SAVE LIVES ON CYPRESS CREEK!

The drawing below I snagged off of facebook. It is a simple plan but yet one I think would work and be cost effective. It would eliminate the current that pulls you under. Sometimes the best ideas are just too simple for some. The city should have been working on this since 1982, when the first victim was taken,..... 

The City is deciding to settle with the Pannell family in the amount of $61,000. How many more death's and settlements will it take for the City to apply this easy cheap fix.

How many more idiots that can't read will run this dam?

Sorry. I'm with Blind baby on this one.

There's nothin' but low head dams where I'm from, all along the Housatonic River.

The power authority that owns the dams puts up signs way up river warning of the dams' presence, there's float lines strung across the river in the immediate vicinity of the dam and another snag line right by the edge.

  Many dams have a fence across the top to keep canoers or kayakers from actually topping the dam. The fences are also danger-signed with a graphic illustrating the hydraulic on the downside of the dam.

Even with the warning signs and snags and fences-we still had a Darwin Award winner a couple years back manage to get himself and his canoe wedged into a partially open spillway door (the suction got 'im) and drowned. The only reason the PA workers found him was because a water level alarm was going off cause the spillway was clogged with said Darwin Award winner.

Same result but the power authority wasn't liable on account of they had already taken reasonable care to warn of the danger and placed physical obstructions.

Ya wanna save lives on the creek?

Educate people of the dangers of low head dams. Make a PSA and air it regularly,

RP, I think there will always be people who think the signs don't apply to them. The latest victim wasn't wearing a life jacket. Yes, I understand those don't prevent drowning in many instances due to excess buoyancy at these dams/weirs. I still can't imagine getting on a watercraft without wearing one. Almost without exception, these victims were very young men. If Mr. Leavitt's design will prevent another death, I do support it, but yes it's social Darwinism--sad to say--much like car surfing.

Ah yes.

Young male daredevils.

I remember car surfing. In my case it was van-surfing.

There is nothing quite as exhilarating as having to grab onto the bottom edge of a low railroad bridge at 40 MPH to keep from getting decapitated and surviving to drop back down to the roadway.

Chinese fire drills in said van on the interstate at 70+ MPH are interesting, too. Especially when you end up with a different driver.

Never did quite figure out how we managed that.

Yes... lets stop it... arrest the people that are enjoying kayak, canoeing, swimming in the Cypress Creek. Haul them off to jail and that will prevent the deaths. Also sell the warning sign for scrap metal. Better yet anyone on the tennessee river at mcfarland park that does not have a life jacket on, drag them off to jail. Lets make it even more better, you drown, you can be sued by the rescuers for time, use of equipment and a fine for that person not wearing a life jacket.

Time to get real,  the benefits of going down the cypress creek there is always a chance of some event happening. A tree could fall in the water trapping someone. A snake could come and decide to ride in the canoe with you. Deaths occur on the highways and streets, but we can't tear them down. Always be prepared.

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Or you could always get hammered at 1:30 in the afternoon and post on the TD forums!

We might as well get rid of traffic signals, speed limits, air traffic controllers, building codes, drug laws, and whatever else makes our lives a little safer; to follow your logic. Low head dams are killing people all across the nation, they are poorly designed and can easily be remedied.

I think this is a serious issue. I am all for the city spending money to fix this dam. I agree with the signage and agree that people do dumb things but I hope we remedy it.

Low head dams aren't killing people.

I've never once in my whole life been chased or accosted by anything even remotely resembling a low head dam. And I was surrounded by them.

Dummies who disregard warning signs are killing themselves.

Maybe they should do like the Chinese user manuals for stuff say:

"Warning! Do not use for the other use."

Personally I think part of the problem with people these days is that there are too many warning signs and laws against stuff that should be just plain common sense. And then there are the lawsuits because of that stuipdity. And the idiots frickin' WIN.

  We have been messing with the process of natural selection for too long and now we have whole generations of people who are too dumb to tie their own shoelaces without help and therapy later on down the road to deal with the *******g trauma.

