Motivation?

I believe he is for real. I have met Christians just like him. He is a Fundie and this is normal behavior for them.

Bill Gray is who he says he is. He probably does enjoy the attention and it feeds his ego, but I believe what he says on here is how he actually believes. As I said I have met plenty of others just like him. He is not special or different than his fellow radical fundamentalists. (see Fred Phelps)

I rarely engage him in a discussion. Its just not worth my time to follow him in his twisting and turning of reality. When I do interact with him in a discussion it is usually for my own benefit and to show how extreme and illogical some Christians can become. In other words I just use him when I need someone to be an example of ridiculousness.

Veep, you're probably right... I'll try again... No promises though... I'm a perfectionist and the man is a perfect idiot...

LOL Veeplee, Bill’s forte is his invented rhetoric. He has total command of it and to the untrained eye it appears extrinsic or outside one’s normal heretofore certainty of two +two and out of fear some give him a listen.

   His momentum I suspect is fueled by an audience out there in California, not too familiar with the English. language and by the time he reaches here he is emboldened to try it on the savvy.

  Don’t fret or give it a second thought. He fears me and I will twist his ear when he gets too far out of line.

Gee, Quail,

All of that -- just because I know Obama is a fraud, and that Labor Unions are sucking the life blood out of America?   Wow, what would you do if I really told you even more amazing truths?

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

Jank name some names.

Hail to King Obama and his precious fam.Bill these ladies have reason to suspect you as a wart on truth and you avoid the truth without hesitation or apology. Given the possibility you could live to be 114 why don't you live out that balance a lover of truth  and a Democrat union organizer?

----------------

Done and answered... 

How original -- a professed atheist calling a Christian names.  Who would have ever thunk it?  Wow, kind of blows my Conservative Christian mind!   But, I suppose I will get through all the excitement.  I suppose all I can do is to repeat Crusty's favorite word:  "Well, DUH!"

By the way, as a Conservative Christian, I do believe in what you derisively call "Fundamentalism."

Fundamentalism merely means that we refute Liberal Theology, or what some call Postmodern Christianity.   Yes, we do believe and teach that the Bible is the Holy Spirit INSPIRED, Holy Spirit INERRANT, LITERAL Written Word of God -- and is the sole authority for salvation and Christian living.

And, Fundamentalism means that we believe that salvation is gain only by the grace of God, through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, the preexisting Son of God, on the cross -- plus nothing else.

Yes, I do believe in those things.  So, if that is why I am being called a Fundamentalist -- then, all I can say is, "Guilty as charged!   And praise God for it!" 

Jan, thank you, my Friend, for reminding folks of the true meaning of Fundamentalism.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Christian fundamentalism, also known as fundamentalist Christianity, or fundamentalism,^[1] refers to a movement begun in the late 19th and early 20th century British and American Protestant denominations among evangelicals who reacted energetically against theological and cultural modernism.^[2] Fundamentalists argued that 19th century modernist theologians had misinterpreted or rejected certain doctrines, especially biblical inerrancy, which evangelicals viewed as the fundamentals of Christian faith.^[3] A few scholars regard Catholics who reject modern theology in favor of more traditional doctrines as fundamentalists.^[4] Scholars debate how much the terms "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" are synonymous (see below).

Fundamentalism is a movement manifested in various denominations with various theologies, rather than a single denomination or systematic theology. It became active in the 1910s after the release of the Fundamentals, a ten-volume set of essays, apologetic and polemic written by conservative Protestant theologians to defend what they saw as Protestant orthodoxy. The movement became more organized in the 1920s within U.S. Protestant churches, especially Baptist and Presbyterian. Many such churches adopted a "fighting style" and combined Princeton theology with Dispensationalism.^[2] Since 1930, many fundamentalist churches in North America and around the world have been represented by the Independent Fundamental Churches of America (renamed IFCA International in 1996), which holds to biblical inerrancy, the Virgin birth of Jesus, substitutionary atonement, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the Second Coming of Christ

Veep, fundamentalist religion of whatever stripe is hateful.
The intellectual hoops that one must leap through become more and more difficult, contradictory, impossible as one leaps through one after another.
Look at Scientology.  At OT Level 3, one is exposed to the concept of Xenu and the thetan infestation.
Bill's Christianity is at least as perverse.
If one takes the ideals of Christianity to heart, one makes some progress towards civilization, but one risks the pitfalls of superstition and the incorrigible hatred of the concept of Hell.  There was no Hell in the Abrahamic religions until Jesus, meek and mild.  He, Jesus,  cannot be forgive for such an unbalanced judgment.  Neither can Bill.

DF

Hi Deep,

Thank you, my Friend, for when you choose to denigrate Jesus Christ, or a Christian as His follower -- you add tremendous credibility to the Christian faith.  Nothing adds more credence to the Christian faith than a blind atheist denying Him.

