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Christians often assert that religion is necessary to keep a society healthy, happy and moral. They say that a society without God would be immoral, loveless, and miserable. This is not just the position of Pat Robertson and Bill O’Reilly, or even just of mainstream evangelicals. It is even proclaimed by professional Christian philosophers like Keith Ward1 and John Ca****.

Until recently, this assertion could not be tested because all societies were deeply religious. Moreover, the first atheistic societies had atheism forced upon them by brutal dictators (Hoxha’s Albania, Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia), and thus were hardly models of a healthy society.

Only near the dawn of the 21st century did Planet Earth see a few societies of “organic” (unforced) atheism emerge: most notably, Denmark and Sweden.2 So, now that we finally have a natural experiment on the issue, does the data confirm or deny the claim that religion is necessary to maintain a healthy, happy and moral society?

 

Society without God (2008) is sociologist Phil Zuckerman‘s analysis of the societal and moral health of these two atheistic societies.

So, what do the data show about the health, happiness and morality of these non-religious societies?

The data could hardly be clearer. Denmark and Sweden rank among the most well-developed, wealthiest, most democratic, most free, most entrepreneurial, least corrupt, least violent, most peaceful, healthiest, happiest, most egalitarian, best educated, most charitable, and most environmentally compassionate societies in the entire world.

Well-developed

As of the 2008 United Nations’ Human Development Report, which ranks nations on a measure of “human development” (long and healthy life, education, and standard of living), Denmark is 14th and Sweden is 6th. (In contrast, the 50 least-developed nations are all highly religious.) Another “summary” measure is The Economist‘s Quality of Life Index, which ranks Denmark and Sweden 9th and 5th in the world.

Wealthiest

Sweden and Denmark are ranked 17th and 18th in GDP per capita, according to the International Monetary Fund. In fact, the list of the top 20 wealthiest nations in the world is dominated by non-religious nations. Denmark and Sweden rank 3rd and 10th in financial satisfaction. Also note that among the 50 poorest countries on Earth, all are extremely religious.

Most democratic

According to World Audit, Denmark and Sweden are the most democractic nations on earth. The Global Democracy Ranking lists them at #1 and #3. The Economist‘s Democracy Index ranks them 1st and 5th.

Most free

The Heritage Foundation ranks Denmark and Sweden 6th and 11th on economic freedom. They rank 8th and 4th in freedom in decision making. Reporters Without Border ranks them 14th and 7th in press freedom, with Freedom House ranking them 3rd and 5th.

Most entrepreneurial

The World Economic Forum ranks nations by economic competitiveness, and nearly all the top spots are dominated by non-religious nations, including Denmark and Sweden. The same story holds for specific measures of entrepreneurship, for example Denmark and Sweden rank among the top 5 nations where it is cheapest to start a new business.

Least corrupt

Transparency International ranks Denmark and Sweden as the 1st and 4th least corrupt nations on earth.

Least violent

Denmark and Sweden both rank low in murders per capita. Both Fox & Levin (2000) and Fajnzylber et. al. (2002) found that all the nations with high homicide rates were extremely religious, and that the nations with the lowest homicide rates tended to be relatively non-religious. Good statistics on other measures like rape and violent crime are difficult to compile because nations measure crime differently, and such statistics are often more a measure of the effectiveness of a nation’s justice system and a culture’s willingness to report crimes than they are a measure of actual incidences of violence.

Most peaceful

Denmark and Sweden rank 2nd and 6th on the Global Peace Index, whose top ranks are dominated by non-religious nations.

Healthiest

Again, according to the 2008 Human Development Report, Denmark and Sweden are ranked among the top 20 nations on life expectancy, and are ranked 3rd and 4th for the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. UNICEF’s 2007 State of the World’s Children report ranks Denmark, Sweden, and the similarly non-religious Netherlands as the three best countries in the world concerning “child welfare” (their safety, education, and health). In terms of physicians per 100,000 people, Denmark is 14th and Sweden is 6th.

Happiest

Ruut Veenhoven, a leading researcher on world happiness, maintains the World Database of Happiness, a ranking of nations by happiness level. Denmark currently ranks 2nd (behind similarly non-religious Iceland), and Sweden ranks 8th. Another ranking has Denmark and Sweden tied for the 2nd happiest nations on earth. Only 5% of Danes and 4% of Swedes report being “not very happy” or “not at all happy.” Nations with high rates of “organic” atheism do tend to have higher rates of suicide than highly religious nations, and this may be partially explained by their progressive policies about assisted suicide and a lack of religious taboos against suicide. That is, organically non-religious societies let people die how they want to die, rather than prohibiting people from taking their own life into their own hands. But the picture here is confusing. Though Denmark and Sweden do rank among the happiest nations on earth according to several studies, they also rank high in depressive episodes per capita. And yet, they rank 1st and 9th in life satisfaction!