Take away all the warnings.

You speed down a road without looking where yer going and hit something big that doesn't move? Ya needed taking out anyway.

  You light up a smoke in an explosive environment (as I've seen many morons smoking at gas station fuel islands while pumping gas)-BOOM! It woulda happened sooner or later anyway. Better to get it out of the way early.

  Ya stick a fork in an electrical outlet and do the electric cha-cha until ya drop?

  ZORCH! One less moron in the way.

Ya kick a Grizzly bear inna nuts and can't run fast enough or far enough?  Too bad. CHOMP! Ya shoulda though of that before ya bought them new sneakers.

  Ride your motorcycle like you're still in your car surrounded by a metal cage and spontaneously create impressionistic art across a highway? SPLISH! One less crayon-eater.

Oh sure it'll be a bit chaotic while the process gets underway again, but if you're smart and paying attention-you'll avoid death because you'll more'n likely see it coming and jump outta the way.

Then eventually all that's left are the smart people and stuff like this won't happen so much and then if it does-it's truly an 'accident.'.

This is by far the best idea I have seen posted on this subject.

I have canoed Cypress Creek and always run over the dam. Sometimes I make it fine, sometimes I don't, but I have been in far greater problems than any I expect would come up on Cypress.

No, I NEVER put on a life jacket, I may die the next time I go out in a canoe, but so far, so good.

I like the idea of putting down the rip-rap, and the signs are ok, but since that creek has precious few "rapids" to run, going over the dam should always be left as an option to the canoe er.

LETS GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR PERSONAL LIVES, LET US DRIVE OUR CARS WITHOUT SEATBELTS, SKI WITHOUT A JACKET (I like a belt), RIDE A WATERCRAFT OR IN A BOAT WITHOUT LIFE JACKETS, AND FOR GOODNESS SAKE, LET US DRINK BEER AND DRIVE A BOAT, OR RUN RAPIDS AND GO OVER A LOW WATER DAM IF WE DAMM WELL WANT TO.

The government has lots of better stuff to do , like re-instituting the New Deal , and fighting with the Republicans to prevent them from completely ruining our country. THEY SHOULD STAY OUT OF OUR PERSONAL DAY BY DAY LIVES.

RP touched on one of my favs--smoking at gas stations. If I see it, I just drive on. There was once a topic on here about it and some of the posters contended it was perfectly safe. Well, let them try it, I'm gonna try to hang in for a few more years.

I agree with you Firenze 100%. I am a smoker but I am blessed with common sense.

Will never happen, we've let it go too far.  The dumb folks are producing at a much higher rate than the educated folks.  By sheer numbers we are doomed.  Darwinism no longer applies due to government intervention.....

You should also add smoking while wearing an O2 mask. A man parked next to me not long ago got into his new pickup wearing an O2 tank in a sling, with the tubes going into his nose, and lit a cigarette first thing. All I could think of is "I hope my tax dollars are not paying for his O2)

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*a la Tommy Chong*

"Oh-ho-ho-ho-ho!*

Can you say "fireball", man?

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Heheh. I'm not too sure 'bout them "educated" folks, there, Cap'n.

Last couple guys I saw smoking at the fuel pump under the big "Flammable-No Smoking-Turn Off Engine" sign were obvious white-collar guys wearing neckties and yapping on cell phones (another neat way to ignite fuel vapors!).

"Educated" is kinda a relative term.

I've always thought the idea of a cell phone igniting vapors was out there, at least in regards to the chances of it happening.  There is a better chance of the dome light in your car igniting the vapors when you open your door, or the starter when you crank the car.  

Smoking, however, involves that open flame issue......  

Me too JT. I could see if the weather and other conditions were just right that static electricity would be more likely than a cell phone but I have witnessed neither and am in no hurry to either.

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More than once, citizens have appeared before the City Council to point out the dangers inherent in the weir. Several years ago, the City Council considered, but rejected a proposal for modifying the Cypress Creek weir in the manner shown in the drawing you posted. They decided it was too expensive and was not necessary. It seems that they are more disposed to spend money for more important things, such as the $80,000 expended on  green concrete tinting that allegedly was used to color the walking/biking trails at Deibert Park, but that is not even discernible to the eye.

The Corps of Engineers has produced a film called "The Drowning Machine," which shows actual film footage of people and small water craft caught in the "hydraulic current" generated by dams and weirs with steep downstream faces.  In some of these instances, the victims drowned.  The Bureau of Reclamation has modified many of its low-head dams in the western U.S. to mitigate this hazard.

It is time that Florence got with the program! More delay will ensure more deaths at the deadly Cypress Creek weir.

Incidentally,  the Cypress Creek weir was illegally constructed under the aegis of the (now disbanded) Board of Water and Sewer Commissioners with full knowledge that it would be illegal to construct it without a permit. The Board was required to apply for an after-the-fact permit.  In comments on the permit application,  TVA and the Sierra Club pointed out  safety hazards associated with such weirs.  The Corps should have required the city to remove it, but a deal was struck with the U.S. Attorney whereby the city would be allowed to keep the weir but would pay a fine of $5,000. a pretty small cost of doing illegal business!  Under current regulatory regimes, a fine for this kind of flagrant violation would be much greater.

Over 5 years before the weir was illegally constructed, in a meeting with TVA, the Corps of Engineers and the Fish & Wildlife Service, the Board of Water and Sewer Commissioners was told in no uncertain terms that a permit would be required for constructing a weir across Cypress Creek, which is a navigable water of the United States and subject to permitting requirements of both the River and Harbor Act of 1899 and the Clean Water Ace.  In a January 27, 1975 post-meeting memorandum prepared by  the Corps, the representative of the Board of Water and Sewer Commissioners is quoted as saying, "If my Board has the guts, we will construct the weir with or without the permit." 

I see some people on FB talking about putting the rip rap there themselves. I could see how they could clear the portage path, but wouldn't modifying a dam owned by the city be illegal?

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The cell phone thing has been debunked.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

While it's *possible* that RF can generate sparks (I've got the burn scars to prove it)-you'd need a lot more than a cell phone could emit.

The door switch for a dome light or starter brushes would be more likely to ignite fuel vapors.

Static discharge from sliding across a car seat and then touching the nozzle to the car is usually what sets off the blaze.

I DO like that riprap idea for low head dams.

Florence being like it is, I think the next thing that crazy city council may recommend is to station a cop hiding in the bushes and give tickets to people running the dam. Like everything else, they think giving tickets will improve safety.

umm yall do know there is a path around the dam.. Right?

Yes, but does the city keep it cleared  and graveled and have they installed and maintained take-out and put-in ramps in accordance with the requirements of Condition m. of their permit?  This will be checked out soon.

So if someone does a header off of O'neal or Patton Island bridge, they can sue the state?  That is the logic being applied to the dam on Cypress creek.  There is a danger of death, but maybe not.

Really? "Take-out and put-in ramps" for canoes? LOL when I was a kid we just slid the boat in the water no need for the city/county to provide us with a ramp. So you people need a manicured path to prevent you from committing suicide?

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When the Corps of Engineers issued the permit for the dam, they included a reasonable condition requiring take out and put in ramps and a clear graveled path.  That requirement was intended to provide a safe and convenient route around the dangerous dam.  They were not obliged to take into account how you and your childhood chums managed your watercraft.  If users of the creek  find it too difficult to get their boats or canoes out of the water upstream of the dam, .they will be more likely to attempt going over the dam.  If the portage path is overgrown with weeds and brush, bare-legged boaters will understandably be reluctant to walk through a potentially snake-infested area.

The city illegally conscripted the use of PUBLIC WATERS for their dam when they built it without the required permit. They owe it to the public to provide and maintain safe and convenient portage around the offending structure.  Arguments to the contrary are absurd.

Where do get your drinking water?  At the time the dam was built it was help keep the pool deep enough to supply water for the treatment plant. 

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At that time, a rock structure was in place to keep the water level above the intake structure.  That arrangement had long been adequate and would have continued to be adequate.

The Board of Water and Sewer Commissioners was requesting to build a dam that would provide it with as much water as it wished to withdraw from the creek, even during low-flow conditions.  Their representative adamantly stated that they would not yield to ANY limitations on the quantity of water they could withdraw.  When this unreasonable demand was refused, he stated that if his board had the guts, they would build the dam with or without a permit.

Do you endorse this kind of irresponsible lawlessness?

 This makes me wonder if the sewer and water board had plans on building the Tennessee river water plant just a mere 10 years after this killing dam was built? 

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I can answer that question.  In the January 20, 1975 meeting with the Corps of Engineers and other agencies (described in my post above), the city's representative reported that the city had already purchased a tract of land from TVA on Wilson Lake, which would be used for a new water plant and intake, but that  it would not be developed for at least 10 to 15 years. He stated also that the decision to upgrade the existing plant was based  on the present economic condition of the City of Florence. The dam was built in 5 years later,1980; thus at that time the anticipated date of construction of the new plant presumably would have been 5 to 10 years in the future.

Who cares if they illegally constructed it. Fix the thing already. And put in a new disc golf course over there while they are at it. Maybe a trail for a mud run too.

here's an email i sent to the mayor, all of city council and 3 members of the tourism dept. 


it amazes me how we have all kinds of rivers, creeks and streams that thousands of other cities would love to have and would use it to draw tourism to their city. florence, alabama has had this treasure right under their nose and the tennessee river is the only one they seem to care about. if i was in charge, i would hire a company ( http://mclaughlinwhitewater.com/ ) to come in and clean up cypress creek from the fallen trees, debris and rocks sticking up in the middle of the creek. i would restore ghost bridge to making it a walking bridge with trails going to the creek. i would use what we have to get people in our city to visit. i would do it to make florence all it could be. the mclaughlin whitewater design group is exactly what we need.

i kayak cypress creek often and it's a sport that's getting more popular every year. drive around the city on weekends and take notice of how many kayak's you see being hauled to the creek. what's sad is a lot of these people in florence are driving to tennessee to kayak. (buffalo and shoal creek) another perfect example of how alabama is loosing tourism dollars to neighboring states.

the dam on cypress is a huge issue because several people have died there and many more will continue to die until this illegally built dam is fixed. the mclaughlin whitewater design group can fix this problem and save the city of florence a lot of money in attorney cost and law suits in the near future plus loved ones will be safe.
you would be amazed at how many people use this creek for kayaking and how many people of all ages go over the dam.
i know they have signs up and a trail, but canoes are very heavy to carry on a trail that looks like snakes are within feet of where you're walking. how about if you cut the trees and brush from the dam to the walking trail and have that wide open area for people to get out of their kayak or canoe at the edge of the dam and only have to carry it 3 feet to the other side of the dam?

florence is a beautiful city. i would love to see florence take pride in the creeks and streams in the city.
sweetwater creek is another creek that you should take pride in. if the city got a crew out to cut down the brush and hedge, you would be able to see the creek from patton street and sweetwater ave.

I don't live in Lauderdale County so I don't think anyone cares what I say, but good luck with this project. If you get an answer back post it and I will write then.

people need to learn not to fight the current when they tip at the dam. fighting the current or trying to stay with your boat is the wrong plan. that will keep you in the "drowning machine". i have seen people get held in that current by their pfd. bobbing up and down until we got them a rope,

Significant modifications to the dam by the city or others would require  permits from the Corps of Engineers and TVA pursuant to Section 404 of the Clean Water Act, Section 10 of the River and Harbor Act of March 3, 1899 and Section 26A of the TVA Act..