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Question if a person does not believe in God or gods then why does it offend them when others do.I mentioned this before long ago but the city of Birmingham has a statue of the ancient roman god Vulcan.I do not believe in the old roman gods so this dosn`t bother me.I could care less.I have not written letters to the editors of newspapers or petitioned that it be taken down.I do not believe in it so it dosn`t bother me.Thats why I don`t believe that there are true atiests out there.In order to be offended something has to trigger a deep emotional response.If you didn`t believe in God then Christians or others of a religious background wouldn`t bother you.Just my thoughts And by the way my God will crush the FSM!! Big Grin Razzer
quote:
if a person does not believe in God or gods then why does it offend them when others do


ged,

I can't speak for all atheists, but for me, I am no offended in the belief in god. I realize many people are brought up that way, and believe in the same way they are Kentuckians and Republicans.

I am offended by deliberate ignorance. Fundamentalists of whatever religion are, by definition, deliberately ignorant. They reject reality, knowledge, science, and reason in favor of primitive superstition. The reason for society's recent exponential increase in intelligence is extra-somatic knowledge. That means knowledge that is not carried in our brains. Knowledge written down in books, on websites, on discs.

Fundies reject that knowledge. They only accept the alleged knowledge of their holy texts. They are a retarding influence on civilization.

I am only offended in your belief in god when it affects me negatively. The most casual glance at many posts on this forum demonstrates how that is rampant.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
I am offended by deliberate ignorance. Fundamentalists of whatever religion are, by definition, deliberately ignorant. They reject reality, knowledge, science, and reason in favor of primitive superstition. The reason for society's recent exponential increase in intelligence is extra-somatic knowledge. That means knowledge that is not carried in our brains. Knowledge written down in books, on websites, on discs.

Fundies reject that knowledge. They only accept the alleged knowledge of their holy texts. They are a retarding influence on civilization.
Hi Deep,

You complain when we quote Scripture from our Bible on the Forum. But, you have just quoted almost verbatim from your bible -- the Dawkins Bible of Atheism.

At least when we quote from our Bible, we show references so that folks know we have copied from the Bible.

You copy direct from your Dawkins Bible -- and don't even give your poor leader credit. How is he going to make more money if you keep stealing his material?

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
I respected what you have said up until you start accusing people of following Satan because they do not believe the same as you do. I have read nowhere that said Netracer was a Satanist. You are beginning to act just like Bill.


***

I am not accusing anyone, you are known by how you act and what you speak. Do you think it is a Christian who claims that God does not exist? Who, without influence by the devil would say that God does not exist? Life as we know it; is and was created by God and is influenced by several factors.

#1 - God influences some aspects of your life whether you believe in Him or not. (i.e. Salvation)
#2 - Satan influences some aspects, (i.e. 1 of those is the thought that God does not exist)!
#3 - You influence some aspects as well. (i.e. whether you will eat @ BK's or MC'D's)

The big picture is --- You can choose to follow God or you can choose to follow Satan. There is no middle ground when it comes to Salvation and Spiritual things.

Good day.
ST. Bill reads the World Nut Daily or whatever that little thing made up of opinion made up to resemble "news" -- that garbage from whence the current administration's talking points come; or so I would wager as his "secular" reading.
I would wager he was a die hard John Birch Newsletter back in the day as well!
Fundamentalists, as a rule, have no need of reading widely: it would upset their world to actually be informed.
There is a woman in a pink wig who tells them all that is good and holy in life and Rexella and Hal to fill in the gaps.
quote:
Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
Satan exists alright! Just look in the mirror and you'll see him. Satan, is not just a fallen angel, rather the mythic personification within our Id as Freud would term it, our desire for self-gratification above all else, to the extreme of us doing what our Freudian Superego tells us not to do.
The basic tenet of most Western thought is that we are free moral agents.
Satan most certainly did not write a word, the frequently gin-tossed (such a waste of talent when he went over to the neocons and dropped Ed Said on his deathbed) Chris Hitchens wrote his own stuff. Dr. Dawkins wrote his own stuff. Do you actually want "Lucifer Prince of Darkness" listed on the title pages of their works as "coauthor?"
We note that in the Old and New Testaments that Satan had no power over people except to tempt them, they did their own "sin" without him intervening except to play (pardon the pun) devil's advocate.
To reduce a deep premodern psychological insight such as Id, Ego and Superego in mythic terms is a grave disservice to the Bible. The Satan image is quite powerful and not as an agent of evil, rather as the negative force that we have inside our free will to choose between good and evil.
Even soi-disant "Satanists" do not believe in him as a supernatural entity with "powers"!
If any of you lower level readers have a problem, I am sorry, I do not know how else to frame this except in terms of Freud, to be honest. If you are too lazy to google then that is your problem.
This is comic book religion! You take one of the most powerful symbols in the entire canon of religious literature and turn it into something that Jack Chick can illustrate for you!
Even if the fallen angel Lucifer (Venus, the bright and shining morning star) did have any power on earth, did not St. Michael vanquish him according to holy writ? Now Michael is a most powerful archangel, and he is ready to intercede on your behalf in an emergency, but do not call upon him save in the most dire of straits!


