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It was an SKS type assault weapon from what I read.  Apparently the man wasn't too good a shot with hit either.  The overly apparent thing though, with respect to the shooter, is that he was a hot head and most all his postings and writings were mirrors of what he heard on Liberal news sites.  None of his rants and raves were unique and of his own but rather were repeating the same thing that you would hear on MSNBC or CNN or even hearing from some Democratic politicians. 

Had this man been a Conservative, and had shot Democrats,  and repeated things that Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh had said you would have an orchestrated attempt to have  either or both removed from their shows and have them banished from the air forever.  As it is you are hearing almost a news blackout regarding the man and his motivations.

Sadly, and just as worrisome, this guy mirrors so many unhinged liberals who have bought into the Democratic talking points and are potentially just as much a danger as this guy was.  The most ludicrous thing surrounding this horrendous, unfortunate, event was the attempt to link it to Sarah Palin or somehow claim that she started what played out.  The one thing that is for certain is that had there not been the majority whip on the field, with his protection, then there would have been many lawmakers killed that day, including Mo Brooks, our own representative because his name was on a hit list that the man had made.  

The SKS was also not classified as an “assault weapon” under the now-expired 1994 Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act. Nearly twenty years later, Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein didn’t include the firearm in her list of “assault weapons” that would be banned under a gun control bill she proposed in 2013.

http://www.mediaite.com/online...s-not-an-ak-variant/

Other than that, spot on GBRK.

 

Last edited by budsfarm

The SKS is a Russian WWII era rifle.  Its semiautomatic, 7.62mmx39 caliber, uses an integral 10-round magazine reloaded from the top by a stripper clip.  Its reliable, but not very accurate.  

The US equivalent is the M1 Garand. Its semiautomatic, .30-06 caliber, loaded with an en bloc 8-round clip.  Its extremely reliable and accurate. Patton spoke highly of it.

The progressive beta male fire into a fenced in area for 10 minutes. He wounded 5, but killed no one.  Taken out by a member of the National Capitol Police with a pistol. 

Wow, I learned something, tonight, because I surely didn't realize that the SKS dated back to World War II.  I do know that rifle, and it's many and various models from the various nations that produced it, killed a great many freedom loving people.  I also remember that the American militaries replacement for the World War II rifles, used in Vietnam, the M16 went through a lot of revisions because of the jamming and misfires that the first models had but once they made improvements it was a reliable rifle for our military and allies.  Still the SKS's fame came from the fact that you could drop it under water, drag it through mud, wipe it off days later and still fight with it but as you said and as the recent shooter discovered it does suffer a bit from accuracy but what it hits it does major damage to.  

The M1 was a great gun over many years with a devastating round but it could keep on going through flesh, walls, and potentially take out other non-intended targets.   The M14 was also a great replacement and I think still a great gun (wish I had one) but because of the weight and ability to carry as well as the ability to modify it for many other uses made the M16 an obvious replacement for field soldiers.  For accuracy though I still think that the 7.62 x 51mm (.308) ammunition provided a more accurate round but the 5.56 x 45mm NATO ammo (close to the .223) gave more desirable ballistics, at least for the Military's desires. , at least I believe that's why they chose it.  I really don't know that much about it so I am sure someone here can do a far better job than I at describing the weapons and how they came about.

What I do know is, as far as the protection agents that had pistols up against this shooter they were very fortunate it was an SKS other than an AR16 or any one of several other weapons/rifles.  They are also fortunate he either wasn't a good shot or the gun wasn't that reliable and he wasn't the proficient with it.  In the case of the Congressman that was hit in the hip area the ammunition used proved how destructive it can be in the way it fragments as it hits bone and tears flesh and blood vessels along it's path with arteries which is what put the Congressman's life in such danger.    It does far more damage by staying in the body than if it went through and out cleanly.  

It all comes down to the fact that things have gotten far too out of hand politically and much is the fault of the Democrats and liberals, including the media, for the way they portray Republicans and conservatives all because they lost.  They are making, unstable, people feel that their candidate got cheated and that a foreign government helped steal the election also.  These are the same who are preaching and teaching that Republicans are taking people's health insurance away and killing old folks and a host of other things that are obviously (to any sane person) false and over hyped because of political differences.  They (LIBERALS) claim that the Right uses HATE they attach words like HATE to conservatives and Republicans when the actual ACTIONS prove that actual true real hatred is within the domain of the radical, liberal, left.  At least that's what the actual acts and history to this date has proved.  It isn't the Conservatives or Right that prevents speakers from speaking and exercising their first amendment rights at College campuses.   It was Trump voters and supporters that were bloodied and beaten at campaign events, not supporters of Hillary or Bernie.  So where as the Left claims the Right has hate on their sides and blames the Tea Party the actual events and occurrences of hateful acts land clearly on their doorsteps and are perpetrated by their supporters.

