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I disagree with the Pope how about you?


Pope: Other denominations not true churches

Benedict issues statement asserting that Jesus established ‘only one church’


MSNBC News Services
updated 8:52 a.m. CT, Tues., July. 10, 2007
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.
On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JJPAUL:
I disagree with the Pope how about you?

WELL YEAH!! There's only one way to heaven, thru JESUS CHRIST!!!!!! Not the Catholic Church, Not the Baptist, Not the COC!!!!!!!

I JUST READ THIS, THIS MORNING AND WANT TO SHARE.

One of Satan's greatest successes in bringing and maintaining division between people has been to keep us judging "people groups" by their most extreme elements. In this way, liberals look at conservatives and see the KKK. Conservatives look at liberals and see communists. It is a primary strategy of the enemy to have us perceive one another through the caricatures that he has sown in our minds.
This drives us further apart and hinders the unity that the enemy fears so much. We must also recognize that very few members of other religions or ethnic groups are like the most extreme elements which we probably have viewed in the media. Remember it's the enemy's basic strategy to sow division and misunderstanding by having us judge each other according to labels and sterotypes.

This book also says that If we believe someone with a large ministry is in sin, and we are unable to confront him with our discernment, then we must not be the one to bring the judgment. Do not accuse--intercede!
bjsnider1,

What is the Angocan church?

The two major original churches were the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox churches. If by Angocan, you mean Anglican, that church started with Henry VIII kicking the catholics out of England about 500 years ago. The Anglican church started up about 1,000 years after the catholic and orthodox churches.
Cardinal Ratzinger's opinion and those of John XXIII as well as Paul VI and John Paul II are sorely at odds.
The Roman Church does maintain that it has maintained the Petrine Commission while others, specifically the non-Chalcedon and Orthodox and Anglicans have fallen short. . . to which they reply "Says you!"
All rather like Marsha brushing her hair staring at her own satisfied visage while Jan looks on in disbelief at her imagined superority.
Anglican theology in a nutshell: "The Bishop of Rome hath no power in this Realm of England." Roman response: "I shall put you under interdict." Anglican response: "Hey! That Luther guy has some pretty keen ideas, no mo' Latin! No mo' papal appointments, and guess what Hank, you're the Supreme Governor of the Church of England now!" Roman response: "You're heretics!" Anglican response: "Nuts! Interdict away you Italian dog, I shall make anti-catholicism a hallmark of British identity and fight the Vatican, France and Spain with all my might and the Saxons and Prussians and Swedes will help and the people will approve! Naah naah!"
The Pope is correct in part. Jesus DID establish just ONE church - His church. Unfortunately, being the fallen human beings we are, we've managed to muck it up as usual. All of the branches, denominations and abominations that call themselves churches by whatever name are man's invention, not God's. That's why my family prefers to attend a non-denominational style church where tradition and non-Biblical doctrine are not preached...just the Bible, thank you very much! It's my belief that each person should read the Bible for themselves and determine how it speaks to them in their life and live accordingly. I DO NOT think it's for someone else to read the Bible to me (or for me) and tell me what they think it says and how I'm to behave. That is legalism in its highest form and it's not Biblical but completely man-made.
quote:
Originally posted by Taciturn:
quote:
Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
I DO NOT think it's for someone else to read the Bible to me (or for me) and tell me what they think it says and how I'm to behave.


But isn't that what a Pastor does from the pulpit?


Yes, most churches have a scripture reading at some point during the service, and of course, the preacher, pastor, whatever you want to call him/her should quote from the Bible. Any good preacher worth his salt will always encourage his congregation to follow along with him in the Bible and to make their own individual study of the Word, not just take his word for it.

What I was referring to is things like the Catholic church, which discourages its followers from active Bible reading/study, preferring them to hear it from the priest. Or, like the CofC and other legalistic denominations, dictating through their doctrine and/or tradition what the order of service will be, whether or not there can be instruments in worship, whether or not I can wear pants, jewelry, makeup, whether or not I can consume an alcoholic beverage in the privacy of my own home or in a restaurant, etc. All things that are not fully spelled out in the scripture but are man's interpretation of what scripture is saying.
I know that most of you have your minds made up and will not even bother to read the link posted, but I do wish to put a little positive note on here for my Catholic friends. Perhaps if you get bored latter tonight you might read it and see the humor in all religious discussions.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0201fea3.asp

"Come Out from under the Roman Catholic Church!"
Four Mistakes Never to Make When Talking to a "Bible Christian"
quote:
Originally posted by joeycuda:
I went to a private Catholic school for 9yrs, and to this day I've never actually heard of anyone being discouraged from reading or studying the Bible. We actually had to have one in class, much like a textbook, at some point in my education.


