I have to wonder just how many of the crowd on here that supports liberalization of alcohol use and that decries the alleged encroachment of Sunday sales restrictions as unconstitutional under the First Amendment were also among the number of those who so loudly defended Judge Roy Moore and his 10 Commandments rock in the courthouse. If you took the position that Moore's actions were not justly interdicted by the First Amendment prohibition of laws that respect an "establishment of religion," then you are grossly inconsistent in arguing that Sunday sales laws are unconstitutional on the basis of first Amendment protection. I invite all the pro-Sunday sales enthusiasts to fess up whether they were Roy's boys and girls back when that was a hot topic.
beternU, here's my "fess up":
---I do not want Sunday sales
---I am a Christian who attends church regularly (tho I'm NOT implying that if you are against Sunday sales and/or do not attend church you are not a Christian - I just mention this so that you will realize it when you read my last statement.)
---I believe that we are all entitled to our own thoughts and reasoning and we don't have to put anyone down that doesn't agree with us. Some things are a matter of being constitutional or unconstitutional and some matters are to be voted on.
---AND I did NOT support Roy Moore's ideas of having the 10 commandments in the courthouse although I believe in all ten of them!
---I do not want Sunday sales
---I am a Christian who attends church regularly (tho I'm NOT implying that if you are against Sunday sales and/or do not attend church you are not a Christian - I just mention this so that you will realize it when you read my last statement.)
---I believe that we are all entitled to our own thoughts and reasoning and we don't have to put anyone down that doesn't agree with us. Some things are a matter of being constitutional or unconstitutional and some matters are to be voted on.
---AND I did NOT support Roy Moore's ideas of having the 10 commandments in the courthouse although I believe in all ten of them!
quote:I have to wonder just how many of the crowd on here that supports liberalization of alcohol use and that decries the alleged encroachment of Sunday sales restrictions as unconstitutional under the First Amendment were also among the number of those who so loudly defended Judge Roy Moore and his 10 Commandments rock in the courthouse. If you took the position that Moore's actions were not justly interdicted by the First Amendment prohibition of laws that respect an "establishment of religion," then you are grossly inconsistent in arguing that Sunday sales laws are unconstitutional on the basis of first Amendment protection. I invite all the pro-Sunday sales enthusiasts to fess up whether they were Roy's boys and girls back when that was a hot topic.
Ah...good move...went straight for the throat didn't you? They won't fess up though...bet ya.
quote:Originally posted by inquisitive:
beternU, here's my "fess up":
---I do not want Sunday sales
---I am a Christian who attends church regularly (tho I'm NOT implying that if you are against Sunday sales and/or do not attend church you are not a Christian - I just mention this so that you will realize it when you read my last statement.)
---I believe that we are all entitled to our own thoughts and reasoning and we don't have to put anyone down that doesn't agree with us. Some things are a matter of being constitutional or unconstitutional and some matters are to be voted on.
---AND I did NOT support Roy Moore's ideas of having the 10 commandments in the courthouse although I believe in all ten of them!
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. But consider this also. There are, coincidentally, some things that Christians support that also can be and are supported by those who make no particular profession of faith but who do entertain high moral standards. Admittedly, Sunday sales restrictions have a basis in the fact that Sunday is the generally-accepted Christian day of organized worship. But Sunday is more than that, as affects society at large. It is widely considered a day of rest and relaxation, irrespective of religious preference. That being the case, there is room for something of a secular position that holds that at alcohol sales restrictions in public places, for least some small part of the week, can have social benefits that are not necessarily rooted in religious preference or practice. When my kids were small, there were places I would have liked to take them, but did not, and the reason I did not was that I knew drinking would be occurring in those places and that there was a good chance that some loud and discourteous and disreputable conduct would also occur, along with bad language that I preferred my kids, at that age, not to hear. It would have been nice to know that alcohol sales and consumption were off limits in such settings, and it would have been nice for that to have been the case for just one day of the seven days in the week.
My whole point was and still is when mixing polluted water with wine or any alcoholic drink, the alcohol will not kill enought germs or parasites to protect you. That's it.
As to catholic and jewish use of sacramental wines during prohibition, dry laws, etc. An exception was always made for those because of the religious aspect.
As to catholic and jewish use of sacramental wines during prohibition, dry laws, etc. An exception was always made for those because of the religious aspect.
quote:Originally posted by interventor:
slgreen,
" I am NOT a drinker at all. I personally wish that alcohol could be seen as the dangerous drug that it is, and BANNED!!"