***

Neal, I can see your point to an extent. But my questions to you are these.

Do you really think the story of JOB is a mytholgical fairy tale? If not, then can you see how Satan had an effect on him?

Do you think if a person says that God does not exist, He is or is not influenced by Satan? Do you really think it is of His own opinion? Explain to me in simple man terms why you think a man can come up with his own conclusions that God does not exist without influence by Satan.

If not then what is the job of Lucifer? (It is my understanding of Gods word Lucifer has come to steal, kill, lie and destroy humans) "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep." (John 10:10-11)

And to answer you question about the angel Michael. He could not do anything to Satan without being given the authority/power by God. Oh by the way, God says that Jesus will do the final vanquishing of Lucifer/Satan in the last days not Michael. So this would mean that Satan does still have power on the earth, in my view of Biblical terms. But you don't believe in the last days (Revelation of John), DO U? Just a few more words on Michael, I have read up on Him, I don't know much about this angel, never really been important to focus on an Angel so much (I like to Study Jesus), however what I can ascertain by my short studies of this angel, LDS believe him to be Adam in human form which is CRAZY, Jehovah's Witness believe him to be Jesus which in my understanding of who Jesus was and is; is crazy because no Angel is on the same level as Jesus or God. It is Biblical knowledge that Angels are created beings and Jesus & God are ever existant (Alpha & Omega)!

I must admit you have made a deep thinkers point in how Satan messes with us all. But to the more simpler minded people who are not on your level of intelligence we can see that in SIMPLE words -- Satan is the effecting producer of sin. With this being said, wouldn't it be a SIN to say God does not exist?

Looking forward to your (hopefully SIMPLE & easy to understand) reply.

Good day.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Satan is really god's cat.

Revelations is an allegory for a really stinky litterbox, Armageddon represents a hairball in your slippers, and the Four Horsemen are a litter of even more ingrates.

Satan's bad reputation is god's fault for not giving her a scratching post, so of course she uses his favorite leather chair.

