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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

OVER THE YEARS, WHEN I HAVE WRITTEN that God was evicted from our public schools in 1963, atheists and other non-believers, even some liberal Christians -- have vehemently said that is not true.  When I have written that, since 1963, God and absolute values have been replaced in our public schools by Relativism, relative moral values (if it feels right to you, it is right for you) -- atheists, other non-believers, and some liberal Christians have accused me of lying.

Well, I want to submit this recent video of a young student's experience in a Florida public school -- when, during "free reading time" he chose to read his Bible.  In the video you can see the teachers reaction -- when she tells the student's father, "He is not allowed to read 'those books' in MY classroom."  This is sad -- and it is not an isolated situation:

 

Teacher Tells Student He Can't Read The Bible In Classroom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUqTVOHEYVo

 

After you have viewed that video, I invite you to click on the following URL link I found when I Googled this -- "Teacher tells student he can't read the Bible in classroom":

 

https://www.youtube.com/result...ible+in+classroom%22

 

On that YouTube page you will find a number of other situations -- very much like the one in the first video:  God and Bible not allowed!

How do you feel about that situation?  Do you feel that the Liberal Secular society and government leadership has crossed the boundary of common sense?  I do.  And, that is why I will vote to remove all Liberals and RINOs from office. 

I realize that the same kind of people who want God totally removed from our society, who want God totally out of our schools -- are the SAME kind of people on the TimesDaily Religion Forum who will run crying to the Forum Admin and Mods demanding that this post be taken off the Religion Forum -- because Bill Gray mentioned "voting" -- and that makes it a political discussion.

NO, my Friends.  First, there is no way to separate our Christian faith and the running of our government.  But, this post is ALL about God, the Bible, and a student's right to read his Bible during "free reading time" in his school.  This is about our Christian rights, the right to NOT keep God locked in the closet -- just because His Word troubles atheists and other non-believers.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

 

Politics and Religion Mixed

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I watched the video, Bill, and it included a description of how this issue was resolved in favor of the student.  It quoted a written policy of the county school system that permits Bibles to be brought into public schools and also permits students to read their Bibles during free reading time.  The fault in this case and in others like it is the failure of the classroom teacher to know and implement the actual policy of the school system relative to Bible reading.  I have often posted on this forum a detailed and lengthy list of religious activities that are permitted in public schools of this nation. That list is within a joint statement published by the ACLU in cooperation with about 30 religious organizations.  You consistently--and stupidly--attempt to reject that information on the basis of its origin.  For the benefit of those who care to learn some truth in this matter, I am posting below a link to this joint statement:

 

https://www.aclu.org/religion-...igion-public-schools

 

So continue your ill-founded jeremiads against the alleged plots to remove Bibles, prayer, and other religious activities from the public school setting, Bill, if that helps you to feel like some kind of righteous champion of all that is good and true.  I, for one, will continue to support the permitted voluntary, student-directed activities described in the link above.  But I will oppose any and all initiatives that would give public school (government) officials the latitude to prescribe the content of religious observances directed and controlled by them.

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You seem to always quote the ACLU in matters relating to the Christian faith versus the secular society.  Where do you find your god, in the ACLU's Socialism/Communism - OR - in the Bible?    Let's take a look at your ACLU:

 

The ACLU's Shocking Legacy
http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31979/

 

From its very beginning, the ACLU had strong socialist and communist ties. As early as 1931, the U.S. Congress was alarmed by the ACLU’s devotion to communism. A report by the Special House Committee to Investigate Communist Activities stated:

 

The American Civil Liberties Union is closely affiliated with the communist movement in the United States, and fully 90 percent of its efforts are on behalf of communists who have come into conflict with the law. It claims to stand for free speech, free press and free assembly, but it is quite apparent that the main function of the ACLU is an attempt to protect the communists.

 

Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman founded the ACLU in 1920 along with three other organizations dedicated to the most leftist of causes.  The histories of these two individuals belie their claims of patriotism and respect for the Constitution.

 

Baldwin openly sought the utter destruction of American society.  Fifteen years after the founding of the ACLU, Baldwin wrote:

 

I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself … I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth.  Communism is the goal.

 

Earl Browder, the general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States, admitted that the ACLU served as a “transmission belt” for the party.  Baldwin agreed, claiming, I don’t regret being a part of the communist tactic which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.”

