Right, Hippiegirl..I agree
When God finished his creation, the Bible says, He looked at what He had created and said "This is good"
God's creation was good, it was man that changed things.
He created them male and female..not male and male...nor female and female...if He had, we wouldn't be here today debating over it.
quote:that is my reason for believing it is not a birthright, but a lifestyle.
How correct you are! Stupid is a chosen lifestyle!
We must choose between gentlemen wearing white powdered wigs two centuries ago or tarts in pink wigs today.
hippie, I understand what you are saying, but we now live in a broken world due to sin, which of course began with Adam's and Eve's sins. Things (many of them physical manifestations) that did not exist before sin exist now as a result of living in a broken world.
I think God sees many things as an abomination that exist in our broken world. So, even though I am certain of what the Bible says on these subjects, I can't claim to know whether or not the root causes of homosexuality could be a physical predisposition to it. Know what I mean, Vern?
I think God sees many things as an abomination that exist in our broken world. So, even though I am certain of what the Bible says on these subjects, I can't claim to know whether or not the root causes of homosexuality could be a physical predisposition to it. Know what I mean, Vern?
quote:Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
[QUOTE]that is my reason for believing it is not a birthright, but a lifestyle.
How correct you are! Stupid is a chosen lifestyle![quote]
You stupid [quote from another thread]
neal, 'stupid' seems to be a favorite word of yours. were you called that a lot as a child?
try for more complimentary words, you'll feel better for it. bless your heart.
quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:
hippie, I understand what you are saying, but we now live in a broken world due to sin, which of course began with Adam's and Eve's sins. Things (many of them physical manifestations) that did not exist before sin exist now as a result of living in a broken world.
I think God sees many things as an abomination that exist in our broken world. So, even though I am certain of what the Bible says on these subjects, I can't claim to know whether or not the root causes of homosexuality could be a physical predisposition to it. Know what I mean, Vern?
hey joy, good to hear from you! (love your new avatar!)
most gays i know say that they were 'born that way'. supposing that were true...then they would be as any single person, and should abstain from sex with their 'partner'. the Bible clearly says that fornication is a sin. but the Bible also condemns same sex couples, so that should put an end to it. personally, it only matters to me if it matters to God.
God knew thru time that some would fall into these temptations. any way you look at it, the Bible still calls it an abomination, which means the very aspect of it is evil.
God speaks clearly on many sins. but He specifically noted this as an abomination. that very fact should be enough for anyone to 'flee'.
Thanks!
I agree, but when someone tells us that they have as much trouble saying no to the same sex as we do saying no to the opposite sex, we need to hear them. I think our words (any Christian's), even when meant well, must hurt when we don't acknowledge their words, the truth of their existence.
When they try to help us understand and we say that can't be, that's like a slap in the face. They are thinking "Yes, it can be. It is. It is my life." Too often we tell them that there is no physical predisposition to homosexuality when we can't say that for sure.
I cannot imagine dealing with homosexuality or being faced with the choice to embrace it or flee from it. Therefore, I am not qualified to tell them how to deal with it. I know you are just pointing the way to the only One that can help (if they want it of course) & that's fine.
I CAN see how difficult it would be to have to flee from a relationship with the opposite sex though. I think that I could if God said to, but it would be very very hard. I just think we all need to remember that when we discuss this subject.
JMHO
I agree, but when someone tells us that they have as much trouble saying no to the same sex as we do saying no to the opposite sex, we need to hear them. I think our words (any Christian's), even when meant well, must hurt when we don't acknowledge their words, the truth of their existence.
When they try to help us understand and we say that can't be, that's like a slap in the face. They are thinking "Yes, it can be. It is. It is my life." Too often we tell them that there is no physical predisposition to homosexuality when we can't say that for sure.
I cannot imagine dealing with homosexuality or being faced with the choice to embrace it or flee from it. Therefore, I am not qualified to tell them how to deal with it. I know you are just pointing the way to the only One that can help (if they want it of course) & that's fine.
I CAN see how difficult it would be to have to flee from a relationship with the opposite sex though. I think that I could if God said to, but it would be very very hard. I just think we all need to remember that when we discuss this subject.
JMHO
[quote]I CAN see how difficult it would be to have to flee from a relationship with the opposite sex though. I think that I could if God said to, but it would be very very hard.[quote]
i believe this is the crux of any sin. God makes a way of escape. for evey sin. every time. for every one...hard on each of us, but able to be done. we should all strive to attain this thru Him. and thank God for new mercies every morning.
i believe this is the crux of any sin. God makes a way of escape. for evey sin. every time. for every one...hard on each of us, but able to be done. we should all strive to attain this thru Him. and thank God for new mercies every morning.
quote:Originally posted by logical:
Gay people are merely an artifact of creation. God knows this, he designed it. :-)
Uh...excuse me? Isn't Jesus the one that called it an abomination?
quote:Originally posted by TheNightCrow:
He's about as bad as that goofball who tried to say Tinky Winky was gay because he carried a purse. Who was that? John Hagee? He's definitely a nut!
