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I thought so.

You see, Bill, my father was a Freemason. He reached the upper levels. He was a Shriner and a Jester. And I can assure you that he was not in any way, shape, or form an evil person.

In fact he was a deacon, then an elder in our church for as long as I can remember. He was very active in another "secret" organization - the Lions Club. I guess all the charitable activities that I accompanied him on were just cover for his Satanic works, right?

So I am here to tell you, you know nothing about the topic, except what some delusional, conspiracy theory, lunatics have printed. All false.

But continue on with your blissed delusions.
Hi Crusty,

When you say your dad held a high degree within the Masons; what level was that?

When I speak of the higher levels, I am speaking of the 30th to the 33rd degree Masons. Did you dad attain those degree levels? If not, then he had no idea what was going on at those levels -- nor any oaths they had to take to attain those degree levels.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
The Masons are not a religious organization. They are also not anti-Christianity. There are many church leaders who have attained high levels in the Free Masons.

If you think that being a high level Free Mason means you have to be involved in witchcraft or pagan rituals, you know nothing about the Masons. Being a Free Mason does not mean one has to discard their Christian beliefs. It is simply about making a good man better.

That's all I have to say about that.
Hi Nash,

I would venture to say that those pastors who are also Masons are still in the lower degrees, surely not above the 5th to 10th degree -- and have no idea about what happens in the higher degrees.

Yes, I have Christian friends who are in the Masons; but, they, too, are lower degree Masons -- where the great majority of Masons stay.

I am not knocking the Masons; just saying that a Christian could not be in the upper degrees.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty,

When you say your dad held a high degree within the Masons; what level was that?

When I speak of the higher levels, I am speaking of the 30th to the 33rd degree Masons. Did you dad attain those degree levels? If not, then he had no idea what was going on at those levels -- nor any oaths they had to take to attain those degree levels.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


To be a Shriner, one must attain the 32nd level.

Hopefully, no one you know has been treated in the Satanically oriented Shriner's Hospitals.

Really, Bill, I bet you believe that John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High", and the song "Puff the Magic Dragon" are about drugs. Do you also believe that Mickey Mouse is an instrument of Satan, and that Teletubbies are gay?

I think your Haight Ashbury days are flashing back on you.

Have another blissed day.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty,

When you say your dad held a high degree within the Masons; what level was that?

When I speak of the higher levels, I am speaking of the 30th to the 33rd degree Masons. Did you dad attain those degree levels? If not, then he had no idea what was going on at those levels -- nor any oaths they had to take to attain those degree levels.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill

To be a Shriner, one must attain the 32nd level.

Hi Crusty,

No, my Friend, as you can see below, a person only has to attain the 3rd degree of Masonry to become a Shriner. This is taken from a Masonic web site.

What is a Shrine Mason?
http://www.campalzafar.org/what_is_a_shriner.htm

Every Shriner is first a Mason; however, in many parts of North America, Masonry does not solicit members. In these areas, no one is asked to join. A man must seek admission of his own free will. A man is a fully accepted "Blue Lodge" Mason after he has received the first three degrees, known as Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

After that, he may belong to many other organizations which have their roots in Masonry and which have a Blue Lodge Masonry as a prerequisite. Scottish Rite, York Rite and the Shrine.

Once accepted as an Apprentice Mason of the Craft Lodge, each member works his way up through three degrees. To earn each degree, a Mason must learn certain lessons and participate in a ceremony that illustrates them. At the third degree, he reaches Master Mason after which he may then petition to become a Noble of the Shrine.


So, as I said, the large majority of Masons have no idea what is going on in the top levels. I can recommend a great book to read which will give you a Christian Perspective of Freemasonry. The book is "The Secret Teachings Of The Masonic Lodge" -- written by John Ankerberg and John Weldon, and published by Moody Press, 1990. This book will give you good insights into Freemasonry and why Christians should not belong to the Masons.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill I wonder if you ever get tired of being wrong. You don't go far enough in your research.

