Pagan Divinity or Royal Mother

Don't Catholics pray to Mary? Where is that provided for in Scripture? 

I believe that Mary was blessed and her role is rightly celebrated by Christians everywhere but I reject her being queen of heaven as I do not find this warranted.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

Pagan Divinity.

http://www.egyptianmyths.net/isis.htm

DF

Hi Vic,

Your post asks the question, "Is the virgin Mary, earthly mother of the human Jesus, alive or dead?"

She is very much alive.   Just as ALL Christian believers are alive and well in heaven.  ALL believers, and this would include Mary, Joseph, all of Jesus brothers, for sure James and Jude, most likely all His sisters -- when they died in their mortal bodies, they went immediately into heaven to be with the Lord for eternity.

This happens for all who, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive His free gift of eternal life (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Several years ago, the wife of a pastor Friend died unexpectedly.  At her memorial service a lady friend said of her, "When Anita was alive. . . "   I told the lady, "Anita is more alive today than she was while in her mortal body.  She is now ALIVE with and in Christ!"    And, her husband, the pastor, agreed with me.

Now, Judas is another story.   Although he walked with Christ for three years, he never really became a true believer.  The Bible confirms this.  So, when he died, his soul went into Hades/Torment while his body went into the grave -- to be resurrected in the End Times and judged for his disbelief.

But, Mary, Joseph, and Jesus' earthly siblings, even though their bodies went into the grave, like all who die in faith -- their spirits went directly into heaven.   At the Rapture, their bodies will be resurrected and made immortal, along with all believers who are still alive when He comes to rapture His church.   Then, Mary, Joseph, Jesus' siblings, all other believers, and I will be with Jesus Christ in our immortal, eternal bodies.

That is why we all, including Mary, are called saints.  We are set aside and sealed in Christ.

And, like Red Baron said, nowhere in the Bible are we told to worship Mary or ANYONE except God:  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.   ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ELSE!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Invic - Not all of us Protestants hate Catholics, or the Jewish, for that matter.

Yes, let's not confuse normal Protestants with fundamentalist wackos.

Consider:

"Among all the women who have ever lived, the mother of Jesus Christ is the most celebrated, the most venerated...Among Roman Catholics, the Madonna is recognized not only as the Mother of God, but also, according to modern Popes, as the Queen of the Universe, Queen of Heaven, Seat of Wisdom, and even the Spouse of the Holy Spirit." (Time Magazine, "Handmaid or Feminist?", December 30, 1991, p. 62-66).

BIBLE BRIEF: Jeremiah 7:18, "... the women knead the dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger!"

Could the Roman Catholic Madonna (Mary, physical Mother of Jesus), who is described in the above Time Magazine article as the "Queen of Heaven", be the same as the "Queen of Heaven" which was helping provoke God to anger and judgment in Jeremiah 7:18?

First, let us examine the ancient Queen of Heaven. Most of this information is taken from Alexander Hislop's book, "The Two Babylons", 1917. Hislop traces the Babylon-ian worship of the Queen of Heaven back to the days follow-ing the death of Nimrod. The dating of this event is not known exactly, but seems to date 400+ years after the flood. After Nimrod's death, his wife, Semiramis, was determined to retain her power and wealth. She concocted the story that Nimrod's death was for the salvation of mankind. Nimrod was touted as "the woman's promised seed, Zero-ashta, who was destined to bruise the serpent's head, and in so doing, was to have his own heel bruised." (p. 58-59)

We can easily see that this story is a counterfeit to the true prophecy concerning Jesus Christ. To enable the Babylonian people to better worship this child, a woodcut portrait was created, depicting him in his mother's arms. The mother obviously drew her glory from her deified son. However, "the mother, in the long-run, practically eclipsed the son" in worship. The original picture obviously was meant to merely be a "pedestal for the upholding of the divine son...But, while this...was the design, it is a plain principle in all idolatries that that which most appeals to the senses must make the most powerful impression." (p, 74) The mother obviously created the most powerful visual impression, both because she was an adult and because she was so magnificently arrayed.