Most egalitarian

According to the CIA World Factbook, Denmark and Sweden have the greatest income equality in the world. And once again we find that most of the most equal countries in the world are non-religious. And how about gender equality? Here, it should not surprise anyone that the list of most gender-equal nations is dominated by non-religious societies, including Denmark and Sweden, which also have the 2nd and 4th highest rates of women in positions of national political power (again, see the UN’s Human Development Report).

Best educated

For literacy, Denmark and Sweden are, of course, at 99%. In terms of government investment in education as a percentage of GDP, Denmark and Sweden rank 8th and 12th. In terms of adults who have finished secondary education, they rank 5th and 7th. Also note that of the 50 countries with the lowest adult literacy rates, all are extremely religious.

Most charitable

Denmark and Sweden rank 5th and 1st in official development assistance as a percentage of Gross National Income. Ranked by percentage of population who are members of volunteer organizations, Denmark and Sweden are 16th and 8th.

Environmentally compassionate

According to the Climate Change Performance Index, Sweden is 1st and Denmark is 7th in terms of doing the most to improve environmental conditions. Yale’s Environmental Performance Index ranks Sweden 3rd and Denmark 26th. Ranked by spending on pollution control as a percentage of GDP, these nations rank 8th and 13th. By percentage of of companies found to be environmentally sustainable, they rank 7th and 8th. Once again, a glance at such lists reveals that the top ranks are dominated by non-religious nations.

I repeat: Denmark and Sweden rank among the most well-developed, wealthiest, most democratic, most free, most entrepreneurial, least corrupt, least violent, most peaceful, healthiest, happiest, most egalitarian, best educated, most charitable, and most environmentally compassionate societies in the entire world.

Clearly, religion is not required to sustain healthy, happy, and moral societies.

For the theist, Zuckerman’s book should be an eye-opener. For the atheist, Society without God is a warehouse of ammunition (facts, statistics, and sources) against claims that religion is a necessary ingredient for healthy, happy, and moral society.

By the way, none of this is meant to suggest that atheism causes healthy societies. The correlation between atheism and societal health merely debunks Christian claims that religion is a necessary ingredient in a healthy society. If there is a causal link between the two at all, I would suspect the reverse: that happiness, success, wealth, education, and security tend to open the door for an abandonment of superstitious crutches.

 

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=3189

 

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A four page read but very interesting.

A to Z Health Guide 2007

 

What Makes Us Moral:

 

If the entire human species were a single individual, that person would long ago have been declared mad. The insanity would not lie in the anger and darkness of the human mind—though it can be a black and raging place indeed. And it certainly wouldn't lie in the transcendent goodness of that mind—one so sublime, we fold it into a larger "soul." The madness would lie instead in the fact that both of those qualities, the savage and the splendid, can exist in one creature, one person, often in one instant.

We're a species that is capable of almost dumbfounding kindness. We nurse one another, romance one another, weep for one another. Ever since science taught us how, we willingly tear the very organs from our bodies and give them to one another. And at the same time, we slaughter one another. The past 15 years of human history are the temporal equivalent of those subatomic particles that are created in accelerators and vanish in a trillionth of a second, but in that fleeting instant, we've visited untold horrors on ourselves—in Mogadishu, Rwanda, Chechnya, Darfur, Beslan, Baghdad, Pakistan, London, Madrid, Lebanon, Israel, New York City, Abu Ghraib, Oklahoma City, an Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania—all of the crimes committed by the highest, wisest, most principled species the planet has produced. That we're also the lowest, cruelest, most blood-drenched species is our shame—and our paradox.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1685055_1685076_1686619,00.html #ixzz1bhnn1SCc

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dark,

Now, that, my Friend is truly an oxymoron -- Common Sense and Atheism together.  Anyone with sense enough to look around at the beauty of nature has to realize that only God could create such a wonder.

Bill

 

______________________________________________________

Anyone with any sense would know that you are not a Christian.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dark,

 

Now, that, my Friend is truly an oxymoron -- Common Sense and Atheism together.  Anyone with sense enough to look around at the beauty of nature has to realize that only God could create such a wonder.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Psalm-145-14

__________________

Bill, do you ever take off your blinders?