DF


Aren't you just so deep?
Job is just weird! God and Lucifer have a bet on Job! This sets up God and Lucifer as equals. I do view it as a myth on perseverance. Actually, some scholars have viewed it as "the world's first novel."
Job is so old that it may predate Abraham! The Land of Uz is not known to have ever existed.
As per Michael, he is the leader of the Army of God, purely and simply, as presented in scripture and tradition, an archangel, along with several other archangels who tradition and holy writ identify, not pre-Jesus or pre-Adam or any of that nonsense the Mormen and JWs present.
Remember "and there was war in heaven . . . " Jewish tradition teaches that Satan/Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels, the planet Venus personified, the brightest "star" the ancients knew whose vanity to refuse to accept mankind over the angelic beings caused his downfall.
Much of what is in the Jewish and Christian mind about Satan is straight out of Persian Zoroastrianism where Ahura Mazda (Good Spirit) fights and wins against Ahriman (Shaitan) the evil counterpart. This dualism was fully realized in Gnosticism, where some were convinced that the Creator God was not the God of Love, but "an insane demiurge" and that Christ was the light and that the light would liberate us from the evil and darkness of the world.
Job is a story of a man who did not give up when faced with nearly crushing blows in his life. Frankly, it is ludicrous to think that God allowed one of his creations (Satan) to smash down Job's home and kill his children and livelihood over a bet! They are mere plot devices in the story, Job's children, no more important than his camels or sheep! Now that is weird. Why? Because they are not important to the story. They have no need for names, no more need than do his favorite camels!
What the story teaches us is not that Satan causes houses to cave in killing your children, but that the rain falls upon the just and the unjust alike and that "keep on trucking" is the correct motto for life!
I do not mess with demons and angels, myself, having had experiences that I attribute only supernatural intervention to having saved me when I called upon Michael. But I choose to not mess with demonology, fearing that a practice of it can warp a person's psyche.
Look, I am an Episcopalian. We, as a rule do not take most of the Old Testament as literal rules and fact, rather as hallowed by time, we concentrate on the Gospels alone, with even the Epistles given second string status to the Gospel, and Revelations being taken as mere prophetic warnings, not a framework for things we cannot know about such as a final judgment. We just trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in His words and example, the ancient apostolic faith as expressed in the Creeds and in the bishops to be guided by the Holy Spirit to ensure that orthodox teaching is made in their/His name.
Our motto is "Faith, reason, and tradition" with them about in that order of our importance placed on them. We also teach that "the holy scriptures contain all that is necessary to salvation" and we have no eschatology, preferring to concentrate on the here and now, having faith that God in His good time will effect the resurrection and judgment by whatever means He chooses. We care more about world hunger and HIV/AIDS ministries than we do in the correct interpretation of the Great White Throne and Bema Seat Judgments that others waste time and energy upon. We and our ecumenical partners, the UMC and ELCA are in union to battle the problems of the world and spirit and not to win a debating contest on Revelations.
Perhaps others feel that is their calling, but frankly, not us, we are too busy as a rule to judge the correct sexual habits of others or to go off on rants about end times.
Theologically, I still maintain that Job is outside every other piece of holy scipture in its presentation of God and Satan almost as drinking buddies just seeing who will win a bet!
quote:
Originally posted by Neal Hughes:


***

Good enough, I have heard/seen your view. You see Job differently than I. I see the story as truly Biblical and an semi-authoritive on (like you said) the perserverence in life no matter your pressures but unlike you, I see it a little more than just a moral study.

I see it as telling me that God has created all. I see it that God is in control of all and if we hope in Him we still have hope no matter the blows we face. I see it as that Satan is an effecting entity in certain aspects as to why some things, not all things, happen in our lives. I see it as the truth according to God or he would not have wanted it told to generation after generation. It would have disappeared from time if it had not been of more relevance than just a moral code. I also see it as God telling us not to trust completly in our friends view of our lives for most of the time they are accusers and really don't have our best interest @ heart. But God is showing that He does by the story of Job.

It definitly shows that Satan is not just a figment of our imagination but actually it shows that Satan does battle against you to God, and it definitly shows that Satan is always trying to detroy you and your belief in God and if it were not for God you would be completly destroyed with no hope.

Just one more thing to explain my Fundy view as you and many others have called it, I view the Bible as Gods word. Nothing more and Nothing less, it is fact! I believe in Love and God is Love. But along with this, I also believe that God is God and He will explain the word to us if we ignore the "Rants and Raves" of Pink wig wearing, gauwty diamond flashing prosperity preachers, and the like but I also believe that God does prosper people according to His grace and not cause I send in my "thousand dollar seed". I plant my seed by sowing the literal and spiritual meaning of Gods word to the best of my ability, I tithe to my church not because they tell me to, but because I know that it will truly help someone in our community. It will continue my church to function in Gods way according to how the Holy Spirit leads. As far as the homosexual thing, God is the ultimate judge, He speaks of these things in His word and while some may take it as just something to read, I and many others take it as Gods HOLY and TRUE word. IF a man says otherwise he calls God a liar! Which in my opinion and Gods is a sin.

Satan is real according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and in John; Jesus speaks of the temptations he faced by a real fallen angel named Lucifer. This was not just a mere reflection of our own "Freudian" self absorbed lives but a view of a supertnatural power which effects us more than we can control. With this being said we have God as in the story of Job not "Michael", coming to the rescue when all is said and done!

One more thing on Michael, it is also believed by many Christians and Jews that Michael was actually the protector of Israel. Are you a part of Israel? There were many attributes that is said to belong to Michael, (1 being as you have said; being in command of Gods army) however in my limited studies of Angels, I can't for the life of me see where the Bible says to call on the name of Michael for help! My Bible tells me to call on the name of Jesus and Jesus alone!

Thanks for talking with me, Good day.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Satan is really god's cat.