That, at least, is my own feeling and belief from what i've seen and read and heard about and I reserve the right to be incorrect if there is evidence to prove me wrong but until then I will hold to these beliefs.

gbrk posted:

Wow, I learned something, tonight, because I surely didn't realize that the SKS dated back to World War II.  I do know that rifle, and it's many and various models from the various nations that produced it, killed a great many freedom loving people.  I also remember that the American militaries replacement for the World War II rifles, used in Vietnam, the M16 went through a lot of revisions because of the jamming and misfires that the first models had but once they made improvements it was a reliable rifle for our military and allies.  Still the SKS's fame came from the fact that you could drop it under water, drag it through mud, wipe it off days later and still fight with it but as you said and as the recent shooter discovered it does suffer a bit from accuracy but what it hits it does major damage to.  

The M1 was a great gun over many years with a devastating round but it could keep on going through flesh, walls, and potentially take out other non-intended targets.   The M14 was also a great replacement and I think still a great gun (wish I had one) but because of the weight and ability to carry as well as the ability to modify it for many other uses made the M16 an obvious replacement for field soldiers.  For accuracy though I still think that the 7.62 x 51mm (.308) ammunition provided a more accurate round but the 5.56 x 45mm NATO ammo (close to the .223) gave more desirable ballistics, at least for the Military's desires. , at least I believe that's why they chose it.  I really don't know that much about it so I am sure someone here can do a far better job than I at describing the weapons and how they came about.

What I do know is, as far as the protection agents that had pistols up against this shooter they were very fortunate it was an SKS other than an AR16 or any one of several other weapons/rifles.  They are also fortunate he either wasn't a good shot or the gun wasn't that reliable and he wasn't the proficient with it.  In the case of the Congressman that was hit in the hip area the ammunition used proved how destructive it can be in the way it fragments as it hits bone and tears flesh and blood vessels along it's path with arteries which is what put the Congressman's life in such danger.    It does far more damage by staying in the body than if it went through and out cleanly.  

It all comes down to the fact that things have gotten far too out of hand politically and much is the fault of the Democrats and liberals, including the media, for the way they portray Republicans and conservatives all because they lost.  They are making, unstable, people feel that their candidate got cheated and that a foreign government helped steal the election also.  These are the same who are preaching and teaching that Republicans are taking people's health insurance away and killing old folks and a host of other things that are obviously (to any sane person) false and over hyped because of political differences.  They (LIBERALS) claim that the Right uses HATE they attach words like HATE to conservatives and Republicans when the actual ACTIONS prove that actual true real hatred is within the domain of the radical, liberal, left.  At least that's what the actual acts and history to this date has proved.  It isn't the Conservatives or Right that prevents speakers from speaking and exercising their first amendment rights at College campuses.   It was Trump voters and supporters that were bloodied and beaten at campaign events, not supporters of Hillary or Bernie.  So where as the Left claims the Right has hate on their sides and blames the Tea Party the actual events and occurrences of hateful acts land clearly on their doorsteps and are perpetrated by their supporters.

That, at least, is my own feeling and belief from what i've seen and read and heard about and I reserve the right to be incorrect if there is evidence to prove me wrong but until then I will hold to these beliefs.

The pistol against rifle arguments, in this case, include several factors:  SKS not known for accuracy, National Capitol Police force training, and progressive, beta male shooter -- species not know for competence. 

jtdavis posted:

Why do you want to shoot a gun and not have any sound made? Are you doing something crooked? If the idiot would have had a silencer on his rifle, how much more could he have shot before being noticed?

Lots of reasons not to shoot a gun and have sound "made". One would be to not disturb neighbors or others around the place I was shooting. So, a person with a silencer is doing something crooked in your mind, instead of being courteous to others? Typical demoslop thinking. I think if the idiot libtard had wanted to use a silencer he could have made arrangements for that, and nothing the NRA said or did would have had any influence. You do know people can make them don't you? It doesn't matter where the NRA stands on the subject.

Last edited by Bestworking

The M14 was also a great replacement and I think still a great gun (wish I had one) - GBRK

The Springfield M1A is a fine semi-auto copy sans bayonet lug of the M14.  Sanctioned for use in matches in which service rifles are required, they come in National Match versions as well as "as issued" to heavily modified.  Whatever strain your pocketbook can bear.