Your experience may have been different. I'm simply going from information passed to me from a friend who grew up in the Catholic faith, had an aunt who was a nun and an uncle who was a priest. She finally left Catholicism in her 40's and began attending mostly Baptist churches or non-denominational ones. Her comment to me was that she was so far behind even young children in her Bible knowledge when she came out of the Catholic faith because the Catholic church discouraged individual Bible study. So, you can take it for what it's worth - I believe her to be an honorable, humble woman and see no reason why she would be dishonest.
Top Down Beemer & Joeycuda, you are both right. It is all in the way you interpret it. I was raised Catholic, too and I felt downright stupid when I went to church with my Baptist and Church of Christ friends. They went to Bible Bowls and could recite the names of all 66 books of the Bible by the time they were 7 years old.

I went to Mass every Sunday and to catechism class every Sunday, too. I knew what the Bible said... just not where. We had a Bible at home and I read it whenever I wanted. I have an aunt who is a nun, too and I would ask her questions about Catholicism and about Christianity in general. She would answer my questions and encourage me to study the Bible, pray, and talk to my priest to get the answers that I needed.

Here is an excellent article on the topic of Catholics vs other denominations and the Bible:

Why Don’t Catholics Read the Bible?
by Dwight Longenecker
The independent Evangelical church I went to as a boy gave me a fantastic amount of Bible knowledge. There were Bible drills in Sunday School classes, Bible memory contests and Bible quizzes, not to mention a complete grounding in all the Bible stories—illustrated with those wonderful flannelgraph figures. As I got older I listened to long Bible sermons, went to home Bible studies, youth Bible camps and a Bible holiday club. I ended up going to a Christian University where Bible study was part of our everyday schedule.

Our Christian home wasn’t particularly anti-Catholic, but some of our preachers were, and the general impression I got was that Catholics not only didn’t read the Bible, but that they weren’t allowed to. They didn’t go to church with their big black Bibles under their arm. They didn’t have long Bible sermons or home study groups or youth Bible camps. How could Catholics believe the Bible if they didn’t read it and study it like we did?

Its true that many Evangelicals know their Bible upside down and backwards, and compared to them Catholics sometimes seem ignorant of the Bible. But that's only an appearance.

The truth is simply that Catholics and Evangelicals use the Bible in different ways and therefore have different kinds of Bible knowledge. Evangelicals use the Bible as a source book for doctrine and right moral teaching, and that's good. 2 Timothy 3.16 says the Scriptures are 'useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.' Evangelicals also use the Bible for personal devotions and inspiration. This too is Biblical. Psalm 119.27 says, 'Let me understand the teaching of your precepts; then will I meditate on your wonders.'

Ordinary Catholics might not be so adept at quoting chapter and verse, but they do know and use Scripture regularly. Its just that they use it in a different way. For a Catholic, Scripture is not so much a book to be studied as a book to worship with. (Ps. 119.7) For Catholics the Bible is almost always used in the context of worship. Did you know that a survey was done to check the amount of Scripture used in the Catholic Mass? The Catholic service was almost 30% Scripture. When the same writer checked his local Bible-based Evangelical church he was surprised to find the total amount of Scripture read took just 3% of the service.

When Catholics go to mass they hear a reading from the Old Testament, they say or sing one of the Psalms, then they listen to a reading from the epistles, then a gospel reading. The whole structure fits together so the communion service if focused on Christ in the gospels. Catholics follow a three year cycle of Scripture reading so a Catholic who goes to church faithfully will--over the three years--hear almost all of the Bible read. Furthermore, the responses, and the words of the communion service are almost all from Scripture. So a church-going Catholic does know and use Scripture--its just that he uses it primarily for meditation and worship (Ps.119.48)--not for personal information and instruction.

http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/dwightlongenecker/currentevents/12.asp
quote:
Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:
The Pope is correct in part. Jesus DID establish just ONE church - His church. Unfortunately, being the fallen human beings we are, we've managed to muck it up as usual. All of the branches, denominations and abominations that call themselves churches by whatever name are man's invention, not God's. That's why my family prefers to attend a non-denominational style church where tradition and non-Biblical doctrine are not preached...just the Bible, thank you very much! It's my belief that each person should read the Bible for themselves and determine how it speaks to them in their life and live accordingly. I DO NOT think it's for someone else to read the Bible to me (or for me) and tell me what they think it says and how I'm to behave. That is legalism in its highest form and it's not Biblical but completely man-made.