Ha Ha I remember that my Mom thought I should have been shot for letting my daughter watch that show!
quote:Originally posted by Taciturn:quote:Originally posted by logical:
Gay people are merely an artifact of creation. God knows this, he designed it. :-)
Uh...excuse me? Isn't Jesus the one that called it an abomination?
I don't think Jesus ever mentioned homosexuality in the Bible.
Jesus calling "it" an "abomination"? Are you daft?
That is out of Leviticus, one of the books cobbled together to make the Priestly Crew look extra holy during the Babylonian Captivity!
Hero of Genesis: Abraham. Hero of Exodus: Moses, of the Tribe of Levi. Hero of D.: Aaron and the Tribe of Levi. Hero of Lev: Aaron, and his kinsmen. Joshua: Joshua, etc.
The Levites won the battle for control, after having lost it under David and his successors. The cultic centers at Shiloh, Mt. Gerosham, Mt. Nebo, etc. were torn down in favor of the Temple at Jerusalem, with the priests firmly in charge.
Jesus was of the Tribe of Judah, like David, he did not care much for the priests, the scribes, and we know what the Roman puppet high priest and Sanhedrin did to him under the Roman "law".
The only thing I can recall offhand Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ saying about sex at all was to the woman taken in adultery: "cast the first stone" and "go and sin no more." He also had a comeback about adultery being in the heart and not in the flesh, too.
Questionable texts of no more final edition antiquity than ca. 600 BC or synoptic Gospels, your choice; I'll go with the Synoptic Gospels, myself.
It's like men with white powdered wigs or women with cathouse decor on her TV stage and pink wigs: your choice. I'll go with the powdered wig crowd myself!
That is out of Leviticus, one of the books cobbled together to make the Priestly Crew look extra holy during the Babylonian Captivity!
Hero of Genesis: Abraham. Hero of Exodus: Moses, of the Tribe of Levi. Hero of D.: Aaron and the Tribe of Levi. Hero of Lev: Aaron, and his kinsmen. Joshua: Joshua, etc.
The Levites won the battle for control, after having lost it under David and his successors. The cultic centers at Shiloh, Mt. Gerosham, Mt. Nebo, etc. were torn down in favor of the Temple at Jerusalem, with the priests firmly in charge.
Jesus was of the Tribe of Judah, like David, he did not care much for the priests, the scribes, and we know what the Roman puppet high priest and Sanhedrin did to him under the Roman "law".
The only thing I can recall offhand Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ saying about sex at all was to the woman taken in adultery: "cast the first stone" and "go and sin no more." He also had a comeback about adultery being in the heart and not in the flesh, too.
Questionable texts of no more final edition antiquity than ca. 600 BC or synoptic Gospels, your choice; I'll go with the Synoptic Gospels, myself.
It's like men with white powdered wigs or women with cathouse decor on her TV stage and pink wigs: your choice. I'll go with the powdered wig crowd myself!
quote:Originally posted by logical:
Gay people are merely an artifact of creation. God knows this, he designed it. :-)
quote:Originally posted by Taciturn:
Uh...excuse me? Isn't Jesus the one that called it an abomination?
quote:Originally posted by TheNightCrow:
I don't think Jesus ever mentioned homosexuality in the Bible.
Lev. 18:22-Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Though the word homosexuality is not used it’s saying that a man shall not have intercourse with a man as he would with a woman. As controversial as this subject is, the Bible is very explicit in what it says. There is no way that this passage can be construed to say other than what it does.
I'm not trying to argue this issue.
I was sincere in my question to logical, as I am sincere in my reponse to your post.
Taciturn: you miss the factual error: Jesus did not say this. It is from the Book of Leviticus!
Jesus's sayings are in the Four Gospels, not in the Old Testament, or else I need to turn in all my licenses and certificates that the Bishop of Long Island signed!
Jesus's sayings are in the Four Gospels, not in the Old Testament, or else I need to turn in all my licenses and certificates that the Bishop of Long Island signed!
quote:Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
Taciturn: you miss the factual error: Jesus did not say this. It is from the Book of Leviticus!
Jesus's sayings are in the Four Gospels, not in the Old Testament, or else I need to turn in all my licenses and certificates that the Bishop of Long Island signed!
