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Hi to my Forum Friends,

Now that Christmas 2011, the season we celebrated the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is almost history -- let's take a look at some of the misconceptions, or misunderstandings, about Christmas which are sometimes seen in Christian fellowships and, very frequently, in the non-believing communities.  You might say that this is a cram session so that we will all be prepared next year when these same questions will invariably be asked again and again.

1.  Was Jesus Christ really born on December 25th?   Most likely not; but, that is irrelevant, for we celebrate the fact that He came to earth as the Incarnate God, in human flesh, so that He could be made like His brethren in all things, that He might be our High Priest in all matters pertaining to God -- that He might make propitiation, atonement, for the sins of all people (Hebrews 2:17).   In other words, Christmas is a celebration of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior -- not the celebration of a specific day of the year.

Consider the orphan found alongside the road.  No one knows the exact day of his/her birth.  So, the adoptive parents assign a day to be celebrated as his/her birthday.  Even though that day is most likely not the real birthday, it is still special to that child -- for, even though the child is loved every day -- that is the day special honor and attention is given to him/her.   The same is true of our Lord and Savior.  We love and honor Him every day -- but, with even greater reverence, more special honor and praise -- on His adopted birthday.

One point in favor of December 25th not being the day of His birth is that the shepherds were in the field tending their flocks:

Luke 2:7-12 (nasb), "And she gave birth to her firstborn son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.   In the same region there were some shepherds staying out in the fields and keeping watch over their flock by night.  And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.  But the angel said to them, 'Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.  This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.' "

In the article found on Wikipedia, titled "Bethlehem" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem ) we find these excerpts:


Biblical scholars believe Bethlehem, located in the "hill country" of Judah, may be the same as the Biblical Ephrath,  [16] which means "fertile," as there is a reference to it in the book of Micah as Bethlehem Ephratah. [17]

Early Christians interpreted a verse in the book of Micah [25] as a prophecy of the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem.  [26]

Bethlehem has a Mediterranean climate, with hot and dry summers and cold wintersWinter temperatures (mid-December to mid-March) can be cold and rainy.  January is the coldest month, with temperatures ranging from 1 to 13 degree Celsius (33–55 °F).

 

Since the area of Bethlehem has very cold winters, it is extremely unlikely that shepherds would be in the fields with their flock of sheep during that season.  Most likely, this blessed event happened in the spring or fall seasons, when the climate is more appropriate for the shepherds to be in the fields with their flocks.

From Got Questions Ministrieshttp://www.gotquestions.org/December-25.html


Question:  "Was Jesus born on December 25?"

Answer:  The truth is we simply don’t know the exact date of our Savior’s birth.  In fact, we don’t even know for sure the year in which He was born.  Scholars believe it was somewhere between 6 B.C. and 4 B.C.  One thing is clear: if God felt it was important for us to know the exact date of the Savior’s birth, He certainly would have told us in His Word.  The gospel of Luke gives very specific details about the event, even down to what the baby was wearing –  “swaddling clothes” -- and where he slept -- “in a manger” (Luke 2:12).  These details are important because they speak of His nature and character, meek and lowly.  But the exact date of His birth has no significance whatsoever, which may be why God chose not to mention it.


2.  Another misconception is about the Three Kings, or Magi.  Were there three, or more -- where did they come from -- and why?

The only mention of the magi is in Matthew 1:1-12 and verses 1 and 2 tell us, "Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, 'Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?  For  we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.' "

So, who were the wise men, or magi, and were there only three?  The Bible does not tell us.  There could have been more -- or there could have been only two.   Magi were priest from an Eastern country.  Now, considering that they were carrying at least three gifts, and possible many more, which were of great value -- it is not likely the magi were traveling alone.  Most likely, they had a traveling entourage or caravan to safely transport these expensive gifts.  So, most likely this was a fairly large caravan of travelers.

Traditions speaks of Three Wise Men, or Magi -- because there were three precious gifts given to the Christ child that speak of His nature and glory: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.  There could have been many more gifts; but, these carry the special, and prophetic, message of the Christ child.