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The US banned alcohol during Prohibition. The result was breakdown in respect for law, wide spread breaking of the law, enrichment and empowerment of organized crime (Mafia), gun battles using fully automatic weapons in the streets, and the resulting drug culture from wealth generated from bootlegging. Why, would you wish to return to such a failed and disasterous policy?
This statement was made due to my own personal feelings about alcohol and what it does to people. Logically speaking, I realize that alcohol would never be banned....to many politicians drink!
quote:Originally posted by that smart chick:quote:Originally posted by cindyalx:
I am a Sheffield resident and alcohol sales on Sunday is not what this city needs. I am also a christian and know for a fact that God is what we need.
Well Cindy, those that need God on Sunday go to church.
Those that need alcohol on Sunday go to Florence.
Yea,and I wish they'd all move to Florence!!!!!
If you can't get enough alcohol in 6 days,you need rehab!!!!!!!!!
quote:Thanks for a thoughtful reply. But consider this also. There are, coincidentally, some things that Christians support that also can be and are supported by those who make no particular profession of faith but who do entertain high moral standards. Admittedly, Sunday sales restrictions have a basis in the fact that Sunday is the generally-accepted Christian day of organized worship. But Sunday is more than that, as affects society at large. It is widely considered a day of rest and relaxation, irrespective of religious preference. That being the case, there is room for something of a secular position that holds that at alcohol sales restrictions in public places, for least some small part of the week, can have social benefits that are not necessarily rooted in religious preference or practice. When my kids were small, there were places I would have liked to take them, but did not, and the reason I did not was that I knew drinking would be occurring in those places and that there was a good chance that some loud and discourteous and disreputable conduct would also occur, along with bad language that I preferred my kids, at that age, not to hear. It would have been nice to know that alcohol sales and consumption were off limits in such settings, and it would have been nice for that to have been the case for just one day of the seven days in the week.
beternu, I agree with you.
I'd like to add that I would RATHER know that everytime I take my child out to eat (Logan's, Texas Roadhouse, anyplace) that there would be an alcohol-free environment. (We do not drink at all.) However, I realize that not everyone shares my thoughts and that I have to teach my child "in the home" . My child is young and when she sees someone drinking she seems astonished! I politely teach her that we have to be respectful of others and that not everyone beleives the same as we do and that doesn't make them bad people. (ALTHOUGH,there have been times that I've spoken up when I've heard offensive language, especially in front of my child.) I believe that we need to vote for what WE feel is right but also learn to be tolerant of others while still staying true to ourselves. But that goes 2 ways, you know?
quote:Okay, the Constitution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."
The government has "established" that it is illegal to sell alcohol during once single day. It is very much "established" that the reason behind this prohibition is to "keep the sabbath holy" and rooted in fundamentalist, puritanical beliefs.
I could argue, quite legitimately, that part of MY "religion" involves the consumption of wine or other spirits on Sunday. Therefore, the government is violating the constitution by making a law that establishes a fundamentalist religion.
No, you couldn't argue that. This vote is about Sunday Sales, not the consumption of alcohol. You can drink all you want on Sunday, you just can't buy it at this time.
As to whether I am for or against this vote. Well, it doesn't really matter. I live in Florence. But to tell the truth, I don't care one way or the other if Sheffield has Sunday sales or not.
My problem with your statements stem from the fact that it sounds like you are talking about all Baptists when you talk. I think of myself as a conservative fundamentalist Missionary Baptist, but I don't agree with everything that is done whether they are for or against it. As for the comment by someone else that conservative means that one doesn't believe in change, that's not always true.
quote:Originally posted by FatBaldGayGuy:
[QUOTE] I have to wonder just how many of the crowd on here that supports liberalization of alcohol use and that decries the alleged encroachment of Sunday sales restrictions as unconstitutional under the First Amendment were also among the number of those who so loudly defended Judge Roy Moore and his 10 Commandments rock in the courthouse. If you took the position that Moore's actions were not justly interdicted by the First Amendment prohibition of laws that respect an "establishment of religion," then you are grossly inconsistent in arguing that Sunday sales laws are unconstitutional on the basis of first Amendment protection. I invite all the pro-Sunday sales enthusiasts to fess up whether they were Roy's boys and girls back when that was a hot topic.
Ok, time for my fess up....
