship-total anarchy will reign because BeeG says atheists have no self-control and are inherently evil.

 

Actually I think the world might become a more reasonable, peaceful place without Napoleonic christians like BEEG, what with people thinking for themselves and just doing what is right because it's the right thing to do instead of doing things to earn brownie points for an eternal effing reward. It'll work out even better I suppose if each christian would grab a jihadist or other religious zealot under each arm and take 'em with them on the way back to the home planet they figure they come from.

 


 

Ummm, RoadPuppy?  Most Christians do think for themselves and do what is right, because it is right and are not worrying about or trying to earn brownie points.  Just saying, that's as broad a statement as Bill implying all atheists are evil.

 

Semi said: -

"My animosity is for people  that wear the Christian hat, but do not have a Christian heart. They make me sick! "

I complete understand and agree! But please remember not all of us Christians are like that.

RP the only reason bill thinks religion is all that's holding people back is because that facade is all that holds him and his kind in check.  I don't think bill is a real christian, I don't think bill is a good man with only our best interest at heart. Bill uses religion to justify his hatred and prejudices against others. Bill is lucky there is no god because the fact is if there was a god, and he had his rapture party, old bill and some other so called christians would still be here. They would be seeing non-believers and others that they had run down for all this time being "raptured" because they were far and away better people than they are.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

RP the only reason bill thinks religion is all that's holding people back is because that facade is all that holds him and his kind in check.  I don't think bill is a real christian, I don't think bill is a good man with only our best interest at heart. Bill uses religion to justify his hatred and prejudices against others. Bill is lucky there is no god because the fact is if there was a god, and he had his rapture party, old bill and some other so called christians would still be here. They would be seeing non-believers and others that they had run down for all this time being "raptured" because they were far and away better people than they are.

 

 

 

You have a crush on bill.

Originally Posted by canade:

Semi said: -

"My animosity is for people  that wear the Christian hat, but do not have a Christian heart. They make me sick! "

I complete understand and agree! But please remember not all of us Christians are like that.

I didn't mean to lump all Christians into my comment, & I apologize for that.  It's just that I've met very few that is truly Christians. Bill is a prime example of one that wears the hat. Sad, isn't it?

Bill is the ultimate religion troll folks. Stop feeding the troll.
It isn't very productive for him or you because his rhetoric just goes in circles.
Leave him to his shuttered, elitist view of the Earth.
Learning or changing isn't one of his strong points, so your words will have no effect upon him.

Someday we can hope that he will open his eyes to see the evidence around him.
Then, and only then will he begin to understand how deep the rabit hole really goes.
For the rabbit hole is extremely deep and takes many paths which we are always discovering.
Understanding the world around you is essential to living a wonderful and enjoyable life.

What have I ever done to you bluetick? What have I ever posted that others didn't post the exact same thing or worse? Is it because I don't fawn over certain people? True, there are some whose posts I don't care to read or respond to, and when someone starts up with me for no reason then yes, I will reply in kind and then let them be. I guess if I told certain people how wonderful, brave and witty they are I could "get away" with a lot more but that's not me. I don't do that unless I mean it. Semi seems sweet, I like invictus even though I do try to "bust his balls". I like RP and I wish I could buy him a ticket back North. I like to read Unob's posts. Windsong was OK until his Skippy persona emerged and it got confusing and funny, but Skippy is mostly harmless. I don't care for bill and a couple of others because they're "hateful",  but I don't like bill getting away with his bull so I will post to him. There is nothing wrong with GB except the long posts full of bible quotes that make it hard to read his opinions.  All in all I like plenty more posters than I "dislike". But you're entitled to your opinion just like I'm entitled to mine.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

What have I ever done to you bluetick? What have I ever posted that others didn't post the exact same thing or worse? Is it because I don't fawn over certain people? True, there are some whose posts I don't care to read or respond to, and when someone starts up with me for no reason then yes, I will reply in kind and then let them be. I guess if I told certain people how wonderful, brave and witty they are I could "get away" with a lot more but that's not me. I don't do that unless I mean it. Semi seems sweet, I like invictus even though I do try to "bust his balls". I like RP and I wish I could buy him a ticket back North. I like to read Unob's posts. Windsong was OK until his Skippy persona emerged and it got confusing and funny, but Skippy is mostly harmless. I don't care for bill and a couple of others because they're "hateful",  but I don't like bill getting away with his bull so I will post to him. There is nothing wrong with GB except the long posts full of bible quotes that make it hard to read his opinions.  All in all I like plenty more posters than I "dislike". But you're entitled to your opinion just like I'm entitled to mine.