When the Bible is silent, we should be silent -- or, at least, make it known that what we are sharing is speculation.  This is true of the magi also.  Three Wise Men make for a good Christmas story, and may be true -- but, it is significant only in retelling the message of His divine birth.

The article, "Wise Men" found at http://www.christiananswers.ne...tionary/wisemen.html tells us:


The first and only mention of magi in the New Testament is in the story of Jesus Christ's young life.  In Matthew 2, it is recorded that they came from the East to Jerusalem looking for “he that is born King of the Jews.”  These were magi, a priestly caste of learned men.  The only known Magian priests East of Palestine (at the time of Christ's birth), were in ancient Media, Persia, Assyria, and Babylonia.  There is no proof of what country these men came from, and there is no consensus among the early Church Fathers.

The word magic is derived from the same root as magi, and magi are generally associated with occult studies, even in our modern world.  However, these magi seem to be different.  There is no indication that they practiced sorcery or claimed magical powers.  Their recorded conduct is sincere and worshipful.  They appear to have researched the Old Testament and believed its prophecies about the Messiah.  They apparently gained nothing material from their long journey.

 

3.  What is the significance of the three gifts given to the Christ child by the magi?  The following excerpts from the article "The Gifts Of The Magi"http://www.originalchristmasgift.com/gpage2.html ) explain them very well.


First of all, the Magi would have given the Christ child many gifts, but the only ones that are mentioned are in the gospel of Matthew (2:11).  Here it is stated the kings offered Jesus gold, frankincense, and myrrh.  All three gifts have a "real" value -- and a "prophetic" one.  The giving of gifts would have been an Oriental custom.  It is important to note that these gifts were the very best that could be given from the East during that period.

As a gift, Gold symbolized virtue.  It signified His kingship on earth to all people, including people outside the Jewish community long before Paul.  What is important to note, is that Jesus was not recognized as a "king" at  that time by any people other than the Magi.

Frankincense was used primarily as incense and perfume, soothing gifts for a new family.  Burning Frankincense also helped keep away pests, also a useful around a newborn.   Religiously then it was one of the elements used in holy anointing (Exd. 30:34), put with other materials during the cereal offering (Lev. 6:15) and was placed in a purified form on the showbread in the tabernacle (Lev 24:7). When the Magi gave the frankincense to Jesus it symbolizes His priestly office.  Frankincense would signify prayer.

Myrrh was another ingredient of the holy anointing oil (Ex. 30:23-33).  Its superior preservative properties allowed myrrh to be used along with aloes and other scents/spices to anoint the dead.  It would have been symbolic of the embalming that Jesus would undergo after his death on the cross.   Myrrh would signify suffering.

No one knows what became of the gifts of the Magi.  But what is often overlooked, is the fact that the Magi presented these gifts and fell prostrate in front of the Christ child.  Their arduous trip, their divinely inspired gifts, and HUMILITY, must not be forgotten.  Their desire to see Jesus and worship him is a model for all Christians.  We all must give God the very best we have to offer no matter how long and difficult the journey.

 

So, in this we celebrate the story, the Gospel, of our King of kings, Jesus Christ, who came to earth as the Incarnate God -- fully God, fully Man.  He was born of a virgin (Luke 1:26-38, 2:1-20) -- was crucified on the cross to pay our sin debt to God and was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea (Matthew 27:27-61, Mark 15:16-47, Luke 23:26-56, John 19:17-42) -- and was resurrected from the grave to assure our resurrection into eternal life (Matthew 28:1-10, Mark 16:1-8, Luke 24:1-1, John 20:1-10).

Within the forty days following His resurrection, He appeared to over 500 believers (1 Corinthians 15:6-8) and, on the fortieth day, He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:6-11) and He is seated at the right hand of God the Father (Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 1:3) -- where He is continually interceding for all believers before God the Father (Romans 8:34, Hebrews 7:25, 9:24).

He will return in the air, the clouds, at a time no one can know (Matthew 24:36), to "snatch up" or "catch up" (rapture) His church, his body of believers, from earth (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) and keep us from the hour of testing, from the wrath of the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9, Revelation 3:10).