Jesus is the Word, & is One with God the Father. What Jesus speaks & what God speaks is one & the same. Jesus was also the I Am that spoke to Moses. Paul was an Apostle of Jesus who had all authority to speak in His name, & clearly stated that homosexuality is wrong. How can Jesus be seperated from His word or His apostles messages?
No need to turn in your license or certificate of whatever they are. We're adults & should be able to agree to disagree.
Again, I don't want to debate, I was more curious over logical's statement than anything.
Oh, BTW, no, I'm not daft but thank you for asking.
Sure. Right. How dare I be so presumptive. I have never studied the Xian religion and its history for years. Except that I have.
You do know that Leviticus is only about 2600 years old, don't you? It does not date from the time it purports to chronicle.
Paul's apostleship does not make him the equal of Our Lord in any fashion. Our bishops today are the successors of the Apostles, protected by the Holy Spirit to guard the faith, but that doesn't mean that a single one can't and won't go off the deep end every now and then or even teach something that is later renounced. It is up to the bishops to determine the faith in council and not for a small sect of dubious origin to say that whatever they like is and whatever they don't isn't.
If the bishops say around the world that Paul was talking about something other than what the Fundamentalist sexual fetishists say he was, then run with it, not what a woman in a pink wig and her lot say!
You do know that Leviticus is only about 2600 years old, don't you? It does not date from the time it purports to chronicle.
Paul's apostleship does not make him the equal of Our Lord in any fashion. Our bishops today are the successors of the Apostles, protected by the Holy Spirit to guard the faith, but that doesn't mean that a single one can't and won't go off the deep end every now and then or even teach something that is later renounced. It is up to the bishops to determine the faith in council and not for a small sect of dubious origin to say that whatever they like is and whatever they don't isn't.
If the bishops say around the world that Paul was talking about something other than what the Fundamentalist sexual fetishists say he was, then run with it, not what a woman in a pink wig and her lot say!
Bishops are appointed by man, apostles were appointed by God. I have about as much confidence in a bishop as I do my neighbors cat.
I don't care what the bishops say, they didn't write the Bible. As far as the pink haired woman & her lot, I don't like her & she doesn't speak for me.
You have your opinions, I have mine. It's needless to continue.
I don't care what the bishops say, they didn't write the Bible. As far as the pink haired woman & her lot, I don't like her & she doesn't speak for me.
You have your opinions, I have mine. It's needless to continue.
quote:Originally posted by excelman:
Heard tonight on "Countdown" the worst person in the world was some guy who works for that nutcase preacher Dobson.
Now he is calling on the Dobsonites to all pray for rain in Denver the night Obama speaks in the arena. (to rain on his parade so to speak)
Not enough that half the country is in a drought, can't pray for those people.
When will we have enough of these kind of people?
Countdown, Olberman, and MSNBC are all highly biased, hateful and untrustworthy and filled with bias and hate for anything Christian, Conservative or that claims to be unbiased in the news reporting arena. I would consider anything they say to be highly subjective and biased right from the get go.
Kinda funny how Karma comes around to bite you in the ass.
This Dobsonite wanted his deciples to pray for rain in Denver tonight in order to ruin the Democratic National Convention's big night.
It looks now like that hurricane will make landfall sometimes around Monday or Tuesday, and if so will bring heavy rain through the mid section of the country for several days.
Is this God's way of saying to keep him out of our partasin bickering, poetic justice, or just plain Karma ?
This Dobsonite wanted his deciples to pray for rain in Denver tonight in order to ruin the Democratic National Convention's big night.
It looks now like that hurricane will make landfall sometimes around Monday or Tuesday, and if so will bring heavy rain through the mid section of the country for several days.
Is this God's way of saying to keep him out of our partasin bickering, poetic justice, or just plain Karma ?
hahahahaha
Exc, it looks like the Dems have better shamans.
Jesus said practically nothing about homosexuals, but he did rant on and on about the evils of divorce. I wonder how many of the people here hammering on the homosexuals have been divorced?
DF
Exc, it looks like the Dems have better shamans.
Jesus said practically nothing about homosexuals, but he did rant on and on about the evils of divorce. I wonder how many of the people here hammering on the homosexuals have been divorced?
DF
excelman, does this mean God is a Democrat?
No, earthmomma. You know how God had to look away when Jesus took on all the sins of the world? I'm thinking politics gets the same response. 
Bread cast upon the waters. "You'll have whatever you say", goes on and on. Summed up in one word: karma - what goes around , comes around.
It's just coming round.
It's just coming round.
this is funny!!!
That's why half of us tune in.