As I said in another reply, I really don't care whether the vote passes or not. It won't affect me either way. As for Roy Moore, it doesn't really matter because whether the Ten Commandments are displayed or not. They are still in the courtroom regardless, just not displayed. I admire him for his stand on his beliefs, but again it doesn't affect me either way.
quote:Originally posted by inquisitive:
beternU, here's my "fess up":
---I do not want Sunday sales
---I am a Christian who attends church regularly (tho I'm NOT implying that if you are against Sunday sales and/or do not attend church you are not a Christian - I just mention this so that you will realize it when you read my last statement.)
---I believe that we are all entitled to our own thoughts and reasoning and we don't have to put anyone down that doesn't agree with us. Some things are a matter of being constitutional or unconstitutional and some matters are to be voted on.
---AND I did NOT support Roy Moore's ideas of having the 10 commandments in the courthouse although I believe in all ten of them!
I agree with everything you said here... very well put. My only major concern is that NOT selling it on Sunday does NOT mean people dont DRINK it. In fact, selling it just might make them drink LESS. I know someone that buys a whole case late on Saturday Night, most of which is drank on Sunday. IF the sales were approved, I daresay that he would probably only drink one or two. I only care because I DO think it would help the revenue. And believe it or not, ALL the cities in this area needs all the revenue they can get.
I would sincerely hate to see the "NIGHT SPOTS" open on Sunday nights though, and I hope it doesn't go that far because then the "mindset" is different for the drinker.
I know that in Huntsville it runs seven nights a week, wide open, and I was told by a co-worker that on Monday mornings in some places of employment there were some 'firings' and "letters in files" about being late, or still reeking of alcohol... now THAT is sad.
quote:Originally posted by Techno62:
(GoFish said: I could argue, quite legitimately, that part of MY "religion" involves the consumption of wine or other spirits on Sunday. Therefore, the government is violating the constitution by making a law that establishes a fundamentalist religion.
No, you couldn't argue that. [/QUOTE]
Yes, I could. Watch: I just now invented a new religion. It's called Beerism. Part of my belief system is that beer is the nectar of the gods. The fermentation process is evidence of God's presence on earth. To drink beer is to drink the nectar of my God. Drinking this nectar brings me closer to Inhebria (which is kinda like Nirvana or perhaps Valhalla but with hot chicks on stripper poles). Like you, I worship every day of the week but I really prefer Sunday.
Occasionally, I skip my Saturday worship and double-up on Sunday. Sometimes I forget to replenish my stock of bee . . er, nectar. I would like to exercise my right to spend my money on some beer but I CAN'T BECAUSE YOUR STUPID RELIGION SAYS I CAN'T!
Even YOU, an admitted fundamentalist, can't give me a valid reason for this silly prohibition!
Does this help you understand my plight at all?
quote:My problem with your statements stem from the fact that it sounds like you are talking about all Baptists when you talk.
Well, that's probably because I AM talking about all Baptists. Until they quit trying to assert their stupid religious preferences into my personal space (or my child's science class) I'll keep calling them stupid and speak against them whenever possible.
quote:Originally posted by interventor:
My whole point was and still is when mixing polluted water with wine or any alcoholic drink, the alcohol will not kill enought germs or parasites to protect you. That's it.
As to catholic and jewish use of sacramental wines during prohibition, dry laws, etc. An exception was always made for those because of the religious aspect.
What you have not considered is the time required for alcohol, in a wine-water mixture, to perform the necessary disinfection. Any disinfectant, whether alcohol, calcium hypochlorite, or other substance, needs time to contact and kill its intended target. Sure, if you mix wine and water and then drink it all off RIGHT NOW, that disinfection might not be complete, and in the chemistry of the digestive system, some of those bugs might still attack you. The ancients added wine to water and let it sit a while, thus giving the wine time to do its murder on germs! Doubtless they were also much more patient than the addicted imbibers of our time, who just could not possible wait a few minutes for the next shot!
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by Techno62:
(GoFish said: I could argue, quite legitimately, that part of MY "religion" involves the consumption of wine or other spirits on Sunday. Therefore, the government is violating the constitution by making a law that establishes a fundamentalist religion.
No, you couldn't argue that.
Yes, I could. Watch: I just now invented a new religion. It's called Beerism. Part of my belief system is that beer is the nectar of the gods. The fermentation process is evidence of God's presence on earth. To drink beer is to drink the nectar of my God. Drinking this nectar brings me closer to Inhebria (which is kinda like Nirvana or perhaps Valhalla but with hot chicks on stripper poles). Like you, I worship every day of the week but I really prefer Sunday.