 

Baldwin was a devoted follower of the anarchist Emma Goldman (or “Red Emma” as she was called), who was eventually deported to the Soviet Union in 1919 for her communist activities.  Goldman was a consistent promoter of anarchism, radical education, “free love” and birth control.  According to an online exhibit of Goldman’s papers, her career “served as inspiration for Roger Baldwin, a future founder of the American Civil Liberties Union.”

 

So, my Friend, I must ask:  Are you Christian?  Or, are you an ACLU Socialist/Communist?

 

Contendah, who do you serve?   Think Joshua 24:15.

 

Personally, I feel much safer being on God's team.   But, you choose the team which makes you happy; at least for now.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Joshua 24-15 - Sunset

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Crusty, my Friend,

 

One thing you can take to the bank!   Bill Gray is going to be on the TimesDaily Religion Forum until God decides to give me a new ministry.  And, I don't expect to see that happening any time soon.

 

So, here I am -- and here I will stay; sharing God's Word -- even with those of you who deny Him, His Word, and all things Christian. 

 

Looks like I will be seeing your childish, inane, rambling rants for a long time.   And, who knows, some of the Gospel just might break through that anti-God barrier you have surrounding you.

 

Bless your little non-believing heart!

 

Bill

1 - Will Work For Jesus_Outline

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quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

There is nothing childish, inane or ranting about the truth.  Once of us is a proven liar, the other isn't.

Crusty, my Friend,

 

THAT IS TRUE!  And, the real test will come when believers stand before Jesus Christ at the Believers' Judgment.   I WILL be there.   I can only pray that you change your direction and join us in the Family of God.

 

Otherwise, YOUR judgment time will be the day of the Great White Throne Judgment.  And, that is not a judgment that anyone with a lick of sense would look forward to experiencing.

 

Crusty, my Friend, I cannot say which judgment YOU will experience:  Believers' Judgment or Great White Throne Judgment.   I cannot say, but YOU can know. 

 

I really cannot say; but, I can draw intelligent Biblical conclusions -- based upon what Scripture tells us about a born-again Christian believer.   And, my Friend, from what I am seeing of your words and actions here on the Religion Forum -- YOU REALLY DO need a real attitude adjustment when it comes to having a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

I sincerely pray that you will lay aside your ego and your arrogance toward God, His Word, and the Christian faith -- and find a local Christian church fellowship home.  Find one that is Christ-centered, Bible-teaching -- and offers expositional Bible teaching.   That will be a good starting point in you finding "eternal security" in Christ.

 

Or, you can continue to huff and puff, blasting God, the Bible, Jesus Christ, and all who try to share with you about the Christian faith.  The choice is yours.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 - Bible_Open-FAMILY-GROW

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quote:   Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:

Please don't feed the troll....  thank you.... 

Dove, my Friend,

 

So, that is how you deal with Christians, right?  If they disagree with you -- they are trolls and should be blocked?   Man, talk about a closed mind!  Sad.

 

Question:  Who do YOU work for -- and who do YOU work against?

 

Bless your little closed heart!

 

Bill

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You seem to always quote the ACLU in matters relating to the Christian faith versus the secular society.  Where do you find your god, in the ACLU's Socialism/Communism - OR - in the Bible?    Let's take a look at your ACLU:

 

The ACLU's Shocking Legacy
http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31979/

 

From its very beginning, the ACLU had strong socialist and communist ties. As early as 1931, the U.S. Congress was alarmed by the ACLU’s devotion to communism. A report by the Special House Committee to Investigate Communist Activities stated:

 

The American Civil Liberties Union is closely affiliated with the communist movement in the United States, and fully 90 percent of its efforts are on behalf of communists who have come into conflict with the law. It claims to stand for free speech, free press and free assembly, but it is quite apparent that the main function of the ACLU is an attempt to protect the communists.

 

Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman founded the ACLU in 1920 along with three other organizations dedicated to the most leftist of causes.  The histories of these two individuals belie their claims of patriotism and respect for the Constitution.

 

Baldwin openly sought the utter destruction of American society.  Fifteen years after the founding of the ACLU, Baldwin wrote:

 

I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself … I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth.  Communism is the goal.

 

Earl Browder, the general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States, admitted that the ACLU served as a “transmission belt” for the party.  Baldwin agreed, claiming, I don’t regret being a part of the communist tactic which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.”

 

Baldwin was a devoted follower of the anarchist Emma Goldman (or “Red Emma” as she was called), who was eventually deported to the Soviet Union in 1919 for her communist activities.  Goldman was a consistent promoter of anarchism, radical education, “free love” and birth control.  According to an online exhibit of Goldman’s papers, her career “served as inspiration for Roger Baldwin, a future founder of the American Civil Liberties Union.”

