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This is very direct approach....

How do we know that Mormons, Muslims and Christians are delusional?

"If you are a Christian, you are about to begin
a fascinating journey. In the next ten minutes
it will become clear to you that your belief in God is delusional.

The goal of this short video is to help you look in a mirror and understand the delusion of Christianity. Once you can see what is going on, the hope is that you will be able to start healing your delusion. With each healing, we make our world a better place."
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Satan's Letter (from Earth to his friends in heaven).
This is a strange place, and extraordinary place, and interesting. There is nothing resembling it at home. The people are all insane, the other animals are all insane, the earth is insane, Nature itself is insane. Man is a marvelous curiosity. When he is at his very very best he is a sort of low grade nickel-plated angel; at is worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm. Yet he blandly and in all sincerity calls himself the "noblest work of God." This is the truth I am telling you. And this is not a new idea with him, he has talked it through all the ages, and believed it. Believed it, and found nobody among all his race to laugh at it.

Moreover -- if I may put another strain upon you -- he thinks he is the Creator's pet. He believes the Creator is proud of him; he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes, and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to Him, and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea? Fills his prayers with crude and bald and florid flatteries of Him, and thinks He sits and purrs over these extravagancies and enjoys them. He prays for help, and favor, and protection, every day; and does it with hopefulness and confidence, too, although no prayer of his has ever been answered. The daily affront, the daily defeat, do not discourage him, he goes on praying just the same. There is something almost fine about this perseverance. I must put one more strain upon you: he thinks he is going to heaven!

He has salaried teachers who tell him that. They also tell him there is a hell, of everlasting fire, and that he will go to it if he doesn't keep the Commandments. What are Commandments? They are a curiosity. I will tell you about them by and by.
-Mark Twain's "Letters from Earth"
LOL...Well, I listened to the whole thing and guess what? I'm still a Christian and there is no "delusion" in the fact that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Here's some very sound advice. If you want to know or understand what the Bible says, you should ask someone who studies and understands it. Asking an Atheist to explain Christianity or the Bible is WHAT?! Yep, delusional. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
LOL...Well, I listened to the whole thing and guess what? I'm still a Christian and there is no "delusion" in the fact that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Here's some very sound advice. If you want to know or understand what the Bible says, you should ask someone who studies and understands it. Asking an Atheist to explain Christianity or the Bible is WHAT?! Yep, delusional. Wink


Hi Joy, do you think any religion is delusional?

Or are they all on target?

Regards
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
LOL...Well, I listened to the whole thing and guess what? I'm still a Christian and there is no "delusion" in the fact that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Here's some very sound advice. If you want to know or understand what the Bible says, you should ask someone who studies and understands it. Asking an Atheist to explain Christianity or the Bible is WHAT?! Yep, delusional. Wink


Well said Joy. Isn't it interesting how these people are not satisfied with their own Godlessness, they want to evangelize for Satan, they literally want to be the Devil's Advocates. They can't just cling smugly to their non-belief, they want to attack your faith and convictions. Heap coals of fire on their head, PRAY FOR THEM... Wink
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
LOL...Well, I listened to the whole thing and guess what? I'm still a Christian and there is no "delusion" in the fact that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Here's some very sound advice. If you want to know or understand what the Bible says, you should ask someone who studies and understands it. Asking an Atheist to explain Christianity or the Bible is WHAT?! Yep, delusional. Wink


I agree. I watched the video, it's from the same person who did the "10 Questions Every Intelligent Christian Must Answer"

Those 10 questions were actually pretty easy and did not disprove God.

First of all, he tries to equate Christianity with fairy tales by using the word "magical". There was no "magical ghost". Jesus was not a "magical child". The magi were not led by a "magical star". Magic had nothing to do with any of it.

One thing I also noticed was that he kept using the word "delusional". Usually, that term is used to describe a phsychological disorder. By demeaning Christians, Mormons, and Muslims, it makes it easier for him to attack the beliefs. The tactic backfires because it makes him sound like someone with a chip on his shoulder rather than using logic and reason.

This person has the right to express himself and say what he wants, no debate there. The problem is he really doesn't understand Christianity. One can know the story without understanding.

As for 8I's question, no I do not believe people of other faiths are delusional simply because they do not believe the same as I do. That would be a form prejudice on my part. I may disagree with their views, but that doesn't mean they are mentally ill.
Nash, the delusion I'm referring to isn't the psychiatric definition, it is the everyday language variety, so no, I'm not saying that you have to be mentally ill to be delusional.

I'll submit to you(and the board) that religious and political mass delusion are clearly the two biggest threats to the planet today.

You should be very aware of it politically.

Here in the USA, how could any rational, reasonable person, unless deluded, look at our debt, deficit and unfunded liabilities, know who is responsible, and then turn and re-elect another stooge from the responsible parties?