The Social Democratic Party pursues environmentalist and feminist policies which promote healthful and humane conditions. Feminist policies formed and implemented by the Social Democratic Party and the Left Party and the Greens (which made an arrangement with the Social democrats to support the government, while not forming a coalition), include paid maternity and paternity leave, high employment for women in the public sector, combining flexible work with living wages and benefits, providing public support for women in their traditional responsibilities for care giving, and policies to stimulate women's political participation and leadership. Reviewing policies and institutional practices for their impact on women had become common in social democratic governance.[52]

The legacy of Social Democratic Party governance in Sweden is widely regarded as increasing the quality of life, naturally among those who benefit directly from an affluent, low-inequality society, but even among the wealthy. One Volvo executive admitted that a strong social welfare state, like the Swedish, helps finance a quality of life that low individual taxes cannot. When faced with the question, "Why don't you leave (Sweden)? Certainly, you would pay a lot lower taxes and probably also have a higher salary in the U.S.", he responded, "Yes, of course, I would have a lot more money in my pocket. But I would also almost never get home before 7 o'clock and I certainly would not have the vacations everyone has a right to here... and you know what else, I would have to spend a lot more money on insurance, college for my kids, and travel back home to my family. In the end, I'm not really sure I would be any better off."[43]

That's a pretty broad brush you painted with there b50m. What makes you think they make no decisions about their lives?

 

Obviously their way of life is better than ours here. They have more money, better education, less crime, healthier citizens, better environment, and more freedoms than we do in our society. All this and more atheism too. So what is it that you think they are lacking?

 

Socialist Democracy has nothing to do with the quality of life and freedom they have there. They have a democratic vote just as we do. So they make the big decision and the most important ones. Apparently they as a society have decided they want to feed their hungry and make their country more equal for everyone. Seems to be working. It has been for quite sometime now.

 

I like this too...

"The World Economic Forum ranks nations by economic competitiveness, and nearly all the top spots are dominated by non-religious nations, including Denmark and Sweden. The same story holds for specific measures of entrepreneurship, for example Denmark and Sweden rank among the top 5 nations where it is cheapest to start a new business.

Least corrupt

Transparency International ranks Denmark and Sweden as the 1st and 4th least corrupt nations on earth."

 

 

Yes, they vote. But here we have to decide can we send our kid to a preschool? Which one? Can we afford it?  Can we send our kid to college? Which one? What type of house do we want? (There they are all pretty much uniform and small) Which doctor do I trust? What hospital do I want to use? What health plan do i want?

All of those decisions are gone. You get what the government gives you. And they have less money to spend, not more.

 

So if I didn't have to decide anything for myself or my family, i would be relaxed too.

 

 

As for cheapest to start a new business, that is why the US needs to change it politics.

I just spent some time looking up these things b50m. In reality they have all those choices too. Their schools are fantastic. Daycare and pre-schools are optional and many mothers chose to just stay home and care for their small children because they are given 52 weeks of maternity leave!!! Matter of fact after looking at their real estate I would love to live there. Or at least have a second home there. It's a beautiful country and the homes are as different as ours here. Some small cottages and some estates. Lots of quaint little villages.  There are private hospitals and insurance.They have a higher rate of college graduates than the US does and they score higher on testing. They have many choices in where to go to college too. Whether they can afford more prestigious colleges for their children is no different than here in the US. We can't send our kids to just any college if we can't afford the cost. The only difference in them and us is that no matter what your child can still get a college education if they so desire, regardless of their families ability to pay.

 

They vacation more than any one else in the world. They must have more time to spend with family and friends than we do and the funds to allow that too. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

I am not opposed to universal health care. I am all for it. Denmark is a very good example of how it can be done and it be successful.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

The Social Democratic Party pursues environmentalist and feminist policies which promote healthful and humane conditions. Feminist policies formed and implemented by the Social Democratic Party and the Left Party and the Greens (which made an arrangement with the Social democrats to support the government, while not forming a coalition), include paid maternity and paternity leave, high employment for women in the public sector, combining flexible work with living wages and benefits, providing public support for women in their traditional responsibilities for care giving, and policies to stimulate women's political participation and leadership. Reviewing policies and institutional practices for their impact on women had become common in social democratic governance.[52]

The legacy of Social Democratic Party governance in Sweden is widely regarded as increasing the quality of life, naturally among those who benefit directly from an affluent, low-inequality society, but even among the wealthy. One Volvo executive admitted that a strong social welfare state, like the Swedish, helps finance a quality of life that low individual taxes cannot. When faced with the question, "Why don't you leave (Sweden)? Certainly, you would pay a lot lower taxes and probably also have a higher salary in the U.S.", he responded, "Yes, of course, I would have a lot more money in my pocket. But I would also almost never get home before 7 o'clock and I certainly would not have the vacations everyone has a right to here... and you know what else, I would have to spend a lot more money on insurance, college for my kids, and travel back home to my family. In the end, I'm not really sure I would be any better off."[43]

_____________________________________________________________________________

I know you won't answer me, Jennifer, but I'll ask anyway. It SEEMS from this post, that you are saying this is a good thing. I assume you posted it to help back up DA's claim that life is better in an atheist country.