Here is a site that will answer all your questions about Freemasons.

For instance:

quote:
"There are three degrees in Masonry. Other appendant bodies confer additional degrees, up to the 32nd (or the honorary 33rd) of the Scottish Rite, but in symbolic Masonry (or Blue Lodge Masonry) proper, there are only three. At the Blue Lodge, Masons receive the degrees of Entered Apprentice (first degree), Fellowcraft (second degree), and Master Mason (third degree). "


Later:

quote:
What is the Scottish Rite?

The Scottish Rite is an appendant body of Masonry, meaning that it is not part of the Blue Lodge per se, but closely associated with Masonry. It requires that a man be a Master Mason before joining the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite confers the 4th through 32nd degrees.


Finally:

quote:
What is the Shrine?

The Shrine is not an appendant body of Masonry, though the distinction would escape many. The Shrine confers no additional degrees. It was founded in 1872 (the Mecca Shrine in New York City) and an Arabic theme was chosen. Hence, the distinctive red fez that Shriners wear at official functions.

Members of the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles the Mystic Shrine for North America (AASONM is an anagram for "A MASON") are members of the Scottish Rite's 32nd degree, and/or Knights Shriner of the York Rite. The Shrine is most noted for its emphasis on philanthropy and its jolly outlook on life-- it has been called "the playground of Masonry". This is expressed as "Pleasure without intemperance, hospitality without rudeness, and jollity without coarseness."


See that last red part? There is a difference in petitioning to become a Shriner and actually becoming one.

So, your conspiracy theories regarding the Freemasons are just as misguided as your stand on evolution.

For your reference: FAQ about Masonry
Hi Crusty,

So, I have found one Freemason's web site which tells me one thing about the Masons/Shriners -- and you have found another Freemason's web site which teaches something different. Why am I not surprised?

If you want a good Christian viewpoint on Freemasonry; I still recommend you read the book "The Secret Teachings Of The Masonic Lodge - A Christian Perspective" -- written by John Ankerberg and John Weldon, and published by Moody Press, 1990. This book will give you good insights into Freemasonry and why Christians should not belong to the Masons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From another Freemason web site: http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/...masonic_degrees.html

Whilst members of the philanthropic club, the Shrine, may style themselves "Shrine Masons", and members of the Scottish Rite will call themselves "Scottish Rite Masons", it is only the fact that they have received the first three degrees, and continue to be members of a Craft lodge, that permits them to call themselves freemasons.

Craft Freemasonry (Blue Lodge)

1° Entered Apprentice
2° Fellowcraft
3° Master Mason

Scottish Rite Lodge

4° Secret Master

5° Perfect Master

6° Confidential [Intimate] Secretary

7° Provost and Judge

8° Intendent of the Building

9° Elu, or Elected Knight, of the Nine

10° Illustrious Elect or Elu of the Fifteen

11° Sublime Knight Elect, or Elu, of the Twelve

12° [Grand] Master Architect

13° Knight of the Ninth Arch, or Royal Arch of Solomon

14° Grand Elect, Perfect and Sublime Mason, or Perfect Elu

Chapter of Rose Croix

15° Knight of the Sword [of the East]

16° Prince of Jerusalem

17° Knight of the East and West

18° Knight [Prince] Rose Croix

Council of Kadosh

19° [Grand] Pontiff

20° [Grand] Master of Symbolic Lodges

21° Noachite or Prussian Knight

22° Knight of the Royal Axe

23° Chief of the Tabernacle

24° Prince of the Tabernacle

25° Knight of the Brazen Serpent

26° Prince of Mercy

27° Knight Commander of the Temple

28° Knight of the Sun, or Prince Adept

29° Grand Scottish Knight of St. Andrew

30° Knight Kadosh

Consistory of Sublime Princes

31° Inspector Inquisitor Commander

32° Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret

Supreme Council

33° Sovereign Grand Inspector General

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As you can see, Crusty, there are 33 degrees through which a Freemason, or a Shriner Mason, can rise. And, the vast majority of Masons stay in the lower degrees, with little or no knowledge of what transpires in the upper degrees.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, I can find you website after website that supports my position. This from Wikepedia (note that my father died in 1981 which is well before 2000):

