so inviculeous, you are out to get us.

Ah, yes. "Father" Tetzel, that indulgence-peddling con man.  "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, another soul from Purgatory springs."

Come and get your indulgences today!  I got indulgences for murder, theft, rape, aggravated assault, pedophilia, lying, cheating, adultery, lust--you name it; slide me some loot and your beloved departed malefactor will be checked out of Purgatory and escorted through the pearly gates.

Um.  "Luder" does NOT mean 'beast."

It means "crafty b**ch", or "hussy."

A definition here:

http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=Luder&iservice=&comment=&email=

Seriously contendah, how is that any different than any denomination? No matter how horrible the deed, all the offender has to do is say, "sorry god, my bad", and they're "good to go".

I have heard of anti-popes but never really knew what that meant. As a Baptist do I qualify as anti-pope?

I'm not really up on that area of history, but I'm gonna have to question its accuracy.

Hi Vic,

Your title reads:  "Short History of Martin Luther and Mary"

Where was Mary in all of that?   I read your copy/paste three times -- and could not find Mary.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

If you click on the link and read the rest of the article, you can see why he titled the post as he did.

***************************

Thanks, canade

___

You must not know much about indulgences.  I know of no other religious group that takes MONEY to obtain forgiveness of sins that have already been forgiven.  That kind of operation is unique Catholic claptrap.  The money-grubbing friar, Friar Tetzel, of Luther's era went about raising indulgence money to build a cathedral.  

The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, "in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions" (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church’s seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.

Catholic  Encyclopedia 

One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence.

There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "[I]t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded." 

Hi all,

If one will read the article from which Vic copy/pasted an excerpt -- you will NOT find the word Mary anywhere in it.

You will find that an apparition which they named Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared to an illiterate Mexican named Juan Diego.  Funny how those apparitions ONLY appear to Roman Catholics -- and even then, mostly to illiterates or small children.  Does this give anyone a clue?

No, Vic, MARY is not mentioned at all in that article; only an apparition which some are brainwashed to believe is Mary.

And, even the article which Vic plagiarized has a different title:  "Martin Luther and Our Lady of Guadalupe"  -- NOT MARY!

Come on, Vic, stick to the script the Vatican has given you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

How is that showing prejudice or bigotry?  Did YOU think that the name Juan Diego is an Irish name?   Duh!

How is calling someone of Mexican descent Mexican -- being prejudiced or bigoted?

Dove, my dear Friend, your attempts to challenge -- are as weak as Vic's attempt to validate Roman Catholicism.

Bless your heart!

Bill

Guada-LOOPY:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4201

Hi Dove,

Since you cannot find anything else to complain about, you tell me regarding Juan Diego, "And you felt it was necessary to point out that he was 'illiterate' though you left that out in your response?   We know what you are!"

Juan Diego (July 12, 1474– May 30, 1548) was a 16th-century indigenous farmer in Mexico.  Do you claim he was an educated man -- or was he an illiterate farmer? 

His claim to fame was the he had an hallucination, thought it was the virgin Mary -- and for that, they made him a Roman Catholic Saint. 

So, you tell me what I wrote that was wrong, prejudiced, or bigoted. 

Dove, you are like a child throwing a tantrum -- and does not even know what it wants.   It just wants to make noise.  And, my Friend, I suspect you are guilty of the same.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

We know what yo are...

Earlier, when I wrote that Juan Diego was an "illiterate Mexican"  -- that seemed to have upset Dove.  Yet, reading in the article found in your URL, we find:

In 1531, the Spanish had been occupying Mexico for about ten years.  An indigenous peasant, Juan Diego, was walking in what's now Mexico City when he saw the glowing figure of a teenage girl on a hill called Tepeyac.  She identified herself as the Virgin Mary, and asked him to build her a church on that spot.

I have long been an avid reader, and in my 20 years in the Roman Catholic church I bought and read virtually all of the Roman Catholic books about the different so-called appearances of the virgin Mary.  At the time, I bought into these stories also -- for the same reason I was drawn to that church.

It is large and mysterious -- and all of these miracles kept happening to common folks, like Juan Diego, the three young children of Fatima, etc.  It was not until later, after becoming a Christian believer -- that I began to wonder:  Why do these miracles, i.e., appartions (hallicunations?) happen ONLY to Roman Catholics? 

