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Split Over Same-Sex Marriage

BestworkingBestworkingOld Faithful

hg> i absolutely would personally question my pastor if i had knowledge of info leading to unbiblical marriage..but i would not hunt down info to check people out. God can certainly bring darkness to Light.

our church requires marriage counselling for a period of time before the wedding. there would be ample time to contact him with contrary info.. beyond that, i'd think the responsibility of truth would be on the couple. i don't believe a pastor would be held accountable in marrying a couple who'd lied about it, just so they could be married.

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You can act like you don't know what I'm talking about, but I know you do. You wouldn't say squat and I'm sure you know plenty of people who are divorced and remarried who have living ex-spouses, and plenty your preacher has performed the ceremonies for, knowing the same thing.

canadecanadePost Master
Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
 
Originally Posted by Red Baron:
 
So Christ's death on the cross cannot save me from my future sins? So if I'm going 56 miles an hour in a 55 zone have a heart attack and die I will find myself in hell? Wow that's really some grace going on there.
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I didn't say that - or, perhaps more appropriate, that is not what I meant to say. I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer... But, then again, perhaps it serves as a more important learning moment. That is that we are all mere mortals prone to error and sinful by nature.
 
Christ's death on the cross erased all of the sins from mankind to that point... Further it provided an opportunity to wash away our individual sins by accepting Christ as our savior and forsake further sin. What it doesn't forgive is someone who "accepts" Christ as their savior and continues to live in a life of sin and expects salvation for those future sins, while not accepting responsibilities for them... In other words, OSAS.
 
IMHO One cannot accept Christ as our savior and expect that one time act of salvation to apply, automatically, to all future sins that we may commit... We all sin daily... Though some refuse to accept this... Christ will cleanse us of those future sins as they occur and as we accept responsibility for those sins.
 
How do we gain this forgiveness? Through daily prayer... 
 

Why daily prayer?

 

Quite simply, for followers of Jesus Christ prayer is the best way to communicate with God. Prayer is the vehicle for daily dialog with the One who created us. The importance of daily communication through prayer cannot be overestimated. It is so important that it is mentioned over 250 times in Scripture. So why is daily prayer so important? First, daily prayer gives us an opportunity to share all aspects of our lives with God. Second, daily prayer gives us the chance to express our gratitude for the things He provides. Third, daily prayer provides the platform for confessing our sin and asking for help in overcoming that sin. Fourth, daily prayer is an act of worship and obedience. And finally, daily prayer is a way to acknowledge who is really in control of our lives.
 
Now Christ, when instructing the desciples on prayer, taught them what has now become known as The Lord's Pray (traditional):
 
Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come. 
Thy will be done in earth, 
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us. 
And lead us not into temptation, 
But deliver us from evil. 
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.
 
Now I ask, why would one in daily prayer need to ask forgiveness if OSAS pertained...
 
IMHO, The Lord's Prayer itself negates OSAS...
 
Now, with regard to your comment regarding having a fatal accident due a heart attack, I think the answer is self evident - If you are right with Christ, He knows your heart...
 _____
 
Great post!

 

thehippiegirl is gone.thehippiegirl is gone.Post Master
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

hg> i absolutely would personally question my pastor if i had knowledge of info leading to unbiblical marriage..but i would not hunt down info to check people out. God can certainly bring darkness to Light.

our church requires marriage counselling for a period of time before the wedding. there would be ample time to contact him with contrary info.. beyond that, i'd think the responsibility of truth would be on the couple. i don't believe a pastor would be held accountable in marrying a couple who'd lied about it, just so they could be married.

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Best> You can act like you don't know what I'm talking about, but I know you do.

hg> i do know what you're talking about, or i wouldn't have responded.


Best> You wouldn't say squat...

hg> truth is, i have said 'squat' and more, questioning what i was told. in that instance, i'd been given the wrong information.


Best> and I'm sure you know plenty of people who are divorced and remarried who have living ex-spouses

hg> yes i do, but unless i have first-hand knowledge to share with the pastor beforehand, it's between them and God.


Best> and plenty your preacher has performed the ceremonies for, knowing the same thing.

hg> to my knowledge, our pastor (and many others i'm sure) marries in line with God's commands. if he has done otherwise, i'm not aware of it, and only he will answer to God for it.

tho God expects Christians to stand up for His principles, He doesn't tell us to be 'God-detectives'. He is more than capable of bringing darkness to Light, any way He chooses.

Best, i wish you His Peace<><

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful

Hi Hippie Girl,

 

What you have said in true -- no reputable pastor would marry folks without first having them attend Marriage Counseling, which is typically about six weeks.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, about ten years ago we had a lady join our local fellowship.  She was a good addition to our church family.

 

But, after about a year, she came to our pastor with a request that he marry her daughter and the daughter's live-in boy friend.  Turns out she was pregnant and expecting in about a month -- and mom wanted their baby to be legit.