quote:
Membership
Despite its theme, the Shrine is in no way connected to Islam. It is a men's fraternity rather than a religion or religious group. Its only religious requirement is indirect: all Shriners must be Masons, and petitioners to Freemasonry must profess a belief in a Supreme Being. To further minimize confusion with religion, the use of the word "Temple" to describe Shriners' buildings has been replaced by "Shrine Center," although individual local chapters are still called "Temples."

Until 2000, before being eligible for membership in the Shrine, a person had to complete either the Scottish Rite or York Rite degrees of Masonry,[5] but now any Master Mason can join.


Wikipedia

So, am I still wrong? Or are you going to once again continue to support an erroneous interpretation in the face of overwhelming evidence?
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty,

So, I have found one Freemason's web site which tells me one thing about the Masons/Shriners -- and you have found another Freemason's web site which teaches something different. Why am I not surprised?

If you want a good Christian viewpoint on Freemasonry; I still recommend you read the book "The Secret Teachings Of The Masonic Lodge - A Christian Perspective" -- written by John Ankerberg and John Weldon, and published by Moody Press, 1990. This book will give you good insights into Freemasonry and why Christians should not belong to the Masons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From another Freemason web site: http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/...masonic_degrees.html

Whilst members of the philanthropic club, the Shrine, may style themselves "Shrine Masons", and members of the Scottish Rite will call themselves "Scottish Rite Masons", it is only the fact that they have received the first three degrees, and continue to be members of a Craft lodge, that permits them to call themselves freemasons.

Craft Freemasonry (Blue Lodge)

1° Entered Apprentice
2° Fellowcraft
3° Master Mason

Scottish Rite Lodge

4° Secret Master

5° Perfect Master

6° Confidential [Intimate] Secretary

7° Provost and Judge

8° Intendent of the Building

9° Elu, or Elected Knight, of the Nine

10° Illustrious Elect or Elu of the Fifteen

11° Sublime Knight Elect, or Elu, of the Twelve

12° [Grand] Master Architect

13° Knight of the Ninth Arch, or Royal Arch of Solomon

14° Grand Elect, Perfect and Sublime Mason, or Perfect Elu

Chapter of Rose Croix

15° Knight of the Sword [of the East]

16° Prince of Jerusalem

17° Knight of the East and West

18° Knight [Prince] Rose Croix

Council of Kadosh

19° [Grand] Pontiff

20° [Grand] Master of Symbolic Lodges

21° Noachite or Prussian Knight

22° Knight of the Royal Axe

23° Chief of the Tabernacle

24° Prince of the Tabernacle

25° Knight of the Brazen Serpent

26° Prince of Mercy

27° Knight Commander of the Temple

28° Knight of the Sun, or Prince Adept

29° Grand Scottish Knight of St. Andrew

30° Knight Kadosh

Consistory of Sublime Princes

31° Inspector Inquisitor Commander

32° Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret

Supreme Council

33° Sovereign Grand Inspector General

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As you can see, Crusty, there are 33 degrees through which a Freemason, or a Shriner Mason, can rise. And, the vast majority of Masons stay in the lower degrees, with little or no knowledge of what transpires in the upper degrees.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


All this says is that to continue to call themselves Freemasons, they have to maintain their membership in the Blue Lodge.

Reread this slowly, it is confusing you:

it is only the fact that they have received the first three degrees, and continue to be members of a Craft lodge, that permits them to call themselves freemasons.
Nevermind, Bill. You can continue believing whatever you want. I checked with my Aunt, and she says that my father was indeed a 32nd degree mason.

So to put us back on track, your book that says that higher level masonry is the work of Satan or whatever is a load of crap. It's right up there with the people who say that the US government was responsible for 9/11.

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