Mine has the sling from the M14 I carried in the early 1960's.

 

jtdavis posted:

My question, why does the NRA want to make it easy for gun owners to get silencers for their guns? 

 

“The Duncan-Carter Hearing Protection Act would allow people easier access to suppressors, which would help them to better protect their hearing.”

The Hearing Protection Act, H.R. 367, would remove suppressors from regulation under the National Firearms Act, replacing the federal transfer process with a National Instant Criminal Background Check. The bill would reduce the cost of purchasing a suppressor by removing the $200 transfer tax.

Suppressors are often mischaracterized in Hollywood. They do not “silence” the sound of a firearm. Instead, they act as mufflers and can reduce the noise of a gunshot to hearing safe levels. Not only do suppressors reduce hearing damage for the shooter, they reduce the noise of ranges located near residential areas.

H.R. 367 would make it easier for gun owners and sportsmen to purchase suppressors in the 42 states where they are currently legal. Purchasers would have to pass a background check to buy them, and prohibited people would be denied. 

https://www.nraila.org/article...rotection-act-hr-367

H.R.367 - Hearing Protection Act of 2017

https://www.congress.gov/bill/...gress/house-bill/367

You're welcome.

 

 

Sometimes sound works for you and in your favor.  One of the most deterring sounds to a potential Burger would be the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.  No other thing makes that kind of sound and its unmistakable.

Or compare the sound of a .22 round going off to that of a .357 magnum, a 30-06 or NATO 5.56 and I'd say one would instill more fear than another.  As for a silencer that would be a pretty intimidating sound as well.  

jtdavis posted:

When silencers are legal and cheap, every thug in america will have one.

In Europe, suppressors (silencers) are easy to get because it is considered to be considerate to others:

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/5/405370/-

DISCLAIMER:  I am a Democrat voter.  I am also a gun owner.

Firearm suppressors, colloquially and inaccurately known as "silencers", are basic safety equipment when operating a firearm, as their use prevents both hearing damage and reduces the noise pollution of firing ranges.  Due to a little-known section of Federal law called the National Firearms Act, their possession has been all but criminalized.  

(This article refers to these devices by the correct "suppressors" instead of the more colloquial and inaccurate "silencers", as they do no such thing.)

Suppressors have the benefit of both decreasing the likelihood of hearing loss and decreasing noise pollution from hunting and shooting ranges.  In the UK, Europe, and Scandinavia, they recognize the health and environmental benefits of suppressors, so they are sold over the counter without much regulation at all.

jtdavis posted:

As I said, every thug in a gang will want one so they can shoot more before it is known where the shots came from.

I read what you said.  You're not making anymore sense the second time than you did the first.

Did you read the part where suppressors are legal in 42 states already and the bill only applies to them?   What are your thugs waiting on?

The government to give them one?

 

budsfarm posted:

One might think JT is overlooking the National Instant Criminal Background Check as being a hurtle for his thugs but he's not.  He knows the individual he identifies as "idiot" is in fact a documented left wing political mass assassin  who sailed right through it.

 

Considering who the last administration thought would be better people to be goobermint approved gun owners, it's not hard to believe that "documented left wing political mass assassins" would be a more equal privileged group of swine.

 http://www.judicialwatch.org/p...d-least-69-killings/

There is so much conflicting and outdated information that it seems overwhelming to even think about diving in to begin the process.

Fortunately, buying an NFA item (such as a silencer) is a simple process that generally requires less paperwork than buying a new refrigerator! (Plus, suppressors are way “cooler” than fridges. Ha!)

In an ironic twist, ATF 41F opened the door for us at Silencer Shop to apply revolutionary technology to the suppressor ownership process in a way that was not possible prior to the rule changes. With our Secure Identity Documentation (S.I.D.) Kiosk and our Silencer Shop Mobile App, we’ve streamlined the arduous process to a more efficient and convenient practice. If you so choose, the entire process can be handeled digitally and you won't have to fill out any paper forms!

Moreover, many people are still under the mistaken impression that they need a Class 3 license in order to own a suppressor. Thankfully, this is NOT true. If you live in a state where suppressor ownership is legal (and you may legally purchase a firearm), then you can buy a suppressor. Woohoo!