There still has to be accountability. We can't just run around saying the whole bible is a grey area. There is black and white. But I believe you know that. I agree with a lot you said. I just want those who don't know to know that it is not all grey.
quote:
Originally posted by outspokenjerk:
So how did Jesus preach?


I'm not quite sure what you mean by HOW did He preach? He didn't stand in a pulpit like our preachers do today, that's for sure. It was mostly in informal settings (out of doors or in homes) where Jesus would just sit down, get comfortable and TALK to the people. He told them stories (parables) and used examples that the people could easily relate to in order to explain God's plan for His people. He did quote scripture, like our modern day preachers, but didn't carry around an arm full of scrolls.
The Catholic church was started by Constantine as a way to unify the competing christian and pagan faiths. Many of the doctrines surviving to this day (including how Easter is popularly celebrated, with Easter eggs, for example) have their roots in pagan worship.

In addition, the bible was voted on by the Council of Nicea, and they and they alone decided what would be in it.

I consider myself to be a Christian and an ethical monotheist, but believing that any one church has a lock on what the true church is is akin to two fleas arguing about who owns the dog they're on. How many plain and simple truths spoken by Christ were left out of scripture for purely selfish reasons?

But besides that...check out today's "Get Fuzzy" cartoon strip (online) to get a perspective on this type of thinking.
Last edited by zippadeedoodah
quote:
Originally posted by Prince albert:
did you know that most protestant commentators say that the popes are the anti-christ, want proof read these commentators, all is talking about 2nd Thesselonians chapter 2

Barnes notes
Matthew Henry
John Gill
Jamieson Faucett Brown
A.D. Johnson
John Westley


I wonder what they would comment about

Ted Haggart
Jimmy Swaggart
Jim and Tammy Faye Baker
Jim Jones
Ernest Angley
Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. et al

I don't think Protestants have the lock on Holiness or Righteousness.
quote:
Originally posted by mandomama:
quote:
Originally posted by Prince albert:
did you know that most protestant commentators say that the popes are the anti-christ, want proof read these commentators, all is talking about 2nd Thesselonians chapter 2

Barnes notes
Matthew Henry
John Gill
Jamieson Faucett Brown
A.D. Johnson
John Westley


I wonder what they would comment about

Ted Haggart
Jimmy Swaggart
Jim and Tammy Faye Baker
Jim Jones
Ernest Angley
Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. et al

I don't think Protestants have the lock on Holiness or Righteousness.


the people you mentioned are in it for the Money, there are very few churches that operates according to the bible, If they have big crowds they have Entertainment, people don't want to go where they are not Entertained.all you have to do is build Soccer fields , Gyms, Kitchens and have lots of dinners, and every once in awhile have in a Celebrity to talk and Sing and you can fill the Pews.

I wonder if you and I read the same Bible, mine says in Marrhew 23-9 " Do not call anyone on Earth Father, for one is your Father he who is in Heaven."
1co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Ac 2:47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The only church that exists is Christ’s. The requirement to be a member of Christ’s church is to be saved. That means to recognize that you are a sinner, and to look to Jesus to forgive and save you from your sins. Those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He died on the cross for their sins and rose again, will be saved. They are born again into God’s family and become members of Christ’s church by their simple confession of faith in Jesus Christ. Those who are God’s children will accept Jesus as their Lord, and will follow Him. That means when given the opportunity, they will follow Christ in baptism, and publicly acknowledge Jesus as their Savior and Lord. Jesus is our only Savior, and God is our only Father. If you are a believer in Christ, who has repented of your sins, then you are a child of God, and Jesus Christ Himself has already added you to His church.

Ac 2:47 And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Christ founded His church, and no man gets that honor. Paul helped establish many local churches. But he never claimed to be the sole founder of Christ’s church, and He never had to go to Peter to get His permission to establish a church. The mission given to Peter by Jesus was to feed His sheep, not to found His church. There are churches in various parts of the world, but those churches should take no glory in who helped establish them, but rather in Jesus Christ, who sacrificed His life in order to save them, and who adds them to His church as they are saved. There is only ONE CHURCH, and that is Christ’s. None should glory in Peter or Paul, or any other man as their founders, but should glory in Christ.

Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

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