Religion

Man, I mean no disrespect at all, but you've got to be kidding on this one, Bluesmann. You may not have done this, but thread after thread on here includes negative Christianity comments. It's water off a duck's back for me, but there it is. No offense intended.

Religion pleases man
Faith pleases God
Chuck Swindall

I don't think what you have heard is anti-
Christian, but anti-religion. At least that is my take and what I mean when I post on those matters.
THose people who take preacher induced causes, that are picked from one or 2 verses, and make a crusade of hate against some people are in the religious category. They seem to have all kind of "thou shall not" things to try to fource down peoples throats.

True people of faith, in my opinion, are ones who try to help people like Jesus taught. Help the poor, heal the sick etc.


Just my take, but if I have a posting on religion, or about some preacher telling people they are going to Hell if they vote for Democrats, I will not be anti-Christian. I will be anti-religion. There is a big difference.

Excelman...I really don't let it bother me. You know, if the choices are get ticked off, cry or laugh...let's go with laugh. The comments I'm actually referring to are the random ones that don't really seem to go with the thread, but are someone venting. Hey, maybe they need to vent.

I think people (including me) sometimes make the mistake of taking a bad experience & holding that up to define a whole group of people. This happens with Christianity, other religions, political parties, race, etc.

I agree regarding true Christians (Christ-like). Who did Christ spend time with? We should not look at what some would call the outcasts of society and see an outcast. We should see a person & that person's potential because that's what God sees when he looks at us.

quote:

Originally posted by bluesmann:
_Joy_

Did not Jesus turn the water into wine, did HE not tell those who were about to stone a woman for you know what and HE asked, he who has no sin cast the first stone, is that not what some religious fanatics are doing today.

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly. If you mean, in general, judging others, that is a problem that has been around, as you pointed out, since the time of Jesus.

My daughter told me one time that she didn't want to go to church because it was full of hypocrites. She was a teenager at the time and was referring to her teenage friends. I told her the same thing you quoted, bluesmann. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." That's a two-way street.

I understand there are people out there who wear the name of Christ & dishonor that name by a "lifestyle" contrary to that name. But, if you are expecting Christian to mean a person who doesn't make mistakes, some of them big fat ugly ones, or someone who is completely selfless, it's not possible. If that were possible, there was no reason for Christ to come in the first place.

The Bible says that you will be judged with the same measure of judgement you use to judge others. That's enough to shut me up right there because this girl ain't perfect, let me tell you.

quote:

My daughter told me one time that she didn't want to go to church because it was full of hypocrites

My (step) daughter once tried that line on me. I asked her if she knew of a better place for them to be.

well i did use that excuse myself for years when I was a young adult. I well remember my feelings on that particular aspect of religon. I can still relate to those feelings the youngster today have about it.
The thing is one has to get to that point in their OWN spirituality to realize they are not in church for or because of, etc. those other people. One is there to feed their OWN soul, to rejoice in the worship of God.
The saddest thing about this subject is so very many simply learn to play along the same ritual games as the hypocrites and really think that is okay.

The problem is that the Baptists and some other evangelical churches have involved themselves so closely with political movements that one equates them with politics. I left the Baptist church because of this very thing. According to the Southern Baptist Association they lost several million members over the last few years. Maybe its time to rework this approach.

quote:

Originally posted by meanasasnake:
The problem is that the Baptists and some other evangelical churches have involved themselves so closely with political movements that one equates them with politics. I left the Baptist church because of this very thing. According to the Southern Baptist Association they lost several million members over the last few years. Maybe its time to rework this approach.

Yep, you got that right! I am a Christian, used to be a Baptist, not now. I'm just the old-timey kind of Christian tho, not one of these new evangelicals. Fact is , I really don't know what evangelical is- have come to the conclusion that it is a nutcase who wants to use religion to control politics.
From the stand point of a Christian, what worries me much, is what non-Christians think of Christians. I mean, if I were not a Christian already, the likes of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robinson, James Dobson would probably keep me from wanting to be associated witn anything Christian. About a month ago, the guy who is head of the Southern Baptist Convention was in USA saying the Southern Bap would not associate themselves with the environmental movement, or support their cause. What's up with that?

they,nor any "religon" should be all up and involved in supporting any movement whatsoever. If they are true christians, and believe in the wonders God created for us here on this earth, they would ALREADY be doing their own fair share to preserve our enviroment.

