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"On Sunday, in discussing the uses of the word 'hero' to describe those members of the armed forces who have given their lives, I don't think I lived up to the standards of rigor, respect and empathy for those affected by the issues we discuss that I've set for myself," Hayes says in a written statement. "I am deeply sorry for that."

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/...s-heroes_645956.html

 

I don't think he should have apologized. I can only imagine what people at MSNBC think about America soldiers or values for that matter.  They shouldn't have to apologize for saying what they really think.  He should be about to stand up like Obama's pastor and say G.D. America so we everyone knows where they stand.

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Hayes' original statement was carefully crafted to express a legitimate rationale for reserving the term "hero" for those who actually meet some reasonable criteria for that title.

 

Some soldier who spends his time in Iraq or Afghanistan in some sheltered location in a logistical backup function and is not significantly exposed to the hazards of war is certainly not any kind of a hero in the same sense as is a combat infantryman engaged against hostile fire and repeatedly gritting his way through life-threatening situations.

 

Subtleties of the kind that are present in Hayes' statement are likely to escape  simplistic folks who see things only in the darkest  blacks and the brightest whites.

I have to agree with seeweed and the liberals on this one. But only to a point. I our State of Utah, since 9-11-2001 every soldier, every firefighter and policeman have been referred to as Heroes to the point that the designation of the label is meaningless. A hero in my opinion is not anyone who wears a uniform. There are a lot of heroes who wear a uniform and those who do not. A hero is someone who put their own life on the line above and beyond. A firefighter who searches a burning building for trapped civilians is not a hero. One that goes in after it is no longer reasonable to go in is. In my opinion very few police officers ever reach the level of hero.

No offence to police officers that do not abuse their powers. Those in the military who enlist in time of war already have a level of bravery yet not to the point of being a hero. But whether or not those who die for our country and us are brave or heroic in their last moments on earth, I still can be comfortable referring to them as Heroes. And as for the timing of the MSNBC reporter’s time, it was horrible. He should have apologies for the Vets and soldiers he insulted on their day.

Skippy

I had an uncle who was in the Navy SeaBees in WWII. He was always talking about how he "went overseas and fought."  Was he a hero? He did go overseas, but his "fighting" consisted of changing light bulbs in Newfoundland, and driving a ferry across the mouth of Pearl Harbor.

 

I would think the label of "hero" could rather be more legitimately given to another uncle, whose military career ended when he jumped into Ste. Mere Eglise before daylight on D-Day as a radio operator in the 82nd Airborne and was severely wounded.

 

Ste. Mere Eglise

By the time of D-day the town was occupied by Austrian anti aircraft gunners, driving wood burning trucks. During 1944 there were frequent allied air raids on the town and the night of June 5th - 6th was no different. A house in the square caught fire, (now the site of the airborne museum) possibly caused by one of the marker flares dropped by the pathfinders. The inhabitants formed a chain with buckets from the pump in the square (now a listed monument). At this point parachutes were seen in the night sky and began landing in and around the town. It was the 82nd airborne division. The Germans opened fire and ordered the locals into their houses. The Austrians left and only a few Germans continued the fight. The town was taken by members of the 505th led by Lieutenant-Colonel Edward C. Krause. At 04:30 the stars and stripes were hoisted over the town and St Mere Eglise was the first town to be liberated in France. The town was made famous by the paratrooper John Steel and by the film "The Longest Day". John Steel managed to land on the church and his chute caught on the steeple. 

http://www.normandy1944.org.uk/ste_mere_eglise.htm


Originally Posted by Chuck Farley:

Well there you go people you heard it from our resident liberals, if someone dies for their country they aren't a hero.

 

 

I had an uncle who died in Tunisia in 1943 as a Mechanic's Mate in the U.S. Navy. Was he a hero?

I'll let you be the judge. Here are the circumstances of his death:

 

It was a dark and foggy night. He was riding back to camp after a night on the town in the back of a truck being driven by a Brit because he was the soberest of the bunch. But you know how Brits drive on the left side of the road? Well, their left side is the Americans right side coming from the opposite direction. Their truck ran head-on into an American tank coming from the other direction, in the same lane, unseen in the fog, and he died.

 

Was he a hero just because he died, and overseas in a theater of war at that? 

Chris Hayes was referring to FALLEN SOLDIERS people who DIED serving this country.  In my opinion even if you die in training you are a hero if you died serving your country.

 I would have to agree with your statement for the most part especially considering that we have an all volunteer army now.
I would only make a minor notation.  If you die in the service of your country, you are a patriot. Some who have died went above and beyond the call of duty and should be remembered for their greater sacrifice as a hero. But to call anyone who has died in the service as a hero would be welcomed.
Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

The larger point is that the proper use of the word "hero" is a legitimate discussion to have, but it's clear that it's impossible to have because some people aren't interested in any debate and attempt to shut it down with mischaracterizations and baseless accusations of anti-Americanism.

Okay is the NEWS on memorial day the appropriate platform for this discussion?

The Sunday before Memorial Day, actually, and not on the news, but on an early morning opinion and chat show that almost nobody watches. And why not on or near Memorial Day? That's when we frequently refer to our fallen soldiers as heroes, so if you want to raise the question of how we should use the word 'hero' then naturally you'd bring it up around that time. If you actually watch or read what he said, you can see that he raised the question in the most respectful way possible and explicitly articulated his regard for our troops and in particular those who have made the ultimate sacrifice. Unfortunately, people with an agenda saw an opportunity in Chris Hayes' remarks to ignore and remove all context in order to smear him with all kinds of outrageous things he didn't say.

 

Personally, I would love to have a media and political culture in which controversial subjects such as this could be debated openly and honestly, but as this episode makes depressingly clear, that's not the culture we have.

Crumbpicker, there is one person whose posts VERY VERY often have rasict undertones, or in quite a few cases, blatant racism. I think MOST people here know who it is.

 

There is another poster here who hardly ever posts anything of substance, whose main goal here seems to be using childish insults to promote his agenda.

 

I leave it to you to figure out who these two are.

Originally Posted by O No!:

Crumbpicker, there is one person whose posts VERY VERY often have rasict undertones, or in quite a few cases, blatant racism. I think MOST people here know who it is.

 

There is another poster here who hardly ever posts anything of substance, whose main goal here seems to be using childish insults to promote his agenda.

 

I leave it to you to figure out who these two are.

I can think of several who post often and depending on your point of view, may be considered ignorant. I have not seen blatant racism, but then, I am not looking for it.

The one thing Obama did do for this country was make race relations worse. Thanks to his race, I cannot criticize his policies without being called racist. Would that mean that all the people who didn't vote for Bush or Clinton or Bush or Reagan, etc.. were all also racist against white men?

I can think of several who post often and depending on your point of view, may be considered ignorant. I have not seen blatant racism, but then, I am not looking for it.

The one thing Obama did do for this country was make race relations worse. Thanks to his race, I cannot criticize his policies without being called racist. Would that mean that all the people who didn't vote for Bush or Clinton or Bush or Reagan, etc.. were all also racist against white men?

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Good luck getting an answer.  I've asked that over and over. People that have been members of the republican party for all their "voting life" are suddenly racists because they didn't/won't switch over and vote for a democrat that happens to be HALF BLACK, even though he is pitifully unqualified. I wouldn't have voted for hillary clinton. What "color" is she? What would they do if she had been elected? Most likely they'd have declared that we didn't like her because the republicans are waging a  "war on women." What's more racist, a person that is half black, half white, ignoring his white "side" and proclaiming himself black, and blacks voting for him simply because of that, or a republican voting for the candidate they and their party supports? 

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