Have you really looked into Islam? To Mormonism? Please explain how a person could believe such foolishness and not be deluded.

Regards

PS I noticed you didn't refute anything of the points on the video, not that you have to....
Apparently all it takes to be a christian is to make the claim that you are. Oh, and that you believe in "god". From there it seems, that you begin to be either a "good" christian or a "bad" christian. I've seen plenty of examples of "bad" christians but what criteria denotes a "good" christian?
Religion is a handy excuse for many things that cannot be rationalized with fact. Even though it contradicts itself more often than not.
Each one claims to hold the moral high-ground, even when they are war with each other.
Religious War. Now there's an oxymoron. When religion creates war, the misery and blood and death and destruction are real. The religious beliefs that caused it all remains simply that, a belief.
Oddly enough, many who people believe in UFOs and ghosts are ridiculed but there has yet to be a war over it. They also do not make attempts to construct laws or reshape a nation's government to suit their beliefs.
Believing in ghosts or UFOs or even leprechuans is harmless for the most part but religion? The world would be a better place without it.
quote:
Originally posted by Blaknwite:
Apparently all it takes to be a christian is to make the claim that you are. Oh, and that you believe in "god". From there it seems, that you begin to be either a "good" christian or a "bad" christian. I've seen plenty of examples of "bad" christians but what criteria denotes a "good" christian?
Religion is a handy excuse for many things that cannot be rationalized with fact. Even though it contradicts itself more often than not.
Each one claims to hold the moral high-ground, even when they are at war with each other.
Religious War. Now there's an oxymoron. When religion creates war, the misery and blood and death and destruction are real. The religious beliefs that caused it all remains simply that, a belief.
Oddly enough, many who people believe in UFOs and ghosts are ridiculed but there has yet to be a war over it. They also do not make attempts to construct laws or reshape a nation's government to suit their beliefs.
Believing in ghosts or UFOs or even leprechuans is harmless for the most part but religion? The world would be a better place without it.
quote:
Originally posted by Blaknwite:
quote:
Originally posted by Blaknwite:
Apparently all it takes to be a christian is to make the claim that you are. Oh, and that you believe in "god". From there it seems, that you begin to be either a "good" christian or a "bad" christian. I've seen plenty of examples of "bad" christians but what criteria denotes a "good" christian?
Religion is a handy excuse for many things that cannot be rationalized with fact. Even though it contradicts itself more often than not.
Each one claims to hold the moral high-ground, even when they are at war with each other.
Religious War. Now there's an oxymoron. When religion creates war, the misery and blood and death and destruction are real. The religious beliefs that caused it all remains simply that, a belief.
Oddly enough, many people who believe in UFOs and ghosts are ridiculed but there has yet to be a war over it. They also do not make attempts to construct laws or reshape a nation's government to suit their beliefs.
Believing in ghosts or UFOs or even leprechuans is harmless for the most part but religion? The world would be a better place without it.
Blakn,

Well said, my friend.

Out here in California, 90% + of convicts in maximum security prisons have crosses and virgin Maries tattooed all over themselves.

Atheists comprise about 1/2 of 1% of prisoners.

Of course, the Christians will say that deeds count for nothing and belief counts for all.

Shbt.

If that is the worth of their religion here and now, I say a pox on it all!

Here and now counts for something, god*&mn it! This is likely the only life we will ever experience. We will go, after life, to the same place we were before life. Oblivion. True, it never inconvenienced us, but it was otherwise boring to the point of nonrememberence.

One thing you might already know. In the absence of gods, people tend to accept something else supernatural. It seems to be a tendency in many of us. In cultures that have abandoned god, they have embraced UFOs, Bigfoots (Bigfeet?), leprechauns, etc.

The challenge is to replace superstition with something satisfying. And many people are not satisfied with reality, science, reason, and a really good filet mignon, medium-rare, with grilled onions and a nice Zinfandel.

More's the pity.


DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Here and now counts for something, god*&mn it! This is likely the only life we will ever experience. We will go, after life, to the same place we were before life. Oblivion. True, it never inconvenienced us, but it was otherwise boring to the point of nonrememberence. DF

Hi Deep,

Through our 2 1/2 year dialogue on the Forum, I have given you credit for being an atheist; but, at least one that was a few rungs up the ladder above David, who publicly curses God.

Yet, in this post; you have put yourself in the bottom of the sewer -- standing right beside David.

I will debate with you; I will say you are wrong in your belief -- or lack of belief. But, I will never defame nor curse you, your family, and, if you had a god, I would not curse him or it.

Yet, you, who claim to be Friends with many Christians on the Forum -- see no harm in cursing and taking our God's name is vain -- in a most strenuous manner. You must realize that we place our God very high -- and, although you may not like me -- those Christians on the Forum whom you call Friend -- deserve better.