Then, we will return with Him, His Second Coming, as He returns to earth in power and glory to establish His kingdom on earth for 1000 years, His Millennial Reign from the throne of David in Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, 11:1-9).  After the 1000 years -- all believers will go into eternity with Him, where we will live forever in the presence of God.

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, this is the Blessed Hope that is in all Christian believers (1 Peter 3:15).

And, this is why, as we enter into the New Year of 2012 -- we want to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Word of God, with all the unbelieving world -- because we want all people to walk eternally with us in the presence of God.  We do not want to see anyone spend eternity out of His glorious presence.  This is why, in the Year 2012, we will share our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, with all  the world.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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BRO. BILL, IS SO RIGHT...LET'S TAKE THIS TO ANOTHER STEP, WHY DON'T WE CHANGE EASTER AND THE JEWISH PASSOVER TO A NEW DATE????? AND ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE AND EVEN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IT WAS FORBIDDEN TO DO LABOR ON THE SABBATH, IT WAS ALSO ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. THE SABBATH TO THIS DAY BEGINS ON FRIDAY...GO READ YOUR BIBLE AND FIND OUT WHEN JESUS WAS PUT TO DEATH, THE JEWISH PEOPLE HAD TO DO IT BEFORE THE SABBATH STARTED.....AND EVEN NOW THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING IN THE YEAR 2012 THE END WILL COME.....NO ONE KNOWS THAT NOT NOW, BUT  WE ARE WARNED OF THE EVENTS THAT MIGHT HAPPEN BEFORE IT DOES...

 

Now that Christmas 2011, the season we celebrated the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is almost history -- let's take a look at some of the misconceptions, or misunderstandings, about Christmas which are sometimes seen in Christian fellowships and, very frequently, in the non-believing communities.  You might say that this is a cram session so that we will all be prepared next year when these same questions will invariably be asked again and again,



-------------------------------


No need bill, we covered it very well. If you just have to make new threads why not see if you can come up with something that is not already being discussed on other threads? Oh wait! Look who I'm asking! LOL!

quote:   Originally Posted by alwilliams767:

Hi Bill:  I enjoyed your commentary.  Thank you very much.  We may disagree at times but you have a strong faith.  And I, at least admire you for that.  Al


Hi Al,

 

Thank you.  I agree -- we can agree or disagree on issues and still be Friends.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote: Originally Posted by The Raven:

I thank you Bill,  Your comments are very insightful and informative. Keep it up!  Didn't the feast of Saturnalia was once thought to have significance of the date (Dec 25th).  The Raven


Hi Raven,

 

According to Got Questions Ministries web site:   http://www.gotquestions.org/December-25.html

 

Question:  "Was Jesus born on December 25?"

Answer:  
Speculation as to the time of Jesus’ birth dates back to the 3rd century, when Hyppolytus (ca. 170-236) claimed that Jesus was born on December 25.  The earliest mention of some sort of observance on that date is in the Philoclian Calendar, representing Roman practice, of the year 336.  Later, John Chrysostom favored the same date of birth.  Cyril of Jerusalem (348-386) had access to the original Roman birth census, which also documented that Jesus was born on the 25th of December.  The date eventually became the officially recognized date for Christmas in part because it coincided with the pagan festivals celebrating Saturnalia and the winter solsticeThe church thereby offered people a Christian alternative to the pagan festivities and eventually reinterpreted many of their symbols and actions in ways acceptable to Christian faith and practice.

 

According to Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry:   What Are The Origins Of Christmas?
http://carm.org/questions/othe...ristian-celebrate-it

 

In the Roman Empire, by the time of Christ the winter festival was known as saturnalia. The Roman Church was unable to get rid of saturnalia, so early in the 4th Century, they adopted the holiday and tried to make it a Christian celebration of the Lord's birth. They called it the Feast of the Nativity. This custom has been part of western culture ever since.

