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New astrophysical discoveries leave little to no room for Atheism, expert says

 

“The arguments of Fr. Spitzer are addressed to every honest human being who is trying to reach to God through science,” said Mr. Busch, during the introduction.

“Atheism and pop culture have had a significant impact on Theism and it has to be confronted especially because Secularism and the negation of God are becoming pervasive,”

 

“Theism, in fact,  can be better explained by contemporary science and modern philosophy better than ever before,  but particularly interesting is what is happening in the field of astrophysics ... to the point that  I can't imagine why agnosticism and Atheism are still popular,” Fr. Spitzer said.

 

“That is why we need contemporary ‘translators’ that are capable of bringing today's science to regular people, and especially, to bring the astrophysical response to atheism,” he added.

Fr. Spitzer explained that, since science is based on a empirical model, it can change at any time. Nevertheless, as science develops and the so called “Big Bang” theory of the origin and existence of the universe becomes more refined, “it becomes less and less possible for other explanations (of the universe) to be scientifically viable.”

 

The theory, developed by the Belgian Catholic priest and astronomer Georges LemaÎtre, proposes  that the Universe has expanded from a primordial dense initial condition at some time in the past (currently estimated to have been approximately 13.7 billion years ago), and continues to expand to this day.

 

The model, according to Fr. Spitzer, has been revised, refined and scientifically established to a point that any other theory of the origin and existence of the universe has become harder and harder to defend.

Fr. Spitzer explained that, what we know from the most recent scientific evidence is that “the universe is not the universe of Mr. Newton anymore, it is not infinite, it is finite, it started at some point, and is in constant expansion.”

 

He then explained the complexity of the universe, saying it is based on “an incredibly delicate balance of 17 cosmological constants.  If any of them would be off by one part of a tenth at a forty potency, we would be dead and the universe would not be what it is.”

 

“Every single Big Bang model shows the existence of what scientists call a ‘singularity,’ and the existence of each singularity demands the existence of an external ‘element’ to the universe,” Fr. Spitzer said.

The priest physicist then proceeded to explain the different, complex versions of the various Bing Bang theories.

 

He quoted Roger Penrose, the world-famous English mathematician and physicist, who corrected some of the theories of his friend and colleague Stephen Hawking to conclude that every Big Bang theory, including the one known as Quantum theory, confirms the existence of singularities. Therefore, said Spitzer, the need to find an explanation to the universe’s existence drives us to seek “a force that is previous and independent from the universe.”

 

Fr. Spitzer also quoted the 2003 experiments by three leading cosmologists, Arvin Borde, Alan Guth, and Alexander Vilenkin, who were able to prove that any universe which has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be infinite in the past but must have a past space-time boundary.

 

“The concept at this point is clear: nothing is nothing, and from nothing, nothing comes, since nothing is... nothing!” Fr. Spitzer said, to explain the fact that contemporary astrophysics demands “something with sufficient power to bring the universe into existence.”

 

“It sounds like a theological argument, but is really a scientific conclusion.

 

“There is no way to ignore the fact that it demands the existence of a singularity and therefore of a Creator outside space and time,” he added.

 

According to Fr. Spitzer, “this theory has become so scientifically solid, that 50% of astrophysicists are “coming out of the closet” an accepting a metaphysical conclusion: the need of a Creator.”

 

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Oh seriously, no astrological discoveries are finding there has to be a God or gods.  Just because we don't know the exact mechanism something happens doesn't means it automatically defaults to the actions of a God.  If a person believes in God that is fine and I sure wouldn't try to talk him out of it, but if a person doesn't, this isn't going to make him convinced there is one.  Nice try, though.

 

To each her own beliefs, and there is room for all...with some respect.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Circular drivel.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Seems like Crudy, you can't deal with the truth, you can't deal with a lie,

you can't deal with common sense, you can't even deal with yourself.

So whats the phukk n deal?


Or maybe Crusty has his own opinions and isn't required to believe anyone else's or explain himself.

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Circular drivel.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Seems like Crudy, you can't deal with the truth, you can't deal with a lie,

you can't deal with common sense, you can't even deal with yourself.

So whats the phukk n deal?


Or maybe Crusty has his own opinions and isn't required to believe anyone else's or explain himself.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I didn't ask him to believe anything, did I.

Just reading the thread...you seemed to make a lot of assumptions about him.  Really how do any of us know what someone can deal with or what the "truth" is that a person should believe?  Maybe there isn't a deal is all I am saying.  Maybe Crusty just believes that it is circular drivel as he said...lol. 

