Skip to main content

Excellent interview in US News and World Report.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/...d-the-nsa?src=usn_tw

What I've suspected all along:

"Every one of the programs the NSA was running in foreign intelligence surveillance was approved by the House and Senate intelligence committees, White House, the attorney general and the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) Court. Every program was authorized and approved, and whatever one thinks of the programs, it was not a case of running amok or exceeding its authority. If there were extensive criticisms of the programs, the fault rests with the government entities that approved and authorized them."

What I've known all along:

"The more I worked with the NSA, the more respect I had for them as far as staying within the bounds of what they were authorized to do. And they were careful and had a high degree of integrity. My superficial assumption of the NSA being a bad guy was completely wrong."

 

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

The U.S. Government does not spy on U.S. citizens through the NSA or CIA.  Such activity is prohibited by Presidential Executive Order and NSA and CIA directives.  Any individual within those organizations that does so without written permission from the Attorney General of the U.S. is subject to criminal prosecution. 

If the article would be read, one would find that the interviewee was "a member of the National Advisory Council of the American Civil Liberties Union."  No where in the interview does he accuse the NSA of spying on U.S. citizens and he does not condemn the programs in question. 

The statement "Snowden revealed the enormity of government spying on its citizens" is merely parroting the 24 hour news system which is more concerned with sensationalism for the purpose of bolstering ratings than actually doing factual reporting.

OldSalt posted:

So, what spying was done?

Here is one of a number of examples:

"The CIA’s ongoing defiance of congressional authority continued during a closed-door meeting last week after Director John Brennan refused to tell lawmakers who authorized the illegal surveillance of Senate Intelligence Committee computers, which were used to compile a report on the agency’s interrogation practices. 

“I’m concerned there’s disrespect towards the Congress,” Senate Armed Services Committee chairman and Michigan Democrat Carl Levin said in a McClatchy report. “I think it’s arrogant, I think it’s unacceptable.” 

Hours before a closed meeting with Brennan and Director of National Security James Clapper on Tuesday, the committee received written notification that Brennan was refusing to answer questions posed to him by California Democrat and Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein. 

Among those questions were who authorized CIA personnel to infiltrate committee computers, which were used to compile a thorough report on the agency’s Bush-era War on Terror torture interrogation techniques — a report which has yet to be released, as the agency and committee officials continue to spar over redactions"

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/09...pying/#ixzz499uY0nM6

There are other examples of intelligence agencies spying on congress and refusing to give further details.  If, they spy on congress, no limits exist as to any US citizen they will spy on without warrants.

Last edited by direstraits
OldSalt posted:

To use a federal government computer or to access a government network, one is required to give consent to monitoring of activity by the cognizant security agency.  So, no illegal spying there, but a big conflict of interest.

Where did the congress give permission from congress to spied upon?   A government security agency can't give itself permission to commit an illegal act.

OldSalt posted:

Here's one.  Think it was passed by congress.

18 U.S. Code § 1030 - Fraud and related activity in connection with computers

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030

Yes, but as to the government, it only applies to the Executive Branch and not the Legislative or Judicial Branches. Under the separation of powers, no branch may give away its powers to another branch.

A particular example is that of William (Cold Cash) Jefferson.  A member of congress, suspected of bribery, the FBI obtained search warrants to his home and office on Capitol Hill (the first ever such warrant for a congressional office).

The evidence seized in the congressional office was denied by an appeals court, "the search were “insufficient to protect the privilege” that the Constitution granted to Congress to operate without interference from the executive branch."  

http://vendomeplace.org/willia...rtpartlyrebuffs.html

Fortunately, there was enough evidence procured elsewhere to convict Jefferson.

 

OldSalt posted:

That was a non-consenting search.  With government computers, the person using the computer consents to monitoring, especially if classified information is stored on or processed by the computer.

I don't think what the CIA did was proper, but it was not illegal, and it was not spying.

It was not incompliance with the act you cited. The CIA is part of the Executive Branch, it can't legally spy on the Legislative and Judicial Branches, period.  Congress and the Judicial branches are responsible for their own surveillance. 

The DC area is a true jigsaw puzzle. There are about 28 different law enforcement agencies -- all with their own jurisdictions and restrictions as to their authority.

That's a silly request.  You and I both know there is nothing like that in the Constitution.  But, here's the rub.  The Constitution give the President the power to conduct foreign relations.  In order to do this, it has been decided that he needs information other than that in the public media.  So (short version), the intelligence agencies were created in order to fulfill that need.  The information they collect is classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret) to protect the sources of the information and the methods used to collect the information.  Only the Executive branch of the government can generate classified information ( could you imagine Congress or the Courts keeping secrets from the public.)  The intelligence agencies have the authority, under the President, to promulgate regulations in order to sa***uard all of this intelligence information, no matter where it is stored. 

And, only the Executive Branch can grant access to the classified intelligence information.  It does not have to share it with Congress or the Courts (and practically never shares it with the courts.)  Congress and the Courts can issue subpoenas, but what they will receive would be so redacted as to be useless.  Congress and the Courts have no right to see any classified information.  But, the Executive branch does share the information with select members of Congress in order for Congress to fulfill its oversight function.  And those members of Congress are required to sa***uard the classified information as required by the Executive branch.  This includes computers that store classified information.  So, if a Congressman's computer stores, or sends and receives classified information, then the CIA has the authority to monitor that computer. 

 

OldSalt posted:

That's a silly request.  You and I both know there is nothing like that in the Constitution.  But, here's the rub.  The Constitution give the President the power to conduct foreign relations.  In order to do this, it has been decided that he needs information other than that in the public media.  So (short version), the intelligence agencies were created in order to fulfill that need.  The information they collect is classified (Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret) to protect the sources of the information and the methods used to collect the information.  Only the Executive branch of the government can generate classified information ( could you imagine Congress or the Courts keeping secrets from the public.)  The intelligence agencies have the authority, under the President, to promulgate regulations in order to sa***uard all of this intelligence information, no matter where it is stored. 

And, only the Executive Branch can grant access to the classified intelligence information.  It does not have to share it with Congress or the Courts (and practically never shares it with the courts.)  Congress and the Courts can issue subpoenas, but what they will receive would be so redacted as to be useless.  Congress and the Courts have no right to see any classified information.  But, the Executive branch does share the information with select members of Congress in order for Congress to fulfill its oversight function.  And those members of Congress are required to sa***uard the classified information as required by the Executive branch.  This includes computers that store classified information.  So, if a Congressman's computer stores, or sends and receives classified information, then the CIA has the authority to monitor that computer. 

 

And, I have shown the court decision that bans subpoenas from being issued by the courts to obtain information from a congressman's office.  Also, that the law you cited says nothing about congress.  Under the constitution, no branch may give their powers to another branch.  If, the executive branch desires to know about misuse of computers within the Capitol or congressional offices, they must request the GAO make the investigation. 

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×