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He that came by water and blood - The miraculous deluge.

 

Sunday of Divine Mercy

But after they were come to Jesus, when they saw that he was already

dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers with a spear opened

his side: and immediately there came out blood and water. (John 19:33-34)

This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only

but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the

truth. (1 John 5:6)

 

The image of the Divine Mercy recalls the blood and water which gushed

forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us. It was after his death,

as his lifeless and inanimate body hung upon the Cross, that his holy side

and Sacred Heart were opened by a lance, which released upon the earth

the flood of God’s mercy.

 

Hypovolemic shock and pericardial effusion
 
There is some biblical evidence to suggest that our Savior had entered into
hypovolemic shock after his scourging. Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body. This extreme
blood-loss may well have set him into a state of hypovolemic shock which
would be occasioned by low blood pressure.
 
Those in this state of shock will experience dizziness and fainting
(and our Lord fell several times as he carried his Cross) as well as
extreme thirst and a desire to drink liquids to replenish all the lost fluids
(and Jesus said I thirst).
 
What is particularly pertinent to our discussion is that hypovolemic shock
causes a rapid heart-rate which in turn causes a great deal of fluid to
gather in the sack around the heart and the lungs. Thus, some suggest
that the “blood and water” which came forth could have been this
pericardial effusion of fluid.
 
If such were the case, the blood and water would be mixed together,
flowing out as one. Further, the event would not be a miracle, but
would be a medically and scientifically explainable phenomenon –
something natural.
 
The miracle
 
However, St. John refers to the blood and water coming forth not merely as
a natural phenomenon which demonstrates our Lord’s bodily death, but even
further (especially in 1 John 5:6), as a proof of our Savior’s divinity.
Pericardial effusion and hypovolemic shock do very little to prove the divinity
 of Jesus, thus the “scientific” and “medical” explanation seems contrary to
the plain sense of the holy and inerrant Scriptures.
 
Furthermore, a pericardial effusion does not pertain to the flowing of blood
and water, but rather to the pouring forth of various fluids which had built
up around the heart. However, St. John does not say that “fluids” poured
forth, but that there came out blood and water.
 
And we are to understand that the blood and water came out separately,
not mingled. For, if they had come forth mingled, then the Beloved would
not be able to say blood and water, but only blood or fluid – just as we
do not say that there is “wine and water” consecrated at the Mass, but
only “wine”, since the water is mingled with the wine.
 
Now, St. John states that there came out blood and water, and this
must needs be miraculous for it was not serum, but rather pure blood
and pure water which came forth so as to be distinguished one from
the other.
It is well worth noting that our Savior himself confirms this interpretation
through his Image of Divine Mercy, in which the blue and the red rays
are clearly distinct.
 
A total gift
It is further worth noting that this miraculous pouring forth of blood and water
was total and complete. Indeed, the tradition is that our Savior gave forth in
this miraculous deluge all the blood and all the water which was in his body.
There is no reason why this could not be accomplished by a miracle.
 
Further, this total gift of blood and water symbolized the total gift of himself,
and also the abundance and infinite depths of divine mercy.
 
The water, the blood, and the Spirit
In his first Epistle, St. John states that the three – the water, the blood, and
 the Spirit – give testimony. The Fathers and Doctors recognize a spiritual
meaning to these three.
First, the literal sense. The “water” and “blood” refer, of course, to the blood
and water which poured forth from his sacred side. The “spirit” may refer to
the Holy Spirit, but perhaps more likely refers to the Savior’s breath/spirit
which he gave up on the Cross.
 
Just as it was by a miracle that all the blood and water of our Lord’s body
immediately gushed forth with great force and yet remained unmingled
and most pure, so too it was by a miraculous last breath that our Savior
cried out in a loud voice as he gave forth his spirit. For, indeed, those
who are dying (especially those dying upon the Cross, which is a
quasi-suffocation) are not naturally able to cry out in such a loud voice.
 
The spiritual sense follows. The water symbolizes baptism. The blood,
the Eucharist. And the spirit, the sacrament of Penance – for it was this
spirit which Jesus breathed upon his disciples after his resurrection
when he gave them the power to absolve sin.
 
Oh Blood and Water which gushed forth from
 the Heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us,
I trust in you!
 