Revelations is an allegory for a really stinky litterbox, Armageddon represents a hairball in your slippers, and the Four Horsemen are a litter of even more ingrates.

Satan's bad reputation is god's fault for not giving her a scratching post, so of course she uses his favorite leather chair.

DF


LOL!
The Bible also tells you not to round the corners of your beard, not to mix fibers in your clothes, and not to harness an ox with an ass, not to eat pork or oysters or even shrimp. It also tells you to be in the Gospel how to interact with the people around you: summed up in "Blessed are the peaecemakers for they shall be called the Children of God." It also tells you to render unto Caesar that which is his and to God that which is HIS, not to become Caesar.
The Church has surplanted "Israel" as a hereditary caste, we are made a royal priesthood the adopted sons and daughters of God the Father through baptism. That is why baptism is called a "new birth." The outward and visible sign is the washing of flesh with water, the inward and invisible is an act of grace that washes away sin and makes us a member of the universal church, the heirs of Israel.

p.s. Most of Job is in the form of a poem followed by prose sections that set up the next lines of poetry. "This is the way the world ends, this is the way the world ends, with a whimper and not a bang." Now that is T.S. Eliot, but some may hallow it in the way distant future and make it religious doctrine, arguing until the cows come home that the earth must end with a bang.

The Old Testament as we know it is not that old. It was settled by scholars in Babylon about 600 BC. That is why the commentary in the midrash and Talmud are in Aramaic and not Hebrew: Hebrew had ceased to anything more than a liturgical language by that time. Even Our Lord knew the Psalms in Aramaic: "Eli, Eli,Lama lama sabachtani, etc." is an Aramaic translation of a Hebrew Psalm. "Talitha cum!" is Our Lord's command for the dead girl to arise: Aramaic.
But that is just "man history" and has no bearing on a book that did not fall down from Heaven bound in cheap leatherette and printed on onion skin paper.
Reading scripture as always literal is a modern innovation, a tradition unknown to the Church Fathers who had no convenient New Testaments to go by, rather the tradition of the apostolic succession as to what was canon and what was not, later codified in the 300s by a vote!
Jubilees and Enoch out. Polycarp out. Revelations in. Edras, Judith, Bel and the Dragon in at first, then out for the Protestants, but not for the Roman Church, the Eastern, Oriental or Coptic Churches.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
God and Lucifer have a bet on Job!


Isn't gambling a sin?
Hi Crusty,

When one already knows the outcome, as did God, then there is no gamble involved. It is much like when we let our children play a little game -- and we know they are wrong -- but, we let them run the course so that they will know it is wrong.

God had no doubts about the outcome of Job's trials. Yet, He knew the value of the lesson that mankind would learn by watching Satan's futile attempts.

No gamble, not gambling -- an assured outcome.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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O Holy One, St. Bill of Silver Lake, what was God doing hanging around with Satan in the first place? Wasn't he already cast out of heaven?

Stick with Jack Chick. I will with people who have actually studied theology and not comic book artists with a fetish for the most lurid parts of the Old Testament.

It is a free country -- barely, but still -- and until your theocracy comes to pass, and it will be over a revolution, I assure you, I shall interpret whatever I wish when I wish and no one will stop me.

Have you renounced Satan and all his pomps? Are you in love and charity with your brothers and sisters? Have you confessed your sins and made humble entreats to God Almighty to forgive them, trusting not in your own merit, but in the Grace of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? Have you confessed what you have done and what you have left undone? That you are a lamb strayed from the fold, a sinner of Christ Jesus' own redeeming? Are you prepared to celebrate the sacred mysteries of the altar and partake of the Body and Blood of Our Lord so that He might dwell in you and you in Him?

If you are, then draw nigh -- Jesus Christ our Pascal Lamb is sacrificed for us! Allelulia! Allelulia! Allelulia! Christ is dead, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison.
Hi Neal,

You tell us, "The Church has surplanted (sic) 'Israel' as a hereditary caste, we are made a royal priesthood the adopted sons and daughters of God the Father through baptism. That is why baptism is called a 'new birth.' The outward and visible sign is the washing of flesh with water, the inward and invisible is an act of grace that washes away sin and makes us a member of the universal church, the heirs of Israel."

Then, you are telling us that God is a liar. You are describing what is known as Replacement Theology; which teaches that God has replaced Israel as His chosen people with the Christian church. Sorry, my Friend, but the Bible teaches that this is not true.