 

Be mad if you want to but I don't think I have ever met such an ill azz. Most of us do this for the hel-ovit. You on the other-hand seem serious.

quote:  Originally Posted by prince albert:

No such thing as a Rapture, there will be a Resurrection of the dead.

Question: has there been anybody Raptured yet?

Hi Albert,

You tell us, "No such thing as a Rapture, there will be a Resurrection of the dead."

If there is no Rapture -- then, what is 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 -- and specifically verse 17 -- talking about when we are told that  those remaining, i.e., still alive -- will be "caught up" (harpazo in Greek, rapiemur in Latin)?

If there is no Rapture -- what is 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 -- and specifically verse 52 -- talking about when we are told we will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye?

In John 14:1-3 Jesus Christ tells us, "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.  In My Father's house are  many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.  If I go and prepare a place for you,  I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."

What does He mean when He tells us, "I will come again and receive you to Myself"?   He is telling us of the coming Rapture when He will come in the air, in the clouds, to take out, "catch up" (harpazo in Greek, rapiemur in Latin) His church, the worldwide body of believers -- to be with Him eternally.

You ask, "Question: Has there been anybody Raptured yet?"

Actually, yes.   We know that Enoch did not die; but, was Raptured.   We read in Genesis 5:24, "Enoch walked with God; and he  was not, for God took him."

There was Elijah.  We read about his Rapture in 2 Kings 2:9-13, "When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, 'Ask what  I shall do for you before I am taken from you.'   And Elisha said, 'Please, let a double portion of your spirit be upon me'. . .  As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them.  And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.  Elisha saw it and cried out, 'My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!'   And he saw Elijah no more.  Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces.  He also took up the mantle of Elijah that fell from him and returned and stood by the bank of the Jordan."

And, Albert, the most important Rapture -- that of Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:9-11, "And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.  And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.   They also said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven,  will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.'"

So, Albert, yes -- we know that Enoch, Elijah, and, most importantly, Jesus Christ were Raptured.  And, because of this and what we are promised in John 14:1-3, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18, and in 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 -- we know that all believers will be taken out, Raptured, before the Tribulation begins (Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Albert, you say, "there will be a Resurrection of the dead."

Yes, that is true.  Those who have died in Christ, have fallen asleep (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16) will be resurrected first.  Then, those of us who are still alive when the Rapture occurs will follow them, in a blink of the eye (1 Corinthians 15:52), to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17).  This is the resurrection of the believers.  

And, all believers will stand before Jesus Christ in the Believer's Judgment (often called the Bema Seat Judgment), a judgment of rewards.  This occurs while the church is in heaven during the seven year Tribulation; for this is the final preparation for the Bride of Christ to prepare herself for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb (Revelation 19:6-9).

Those who died still denying Jesus Christ, still disbelieving, will be raised, i.e., resurrected at the end of the 1000 year Millennial Reign of Christ on earth (Revelation 20:5) -- and they will then stand before Jesus Christ in the Great White Throne Judgment.  Once He has shown them the evilness and futility of their earthly lives -- they will all go into the lake of fire, eternal hell.

Albert, I am happy that you and I will be in the Believers' Judgment -- and, I pray that we can bring many of our Forum Friends with us; those who, today, still deny God and mock all Christian believers.  If we can bring even one of these Friends with us -- what a  blessing that will be.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by gbrk:

As for our lot as time goes on I wish I could be encouraging however I do believe as time grows closer to the end times, whenever that may be, that antichrist and forces against those of God will become much stronger, more intense and more bitter. 

GB,

 

The last time the world witnessed such a massive interest in rational thinmking and debunking the edicts professed by the church was called "The Enlightenment."  That directly led to the establishment of a SECULAR nation founded by mostly SECULAR men who laid out the foundation for the most powerful nation in earth.

 

There was another mini-enlightenment in the late 1800's after the civil war.  There was another in the 20's after WWI.  There was another in the 40's after WWII then McCarthy combatted that.  There was another after 911.  That's the one that got me.  I could no longer believe in a god who drove planes into buildings.