Keep up the good work!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

vplee any of us are capable of anything, even as Christians, and behaving in a way (an un-Christian like way) such that it can appear that we are or are not Christians or Christ like.  Over all I believe Christ instructs us not to JUDGE one another or set in Judgement of one another and I fully believe the purpose of this is as much for our own selves as it is not to be destructive of our own witness or destructive of others around us.  Often when a person judges another it is out of a feeling of superiority and infallibility in that the person feels they are superior or more holy than another and they stand above the reproach of anyone else.  Many that judge others also do not see that it harms their ability to witness of Christ and hurts their personal testimony and builds walls rather than opportunities.  

I also believe though that the emphasis, about Judging, applies more to Christians judging non-Christians than Christians judging other Christians actions to see if they are in accordance with God's/Christ's instructions as how we are to relate with one another, in Love .. etc such as instructed in examples like with Romans 14 when it comes to differences in personal belief among fellow Christians, in matters where two see things two different ways or in matters of interpretation variances of minor doctrinal issues.

That said I also believe that, as Christians, we are to be fruit inspectors, so to say, that we are to test what others around us are saying and teaching.  We can look at the lives and the indicators associated with those around us who claim Christ and claim to be teaching His word and claiming some kind of authority to teach and instruct and correct.  We are not, as Christians, to just accept someone's word that they are legit and that their motives are noble and honest and not prideful. 

We cannot view into each other's hearts and minds and know surely that what is there is genuine but what we can do is observe if the conduct and actions of those who claim the name of Christ correspond to that which proceeds from and comes from the possession and the presence of God's Holy Spirit, also known as "The Fruits of the Holy Spirit".

Consider the following:

This doesn't mean that all Christians will show these fruits in their lives and actions but the thrust of vs 25 is to command and suggest that we, as Christians, with a concern for Christ SHOULD WALK in the Spirit.  If a person IS Saved, and IS honestly walking with Christ and in God's Will then there is no reason or hindrance that would prevent these very fruits from being openly visible and demonstrative to all those around that person and that interact with that person. 

So if there is any concern or question as to if a person is walking in God's Will and functioning as a Christian or mimicking Christ then each of these Fruits of the Spirit should be most evident and come through in not only their interactions and writings with others but their life in general and are an open and public testimony to those around that Christian that there is something special and meritorious about that person that is exceptional and supernatural in that they are not acting as normal humans are, not reacting as normal humans are in and with anger, malice, or any of the opposites of the Fruits that naturally come from God's Holy Spirit's presence. 

Again, absence of these Fruits doesn't mean that a person is lost or that we are to judge that they are lost but it also could mean that that, professed, Christian is NOT WALKING in the light of Christ and not walking with and in the Holy Spirit but possibly attempting to do things themselves apart or away from the Holy Spirit.  In other words not being responsive to the Spirit's direction but setting of on a course they determine is right and the best, potentially out of ignorance of the word or pride itself for any Christian is also just as capable and able to sin and fail as anyone else including doing the same as those that do not know Christ.   Judging another therefore is not to our advantage other than when to determine if they are acting in the Will of God and in accordance with Scriptures and Christ Directions. 

Just a few thoughts to consider for motivation is very difficult to determine and often the best course of action is just to Love one another, even when love is not warranted, and pray that God's Spirit will minister unto those who harm us and who offend us and pray that God, through His Holy Spirit maintain us in His Will and show Christ (Love and testimony) through our own lives and responses and reactions with others.  That is my own two cents worth of suggestion and comment.

Thank you, gbrk! For the very positive and inspiring posting... I pray that i and others will read it as you meant it and act accordingly...

good job big g

Good post gbrk.  Veep, I'll try.

If you're suggesting that bill is a troublemaking atheist Poe, I resent that.

DF

Dedicated To My Friend, Deep!

I actually thought about you tonight, DF, when I read the article at the following URL:

http://science.nbcnews.com/_ne...ang-without-god?lite

Seems Mr. Hawking has it all figured out.  Looks like, from the description of his audience, there is quite a few that are wanting to hear what he has to say.  From my perspective each person forms their own opinions and beliefs from someone or something.  It's amazing though how many want to try and find some explanation apart from God all while not really knowing in the first place.  

From the article I still say it takes more faith to believe that all this and all creation came from absolutely nothing than it is to believe that a supreme deity (God) brought about the physical realm/creation from a realm that Science cannot and has not ever been able to verify or conceive of ( The Spiritual).  But then you knew where I stood on that argument too.

Another link which I have not read but is referenced in the above one is:

http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_...s-not-needed-so?lite

It's amazing though how many want to try and find some explanation apart from God all while not really knowing in the first place.  

===================================================

It's amazing how some want to claim a god while all the while not really knowing in the first place. A man that was always here, decided to play in the dirt. Yep, makes sense. Has anyone ever thought-did this god ever wonder where he came from? Who was this god's parents? Or was this god the ONLY thing floating around out there? All that makes sense, but the "big bang" doesn't? 