I think down deep everyone knows the Bible is true. After all it explains anything we need to know about science. One such thing came up in Sunday school. Someone asked “what about the Heisenberg principle and the Einstein, Rosenberg, Padolsky experiment and “spooky action at a distance” as Einstein described the apparent action superluminally without regard to distance.

The answer was recorded in Genesis when God spoke the universe into existence in an instance. God is not bounded by time. Someone in the class asked “what about the constantly expanding universe how can that be seen as an instance?” .  One of the bright students spoke up and replied “let me remind you that three of natures constants: the speed of light, the gravitational constant and the cosmological constant are often equal to (1) in calculations for properties in quantum physics and cosmology. We are living in the “1” that only God can comprehend. The “instant” where there is no time element if you may.

Yes friends the Bible contains all the answers to our scientific questions if one only studies.

Invictus is after all correct with his post.

Originally Posted by lexum:

I think down deep everyone knows the Bible is true. After all it explains anything we need to know about science. One such thing came up in Sunday school. Someone asked “what about the Heisenberg principle and the Einstein, Rosenberg, Padolsky experiment and “spooky action at a distance” as Einstein described the apparent action superluminally without regard to distance.

The answer was recorded in Genesis when God spoke the universe into existence in an instance. God is not bounded by time. Someone in the class asked “what about the constantly expanding universe how can that be seen as an instance?” .  One of the bright students spoke up and replied “let me remind you that three of natures constants: the speed of light, the gravitational constant and the cosmological constant are often equal to (1) in calculations for properties in quantum physics and cosmology. We are living in the “1” that only God can comprehend. The “instant” where there is no time element if you may.

Yes friends the Bible contains all the answers to our scientific questions if one only studies.

Invictus is after all correct with his post.


And I think deep down many people don't know that at all, and frankly think the opposite.  I also think that if it answers your own questions and has what you feel you need in it that is cool, but it is that attitude that I am talking about that turns people off sometimes.  No, not everyone does think that and they have good reasons not to just as you feel you do to believe it does.  There are many people in this world who don't think that at all, and this goes back to one way being right and anyone who doesn't think that way just hasn't figured it out yet.  It is one thing to say you believe it and I would agree with the logic of that statement.  It is totally another to say that deep down everyone knows the Bible is true.  That is factually inaccurate and doesn't even make sense unless a person sees it through a filter of "knowing" his way is the only right one.

 

And I did study the Bible and no, it doesn't have all the answers for me.  I wouldn't think of teaching a science class based on what I read in the Bible, and if I wanted to my kids to think that I would send them to Christian school.  Again, cool you feel that way, but it isn't a lack of studying and if people would just look deeper they would see what you mean.  It is that the Bible is your reference book, but not everyone else's, and that is fine too.  To each his own and anyone who doesn't agree with you hasn't just not seen the truth yet.

Frog I agree with you on several points. I just think it is cool to imagine at some point in the past about light even having speed let alone calculate its speed. I’m sure it appeared instantaneous to the first thinkers.

When God spoke things into existence as recorded in the Bible we immediately conceive it happening without regard to time. Our study of science now leads us to believe that light is not the ultimate speed. As stated by someone in Sunday school the far universe appears to be receding away at greater-than-the speed of light as we have calculated the speed of light to be. Recent experiments at CERN have demonstrated the neutrino may have traveled at a super luminal speed. Consider these Biblical events as coincidental but one has to accept that the Bible was here first and the odds that God the creator is involved are unquestionable.

I remember reading Tarzan comic books.  The primates referred to the gun as a “bang stick” because that analogy ****ed their inability to understand this strange thing that seemed to defy occurrences that were un-natural to their world of understanding physics. I’m sure when they sat around their huts at night there were many theories as to this strange thing and no doubt there was one theory that emerged as the most popular and plenty of evidence to assure ,at least to them, it was fact.

We have our “big bang” they had their “bang stick”. They had their proof based on mostly imagination and “Big Bangers” have their proof based on imaginary numbers such as isqr rt -1 and Euler’s. To simplify equations by setting natural constants equal to 1 and are therefore the same. Is this cheating? Physicists often refer to it as such.

An interesting study to say the least.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Circular drivel.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Seems like Crudy, you can't deal with the truth, you can't deal with a lie,

you can't deal with common sense, you can't even deal with yourself.

So whats the phukk n deal?

_______________________

Circular drivel.

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Circular drivel.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Seems like Crudy, you can't deal with the truth, you can't deal with a lie,

you can't deal with common sense, you can't even deal with yourself.

So whats the phukk n deal?

_______________________

Circular drivel.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 Still, There's no room for you.

Originally Posted by frog:
And I did study the Bible and no, it doesn't have all the answers for me.  I wouldn't think of teaching a science class based on what I read in the Bible, and if I wanted to my kids to think that I would send them to Christian school.  Again, cool you feel that way, but it isn't a lack of studying and if people would just look deeper they would see what you mean.  It is that the Bible is your reference book, but not everyone else's, and that is fine too.  To each his own and anyone who doesn't agree with you hasn't just not seen the truth yet.

Hi Frog,

 

Just a thought, but, could that be because you were asking the wrong questions?   As I said, just a thought.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

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Originally Posted by frog:
And I did study the Bible and no, it doesn't have all the answers for me.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Frog,

Just a thought, but, could that be because you were asking the wrong questions?   As I said, just a thought.

Bill

________________________________

Could be that when we do ask the right questions, we're given the wrong answers.

And before you ask, I'm not answering your question for frog, I answered it for myself.

 

As semi said, no.  That isn't it.  And I am far from the only person who studied and came to that conclusion.  I asked the questions I had, asked some I didn't really have for good measure, discussed it with many people over the years, and it doesn't have all the answers for me.  I am not wandering in a wilderness, not lost, have found a path that feels right to me, and it is not that I just haven't found God yet.  So to be very clear for you so that you understand....no, it isn't that I missed something there.  It is that I saw what was there and it didn't answer everything for me.  I can read, I can interpret as well as you or the next person, and I came to a totally different conclusion.  That doesn't mean I am wrong or that you are wrong, but that I just don't think it means the same thing you do.  You know what?  That is perfectly okay and you don't need to convince me otherwise, just so you know.  

 

By the way, just for clarification that doesn't mean I can't be a loving, caring, informed, happy, fully functional human being.  I just thought I would clarify that while I was at it.  So hopefully we can understand each other and move forward with respect for each other's viewpoints.  After all, we both came to them after careful consideration and study.  

Originally Posted by frog:

       As semi said, no.  That isn't it.  And I am far from the only person who studied and came to that conclusion.  I asked the questions I had, asked some I didn't really have for good measure, discussed it with many people over the years, and it doesn't have all the answers for me.  I am not wandering in a wilderness, not lost, have found a path that feels right to me, and it is not that I just haven't found God yet.  So to be very clear for you so that you understand....no, it isn't that I missed something there.  It is that I saw what was there and it didn't answer everything for me.  I can read, I can interpret as well as you or the next person, and I came to a totally different conclusion.  That doesn't mean I am wrong or that you are wrong, but that I just don't think it means the same thing you do.  You know what?  That is perfectly okay and you don't need to convince me otherwise, just so you know. 






By the way, just for clarification that doesn't mean I can't be a loving, caring, informed, happy, fully functional human being.  I just thought I would clarify that while I was at it.  So hopefully we can understand each other and move forward with respect for each other's viewpoints.  After all, we both came to them after careful consideration and study. 



How dare you question the great and powerful Bill Gray!  Don't you know he knows everything about anything? Don't you know that Bills opinion is the final word and everyone else is just background noise and interference? Again, how dare you! 

BTW: I agree with everything you said here. Pretty much how I see it too.

Actually, I seem to vaguely remember the nuns and priests asking me how dare I question pretty much anything that was Jesus/God/tradition/what they said.  I think that is how my questioning was entrenched.  If I do or believe something I want to know why and what it is I am signing on for, so any group or person who tells me not to question usually either doesn't know why but just does what someone tells them to, or has ideas or plans that s/he knows can't stand up to scrutiny.  A group that welcomes questioning, searching, and freedom of thought is one that respects the members' intelligence and ability and right to think and decide if it makes sense to them.  

 

Just my observation and that is just how I personally think...lol.

Originally Posted by dark dreamer:
Question everything.

That is my basic definition of education.  Question and if you don't get an answer keep looking until you find it.  If someone tells you it isn't okay to learn and think, question, and grow (notice I don't mean to pretend to want to learn to disrupt class/life by being a pain, but I mean sincerely seek for knowledge), then that person isn't your friend or has a different agenda than you may have previously thought.

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