 
 
 
 
Original Post

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Hi Vic,

 

Even though not a single word of that post was written by you; you must have had a reason for posting it.   So, my Friend, what point are you trying to make with this post?  Just curious.

 

I know that before you had stated that sometimes you will begin a discussion "just to start an argument."   So, is that you intent here?  Or, do you have some other reason?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Point of View

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Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

He that came by water and blood - The miraculous deluge.

 

Sunday of Divine Mercy

But after they were come to Jesus, when they saw that he was already

dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers with a spear opened

his side: and immediately there came out blood and water. (John 19:33-34)

This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only

but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the

truth. (1 John 5:6)

 

The image of the Divine Mercy recalls the blood and water which gushed

forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us. It was after his death,

as his lifeless and inanimate body hung upon the Cross, that his holy side

and Sacred Heart were opened by a lance, which released upon the earth

the flood of God’s mercy.

 

Hypovolemic shock and pericardial effusion
 
There is some biblical evidence to suggest that our Savior had entered into
hypovolemic shock after his scourging. Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body. This extreme
blood-loss may well have set him into a state of hypovolemic shock which
would be occasioned by low blood pressure.
 
Those in this state of shock will experience dizziness and fainting
(and our Lord fell several times as he carried his Cross) as well as
extreme thirst and a desire to drink liquids to replenish all the lost fluids
(and Jesus said I thirst).
 
What is particularly pertinent to our discussion is that hypovolemic shock
causes a rapid heart-rate which in turn causes a great deal of fluid to
gather in the sack around the heart and the lungs. Thus, some suggest
that the “blood and water” which came forth could have been this
pericardial effusion of fluid.
 
If such were the case, the blood and water would be mixed together,
flowing out as one. Further, the event would not be a miracle, but
would be a medically and scientifically explainable phenomenon –
something natural.
 
The miracle
 
However, St. John refers to the blood and water coming forth not merely as
a natural phenomenon which demonstrates our Lord’s bodily death, but even
further (especially in 1 John 5:6), as a proof of our Savior’s divinity.
Pericardial effusion and hypovolemic shock do very little to prove the divinity
 of Jesus, thus the “scientific” and “medical” explanation seems contrary to
the plain sense of the holy and inerrant Scriptures.
 
Furthermore, a pericardial effusion does not pertain to the flowing of blood
and water, but rather to the pouring forth of various fluids which had built
up around the heart. However, St. John does not say that “fluids” poured
forth, but that there came out blood and water.
 
And we are to understand that the blood and water came out separately,
not mingled. For, if they had come forth mingled, then the Beloved would
not be able to say blood and water, but only blood or fluid – just as we
do not say that there is “wine and water” consecrated at the Mass, but
only “wine”, since the water is mingled with the wine.
 
Now, St. John states that there came out blood and water, and this
must needs be miraculous for it was not serum, but rather pure blood
and pure water which came forth so as to be distinguished one from
the other.
It is well worth noting that our Savior himself confirms this interpretation
through his Image of Divine Mercy, in which the blue and the red rays
are clearly distinct.
 
A total gift
It is further worth noting that this miraculous pouring forth of blood and water
was total and complete. Indeed, the tradition is that our Savior gave forth in
this miraculous deluge all the blood and all the water which was in his body.
There is no reason why this could not be accomplished by a miracle.
 
Further, this total gift of blood and water symbolized the total gift of himself,
and also the abundance and infinite depths of divine mercy.
 
The water, the blood, and the Spirit
In his first Epistle, St. John states that the three – the water, the blood, and
 the Spirit – give testimony. The Fathers and Doctors recognize a spiritual
meaning to these three.
First, the literal sense. The “water” and “blood” refer, of course, to the blood
and water which poured forth from his sacred side. The “spirit” may refer to
the Holy Spirit, but perhaps more likely refers to the Savior’s breath/spirit
which he gave up on the Cross.
 
Just as it was by a miracle that all the blood and water of our Lord’s body
immediately gushed forth with great force and yet remained unmingled
and most pure, so too it was by a miraculous last breath that our Savior
cried out in a loud voice as he gave forth his spirit. For, indeed, those
who are dying (especially those dying upon the Cross, which is a
quasi-suffocation) are not naturally able to cry out in such a loud voice.
 