Deep, this statement was very, very off-base and completely out of line. You owe an apology to EVERY Christian on the Forum -- and elsewhere for this post.

God bless,

Bill
quote:
Deep, this statement was very, very off-base and completely out of line. You owe an apology to EVERY Christian on the Forum -- and elsewhere for this post.


You have outdone yourself, Bill, with that bit of self-righteous blather. If anybody owes an appology it is you. You have insulted the intelligence of every thinking person on this Forum.

Nobody is better at hurling insults than evangelical Christians. As they can never defend their beliefs with evidence, they mindlessly attack those presenting the facts--especially the facts about a mythical God who is cruel, irrational, vindictive and capricious. You tell atheists that they are so horrible that we merit torture for all of eternity.

Here is a perfect example of Christian insults from todays letters to the editor in the TD:

“The difference between believers in God and atheists, is that when atheists lie, cheat, commit adultery and steal, they are living consistently with the standard they believe.”

I am not sure what offends me more about evangelical Christians--their dishonesty or their hypocrisy.
I gotta tell ya, these christians are indeed a curiosity; they love their god but they fear their god. Now, do they love their god because they fear him or do they fear their god because they love him?
If this were explainable, it would explain their feelings toward the poor and less fortunate. Do they hate them because they love them and fear them? No that won't work either because they don't normally go round attacking their god and they give willingly, without complaint or question, to the religion of their choice.
The conflict between theists and atheist could be brought to an immediate end if theists would simply provide atheists with just one bit of the massive evidence they claim to have that God exists. Speaking for myself, I will become an instant believer if provided with evidence. I may not like God if he proves to be the cruel, irrational, vindictive and capricious God of the Bible, but I will believe he exists and will no longer be an atheist--an appelation that brings contempt, fear and suspicion to the psyche of the theist. .
David,

I recently here responded to a video wherein a Christian Apologist PhD offered five proofs of god.

Amateur that I am, and I admit that, I offered what I consider legitimate arguments to each of his proofs.

Damm, if I can even suggest arguments against each "proof", what could a real philosopher do?
Is this all they have?

Let's discount the alleged benefits religion has on the world. It's arguable that the damage it causes is commensurate, but we need not discuss that now.

The "benefits" of religion are one thing. They are highly debatable. But the truthfulness of religion is another thing altogether.

I hardly need mention the question of which religion is the true religion. Those who would defend a particular religion should consider this problem well, however.

A better question is: By what criteria do we judge a religion true? Factually? Honestly? Accurately?

Be very careful how you answer. You know how I am. I will doubt and parse your answers, and you'd better be ready. Faith does not count. You must convince a skeptic.

Or admit your faith is irrational.

(edit) It occurred to me that I started this message out to David and finished it to someone else.

Please forgive my editing faults).



DF
Are metaphysics any more worthy of argument than pizza topics, except as moot exercises in personal opinion and typing/oratory exercises?

I don't believe so, until someone tells me I must "believe" something, and I am wary the veracity of "belief" induced by command, hereditary superstition and/or custom, or fear.

Then it becomes interesting.
I'm not sure how I could not be offended by this thread. Of course, that's the case with most threads in the Religion Forum. With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

Taking that break from the forums has certainly been enlightening. I think perhaps I had heard the insults and inaccuracies so often that I became desensitized to them.

Please do not defend your actions by holding Bill's words up as if it justifies anything you say on here. There are plenty of Christians who treat you with common decency & respect; they treat everyone that way. Belief or lack thereof doesn't change that.

Your insults target people other than Bill, people who have never insulted you and from whom you have nothing to fear. Go ahead. Pat each other on the back & feel good about that.

Dawkins, that Atheist Code of Ethics from your thread --> http://forums.timesdaily.com/e...022675/m/1161098/p/1 ...sorry, I don't that nice and polite thing will last more than a second around here, but good try.

JMHO
quote:
Originally posted by Blaknwite:
Hmmm. A religiously offended christian. This could lead to war.


Occasionally Christ did speak the truth: "I come not to send peace but a sword," Matthew 10: 34.