Once people began to worship the mother more than the child, Babylonian priests felt forced to issue an edict deifying the mother also. After the passage of still more time, "her son's birth was boldly declared to be miraculous, and therefore she was called ...the Virgin Mother." (p.76) "The highest titles were then bestowed upon her. She was called the Queen of Heaven. In Egypt, she was styled Athor, i.e., theHabitation of God to signify that in her dwelt all the 'fulness of the Godhead'". (p.77) From this pagan beginning, the story of the Virgin Mother (Queen of Heaven) spread throughout the world. In:

• Egypt, she was called Athor (p77)
• Tibet and China, she was called Virgo Deipara (p77)
• Greece, she was called Hestia (Ibid)
• Rome, she was called Juno, or Dove. (p79). From this designation, the Dove became the symbol of the "deified queen..commonly represented with an olive branch in her mouth." It is startling to listen to the Jesuit author, Malachi Martin, asserting in his book, The Keys Of ThisBlood, that now "the Dove is loose, the Dove is loose". The entire theme of this book is that the drive to the New World Order is a competition between the world-wide forces of Communism, Western Capitalism, and Roman Catholicism. Martin clearly believes that Catholicism will prevail in this struggle because of the intervention of the Virgin Mary. Incredibly, this Time magazine article states, "The world will recognize in due time that the defeat of Communism came at the hand of the intercession of the Mother of Jesus" (Time, p. 62)."

From:  http://www.cuttingedge.org/ce1008.html

More on this idolatry:

http://www.remnantofgod.org/evilqueen.htm

Actually, none of we Protestants should hate Roman Catholics or Jews.  We should love them.  And, many in both religions are born-again Christians.  In the Jewish family we see Jews For Jesus and other Messianic Jews.  In the Roman Catholic family, there are many who have become Christian believers.  Of course, as my Friend, Dr. Anthony Pezzotta, told me -- When he decided to become a Christian, it only took him about three hours to leave the Roman Catholic church. 

Yet, even though we might wonder how they can tolerate many of the unBiblical doctrines and traditions, there are Christian believers still in the Roman Catholic church.

All the other Roman Catholics and Jews who have not yet become Christian believers -- Christ has charged us with the task of witnessing to them, as we do to all the rest of the world and world religions.

Thank you for bringing this thought up for discussion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

All the other Roman Catholics and Jews who have not yet become Christian believers -- Christ has charged us with the task of witnessing to them, as we do to all the rest of the world and world religions.

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Oh my, aren't you special!!

Contindah said

Could the Roman Catholic Madonna (Mary, physical Mother of Jesus), who is described in the above Time Magazine article as the "Queen of Heaven", be the same as the "Queen of Heaven" which was helping provoke God to anger and judgment in Jeremiah 7:18?

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Jeremiah 7:18

The children gather wood, their fathers light the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the Queen of Heaven, while libations are poured out to other gods—all to offend me!

 Queen of Heaven:  Astarte, goddess of fertility, worshiped particularly by women . Such worship was evidently reinforced during the reign of King Manasseh  and was revived after Josiah’s death.

i didn't realize mythology was one of your core beliefs, too bad the Bible isn't

one of your beliefs, you and Billie have a lot in common.

OK, maybe the "in common" thing was a bit too much, I can't do that to you.

The Evangelical Ralph Woodrow previously held the view that Catholics

substituted the historical Mary for a pagan goddess. He wrote a popular

book connecting Catholicism to paganism based on an  book written in

1857 by Alexander Hislop called "The two Babylons." After  the integrity of

 Hislop's research was called into question, Woodrow decided to research

these things for himself. He was shocked to find that Hislop's research was

faulty (at best) and scandalous (at worst).

He has removed his previous book from print and has published

 instead "The Babylon Connection." On pg 33-38 Woodrow disassembles

Hislop's arguments against Mary. He is ashamed of his fellow

Evangelicals who use this approach to condemn the Catholic Church's

relationship to Mary and is sorry for propagating these views. He is still

an Evangelical but no longer associates the Catholic Church with paganism.

  Mary is not into watering down her  Son's message with other religions. 

Mary is about one thing and one thing  only - her Son Jesus.

Quite honestly, ALL Christian believers are special, very special to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  And, that is truly a blessing -- to know that He views me, and all Christian believers, as His adopted brothers/sisters, i.e., His brethren.

And, there is a fantastic reward for being in that group -- ETERNAL LIFE IN AND WITH CHRIST!

How about you?  Wouldn't you like to KNOW that you have eternal life in the presence of God?