The spiritual sense follows. The water symbolizes baptism. The blood,
the Eucharist. And the spirit, the sacrament of Penance – for it was this
spirit which Jesus breathed upon his disciples after his resurrection
when he gave them the power to absolve sin.
 
Oh Blood and Water which gushed forth from
 the Heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us,
I trust in you!
 
 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Vic,

 

Even though not a single word of that post was written by you; you must have had a reason for posting it.   So, my Friend, what point are you trying to make with this post?  Just curious.

 

I know that before you had stated that sometimes you will begin a discussion "just to start an argument."   So, is that you intent here?  Or, do you have some other reason?

 

Bill

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 Why would I write a word of it when it's already written? It wasn't written
for people like you anyway. Your limited comprehension would never
grasp the true ways of God, so take my advice and stay on the porch.
 
I never wanted to start an argument and you shouldn't worry so much
about my posts or reasons. I do like the way you bite on every word i say.
 

 

quote:   Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:   Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Vic,  Even though not a single word of that post was written by you; you must have had a reason for posting it.   So, my Friend, what point are you trying to make with this post?  Just curious.

 

I know that before you had stated that sometimes you will begin a discussion "just to start an argument."   So, is that you intent here?  Or, do you have some other reason?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,   Bill

 
Why would I write a word of it when it's already written?  It wasn't written for people like you anyway. Your limited comprehension would never grasp the true ways of God, so take my advice and stay on the porch.  I never wanted to start an argument and you shouldn't worry so much about my posts or reasons.  I do like the way you bite on every word i say. 

Hi Vic,

 

Oh, I don't know.   Maybe for the intellectual stimulation of doing something without the Vatican holding you hand and telling you when to pee! 

 

You really should try it.  When you get to where you can write two coherent sentences, if ever -- you may feel a sense of accomplishment which 100% copy/paste cannot give you.  Sort of like holding hands with a woman, versus looking at pictures in a magazine.

 

Just a thought!   Bless your heart!

 

Bill

 

You-Are-Grownup

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Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

He that came by water and blood - The miraculous deluge.

 

Sunday of Divine Mercy

But after they were come to Jesus, when they saw that he was already

dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers with a spear opened

his side: and immediately there came out blood and water. (John 19:33-34)

This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only

but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the

truth. (1 John 5:6)

 

The image of the Divine Mercy recalls the blood and water which gushed

forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us. It was after his death,

as his lifeless and inanimate body hung upon the Cross, that his holy side

and Sacred Heart were opened by a lance, which released upon the earth

the flood of God’s mercy.

 

Hypovolemic shock and pericardial effusion
 
There is some biblical evidence to suggest that our Savior had entered into
hypovolemic shock after his scourging. Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body. This extreme
blood-loss may well have set him into a state of hypovolemic shock which
would be occasioned by low blood pressure.
 
Those in this state of shock will experience dizziness and fainting
(and our Lord fell several times as he carried his Cross) as well as
extreme thirst and a desire to drink liquids to replenish all the lost fluids
(and Jesus said I thirst).
 
What is particularly pertinent to our discussion is that hypovolemic shock
causes a rapid heart-rate which in turn causes a great deal of fluid to
gather in the sack around the heart and the lungs. Thus, some suggest
that the “blood and water” which came forth could have been this
pericardial effusion of fluid.
 
If such were the case, the blood and water would be mixed together,
flowing out as one. Further, the event would not be a miracle, but
would be a medically and scientifically explainable phenomenon –
something natural.
 
The miracle
 
However, St. John refers to the blood and water coming forth not merely as
a natural phenomenon which demonstrates our Lord’s bodily death, but even
further (especially in 1 John 5:6), as a proof of our Savior’s divinity.
Pericardial effusion and hypovolemic shock do very little to prove the divinity
 of Jesus, thus the “scientific” and “medical” explanation seems contrary to
the plain sense of the holy and inerrant Scriptures.
 
Furthermore, a pericardial effusion does not pertain to the flowing of blood
and water, but rather to the pouring forth of various fluids which had built
up around the heart. However, St. John does not say that “fluids” poured
forth, but that there came out blood and water.
 