 

Other sources I have read tell us that the Christian fathers in the days of the Roman Empire were disturbed that believers living in Roman cities where the pagan celebration of Saturnalia took place -- were often being tempted into joining in the pagan ceremonies and parties.   They felt it better to give the Christians an alternate and holy celebration would keep them from the pagan orgies and parties.  What better than to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?

 

Just as many Christian churches and fellowships offer Halloween alternative parties now, the early church fathers offered a Saturnalia alternative party then -- celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

 

Whatever explanation we accept -- we cannot get around the fact that we do not celebrate any day as holy; we celebrate our Lord and Savior as holy.  It is Him we celebrate -- and we just happen to do it on December 25th.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote: Originally Posted by Red Baron:

Hi Bill,  I enjoyed your post as well.  Another point about the magi or wise men was they did not show up when Christ was born but about two years later.  They always show up in Nativity scenes but that's not really accurate.


Hi Baron,

 

You are right and I had intended to include that in my original post.  But, it was already getting pretty long.   We find that Matthew 2:11 tells us, "After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh."

 

And, in Matthew 2:16 we read, "Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi."

 

And the study note regarding verse 11 in my Harper's NASB Study Bible reads:

 

There is no way of determining how long after the birth of Christ the wise men arrived in Bethlehem.  That they did not see the babe on the night of His birth is clear from the fact that the family was in a house (2:11), and that King Herod ordered all male children up to two years of age to be slain (Matthew 2:16), in accordance with the information given him by the wise men concerning the time of the star's appearance (Matthew 2:7), presumably the night Christ was born.


 From this we know that Jesus was not a babe in the manger when the magi visited Him.  And, we know from verse 16 that He could have been as old as two years old.  So, the best we can speculate is that He was most likely between one and two years old -- according to the appearance of the star followed by the magi.

 

Baron, thank you for bringing out this point.  We symbolize the Nativity Scene as a babe in the manger -- but, when all is said and done -- we really are worshiping Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by alwilliams767:

Hi Bill:

I enjoyed your commentary.  Thank you very much.

We may disagree at times but you have a strong faith.  And I, at least admire you for that.

Al

______________________

How can you say that when Bill has, in the past, accused you of not being a Christian, as he has many here? As long as you support him & give him his "recognition as a Christian ", he will not attack.

 

What do you believe the Bible is speaking of when it speaks of a wolf in sheep's clothing?

best dear you athiest seriously need to face this before you accuse Christians of anything.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-12-21/

   i mean let's get real here. your leader Shermer has indeed gone over the edge. If you can submit this skeptik site as the obelisk of athiesm served up by Shermer you have much work to do in your own camp. let alone nosing into religious practices. y'all are tithing so he can dart around as a fancy selling goofy books. The facts about his tax dodge are there for anyone to read.

Originally Posted by lexum:

best dear you athiest seriously need to face this before you accuse Christians of anything.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-12-21/

   i mean let's get real here. your leader Shermer has indeed gone over the edge. If you can submit this skeptik site as the obelisk of athiesm served up by Shermer you have much work to do in your own camp. let alone nosing into religious practices. y'all are tithing so he can dart around as a fancy selling goofy books. The facts about his tax dodge are there for anyone to read.

There is no "tax dodge". You really are a moron.

Originally Posted by lexum:

best dear you athiest seriously need to face this before you accuse Christians of anything.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-12-21/

   i mean let's get real here. your leader Shermer has indeed gone over the edge. If you can submit this skeptik site as the obelisk of athiesm served up by Shermer you have much work to do in your own camp. let alone nosing into religious practices. y'all are tithing so he can dart around as a fancy selling goofy books. The facts about his tax dodge are there for anyone to read.

-----------------------

 

OK, let's "get serious". First of all I don't know Shermer. Secondly it was YOU that "submitted" this site. I know you're teetering on the edge of insanity but surely you remember making the thread. But then again maybe you forgot you're posting in the lexum ID now. He is free to sell his books if he wants, he's free to ask for donations, and as far as "tax dodge", clean up your own house before you start up about someone else. If churches are given tax free status then everyone should have it. Now you trot on down to wherever it is you and the rest of the loonies converge and hand over your money. 

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