Jennifer, nothing you, or anyone else has done in this life is so bad that God will not forgive you -- if your sincerely seek His forgiveness.  Since I have lived, I would guess, almost twice as long as you -- I am sure that I have done many things much worse than whatever is keeping you from God.  And, He has forgiven me.   He will do the same for you.  Why not give Him a try?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hi Vic,

Jeremiah 7:18 was written many hundreds of years before Mary was born -- so, obviously Jeremiah was NOT speaking of Mary.   Maybe you should study the Bible a wee bit more to understand what Jeremiah is telling us.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Thank you.  To avoid confusion in worldly minds such as Crusty's -- it is good to keep the Liberal Theology Christians on one side of the room -- and the Conservative Bible-centered Theology Christians on the other side.

I suppose you can reserve the balcony seats for the atheists and other non-believers like Crusty.  From there they can still hear the message -- and, maybe can get a better view of the Liberal Bible (pick and choose) and the Conservative Bible (Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21).

My Friend, thank you for pointing out this distinction.  By the way, if your family were Methodist, how did you stray into Roman Catholicism? 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Quite honestly, ALL Christian believers are special, very special to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  And, that is truly a blessing -- to know that He views me, and all Christian believers, as His adopted brothers/sisters, i.e., His brethren. 

===================

Oh, but not as special as you. No other christian in the world knows all the things you *think* you know. No other christian in the world but you have it *right*.

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Jennifer, nothing you, or anyone else has done in this life is so bad that God will not forgive you -- if your sincerely seek His forgiveness.  Since I have lived, I would guess, almost twice as long as you -- I am sure that I have done many things much worse than whatever is keeping you from God.

======================

Well, you got that right. I've done nothing that I need to be forgiven for by anyone, and yes, I am very sure you have done, and I see you still doing things, a lot worse than I'd ever dream of doing. There is no god for me to be kept away from.

Hi Vic,

You write, "The Evangelical Ralph Woodrow previously held the view that Catholics substituted the historical Mary for a pagan goddess."

Actually, that is historical fact, from both religious and secular writers.   And, Woodrow is not the only writer to point this out.  Many, many who write about religion and the Christian faith have brought out this fact.   To entice them into his new church -- the Emperor Constantine allowed the pagan worshipers to bring their pagan mother/child, i.e., goddess/child, statues into the new church and he just renamed them Mary/Infant Jesus. 

This all began with Semiramis and her son, Tammuz, and spread to other countries as people began to migrate.  Historical fact that even the Vatican cannot deny.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

You do damage control by telling an untruth?  Isn't that the wrong way to go about it?

You say I was never in the Roman Catholic church.  I was there for 20 years -- mass, rosary, missals, statues, medals, the whole nine yards.   How long have you been in the Roman Catholic church?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

You do damage control by telling an untruth?  Isn't that the wrong way to go about it?

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___

It is you and your fellow idolators in the Roman Catholic Church who subscribe to mythology--namely the myth that there is a "Queen of Heaven" in in the form of a "perpetual virgin." Mary was the wife, in every sense, of Joseph who did not know her until she had brought forth her firstborn, but who indeed KNEW HER subsequently in order for her to have borne  siblings of Jesus, including James and Joses..   Thus, she was not perpetually a virgin.  And, yes, I know that lame old Catholic attempt at explaining away those siblings as "cousins," but that old Vatican dog don't hunt. 

More on Marian Mythology:

"Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that “[O]ne can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind.”. Pope Pius IX said, “Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin.[Oh--Rea-a-l-ly?!].. so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her.” [so who needs the "Great Physician, Jesus Christ?]    A lay movement called “Vox Populi” (“Voice of the People&rdquo gathers signed petitions to send to the Pope, seeking to have him officially declare that Mary is Co‑Redemptrix.[A-s-r-gh!!]  Over six million signatures have been sent to him, representing 138 countries and all seven continents.[and many ignorant dupes]  This doctrine is supported by over 40 cardinals and 600 bishops worldwide.[to their everlasting shame]"

Yes, indeed, there is an enormous amount of blasphemous mythology that has been fabricated about Mary by the fertile imaginations of heretical ecclesiastical myth makers!

More here, from a former nun:  http://www.jesus-is-savior.com..._worship_a_study.htm