Why is it that ONLY Roman Catholics see Jesus, or more likely the virgin Mary -- on a window pane, on a tortilla, in a cloud, etc.?  And, why does this most often happen to uneducated, illiterate peasants, farmers, children, etc.?  

Could it be a form of brainwashing, similar to young Middle Eastern children raised from birth to be Muslims and to hate America?  That makes sense to me.

Still, I know that God is all knowing (omniscient), all powerful (omnipotent), and everywhere present (omnipresent) -- so, He absolutely could, can, and does cause miracles to happen.  This I believe with all my heart. 

But, still, I keep coming back to the same question:  Why do "these" types of apparitions ONLY happen to lesser educated Roman Catholics?  Something to think about.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Beliefs and Miracles

Roman Catholic sources claim many miraculous and supernatural properties for the image such as that the tilma has maintained its structural integrity over nearly 500 years, while replicas normally last only about 15 years before suffering degradation;^[50] that it repaired itself with no external help after a 1791 ammonia spill that did considerable damage, and that on 14 November 1921 a bomb damaged the altar, but left the icon unharmed.^[51]

Then in 1929 and 1951 photographers found a figure reflected in the Virgin's eyes; upon inspection they said that the reflection was tripled in what is called the Purkinje effect, commonly found in human eyes.^[52] An ophthalmologist, Dr. Jose Aste Tonsmann, later enlarged an image of the

Virgin's eyes by 2500x and claimed to have found not only the aforementioned single figure, but images of all the witnesses present when the tilma was first revealed before Zumárraga in 1531, plus a small family group of mother, father, and a group of children, in the center of the Virgin's eyes, fourteen people in all.^[53]

Numerous Catholic websites repeat an unsourced claim^[54] that in 1936 biochemist Richard Kuhn analyzed a sample of the fabric and announced that the pigments used were from no known source, whether animal, mineral or vegetable.

Dr. Philip Serna Callahan, who photographed the icon under infrared light, declared from his photographs that portions of the face, hands, robe, and mantle had been painted in one step, with no sketches or corrections and no visible brush strokes.^[55]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe

************************************************

Here's "skeptoid" Brian Dunning

The sting also netted Brian Dunning, eBay's second biggest affiliate marketer.  The company had paid Hogan and Dunning a combined $35 million in commissions  over the years, court papers say. Both men have since pleaded guilty to wire  fraud.

Ultimately, three people were indicted* based on eBay's internal probe of its  affiliate marketers. The company sued them all for its money back, too. Hogan  and Dunning recently pleaded guilty to a single charge of wire fraud each. They  have not yet been sentenced, but they both potentially face up to 20 years in  prison. 
 

Skeptoid isn't anymore reliable than you or your fran billie-jz.

http://www.businessinsider.com...brian-dunning-2013-4

Hey CON LOOPY

Tell me what you don't believe about the Guadalupe image on the tilma.

.

This couple is praying before the nuptials. He does not want to see his bride until they are at the altar so he is sitting around the corner

Origin: During the time when arranged marriages were custom, the betrothed couple wasn’t allowed to see each other before the wedding at all. The wedding symbolized a business deal between two families (romantic, huh?), and a father would have been pleased for his daughter to marry a man from a rich, land-owning family. But he also feared that if the groom met the bride before the wedding and thought she wasn’t attractive, he’d call off the wedding, casting shame onto the bride and her family. Therefore, it became tradition that the bride and groom were only allowed to meet at the wedding ceremony so that the groom did not have the opportunity to change his mind. And that veil the bride wears? Its original purpose was also to keep the groom from finding out what the bride looked like until the last possible minute, when it was too late to back out of the transaction.

It's never too late until you say I do. That's why the groom has a Best Man,

to run interference so he can make a getaway. Or when they might try to

sneak a guy on to the groom, like they do in Vermont. The victim needs to be

ready against anything.

Gee vic, who worries about the poor woman's escape plan? 

The - poor woman - never was worried about it in the first place. If she

sees the need to saddle up, she will have a headache of convenience

and slightly tap the back of her head during the fainting spell which will

result in amnesia. Notice they never hit their face pulling off this type

of escape.