You and your fundamentalist friends are not ready to embrace rational thinking.  You are not capable of it.  Thank god the rest of us will pull your dead weight and usher in a new age of rational thinking.  We will take you to the stars if you will let us.

 

quote:  Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
quote:  Originally Posted by gbrk:

As for our lot as time goes on I wish I could be encouraging however I do believe as time grows closer to the end times, whenever that may be, that antichrist and forces against those of God will become much stronger, more intense and more bitter.

GB,   The last time the world witnessed such a massive interest in rational thinmking (sic) and debunking the edicts professed by the church was called "The Enlightenment."  That directly led to the establishment of a SECULAR nation founded by mostly SECULAR men who laid out the foundation for the most powerful nation in earth. 

 

There was another mini-enlightenment in the late 1800's after the civil war.  There was another in the 20's after WWI.  There was another in the 40's after WWII then McCarthy combatted that.  There was another after 911.  That's the one that got me.  I could no longer believe in a god who drove planes into buildings.

You and your fundamentalist friends are not ready to embrace rational thinking.  You are not capable of it.  Thank god the rest of us will pull your dead weight and usher in a new age of rational thinking.  We will take you to the stars if you will let us.


 Hi Uno,

 

True, France had the Enlightenment -- and it has never recovered from it yet.

 

But, I have to ask what you are smoking when you say, " I could no longer believe in a god who drove planes into buildings.

 

The last I heard, there were Islamic Militant Terrorists flying those planes into the WTC and the Pentagon.   What are you sniffing or smoking that tells you God was in the pilot seats? 

 

It is actually comical the lengths you atheists will go to -- in your attempt to defame God.  And, it amazes me that you continue to blame the God you do not believe in -- for all the disasters in the world.   So, what is it?  Does God exist and, in your mind, cause these disasters?

 

Or, does God not exist, in your mind, and it is only what you are sniffing or smoking which makes you think this is all from a non-existent God?

 

My Friend, you raise religious schizophrenia to a new level!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hey guys.  Just got online today.  Been reading all your thoughts.  Thanks GBRK for your encouragement.  I really appreciate that.  First of all, I want you all to know that I am a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. I believe I said that before; but it bears repeating.  Now, I also want all of you know that there isn't ONE person in this forum that I don't love!  Yes it is possible to disagree with people and still love them.  Jesus said to hate sin but love the sinner.  That is one command that is completely universal.  We all fall into that category.  EVERYONE.  One of you mentioned that we need Preachers on this forum.  You are right.  We do; and I intend to make my Pastor aware of this forum.  My dad was a minister for 69 years.  He passed March 25, 2004.  I miss him so very much.  He was a kind, wonderful, loving BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.  I KNOW he is in Heaven with God.  Now, I have searched the scriptures a lot the last 2 days.  I could sit here and post the entire Bible; but something tells me that ALL of you have a copy.  Whether you are a believer or a non-believer as to Christianity.  So from time to time I will come across a scripture that I want you to read.  I could tell all of you who don't believe as I do that I can't wait for you to have your rude awakening when you open your eyes in hell.  But that's not my job.  My job and command as a Christian is to continue to share my beliefs with you.  By doing so, I am praying that you will read something that God gives to me to give to you.  I will not back down.  I will take your words and in return I will share mine with you.  Jesus also said to be angry and sin not. So let us all debate, check our anger at the keyboard and not blast each other.  And no matter how you spell words, Buffalo, we do get the meaning.  So let's at least be kind to one another.  I am serious.  God bless each and everyone of you. 

I could tell all of you who don't believe as I do that I can't wait for you to have your rude awakening when you open your eyes in hell. [quote]

 

Well Ausassy, thats mighty Christian of you. I might say the same for you, except I, as an atheist, don't wish for anyone to hurry up and die. With no otherway to put it except as a stupid statement, I would love to see the look on your face when you die and don't open your eyes anywhere. That will be a rude non-awakening. I look forward to another fanatic ramming God down my throat. I KNOW you won't back down. Neither will I or Tom Petty.

 

ps..there are some christians out there that don't believe as you do either.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Hi AU. No, I don't have a bible anymore and no offense but I don't read it when it's posted here. Been there done that so to speak. Couple of things, exactly what sin have you seen on this forum, and if you bring in a preacher we'll have to bury bill.