 

So, my Friend, I must ask:  Are you Christian?  Or, are you an ACLU Socialist/Communist?

 

Contendah, who do you serve?   Think Joshua 24:15.

 

Personally, I feel much safer being on God's team.   But, you choose the team which makes you happy; at least for now.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

That post just shows how utterly shallow you are, Bill.

 

The "Joint Statement" that I recommended to you is not just something the ACLU devised on its own.  They are joined in the statement by about 30 religious organizations.  The ancient history you dug up from somewhere on the ACLU is not in any way relevant to what is included in the very thoughtful "Joint Statement". Your  juvenile dismissal of it solely on the basis of its origin shows just what a polemically deficient doofus you are.

 

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You seem to always quote the ACLU in matters relating to the Christian faith versus the secular society.  Where do you find your god, in the ACLU's Socialism/Communism - OR - in the Bible?    Let's take a look at your ACLU:

 

The ACLU's Shocking Legacy
http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31979/

 

From its very beginning, the ACLU had strong socialist and communist ties. As early as 1931, the U.S. Congress was alarmed by the ACLU’s devotion to communism. A report by the Special House Committee to Investigate Communist Activities stated:

 

The American Civil Liberties Union is closely affiliated with the communist movement in the United States, and fully 90 percent of its efforts are on behalf of communists who have come into conflict with the law. It claims to stand for free speech, free press and free assembly, but it is quite apparent that the main function of the ACLU is an attempt to protect the communists.

 

Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman founded the ACLU in 1920 along with three other organizations dedicated to the most leftist of causes.  The histories of these two individuals belie their claims of patriotism and respect for the Constitution.

 

Baldwin openly sought the utter destruction of American society.  Fifteen years after the founding of the ACLU, Baldwin wrote:

 

I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself … I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth.  Communism is the goal.

 

Earl Browder, the general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States, admitted that the ACLU served as a “transmission belt” for the party.  Baldwin agreed, claiming, I don’t regret being a part of the communist tactic which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.”

 

Baldwin was a devoted follower of the anarchist Emma Goldman (or “Red Emma” as she was called), who was eventually deported to the Soviet Union in 1919 for her communist activities.  Goldman was a consistent promoter of anarchism, radical education, “free love” and birth control.  According to an online exhibit of Goldman’s papers, her career “served as inspiration for Roger Baldwin, a future founder of the American Civil Liberties Union.”

 

So, my Friend, I must ask:  Are you Christian?  Or, are you an ACLU Socialist/Communist?

 

Contendah, who do you serve?   Think Joshua 24:15.

 

Personally, I feel much safer being on God's team.   But, you choose the team which makes you happy; at least for now.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

That post just shows how utterly shallow you are, Bill.

 

The "Joint Statement" that I recommended to you is not just something the ACLU devised on its own.  They are joined in the statement by about 30 religious organizations.  The ancient history you dug up from somewhere on the ACLU is not in any way relevant to what is included in the very thoughtful "Joint Statement". Your  juvenile dismissal of it solely on the basis of its origin shows just what a polemically deficient doofus you are.

 

Joint Statement of Current Law on Religion in the Public Schools

April 12, 1995

Religion In The Public Schools:
A Joint Statement Of Current Law

The Constitution permits much private religious activity in and about the public schools. Unfortunately, this aspect of constitutional law is not as well known as it should be. Some say that the Supreme Court has declared the public schools "religion-free zones" or that the law is so murky that school officials cannot know what is legally permissible. The former claim is simply wrong. And as to the latter, while there are some difficult issues, much has been settled. It is also unfortunately true that public school officials, due to their busy schedules, may not be as fully aware of this body of law as they could be. As a result, in some school districts some of these rights are not being observed.  

MAKE A DIFFERENCE

Your support helps the ACLU defend religious freedom and a broad range of civil liberties.

GIVE NOW

The organizations whose names appear below span the ideological, religious and political spectrum. They nevertheless share a commitment both to the freedom of religious practice and to the separation of church and state such freedom requires. In that spirit, we offer this statement of consensus on current law as an aid to parents, educators and students.  

Many of the organizations listed below are actively involved in litigation about religion in the schools. On some of the issues discussed in this summary, some of the organizations have urged the courts to reach positions different than they did. Though there are signatories on both sides which have and will press for different constitutional treatments of some of the topics discussed below, they all agree that the following is an accurate statement of what the law currently is.  

Student Prayers

1. