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Chick, my Friend,

YOU have been peeking through the banisters again!  Not nice!  Don't you know kiddies are supposed to be in bed early and not sneaking a peek from the stairs? 

But, not to worry -- God still loves you!

Bless your sneaky-peeky little heart!

Your Friend, Bill

Semi, the resident troll is attacking you merely as a diversion... This thread has seen his OSAS tenet unravel and he is desperately attempting to divert attention from that fact... I'm surprised that he hasn't resorted to his usual tactic of declaring it a spitting contest and starting a new diversionary thread... Perhaps he realizes that a new thread would also soon unravel...

Ah, shucks, Dove,

You know you would be broken hearted if I left the Religion Forum.  Next to you, I am most likely the oldest member posting -- but, unlike you, age has not clouded my perception of God and His Written Word.  But, not to worry.  If you are a Christian believer -- you and I will still be able to fellowship in heaven.

Now, that will be exciting -- to see some of my Religion Forum Friends in heaven.  I sure hop the Chick, Vic, and Crusty gets their acts together and join us.

Bless your little old age-clouded heart!

Bill

__________

Whatever he says doesn't bother me, I just consider the source. He's attacked all of us at one time or another, & will do it again because that's how he gets his jollies. Makes him feel good to put others down.

Contendah, my Friend,

Let's examine the Scripture references you offer for evidence of salvation:

Colossians 1:23, "If indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the Gospel that you have heard, . . . "  

Hebrews 6:4-6, "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away. . . " 

Notice that in both these Scripture passages we see that the person or people have HEARD the Gospel, even had TASTED the Gospel -- but, NOWHERE do we read that they had BELIEVED and were SEALED in Him.  In other words, nothing in those two passages tell us that the people took the final step and BELIEVED in Him unto salvation.

Compare that to this verse in Ephesians:

Ephesians 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening (hearing)to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise." 

Here we are told that the person or people had HEARD the Gospel and had BELIEVED the Gospel which led them believing and being sealed in Christ, i..e., saved unto eternal life in Christ.

But, my Friend, as I have told you numerous times -- if you are happy believing that YOU can lose your salvation -- that is not a problem for me.   For I KNOW that I cannot lose my salvation.  I have His promise on that -- in John 6:47, John 10:28-29, etc.

You keep looking over your shoulder -- and I will keep walking joyfully toward eternal life in Christ.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Contendah, my Friend,

Let me offer a point for you to contemplate, give thought to:  In offering your rambling dissertations and cherry-picked Scripture -- are YOU truly sharing what you believe Scripture tells us?  Or, are you just determined to beat Bill Gray?

My Friend, God's Word, Scripture, is not a battle field, it is not a competition.  Jesus did not tell us in Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15, etc. -- to compete with one another.   He told us to be His witnesses and to take His Gospel, God's Word, to the lost of the world.

You are not in competition with me.  If you seriously believe so absolutely that YOU can lose YOUR salvation -- I do not want to argue with you about it.  I am not trying to change your mind.  I am only telling you that what I read in the Bible tells me that I have His promise of eternal life -- and, I want to give you and others that same assurance.   If you do not want that assurance, no problem -- we will still be Raptured together.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Ah, Bill, you are so transparently evasive. You quoted, AND THEN TOTALLY IGNORED   that part of the Hebrews 6 passage that affirms that the persons described there had ""become partakers of the Holy Ghost." And you utterly failed  to answer the question that I repeatedly posed to you, namely:

The believers in Hebrews 6:1-9 [believers who were believers indeed, having become "partakers of the Holy Spirit" (V. 4)] became apostates who were deemed to have "crucified the Son of God afresh" (v. 5).  Were those apostate former believers saved, Bill?

You boogied over to another passage, Ephesians 1:13:

"In Him, you also, after listening (hearing)to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

You contend  that this passage somehow trumps the Hebrews 6 passage because the Ephesian passage specifically mentions that the subject persons "believed and were sealed with the Holy Spirit." 

But tell us, Bill, what is the difference between "being sealed with the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13) and "having partaken of the Holy Ghost" (Hebrews 6:4).  More particularly, what is the difference between the two passages that assures you that the Ephesian were believers indeed but those persons described in Hebrews  6:4 had never been true believers?

Both had received the Holy Spirit, Bill. Are you telling me that there was something in the manner in which the persons in Hebrews 6 had received the Holy Spirit that left them short of having believed as they should have?

It is axiomatic that the persons described in Hebrews 6:4 were once Christian believers, but had apostatized.  Among other things, it is evident that they had at some former time repented, since it would make no sense to say that "it is impossible to restore [them] again to repentance" unless they had repented at an earlier time.   Moreover, they had been "enlightened."  Thayer, the eminent Greek lexicographer (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament,1963 Edition, page  663), says that the Greek word here used is in reference to "those who had been made Christians."  He cites Hebrews 10:32 ("But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened you endured a hard struggle with sufferings....") as having identical meaning and there can be no doubt but that in that passage it is Christians who are being addressed and described.

So there you have it, Bill Gray.  You have placed yourself in the untenable position of declaring that the persons described in Hebrews 6:4, although they had  repented, and been "enlightened" and had "become partakers of the Holy Spirit" nevertheless had somehow never "believed" and thus never were true Christians.

To contend that the formerly penitent, formerly enlightened persons there described were never believers is a zany exercise in Calvinistic eisegesis,  Bill, and you should be ashamed of buying into such a distorted interpretation. Such hermeneutical misadventures, alas, are the inevitable refuge of those who seek to defend the indefensible Calvinistic doctrine of perseverance!

As to that Colossians 1:23 passage and your astonishing misinterpretation, Bill, I can only say "GOOD GRIEF!"  What in thunder is the apostle describing if not SAVED BELIEVERS??!!  He says this:

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel...."  Read that again, Bill and tell us just how those Colossians can "continue in the faith grounded and settled" and still not be saved believers.  And do not try to contend that Paul was writing to anyone here but Christians.  In the second verse of the same chapter, he describes who he is writing to:  "To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse...." Paul leaves no doubt that he considers these "faithful brethren" to be saved persons or he would not have addressed them in this manner.  

Bill, you dance around the second part of verse 23 in a feeble, irrational  attempt to argue that though they had "heard", they could not be said to be true believers, that they had not taken the "final step and BELIEVED in  Him unto salvation."  Again, Bill,  just how could  those Colossian "saints and faithful brethren"    "continue in the faith grounded and settled" and still not have "BELIEVED"? ?  How could they "continue in the faith" without having ever been "in the faith"?  One can not continue in something unless one is in that something already!  

In the beginning of this string, Bill, you exulted in the fact that there are many viewers of this forum and that through your so-called ministry, at least some of them might find the truth.  It is my fond hope that at least some of them might read the truth that I have posted above about the utter falsity and shabbiness of your Calvinistic distortions of the meaning of the scriptures discussed above.