And we are to understand that the blood and water came out separately,
not mingled. For, if they had come forth mingled, then the Beloved would
not be able to say blood and water, but only blood or fluid – just as we
do not say that there is “wine and water” consecrated at the Mass, but
only “wine”, since the water is mingled with the wine.
 
Now, St. John states that there came out blood and water, and this
must needs be miraculous for it was not serum, but rather pure blood
and pure water which came forth so as to be distinguished one from
the other.
It is well worth noting that our Savior himself confirms this interpretation
through his Image of Divine Mercy, in which the blue and the red rays
are clearly distinct.
 
A total gift
It is further worth noting that this miraculous pouring forth of blood and water
was total and complete. Indeed, the tradition is that our Savior gave forth in
this miraculous deluge all the blood and all the water which was in his body.
There is no reason why this could not be accomplished by a miracle.
 
Further, this total gift of blood and water symbolized the total gift of himself,
and also the abundance and infinite depths of divine mercy.
 
The water, the blood, and the Spirit
In his first Epistle, St. John states that the three – the water, the blood, and
 the Spirit – give testimony. The Fathers and Doctors recognize a spiritual
meaning to these three.
First, the literal sense. The “water” and “blood” refer, of course, to the blood
and water which poured forth from his sacred side. The “spirit” may refer to
the Holy Spirit, but perhaps more likely refers to the Savior’s breath/spirit
which he gave up on the Cross.
 
Just as it was by a miracle that all the blood and water of our Lord’s body
immediately gushed forth with great force and yet remained unmingled
and most pure, so too it was by a miraculous last breath that our Savior
cried out in a loud voice as he gave forth his spirit. For, indeed, those
who are dying (especially those dying upon the Cross, which is a
quasi-suffocation) are not naturally able to cry out in such a loud voice.
 
The spiritual sense follows. The water symbolizes baptism. The blood,
the Eucharist. And the spirit, the sacrament of Penance – for it was this
spirit which Jesus breathed upon his disciples after his resurrection
when he gave them the power to absolve sin.
 
Oh Blood and Water which gushed forth from
 the Heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us,
I trust in you!
 
 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Vic,

 

Even though not a single word of that post was written by you; you must have had a reason for posting it.   So, my Friend, what point are you trying to make with this post?  Just curious.

 

I know that before you had stated that sometimes you will begin a discussion "just to start an argument."   So, is that you intent here?  Or, do you have some other reason?

 

Bill

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 Why would I write a word of it when it's already written? It wasn't written
for people like you anyway. Your limited comprehension would never
grasp the true ways of God, so take my advice and stay on the porch.
 
I never wanted to start an argument and you shouldn't worry so much
about my posts or reasons. I do like the way you bite on every word i say.
Tthe message delivered in truth is more important than the messenger.
 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:   Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Vic,  Even though not a single word of that post was written by you; you must have had a reason for posting it.   So, my Friend, what point are you trying to make with this post?  Just curious.

 

I know that before you had stated that sometimes you will begin a discussion "just to start an argument."   So, is that you intent here?  Or, do you have some other reason?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,   Bill

 
Why would I write a word of it when it's already written?  It wasn't written for people like you anyway. Your limited comprehension would never grasp the true ways of God, so take my advice and stay on the porch.  I never wanted to start an argument and you shouldn't worry so much about my posts or reasons.  I do like the way you bite on every word i say. 

Hi Vic,

 

Oh, I don't know.   Maybe for the intellectual stimulation of doing something without the Vatican holding you hand and telling you when to pee! 

 

You really should try it.  When you get to where you can write two coherent sentences, if ever -- you may feel a sense of accomplishment which 100% copy/paste cannot give you.  Sort of like holding hands with a woman, versus looking at pictures in a magazine.

 

Just a thought!   Bless your heart!

 

Bill

 

You-Are-Grownup

========================

Gray....you're a bitter old man

Hi Canade,

 

That is true.  Also, as he has written before -- maybe he just wants to start an argument.  My point is that his posts are 100% copy/paste.  There is no problem with anyone using copy/paste from a source to support what he/she has already written.  