 

Our pastor told her about the six weeks of Marriage Counseling, which would have had the wedding occurring after the child was born.  But, the pastor could not change what we all knew was Biblical -- just to accommodate her.   This is the problem we have in many liberal churches today -- they are too eager to accommodate society's morals, rather than work to change those morals.

 

The lady got angry and left our church fellowship.  And, we never heard if she found a pastor who was willing to bend the rules to accommodate her.

 

Personally, I believe our pastor was right.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

BestworkingBestworkingOld Faithful

 to my knowledge, our pastor (and many others i'm sure) marries in line with God's commands. if he has done otherwise, i'm not aware of it, and only he will answer to God for it.

tho God expects Christians to stand up for His principles, He doesn't tell us to be 'God-detectives'. He is more than capable of bringing darkness to Light, any way He chooses.


==========================

You know very well I'm referring to people that you and your pastor know are marrying each other with ex-spouses still alive. What is "in line" with your god's command? 

thehippiegirl is gone.thehippiegirl is gone.Post Master
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Best, i wish you His Peace


===========================
 Surely you're not referring to the vengeful monster you worship. The one you claim killed his own son because he couldn't handle his own creations and somebody had to pay the price.  I have peace, and I don't have to grovel to a skydaddy to get it.


hg> the God i worship isn't a vengeful monster. He is kind and loving, generous to a fault, with enough grace and mercy to cover every mistake i make. He loves me unconditionally. had God been 'unable to handle' His creation, He could have killed them as easily as He created them. He wouldn't have needed the death of His Son to accomplish that.


you are mistaken about why God allowed His only Son to take the cross for us. it's not because He didn't love His Son or needed a 'scape goat', but because He loves us all that much, you included. He allowed the sacrifice of One, so that salvation could be offered to all. Holy blood had to pour out from a perfect sacrifice to be our covering.


Jesus conquered death when He arose. He's alive and well in Heaven with His Father, and if we choose to become God's adopted sons and daughters, we will join Him there someday. God allowed the sacrifice of One son, to save the eternal lives of all His sons and daughters. i believe that speaks volumes of God's great Love for us.


Best, i wish you could know His great Love for you, and have His peace that passes all understanding. that kind of peace comes through no other way but Him. hg<><

BestworkingBestworkingOld Faithful

Best, i wish you could know His great Love for you, and have His peace that passes all understanding. that kind of peace comes through no other way but Him.


=============================


Once more, I'm not interested in the "love" of a mythical monster, and I can't see what you think is so kind about it either. I have peace, a better more satisfying peace then you will ever know. 

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful

Hi Hippie Girl,

 

Reading your dialogue with Jennifer Best makes me think of Moses, Aaron, and Pharaoh.  God allowed Pharaoh to harden his heart -- and nothing Moses or Aaron could say would change that.   In the end, we know that Pharaoh suffered great loss because of his heart condition.

 

Trying to have a civil dialogue with Jennifer Best regarding God -- is like "spitting into the wind" -- for, even if, down deep, she wants to believe what we are telling her -- her pride would never allow her to admit it.

 

In such a situation, all we can do is to pray for her -- and move on to more fruitful dialogues with others who do not have the Pharaoh syndrome.  

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

ContendahContendahOld Faithful
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 Bill Gray--you posted this:


"As I mentioned in an earlier post, about ten years ago we had a lady join our local fellowship.  She was a good addition to our church family.

 

But, after about a year, she came to our pastor with a request that he marry her daughter and the daughter's live-in boy friend.  Turns out she was pregnant and expecting in about a month -- and mom wanted their baby to be legit.

 

Our pastor told her about the six weeks of Marriage Counseling, which would have had the wedding occurring after the child was born.  But, the pastor could not change what we all knew was Biblical -- just to accommodate her.    

 

Personally, I believe our pastor was right.

 

________

 

What, pray tell, is "Biblical" about the imposition of a requirement for marriage counselling? Counselling is often beneficial, but when some "pastor" demands it as a prerequisite to performing a wedding ceremony, and insists that it is a Biblical requirement, I have to ask just where in his Bible he found that requirement.

Thus, when you say that you believe the "pastor" to be "right," I have to ask YOU: Where YOU find this in your Bible?  Book chapter and verse, please.  And some book, chapter, or verse from some Calvary Chapel cult manual will not do. Either the Bible specifies this kind of prerequisite or it does not.  If you believe it does, then ante up your proof FROM THE BIBLE.

 

 

 

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful

Hi Contendah,

 

Let me ask you this, Contendah:  If a couple comes to a pastor and he knows they have been living in sin, i.e., living together without being married -- should he just ignore that fact and give them a Christian wedding?

 

Or, should he first counsel them on what God teaches about marriage, and the Christian life, before performing the Christian wedding?   Why would people who are blatantly living in an unChristian arrangement want a Christian wedding anyway?  Obviously, this was to satisfy her mother -- not to be right with God.