Holy Inquisition (Christian vs. Jews, Muslims and heretics, Spain, 15th to 19th centuries, also spreading to other countries)

Albigensian Crusade (13th century, orthodox Christians killing heretics)

Thirty Years War (Christians, Catholics vs. Protestants, Germany, 1618 to 1648)

Catholics vs. Protestants, Northern Ireland, 1969 to present day

St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572: Lyon, France: Catholics killing Protestants)

Salem Witch Trials (1692, Christians vs. the imperfectly orthodox)

"The Religious Wars" of 16th century France (Catholics vs. Protestants)
Bosnian Civil War (1990s, Orthodox Christians vs. Muslims and Roman Catholics)

Siege and Massacre at Jerusalem (1099, Christians, killing Jews and Muslims)

Russian Pogroms (Christians killing Jews, Medieval times to 20th century)

Sudanese Civil War (1983 to present, Muslims vs. Christians and Animist rebels)

Teutonic Knights and their Crusades (13th through 15th centuries, Christians vs. Pagans and other Christians)
 
Hussite Wars (Roman Catholics vs. Hussites, Central Europe--Bohemia/Moravia, 15th century)
.
Iconoclastic Controversy (Byzantium, 726 to 9th century, Christians against Christians)

Ivory Coast (present day, Christians vs. Muslims)

The Crusades (Christian vs. Muslim)

Sack of Constantinople, 1204 (Roman Catholics killing Orthodox Christians)
Chatila (1982, Christians or Jews killing Muslims)

Forced Conversions of Saxons (772-804, Charlemagne, Christians vs. Pagans)
Going to post any that don't deal with Christianity?

Islam
* 2.1 Second Sudanese Civil War

Hinduism
* 3.1 Indo-Pakistani Partition of 1947
* 3.2 Indian Rebellion of 1857

Taoism/Daoism
* 4.1 Yellow Scarves Rebellion
* 4.2 Five Pecks of Rice Rebellion

Buddhism
* 5.1 White Lotus Rebellion
* 5.2 Sri Lankan Civil War

Judaism
* 6.1 Jewish-Roman Wars
* 6.2 Arab-Israeli War

Sikhism
* 7.1 Sikh uprising (1982-91)

Saxon Wars
Zoroastrianism

A logical answer I found.

quote:
As an atheist I feel qualified to answer this question. While it is true that many, if not most wars in the past were fought for "religious" reasons. The fact is that most were fought for economic reasons with religion thrown in simply to motivate the masses.

The same can be said of the wars and genocide perpetrated by non or anti religious leaders. Consider Stalin and Pol Pot. Millions died at their direction. Not to mention the Cultural Revolution in China where millions more died.

No, as an atheist, I can't claim moral superiority over religious groups and people. Wish that I could.

The reasons for war are pretty much economic. On a base level it's as simple as "I want what they have" . On a national level it could be a need for resources. Japan went to war for oil and rubber. Germany went war for territory and labor. That is simplistic, I know, but fairly true.

Sad to say, religion has a very small part in the promotion of wars. It's all about human desire, need, and pride.


http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...0080314081133AAEzlYf
quote:
Going to post any that don't deal with Christianity?


No, I will let you do that. Thanks for proving my point that ALL religion is a plague upon humanity.

"As an atheist I feel qualified to answer this question."
Based on his comments, he is not qualified to comment on the time of day.

As an atheist I feel qualified to state, "The moon is made of green cheese." I just may be wrong.
Who is this "atheist." Sounds like a dishonest Christian to me.
You have proved that you hate all humanity.

You disagree with someone who has your same opinion of God yet because he does not hate the world, he must be an idiot.

You are in a class by yourself.

You are the one suffering from delusion. You have created your own imperfect world and now find no one is 'good' enough to live in it but you.
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
You have proved that you hate all humanity.

You disagree with someone who has your same opinion of God yet because he does not hate the world, he must be an idiot.

You are in a class by yourself.

You are the one suffering from delusion. You have created your own imperfect world and now find no one is 'good' enough to live in it but you.


SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE CHRISTIAN.
What would you ever do if you couldn't use the the most favored of all evangelical words, "HATE."
L,

Did the kid who said the Emporer has no clothes say it out of hatred?

Did the man who shouted "Soylent Green is people! It's people!" say it out of hatred?

Blunt as he can be (said from a blunt man himself), David is speaking truth to fiction. He's sticking his neck out. He's exposing himself to reaction and possibly retribution.

Why do you think he does this? Hatred for mankind?

Let me suggest he loves us. He wants us to be wise and informed. He wants us to be free of superstition and the fear of ghosts and spooks. Perhaps, just maybe, he wants us to progress into the adulthood of our species with our eyes open, and our minds cleansed of the nonsense we depended upon in our childish ignorance.


DF
Blunt? Try paranoid for starters, then rude and arrogant, as if he or you or anyone else that posts here can say with absolute certainly that there is nothing past what we can physically see or what little we can prove in a science lab.

Rude and arrogant will never equal love.

Sorry, I'd hang around longer, but you know us Christians...so many people to destroy, so little time. Roll Eyes
quote:
Your one man crusade against all injustice gives you some silly purpose to your life.


Wouldn't it be just a horrible world if everone had such a "silly purpose?" What would we do without injustice?

If Christians would drop their all-consuming obsession with "sin" and biblical silliness and spend a little more time concerned with injustice, the world would surely be a better place.

Deep and Dawk, Thanks for the moral support.

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