There's also a misconception that the head of the Southern Baptist Convention speaks for all S B churches. That is not so. SBC work together for the common goal of supporting missionaries & that's it. No one tells each individual church what to do & if they tried, we'd all just ignore them.

For instance, my church is Southern Baptist & I've never heard that we won't be supporting the environmental movement. I'm very actively involved & assure you I would not have missed that one, being a firm believer in taking care of the earth God provided for me.

Also, every denomination has it's share of wackos, just like every race, every political group, every blah blah blah. Don't judge the whole by the behavior of a few.

quote:

Originally posted by smurph:
well i did use that excuse myself for years when I was a young adult. I well remember my feelings on that particular aspect of religon. I can still relate to those feelings the youngster today have about it.
The thing is one has to get to that point in their OWN spirituality to realize they are not in church for or because of, etc. those other people. One is there to feed their OWN soul, to rejoice in the worship of God.
The saddest thing about this subject is so very many simply learn to play along the same ritual games as the hypocrites and really think that is okay.

I agree, Smurph, on all counts. I think it's when ritual replaces relationship that a person begins to fall. If you don't know Him (relationship), you can't hear Him. If you can't hear Him, you are on your own. If you are on your own & most of us being less than perfect, we usually mess it up pretty good.

quote:

Originally posted by (aka)PuckerupFrog:

quote:

My daughter told me one time that she didn't want to go to church because it was full of hypocrites

My (step) daughter once tried that line on me. I asked her if she knew of a better place for them to be.

LOL, good point, PuckerupFrog.

joy does your church participate in "extra offering requests",outside your local area and church involvement? If they do,try requesting a finicial report on that particular "offering request".

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
There's also a misconception that the head of the Southern Baptist Convention speaks for all S B churches. That is not so. SBC work together for the common goal of supporting missionaries & that's it. No one tells each individual church what to do & if they tried, we'd all just ignore them.

For instance, my church is Southern Baptist & I've never heard that we won't be supporting the environmental movement. I'm very actively involved & assure you I would not have missed that one, being a firm believer in taking care of the earth God provided for me.

Also, every denomination has it's share of wackos, just like every race, every political group, every blah blah blah. Don't judge the whole by the behavior of a few.

You are right in that the head of the convention does not speak for the individual members, but I do believe they set the tone for the churches themselves to follow.
I was still a Baptist when they told us not to take our kids to Disneyworld. That's about the time I started to really look at where the church I had belonged to was headed, and that is fundamentalism. Also, the money you give to your church, part of that goes to the SBC.
Probably a good idea to check with your preacher as to what they really are, and what they believe on these non-moral issues.
THere are still some good old-time Baptist preachers out there, but there is a new bunch that have fallen off the right hand side of the world.

quote:

Originally posted by smurph:
joy does your church participate in "extra offering requests",outside your local area and church involvement? If they do,try requesting a finicial report on that particular "offering request".

Our church finance committee submits a detailed account of where all funds have gone to the church once a month in written form & is up for discussion in the business meeting we have once a month.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
You are right in that the head of the convention does not speak for the individual members, but I do believe they set the tone for the churches themselves to follow.
I was still a Baptist when they told us not to take our kids to Disneyworld. That's about the time I started to really look at where the church I had belonged to was headed, and that is fundamentalism. Also, the money you give to your church, part of that goes to the SBC.
Probably a good idea to check with your preacher as to what they really are, and what they believe on these non-moral issues.
THere are still some good old-time Baptist preachers out there, but there is a new bunch that have fallen off the right hand side of the world.

That's my point, excelman...there are SOME. They do not represent the whole denomination. My preacher would agree with that whole heartedly. BTW, I took my kids to Disneyworld during that time (we had a blast!).

[ Our church finance committee submits a detailed account of where all funds have gone to the church once a month in written form & is up for discussion in the business meeting we have once a month.]

and a portion of this goes to the SBA,or else your church would not be members, try getting reports of THAT.
Thats where they use the monies you donate with a giving,free heart to their political aspirations and movements.

quote:

Originally posted by smurph:
[ Our church finance committee submits a detailed account of where all funds have gone to the church once a month in written form & is up for discussion in the business meeting we have once a month.]

and a portion of this goes to the SBA,or else your church would not be members, try getting reports of THAT.
Thats where they use the monies you donate with a giving,free heart to their political aspirations and movements.