 

And yet, if that IS what you are saying, then you are also saying life is better in a country run by Social Democrats?

 

Now, as for myself, as a Democrat, I believe that they aren't doing too bad. And I can reconcile that with my Christianity because as a Christian, I am all for helping the poor, whether they be believers or atheists or agnostic.

 


 

When an atheist says there is no god/gods it's a given that means all of them. That also means all believers are atheists too since they don't believe each other's gods exist. If you think christians don't retaliate and haven't retaliated you'd be dead wrong and you have forgotten a whole lot of history.  You have radical factions of christians just like there are radical factions of islam.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

When an atheist says there is no god/gods it's a given that means all of them. That also means all believers are atheists too since they don't believe each other's gods exist. If you think christians don't retaliate and haven't retaliated you'd be dead wrong and you have forgotten a whole lot of history.  You have radical factions of christians just like there are radical factions of islam.

Those  other believers would not be atheists. They would be 'monotheists' if I'm not mistaken.

Originally Posted by Gingee:
Originally Posted by Gingee:

Why do we never see atheist denial of the God of Muslims? 

Could it be that they know Christians will not retaliate and they fear Muslims will?

==========================

The religion of Muslims is just a perversion of the Jewish religion.

The Christians are just Jews that believe Jesus is the son of God

and went in a different direction with the teaching of Jesus.

What was the great nation God said he was going to make from the baby

Ismael.

 

Originally Posted by Gingee:
Originally Posted by Gingee:

Why do we never see atheist denial of the God of Muslims? 

Could it be that they know Christians will not retaliate and they fear Muslims will?

______________________________

 

I don't believe in any gods.

Since this forum is primarily Christian it is that god that is discussed the most.  If you frequent national forums then you will see other gods discussed more. I don't fear the Muslims anymore than the Christians. The comments left on national news forums during the 9/11 cross debate showed that Christians can and are just as vile and murderous when they feel their religion is not being given enough respect, or allowed to rule over the rest of us.

 

The only Christian in this forum that has ever been seriously threatening was Ramm/Buffalo/okuok etc. He made some pretty scary threats and comments.

 

Originally Posted by b50m:

One minor point. The Scandinavian countries are examples of democratic socialism, not democracies.

Since the government takes care of everything and they pay about 50% of their income in taxes, they don't have any money or desire to do anything.


I'm not sure where you got your information, but I happen to know some lovely people from a couple of those countries and they are wonderful caring, productive people just like anyone else.  They work hard, study hard, and are amazing!  I am honored to call them friends, and your description just isn't true.  Every country has some people as you describe, but surely you don't believe that the majority of people in those countries are lazy and unmotivated?  

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dark,

 

Now, that, my Friend is truly an oxymoron -- Common Sense and Atheism together.  Anyone with sense enough to look around at the beauty of nature has to realize that only God could create such a wonder.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Psalm-145-14


She didn't say no one should be religious or shouldn't allowed to be, or that one couldn't be to be happy.  She was saying simply that it wasn't essential for a healthy and productive society and gave data to show it.  So you have to come right back calling her Friend on the one hand while calling atheists incapable of having common sense.  Then you say only people with common sense see things your way.  Then you sign off telling the people you just insulted to have a blessed and wonderful day.   

 

Nice.

Originally Posted by b50m:

As I said, the government takes care of everything. I guess if you want your life to be full of no decisions to make about anything, it would be utopia.


Have you lived there or do you know people who live there well so that you know this to be true, or could it be a political opinion perhaps?

 

That really isn't how it is at all there...believe me, they make plenty of decisions and have challenges as anyone does.  They just happen to have a system of government that values human dignity and worth and one that works for the people.  No government is perfect, but the people aren't sitting around being waited on and told what to do...quite the contrary. 

Originally Posted by lexum:

Dark, we are still waiting on an explanation of why you posted bad information. Does the atheist license allow you to lie to mankind.  Never mind it doesn’t count if the atheist lies.


Why do you have to assume she is lying and make nasty comments about every other person in her group...or anyone's, for that matter?  Nice.

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