Assuming you have already established that silencers are legal in your state and decided how you want to register, the following steps will guide you through the simple process to get your new silencer, short barrel rifle (SBR), or short barrel shotgun (SBS). 

https://www.silencershop.com/how-to-buy-a-silencer

JT, I have shot both suppressed rifle and handguns.  What you see in the movies is not reality.   A suppressed gun does not sound like a pneumatic "poof".  It goes bang just like an unsuppressed gun, however, it's just a little quieter. 

As for gangs carrying them, suppressed guns are very hard to conceal and many obscure the aiming sights so you have to point and shoot, which makes them less accurate.   Considering gangs are already carrying illegal weapons and the fact that making a silencer is not a great feat, we'd already be seeing this problem if in fact your claim was a reasonable one.  You can go online today buy a barrel adapter on the internet that will mate up to an oil filter for a suppressor that costs less than 10 bucks.  Your fears are unfounded and unsubstantiated.

About five years ago there was a shooting at Belle Mina in which a man was killed. The shooter, who claimed he was firing a warning shot, used an old SKS that was made in China during the Korean War. Someone, Wiki I think, indicated that particular SKS was heavy and not very accurate. Someone on here (at least I thought, but couldn't find it) disagreed about its accuracy.

So anyone know what kind of SKS the Washington shooter had?

Kate Colombo posted:

About five years ago there was a shooting at Belle Mina in which a man was killed. The shooter, who claimed he was firing a warning shot, used an old SKS that was made in China during the Korean War. Someone, Wiki I think, indicated that particular SKS was heavy and not very accurate. Someone on here (at least I thought, but couldn't find it) disagreed about its accuracy.

So anyone know what kind of SKS the Washington shooter had?

Federal agents are now tracing the origins of the two firearms recovered at the scene of the crime: an SKS 7.62x39 rifle (made in China) and a 9-millimeter pistol, according to a law enforcement source.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/...n-profile/index.html

I believe there were two variants of Chinese SKS's, one with a threaded barrel and one with a whippy pinned in barrel. The 49th edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook says the following about the cartridge the SKS is chambered in (7.62x39): "Most semiautomatics chambered for this cartridge are doing pretty well if the shooter achieves three-inch groups at 100 yards.".  From what I have seen, that is being rather generous for pinned barrel commercial clones of AKM's and I suspect that would also be the case for the cheap Chinese SKS clone. 

 

 

Last edited by Stanky

Here's wiki again, back with the different countries that made SKS all to their each specifications.  Some better, some a whole lot worse when it came to accuracy.  Not until we positively identify the make / model of the particular SKS will we have any idea of it's accuracy potential.  But overall, none of the models are going to go head to head accuracy wise against an American military rife.

Quality disparities[edit]

There is some debate as to the relative manufacturing quality of each nation's SKS production. The Chinese SKSs varied significantly even among new rifles with some having screwed in barrels, milled trigger groups and bolt carriers with lightening reliefs cut into them being at the top end and cheaper rifles having pinned barrels, stamped trigger groups and slab-sided bolt carriers – though overall quality and serviceability remained high. The main reason for the manufacturing variance comes from differences between rifles made for the Chinese army and those made for export.[18] Yugoslav types are generally considered to be better made than Chinese export rifles when new, but this is often negated by the poor condition they are in due to hard use and neglect[citation needed] The Chinese types typically have chrome-lined barrels while the Yugoslav versions do not, resulting in some Yugoslavian carbines having bores in considerably worse condition than even the cheapest Chinese SKSs. The Yugo M59/66 rifles also are unique in having a gas shut off valve for grenade launching, which is a common source of malfunctions. While often encountered in well-used condition, Romanian carbines were as well-built as the Soviet versions. In general, carbines made in the USSR are considered the highest quality.

The interchangeability of many parts has resulted in carbines on the U.S. market that are a mixture of different parts of varying quality, sometimes including parts from different countries, often with non-standard after-market parts. Such rifles are usually referred to as "parts guns" and are generally considered the least-desirable carbines encountered. Even so, they are significantly cheaper than comparable semi-automatic rifles and can be expected to offer reliable performance.

North Korean, Vietnamese, East German, and Albanian SKSs bring a higher price than those of other countries. Soviet and Romanian carbines have largely reached price parity, with Chinese carbines somewhat lower in price. The stock on the Albanian versions is of a slightly different manufacture and these were made in low production numbers. There were approximately 18,000 Albanian SKSs manufactured during the late 1960s until 1978, and of those, approximately half were destroyed. Most of the remaining East German SKSs had been sold/transferred to Croatia in the early 1990s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS#Quality_disparities

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