We give to Lottie Moon offering (world missions) & Annie Armstrong offering (North American missions), 100% of which goes to the mission field. We also take up an offering every Wednesday night that goes to a fund titled benevolence for what you could call local missions (help center, meals for shut-ins, $ for people caught in crisis situations, etc.).

Like I've said before, show me a church and I will show you a business with a steeple.
oh, Amen.

Smurph, there just are not any secret funds. People at my church are not afraid of accountability & I doubt we are original or unusual in that. If you are doing something with church funds that is wrong, you WILL be held accountable for that by the church.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Knowitall:
Like I've said before, show me a church and I will show you a business with a steeple.
oh, Amen.

If you mean by that that most are run responsibly, thank you.

Gotta jet guys...talk more later.

Joy, you seem like a nice person and I really am not trying to offend anyone with this but I dont believe in church. I think that somewhere, many many years back the church went way bad. Im not talkin about fifty years ago, I mean back in the Roman times. If you ever want your mind blown away read Fossilized Customs by Lew White. A friend gave me that book several years ago and it just backed up what I had figured out on my own.
Stepping of my soapbox now, sorry.

The church is the group of people and just like any group of people they're all different. Some churches are greedy, some are judgemental, others are controlling and cultish. However, there are also churches that are nothing more than a group of people who want to meet and worship. The members go not because they'll feel guilty if they don't or because they want to appear religious, they go because they want to learn and be uplifted spiritually. Yes, there are still a few churches out there like that, you just have to look for them and not lump them in with the bad churches.

quote:

Smurph, there just are not any secret funds

joy I never said they were "secret funds",, just funds that are not being displayed as completely honest. Ask your minister what the requirements for a church to be recognized and part of the Southern Baptist Convention.
How else do you think the colleges are funded, the hospitals, the list goes on and on. And to that list goes the courting of politicians and certain select political movements.

quote:

How else do you think the colleges are funded, the hospitals, the list goes on and on.

A lot of that is from private donations from wealthy people.

This seems to be a recurring topic, and Perhaps this SECULAR HUMANIST should stay out of it, but this is a direct link to the Statement of Principals of the Unitarian Universalist Association. http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html

It is NOT A CHURCH. It is a religion. If you Google Unitarian Universalist Home, you will find UUA organizations that ARE churches. In fact there is a UUA Buhddist association.

The National Council of Churches revoked the membership of the UUA some years ago because the UUA does not require a profession of belief in the supernatural for membership in a congregation. It also PERMITS belief in a supernatural being, diety, angels, demons, ghosts, goblins and leprechauns, BUT IT'S UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL.

Smurph, what I am trying to say is that this is not something anyone in a Southern Baptist Church (pastor, deacon, finance committee, whoever) would feel the need to keep secret. I don't generally keep the financial report; so I cannot give you an exact figure, although I can safely assume that if there is a donation, it is minimal & I don't have a problem with it. I do look at the report as the finance committee chairman goes over it during the business meeting because even though it's incredibly boring , they genuinely want and need our imput. People who are genuine in their relationship with God WANT to be held accountable because they understand that they are not perfect.

If anyone reading this is a Christian & attending a church that is not genuinely seeking God's will, I hope I'm not overstepping in encouraging you to visit other churches. I grew up in a church that was the total opposite of the one I attend now. It's a miracle I ever stepped foot back in one at all, but I am so thankful I did because God drastically changed my life.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Knowitall:
Joy, you seem like a nice person and I really am not trying to offend anyone with this but I dont believe in church. I think that somewhere, many many years back the church went way bad. Im not talkin about fifty years ago, I mean back in the Roman times. If you ever want your mind blown away read Fossilized Customs by Lew White. A friend gave me that book several years ago and it just backed up what I had figured out on my own.
Stepping of my soapbox now, sorry.

That's cool. I'm not offended. We are blessed to live in a country where we are free to believe what we believe.

History definately contains crazy zealots, but we also need to be careful about rewriting history to suit our beliefs. There have also been great men and women of the faith that made positive contributions in our history. To ignore the positive & magnify the negative is not an honest depiction. I'm not saying that is what anyone here is doing, just making the point.