Genesis 17:7-8, God makes a covenant with Abraham, "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Now, this Scripture passage tells me that God made an EVERLASTING covenant with Abraham and his descendants, the Israelites. I don't know about you; but, the word EVERLASTING means to me, well, ever lasting, always, never to end, eternal. He promised His covenant, His contract, with the people of Israel that they would be His people and Israel would be their land -- everlasting.

In Genesis 28:13-15, God tells Jacob (Israel), ". . .I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants will also be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."

Then, in Leviticus 26:11-14, God tells the Israelites, through Moses, "Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people."

However, God goes on to warn the Israelites, in Leviticus 26:14-16, "But if you do not obey Me and do not carry out all these commandments, if, instead, you reject My statutes, and if your soul abhors My ordinances so as not to carry out all My commandments, and so break My covenant, I, in turn, will do this to you."

In the following verses, God tells the people of Israel the punishments they will bring upon themselves by not obeying His commandments -- which they have, and still do, suffered.

Then, in Leviticus 26:42-46, God once again assures the Israelites, "Then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land. For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes. Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God. But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the LORD."

And, in Leviticus 26:46, we are told, "These are the statutes and ordinances and laws which the LORD established between Himself and the sons of Israel through Moses at Mount Sinai."

Yes, God chose the Jews to be His special people, for His own reason. And He made an everlasting covenant with the people of Israel. God is not a fickle God; He does not change. He is immutable, unchanging, and His covenant He does not break. The people of Israel are His special people -- and He tells Abraham, and us, in Genesis 12:3, "And I will bless those who bless you, and the ones who curses you I will curse." Personally, I would not like to be on the receiving end of that promise.

No, Neal, the Christian church, the body of Christian believers, is the Bride of Christ -- a special place we hold -- just as the Israelites hold the special position of being God's chosen people. The two are separate and distinct. However, one day, through the trials of the Tribulation, a large number of God's people, the Israelis, will turn to Jesus Christ as their long awaited Messiah -- and we will all come together in His Millennial Kingdom as Christian brothers and sisters. Yet, they will still be God's special people; we, the church, will never replace them.

And, God help the nations and the people who try to take the land of Israel from the Israelis; God's chosen people in God's promised land. All the peace accords are just spitting into the wind; for we know that real peace will not come to the land of Canaan, Israel, until Jesus Christ returns and sits upon the throne of David in Jerusalem for one thousand years.

I pray this clears up some of your misconceptions about the people and the land of Israel. Both are still very special to God -- and as He promised in Genesis 17; His covenant with the people and the land is everlasting, eternal.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Gabrielle29:
Pero los cobardes e indredulos, los abominables, los fornicarios y hechiceros, los idolatras y todos los mentirosos tendran su parte en el lago que arde con fuego y azufre, que es la muerte segunda.
Hey y'all,

Now we know that Gabrielle is pentecostal -- she is speaking in tongues!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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LOL, Bill, that is for our favorite atheist, Neal...a little excerpt from Revelation

Have never spoken in tongues...I asked the Lord one time if he wanted me to speak in tongues or if it was for real...He gave me 2 words,,,and it was 15 yrs before I got the interpretation. I heard a man on tv one day use the words. I learned it meant.."Jesus Christ" in hebrew....Yoshua Hamshia.(sp) THen i realized that is really the only word we need. I told God to just give me and others words we can understand. I later went on to teach myself spanish...only to use on missionary trips. Big Grin
Yep, that is exactly what I am saying. That through baptism we are the literal adopted sons of God the Father. I will not deny the Hebrews "special place," but we no longer live under Jewish law, rather grace.
We are all high priests, not just a selected man of the the branch of Aaron.
Believe whatever you like, just keep it out of schools funded by the public coffers, and try not to frighten the children or horses on the streets.
Your agenda is not religious, as much as you might believe, it is the dying throes of reaction to Modernity with all the dispensation and Rapture and Tribulation and Republican right wing politics thrown in for good measure.
Have you made a good confession today? Are you prepared to partake of the Body and Blood of Our Lord so that He might dwell in you and you in HIM?
Have you put as much effort in uplifting the sick and hungry in body and spirit today as you have arguing over angels dancing on the heads of pins or whatever your latest scholastic fetish is?
I'm not a rabbi, I can't speak for the Jewish nation, only friends and acquaintances, and I hold them all in deep esteem and value their religion and cherish their perseverance in times so often facing extinction. However, I do not have a fetish for their faith.
This is the USA and you are free to preach all the heresy and dogma that is repugnant to common sense and the apostolic faith you wish. Just be glad that your lot are no longer driven from parish to parish with whips for preaching heresy! Oh for a return to the heresy and Test Acts at times! Just for a few weeks, that ought to suffice.
To counter The Unutterable Digrammaton's latest; may I simply submit a single verse:

Gal. 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Looks like that kinda does it in for the Jews being chosen over Xians and women having no place in the clergy as far as I am concerned. . . Put that in our pipe and smoke it St. Bill of Silver Lake.
Aren't these points about the old versus new testament moot? I read that the Quran was the latest and final revelation of god. Muhammed was his prophet. Doesn't the Quran even mention the jews and the christians
(people of the book)? I thought that the bible was yhe equivalent of outdated software. I mean they are all the same god, right? So why are some of you still talking about the bible? I still think all religions are false premises, but if we are talking logic, it seems we would look to islam before christianity as islam is said to be the latest word from god.
quote:
Originally posted by Netracer41:
Aren't these points about the old versus new testament moot? I read that the Quran was the latest and final revelation of god. Muhammed was his prophet. Doesn't the Quran even mention the jews and the christians
(people of the book)? I thought that the bible was yhe equivalent of outdated software. I mean they are all the same god, right? So why are some of you still talking about the bible? I still think all religions are false premises, but if we are talking logic, it seems we would look to islam before christianity as islam is said to be the latest word from god.


***

Netracer, !NO! the god of Islam is not the God of the Jews and Christianity. You have to study the history of both. If and when you do study them, some keys to look for are as follows.

#1 - Who is Jesus the Christ to the nation of Islam?
#2 - Does Jesus the Christ come second to Muhammed?
#3 - Does the muslim religion deny the deity of Jesus the Christ?
#4 - What is the muslim religions way of salvation?
#5 - Did Muhammed give his life for his "god" not his cause?
#6 - Where did this religion come from?
#7 - Why does one "Christian view" uphold the claim the God has found favor in the Jews and the other "Muslim" deny this?
#8 - Why is this story told from the Ishmael descendant view instead of the Isaac descendant.
#9 - Why did Muhammed come fighting with a sword and Jesus come with words of LOVE?
#10- Why does the Quran speak excessively about jihad? Please read the following article in my next post about jihad.

And there are many more than these. You see the problem with how many in the world view things is obvious. They go on hear/say & have not studied the 2 side by side. They go by what others have said and do not allow God's Holy Spirit to lead them. Your spiritual walk with God comes from God, not what I say, not what Bill says, and definitly not what atheists say but what God's Holy Spirit say to you.

Read them both and trust in the True God to open your heart so you can see the truth.

Good day.
quote:
I read that the Quran was the latest and final revelation of god. Muhammed was his prophet. Doesn't the Quran even mention the jews and the christians
(people of the book)? I thought that the bible was yhe equivalent of outdated software. I mean they are all the same god, right? So why are some of you still talking about the bible? I still think all religions are false premises, but if we are talking logic, it seems we would look to islam before christianity as islam is said to be the latest word from god.


Islam isn't a continuation of Christianity. Mohammad created Islam as a way to build a loyal army and conquer the Middle East 600 years after Christ. The teachings are the exact opposite, where Christ taught forgiveness and love your enemy, Mohammad taught to dominate and destroy the enemy.

The major difference is that with Islam, you die for God. With Christianity, God died for you.
http://www.fatherzakaria.net/b...f/pdf/30-Episode.pdf

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/990

http://www.carm.org/islam/Bible_koran_diff.htm

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One questions you have to ask yourself about The Bible and Quran; -- Why has it been proven that the Bible's History aligns with World History and in fact was found to be written many, many years before the Quran was ever thought of?

Just a rational question to think about.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Easy, Braylan.

It does not.

DF


You ignorance of History and of the Bible are obvious! The fact that the Bible speaks of Kings and Queens of that era are perfectly viewable.

The middle east was full of People like, King Nebukanezzar, Ceasar of Rome, Pontius Pilotus, all in whcih the Bible speaks of and also Historians of that era speak of as well but none of the Quran!

It is like the Muslims did not exist until Muhammed came along in 575 - 632 a.d.

Go figure!

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