Well Jennifer it is your right to have-have not or read-read not. When it comes to the Bible.  I can't nor will I even try to make you.   That's impossible.  But it breaks my heart that you feel that way.  I believe that you have really been hurt by someone who has claimed to be a christian.  I'm not trying to anaylize you.  Please don't think that.  But I'm just feeling for you as a person and a human being with a heart.  As for as the sins in this forum.  Well obviously what I see as sin may or may not be the same as you do.  However, what I meant by that statement was everyone sins.  Even Christians.  No one is without sin.  Why don't you enlighten me as to your definition of sin.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

What have I ever done to you bluetick? What have I ever posted that others didn't post the exact same thing or worse? Is it because I don't fawn over certain people? True, there are some whose posts I don't care to read or respond to, and when someone starts up with me for no reason then yes, I will reply in kind and then let them be. I guess if I told certain people how wonderful, brave and witty they are I could "get away" with a lot more but that's not me. I don't do that unless I mean it. Semi seems sweet, I like invictus even though I do try to "bust his balls". I like RP and I wish I could buy him a ticket back North. I like to read Unob's posts. Windsong was OK until his Skippy persona emerged and it got confusing and funny, but Skippy is mostly harmless. I don't care for bill and a couple of others because they're "hateful",  but I don't like bill getting away with his bull so I will post to him. There is nothing wrong with GB except the long posts full of bible quotes that make it hard to read his opinions.  All in all I like plenty more posters than I "dislike". But you're entitled to your opinion just like I'm entitled to mine.

You've never done anything to me, and you are entitled to your opinion. If you read enough of my stuff on here you will see that I zing even my best friends from time to time. As for fawning, when I see something that I admire in a person, I am compelled to let them know. I can disagree with someone strongly, and still respect and admire certain traits they have. I am friends with Ono and Buttercup and they have had some bitter disagreements. Both have been good to me as have many others and they remain my friends. If you reread your posts you will see that often you come out guns a blazin. Thats your style and I suppose theres nothing wrong with it, but a kind word can go a long way. I do enjoy reading your posts, but honestly, I wonder why you seem so mad.

Originally Posted by Ausassygirl:

I could tell all of you who don't believe as I do that I can't wait for you to have your rude awakening when you open your eyes in hell.

 

Originally Posted by bluetick:

Well Ausassy, thats mighty Christian of you. I might say the same for you, except I, as an atheist, don't wish for anyone to hurry up and die. With no otherway to put it except as a stupid statement, I would love to see the look on your face when you die and don't open your eyes anywhere. That will be a rude non-awakening. I look forward to another fanatic ramming God down my throat. I KNOW you won't back down. Neither will I or Tom Petty.

 

ps..there are some christians out there that don't believe as you do either.

Yeah, Tick, I caught that too. Very rude and stupid. Thank she could be Bill's better-half?

Originally Posted by bluetick:

I could tell all of you who don't believe as I do that I can't wait for you to have your rude awakening when you open your eyes in hell. [quote]

 

Well Ausassy, thats mighty Christian of you. I might say the same for you, except I, as an atheist, don't wish for anyone to hurry up and die. With no otherway to put it except as a stupid statement, I would love to see the look on your face when you die and don't open your eyes anywhere. That will be a rude non-awakening. I look forward to another fanatic ramming God down my throat. I KNOW you won't back down. Neither will I or Tom Petty.

 

ps..there are some christians out there that don't believe as you do either.

Point taken blue.  Again, sorry if I offended you by my statement.  Let me explain.  I was referring to an attitude of some people who call themselves christian.  However, even with them it is not my place to judge as to their validity. So, you said you don't wish anyone to die.  Please know that neither do I.  But your reasons are different from mine, I suppose.  If believing in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour is being a fanatic, then thank you for the compliment.  I am not trying to ram God down your throat.   I thought we were having a discussion here.  I admit I am new to this but I was under the impression that was what  a forum was for.  I didn't see anywhere that this was an atheist only forum.

ps.  Let Tom Petty speak for himself.

I don't know Semi. I am about 2/3 of the way through a bottle of Mezcal and am almost to the worm. I think I'd best recuse myself and retire from the forum tonight before I really stick my foot in my mouth. I done got Jennifer mad at me. I think I'll go to the porch with my pipe and bottle and think happy thoughts. Will it sound like "fawning" if I say you will be included in those thoughts?

 

 

wait wait wait..don't take that the wrong way.

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