 

Would you, if you were a pastor, officiate at and bless a such a wedding, without first talking with the couple about God and His requirements for Christian marriage?

 

Yes, I agree that our pastor was right.  Why do you believe he was wrong?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

thehippiegirl is gone.thehippiegirl is gone.Post Master
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Best, i wish you could know His great Love for you, and have His peace that passes all understanding. that kind of peace comes through no other way but Him.


=============================


Once more, I'm not interested in the "love" of a mythical monster, and I can't see what you think is so kind about it either. I have peace, a better more satisfying peace then you will ever know. 

hg> Best, if you've never known God's indescribable love and peace, there is no way to understand what it is. indeed i've had the same world's peace you have, and there is no comparison. you will never be able to 'see' what He offers till you accept God as Lord of your life. only then you can live in His great Love and receive His kindness, mercy, grace, and all the other amazing things He has for His children.

i pray your revelation comes soon<><

BestworkingBestworkingOld Faithful

Best, if you've never known God's indescribable love and peace, there is no way to understand what it is. indeed i've had the same world's peace you have, and there is no comparison. you will never be able to 'see' what He offers till you accept God as Lord of your life. only then you can live in His great Love and receive His kindness, mercy, grace, and all the other amazing things He has for His children.

i pray your revelation comes soon<><


-----------------------

This is going no where because apparently you don't understand English  I have love and peace, kindness and all that. To even think about wanting more than I have now would indeed be greedy. I don't have any longings or empty spots in my life that need filling, and IF I did I certainly wouldn't turn to a mythical monster like your god. I think it's you that needs to figure out why you need a god in your life, especially one like you worship. 


thehippiegirl is gone.thehippiegirl is gone.Post Master
  1. <---- i can't seem to remove these numbers.
  2. sorry Best, i overlooked this....
Best> You know very well I'm referring to people that you and your pastor know are marrying each other with ex-spouses still alive. What is "in line" with your god's command? 
 
hg> 
*my personal belief is that the reason for previous divorce should be addressed. i believe an adulterer can not marry anyone else and remain in God's will. i believe that the 'innocent' spouse is free of the marriage when the bond is broken through adultery. 
*i was raised to believe that adultery is the only cause for divorce. but i believe one can leave a marriage for other reasons (abuse for example), but must remain alone.
*i believe if a Christian is married to a non-believer, it's wise that they remain together if the non-believer wants to continue in the marriage. i believe quite often in this case, the believer's life will be such a loving example of Christ, the non-believer could be drawn to Jesus through it. 
  1. Luke 16:18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
  2. 11. "(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 
    12. But to the rest I say (Paul <--my note), not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 
    13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 
    14. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy."

    what do you believe Best?
    hg<><
thehippiegirl is gone.thehippiegirl is gone.Post Master

Best> 

This is going no where because apparently you don't understand English  I have love and peace, kindness and all that. To even think about wanting more than I have now would indeed be greedy. hg> perhaps greedy by the world's standards. but God's love, peace, and kindness are limitless, endless, with plenty to continually cover us all. no greediness in receiving all our Dad has for us.


Best> I don't have any longings or empty spots in my life that need filling, and IF I did I certainly wouldn't turn to a mythical monster like your god.

hg> 'feelings' come from the flesh. God's gifts don't hinge on how we feel, but are rooted so deep within us that they are part of our very being. and these gifts become our way of life, not dependent on our situations or circumstances. we have His peace in the midst of any storm, and His unspeakable joy while enduring sorrow. we find ourselves kind during situations filled with unkindness, dishonor, or anything else that should invoke anger in us. we have patience where the world would explode with hateful rants. we truly love those who hate us and our God, because we know they are unaware of who God created them to be in Him, as we all once did.


 I think it's you that needs to figure out why you need a god in your life, especially one like you worship. 

hg> i know exactly why i need God. He created me (and you), and without Him we wouldn't even be here. in fact without Him, there would be no earth or sky, no creation at all.

He pours His goodness and favor on my life, and loves me unconditionally. He fills my heart with joy, and He loves me enough to prepare things for me in Heaven beyond my wildest imagination. His generosity overwhelms me. His great Love consumes me. i will gratefully live for Him all the days of my life, and spend eternity praising and worshipping Him forever and ever.


Best, do you believe you are self-sufficient, with no need of any one/thing else? where do you believe yourself and everything on earth came from? if you've said previously, sorry but i don't remember. thx hg<><

BestworkingBestworkingOld Faithful

Best, do you believe you are self-sufficient, with no need of any one/thing else? where do you believe yourself and everything on earth came from? if you've said previously, sorry but i don't remember. thx hg<><


======================


Self-sufficient? I could be if needed, but I have plenty to fill my needs. I have a family I love and that loves me, we have wonderful friends that we love and love us. I've said a hundred times that I don't know for sure how we came to be here, but I don't obsess about it either. I listen to, and read about, all theories. If they make any sense to me I read more, if they don't make sense, like your god theory, I discard them. 

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