 

But, with Vic -- his posts contain nothing from Vic.  How can anyone know what Vic really believes -- when ALL we see in his posts is what someone else has written.  My question is:  Is Vic such a slave to the Vatican that he is not allowed to even have a single thought which is his own?   Think about that.   That is mind control at its worst.

 

I believe God and His Bible.  But, I study, interpret, and comment on the Bible from my own God-given intelligence; not what someone has told me to believe.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

INVICTUS, perhaps relying on some kind of bogus Catholic mythology, posted this above:

 

"Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body."
 
Yes, Jesus was scourged, but there is nothing in the scriptures that describes it as this extreme.
Where do you find this stuff, INVICTUS? 
Originally Posted by Contendah:

INVICTUS, perhaps relying on some kind of bogus Catholic mythology, posted this above:

 

"Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body."
 
Yes, Jesus was scourged, but there is nothing in the scriptures that describes it as this extreme.
Where do you find this stuff, INVICTUS? 

======================

HAHAHAHAHHA....let me beat you with a whip and we'll see how extreme it is!

Please????

Originally Posted by smokey1:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

INVICTUS, perhaps relying on some kind of bogus Catholic mythology, posted this above:

 

"Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body."
 
Yes, Jesus was scourged, but there is nothing in the scriptures that describes it as this extreme.
Where do you find this stuff, INVICTUS? 

======================

HAHAHAHAHHA....let me beat you with a whip and we'll see how extreme it is!

Please????

___

If you had sense enough to do some research on the matter, you would find that there was quite a range of severity associated with scourging. Some scourging actually resulted in death.  But the scriptures simply say that Jesus was scourged, without any details as to the severity of it.  Thus, when INVICTUS provides the numerous and gruesome details he offered here, it can be no more than speculation. So keep your whip for yourself and whatever sadomasochistic activities you are accustomed to using it for.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:   Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

<snipped for brevity>

 

Hi Vic,

 

Oh, I don't know.   Maybe for the intellectual stimulation of doing something without the Vatican holding you hand and telling you when to pee! 

 

You really should try it.  When you get to where you can write two coherent sentences, if ever -- you may feel a sense of accomplishment which 100% copy/paste cannot give you.  Sort of like holding hands with a woman, versus looking at pictures in a magazine.

 

Just a thought!   Bless your heart!

 

Bill

 -------------------------------

Hey Billy!

Perhaps that's what all that blood and gore is all over your keyboard. Maybe it was scourged? And all the while I thought it was all that bigotry and hatred dripping out of your heart... My bad...

 

Just a thought... 

The religion forum should be open to everyone. If they want to copy/paste then fine, that's just one way of sharing. I think its rude to criticize someone for copy/paste. It's their privilege to do so. Their aren't any rules against copy/paste. I liked the post, very interesting. This is a forum, not a college class on "how to write an op-ed". No offense Mr. Gray, but let it go. You never answered my question on another thread and I had to let that go. In the words of my good friend veep, Cheers !
And once again, as per your request Mr Gray, here is another example of you being hateful. Certainly not setting a Christ- like example- Your little line about peeing without being told to do so by the Vatican? Rude, rude rude. Are you starting to understand how hateful you come across or shall I continue to cite exampleS?
Originally Posted by vplee123:
And once again, as per your request Mr Gray, here is another example of you being hateful. Certainly not setting a Christ- like example- Your little line about peeing without being told to do so by the Vatican? Rude, rude rude. Are you starting to understand how hateful you come across or shall I continue to cite exampleS?

-----------------------------

And I'll add to Veep's "rude, rude, rude," - crude, crude, crude! Bad Billy bad!

 

Just a thought...

 

Dove

--------------------------

quote:  Originally Posted by vplee123:
And once again, as per your request Mr Gray, here is another example of you being hateful. Certainly not setting a Christ- like example- Your little line about peeing without being told to do so by the Vatican? Rude, rude rude. Are you starting to understand how hateful you come across or shall I continue to cite exampleS?

Hi VP,

 

If I wrote, "Good morning!" -- that would be crude and rude to you.   Face it, since I refute most Roman Catholic doctrines and teaching, anything I write will fall into your rude and crude category. 