Gofish, it's fine if you want to invent a religion. I don't care. My point was that drinking on Sunday isn't against any law. And at this time only the Sunday sales are against the law. And if it changes, so what? Then you can buy all you want. Doesn't change what I think, so it doesn't matter to me. In fact, it you had read a little more you would see that I don't even care if it changes or not. Still doesn't affect me.
Occasionally, I skip my Saturday worship and double-up on Sunday. Sometimes I forget to replenish my stock of bee . . er, nectar. I would like to exercise my right to spend my money on some beer but I CAN'T BECAUSE YOUR STUPID RELIGION SAYS I CAN'T!
I believe that you said that you didn't know if the Baptists started the Blue Laws, so why do you still rely on personal attacks. As for exercising your right, you can do that if the vote goes your way. I am not the one on the street corner or in the paper trying to get people to not vote your way. My opinion on it is my opinion and thats all. Others can do what they want, just like you can do what you want.
Even YOU, an admitted fundamentalist, can't give me a valid reason for this silly prohibition!
So? It not my job to give you valid reasons for anything. I'm not the one proclaiming against it. Attacking me doesn't help you at all.
Does this help you understand my plight at all?
Yes Gofish, I understand your plight, but I don't care one way or the other how things turn out.
quote:My problem with your statements stem from the fact that it sounds like you are talking about all Baptists when you talk.
Well, that's probably because I AM talking about all Baptists. Until they quit trying to assert their stupid religious preferences into my personal space (or my child's science class) I'll keep calling them stupid and speak against them whenever possible.[/QUOTE]
It is obvious that not all Baptists do what you are saying. I'm not. I have not tried to assert anything religious to you or your child. And you can call anyone stupid if you want, there just words and they don't hurt anyone.
quote:Yea,and I wish they'd all move to Florence!!!!!
They are all moving to Florence. That's why Sheffield is in such a state.
DF
quote:Originally posted by Techno62:
Ok, I am a Missionary Baptist and although I agree that alcohol isn't a good thing, I would have to say that the approach in the against side isn't working. If you are going to be against Sunday sales of alcohol then you should also be against the sale of anything on Sunday. I mean if others can't buy their alcohol then you can't go buy a coke or candy bar at the local Walmart. I am not trying to help either side here, just stating an obvious point. As for someone trying to tell others what to do, remember everyone has a opinion and has that right to it. That's what the voting process is for. If I was from there, I would state my opinion also and then go vote my conviction. If it goes my way that's great, but if it doesn't go my way it's still great. I may not like the way it went, but it is my duty as a citizen of democracy to support the decision of the majority. But I will give my opinion on the outcome of it, and it is my right to do so. So all this name calling and ranting against either party does nothing but cause more trouble.
Missionary Baptist don't go to Wal-mart on Sunday????????????????
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Schnauzer:
Amen, that is why my church(church of Christ) and a baptist church is having a joint service sunday night. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.[Quote]
Yipeeee.......the Church of Christ is going to show them Baptist how to keep from going to Hell!!!!!
Amen, that is why my church(church of Christ) and a baptist church is having a joint service sunday night. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.[Quote]
Yipeeee.......the Church of Christ is going to show them Baptist how to keep from going to Hell!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by vick13:
She (believing she had a fellow do-gooder) 'fessed up that she was leaving because the show was, gasp, about MAGIC!!
What rot.
Vick, I bet she was a HolyRoller!!
She was a nut.
You'd best be talking about the dog fighting idiot vick! I forgot that's that creature's name. He's the only animal I'd like to hurt.
quote:Originally posted by Taciturn:quote:Originally posted by Techno62:
Ok, I am a Missionary Baptist and although I agree that alcohol isn't a good thing, I would have to say that the approach in the against side isn't working. If you are going to be against Sunday sales of alcohol then you should also be against the sale of anything on Sunday. I mean if others can't buy their alcohol then you can't go buy a coke or candy bar at the local Walmart. I am not trying to help either side here, just stating an obvious point. As for someone trying to tell others what to do, remember everyone has a opinion and has that right to it. That's what the voting process is for. If I was from there, I would state my opinion also and then go vote my conviction. If it goes my way that's great, but if it doesn't go my way it's still great. I may not like the way it went, but it is my duty as a citizen of democracy to support the decision of the majority. But I will give my opinion on the outcome of it, and it is my right to do so. So all this name calling and ranting against either party does nothing but cause more trouble.
Missionary Baptist don't go to Wal-mart on Sunday????????????????
I do, so what? When you read what I typed did you miss the part that said, "I am not trying to help either side here, just stating an obvious point". I really don't care one way or the other how this election goes. It really doesn't matter, because they already sell alcohol there.