Best, I have to agree with you here. 

Which is more believable, an eternal being that, after having been around forever - literally, decided just 6k years ago to create a universe; or that the universe itself is eternal?

The explanation, "God did it" in six days 6k years ago has been dis-proven, and the evidence against it keeps mounting. 

Crusty, I don't think for one minute that we will ever know for sure how it all came to be, and really all I am is curious about it, it doesn't consume all my waking moments like it seems their god does theirs. I read and listen to theories, discard the ones that don't make sense, one of which is a god, and keep up on others that sound plausible. 

Hi all,

GB tells Deep, "From the article I still say it takes more faith to believe that all this and all creation came from absolutely nothing than it is to believe that a supreme deity (God) brought about the physical realm/creation from a realm that Science cannot and has not ever been able to verify or conceive of ( The Spiritual).  But then you knew where I stood on that argument too."

Something cannot come from nothing, not if one believes in the laws of physics.   But, the science and laws of physics -- had to come from somewhere.  Where, what, or Who?

"In the beginning God CREATED the heavens and the earth"  (Genesis 1:1).  There can be no other explanation.

Everything must have a cause, and there must be an initial cause.  Whatever that initial cause is -- is the supreme power.  The laws of physics says that matter cannot be created nor destroyed.  Yet, the initial matter had to come from somewhere; so, from where, from what, from Who?

Since the universe is comprised of matter; it cannot be the cause, for it had to be caused.

If we trace all things back to the initial cause, we have found God.  If God has a cause, that that cause would be God.  Ultimately, there has to be one initial cause -- and, I call that cause God.

So, in your mind, who or what is the initial cause? 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Irrefutable logic, NB - if you know no science, base your argument on a false premise, and accept that if you don't know something, "God did it".  

in your own words bestyaking describe how the big bang is so believable to you. you ain't got a clue yet you want to yak.

crust, who, what, where, when did anyone prove anything beyond any doubt?  . you have no idea when one +something else approaching one is close enough to be considered two.  on a large enough scale the difference in 6000 and 13.85 billion becomes an insignificant number.  You need to always agree with bestyaking. it fits you well. God is beyond the number system that keeps you and bestyaking corralled in iggernance. what are you trying to second guess God for? huh?

_____________

You crack me up. 

Hi all,

I asked Jennifer:

If we trace all things back to the initial cause, we have found God.  If God has a cause, that that cause would be God.  Ultimately, there has to be one initial cause -- and, I call that cause God.   So, in your mind, who or what is the initial cause?

And, Crusty, in his usual manner, jumps in to answer for her.  Do you think that Crusty believes Jennifer (Bestworking) is not intelligent enough to answer; so he has to answer for her?  Just saying!

Crusty's answer?  Are you ready for this highly intelligent, well thought out answer?  Crusty tells us that his God is, "Irrefutable Logic."    Well, DUH!

So, I guess we are going to have to change Genesis 1:1 to read, "In the beginning Irrefutable Logic created the heavens and the earth." 

Do you suppose we will have to change John 1:1 also to read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Irrefutable Logic, and the Word was Irrefutable Logic."

I suppose, in Crusty's mind, that makes sense.   But, personally, I believe I will stay with the Bible the way God inspired it to be written.  Not sure I can explain it to my dear Friend, Crusty -- but God just has a better feeling to it than Irrefutable Logic.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

_____________________________

OMG, you narcissistic blowhard.  Where do I say irrefutable logic is my god?  I understand that you are too befuddled to understand sarcasm.  But get a grip man, take your meds.  Or at least learn to read with comprehension above 2nd grade.

Last I looked this was a public forum.  If you don't want me ridiculing your ridiculous belief system, take it somewhere else.

As for Best, I am sure she can answer for herself, and will if and when it pleases her. 

Bless your confused little heart.  Have another blissed day, NB.

____________

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA and there you have it. God just "feels" better. I like to think that Unicorns exist. It just feels better to me. HAHAHAHAHAHA

And you call Crusty's post unintelligent?

Careful there Jank, you are answering Bill when he was addressing me. 

What can I say... I don't follow rules that are laid out by mad men or those with delusions of grandeur.

Hi Jan,

If unicorns are your God, not a problem.  At least, not for me.  You will find a problem with it one day, but that is your choice.

You can worship unicorns; Crusty can worship Irrefutable Logic.  And, I will worship God.

But, I must warn you.  I already know the final score of the game -- and God's Team wins!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Best this link is for you to use when you are wondering how to explain to others how your universe came to be: http://home.web.cern.ch/about/...g-universe-beginners. actually it is about as accurate as it gets. Neil DeGrasse Tyson would even use it. LOL

P.S. Jank . you can use it too. lol