 

So be it.  Bless your little old biased heart!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Gimme A Hug

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Invictus has used copy and paste in this instance, however, he has also made posts giving his own thoughts & opinions in other posts and topics. Bill, you also use cut & paste frequently.  Just because you choose to insert your opinions and thoughts with the cut & paste does not mean everyone has to do the same. 

 

 

.

This copy/paste thing is just what billie the troll has done many times before

when he wants to divert attention from the topic. He thinks he's refuing the

post this way. He isn't refuting anything, I've yet to see him disprove anything.

But when people respond to his smoke screen he sees that as a win for his

insecure ignorance. I realized long ago billie will say anything draw attention

away from posts he fears. billie should be ignored when all he wants is to

disrupt and take control of what the others read and what they might think

about discussions other than his own. He is a "look at me, look at me". 

 

Originally Posted by vplee123:
Comtendah, are you saying that Jesus wasn't brutally scourged? Confused..

___

By no means.  All scourging was brutal. What I am saying is that the Biblical account of the scourging of Jesus provides no details other than the fact that He was scourged.  I researched the subject of scourging before I posted my above comment and what I found, consistently, was that scourging was indeed always a brutal matter but that there was considerable variation in the intensity of scourging.  The Romans permitted considerable discretion to those who administered the scourging and in some cases, the victim was scourged literally to death.  In other cases, the scourging stopped well short of that.  Some descriptions suggested that scourging, in its most intensive form, could be as horrible a form of torture and death as crucifixion.  I am not diminishing the horror or brutality of scourging.  I was simply challenging the legitimacy of INVICTUS' description, which provided details that are NOT in scripture.

Bill, It's okay to question and debate other religions. I've lived in the south all of my life, I've heard it all when comes to debating catholic doctrine. The issue some people may have with you, is that your post are mingled with crass and unrefined comments. You absolutely can not be an effect evangelist and use crass, unrefined humor. You are not doing the work of the Lord when you use such references. The Holy Spirit does not reside in a man with a crude mouth. So, please know, I'm not offended that you disagree with the Roman Catholic Church. However, I respect a man who is chivalrous. You, sir, are no such man.
Originally Posted by House of David:
Bill, It's okay to question and debate other religions. I've lived in the south all of my life, I've heard it all when comes to debating catholic doctrine. The issue some people may have with you, is that your post are mingled with crass and unrefined comments. You absolutely can not be an effect evangelist and use crass, unrefined humor. You are not doing the work of the Lord when you use such references. The Holy Spirit does not reside in a man with a crude mouth. So, please know, I'm not offended that you disagree with the Roman Catholic Church. However, I respect a man who is chivalrous. You, sir, are no such man.

-------------------------------

Billy boy,

You have just been very eloquently outed  as a crude wannabe bully.... Now go crawl back under that bridge and beg God's forgiveness...

Bill Gray's very frequent use of the term "Bless Your Heart" likely reflects his southern roots. Here is some information on what that expression really means when used in contexts where its literal meaning is not intended.  I find it very improbable that Bill really means to confer any kind of actual blessing when he employs this terminology.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com...erm=bless+your+heart

 

 
 
 
 
1. This is a term used by the people of the southern United States particularly near the Gulf of Mexico to express to someone that they are an idiot without saying such harsh words. 

2. "You are an idiot but I like you and care about you so I dont want to hurt your feelings."
Little Billy: I am 6 years old (only holds up 4 fingers) 
Scarlet: Oh honey, bless your heart, but that's only 4 fingers. 
Little Billy tries again: I am 6 years old (this time holds up the same 4 fingers and 4 more on the other hand) 
Scarlet: Child....Bless you and your momma's heart.

 

 

  
 
 
 
An old or southern woman's excuse to insult people without being rude.
Old lady-That little girl has a face only a mother could love. Bless her little heart. 

Southern woman-Your mother is a ***** who sleeps around. Bless your heart.
 
 
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi David,

 

You tell me, "You absolutely can not be an effect evangelist and use crass, unrefined humor."

 

I would truly love to see an example of what you consider "crass, unrefined humor." 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

------------------------

You need a dictionary, Billy boy...?

 Oh Billy, They have you snared in your own words!

 

What to do?

 

Activate escape plan!

Start a new, more deceptive thread....

Pretend you're a gentleman (I'll tutor you if you promise to behave)...

Yell! It's a cabal! It's a cabal!

Pretend a parishioner needs you and disappear for a few hours...

Blame it on the Democrats....

Blame it on the unions...

Blame it on the socialists...

Blame it on the liberals... Even the Christian liberals...

Blame it on the Catholics...

Oh heck, you can't escape...

Just a thought... 

 

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by smokey1:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

INVICTUS, perhaps relying on some kind of bogus Catholic mythology, posted this above:

 

"Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body."
 
Yes, Jesus was scourged, but there is nothing in the scriptures that describes it as this extreme.
Where do you find this stuff, INVICTUS? 

======================

HAHAHAHAHHA....let me beat you with a whip and we'll see how extreme it is!

Please????

___

If you had sense enough to do some research on the matter, you would find that there was quite a range of severity associated with scourging. Some scourging actually resulted in death.  But the scriptures simply say that Jesus was scourged, without any details as to the severity of it.  Thus, when INVICTUS provides the numerous and gruesome details he offered here, it can be no more than speculation. So keep your whip for yourself and whatever sadomasochistic activities you are accustomed to using it for.

========================

That reminds me, I left my whip at your house and you're out of beer.....

quote:   Originally Posted by House of David:
Bill, Veep already pointed out your comment about "peeing without getting permission from the Vatican"

Well, David,

 

Did he have permission or not?   If a priest at Our Lady of The Valley Roman Catholic church in Canoga Park, California, could tell me, in the mid-1960s, that the validity of my previous baptism depended upon which way the water rolled off my head -- how is permission to pee any different?

 

And, yes, that did happen when my girl friend, a Roman Catholic, and I went to him for counseling.   By the way, that is the same church where I went to pray the day John Kennedy was shot.  And, it is the same church where Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz were married.  So, that church has been around for a long time.

 

I liked our Lady of The Valley because, at that time, all the priests were Irish -- and I loved hearing them talk.  Would you believe that I have since found that I, too, have Irish blood.  Must have been my Irish blood responding to them.

 

But, although VP wants to deny that a Roman Catholic priest would say such a thing -- he did.  Yes, that is absolutely a true story.

 

So, did he have permission to pee?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by smokey1:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by smokey1:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

INVICTUS, perhaps relying on some kind of bogus Catholic mythology, posted this above:

 

"Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body."
 
Yes, Jesus was scourged, but there is nothing in the scriptures that describes it as this extreme.
Where do you find this stuff, INVICTUS? 

======================

HAHAHAHAHHA....let me beat you with a whip and we'll see how extreme it is!

Please????

___

If you had sense enough to do some research on the matter, you would find that there was quite a range of severity associated with scourging. Some scourging actually resulted in death.  But the scriptures simply say that Jesus was scourged, without any details as to the severity of it.  Thus, when INVICTUS provides the numerous and gruesome details he offered here, it can be no more than speculation. So keep your whip for yourself and whatever sadomasochistic activities you are accustomed to using it for.

========================

That reminds me, I left my whip at your house and you're out of beer.....

___

Better to be out of beer than to be, like YOU, out of brain power.

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by smokey1:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by smokey1:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

INVICTUS, perhaps relying on some kind of bogus Catholic mythology, posted this above:

 

"Due to the great brutality of the
scourging, in which the sacred flesh of our Savior was so torn that his
skeletal muscles, veins, sinews, and even his bowels were exposed,
our Lord had literally begun to run out of blood in his body."
 
Yes, Jesus was scourged, but there is nothing in the scriptures that describes it as this extreme.
Where do you find this stuff, INVICTUS? 

======================

HAHAHAHAHHA....let me beat you with a whip and we'll see how extreme it is!

Please????

___

If you had sense enough to do some research on the matter, you would find that there was quite a range of severity associated with scourging. Some scourging actually resulted in death.  But the scriptures simply say that Jesus was scourged, without any details as to the severity of it.  Thus, when INVICTUS provides the numerous and gruesome details he offered here, it can be no more than speculation. So keep your whip for yourself and whatever sadomasochistic activities you are accustomed to using it for.

========================

That reminds me, I left my whip at your house and you're out of beer.....

___

Better to be out of beer than to be, like YOU, out of brain power.

===================

 

Really? Is that the best you can do?

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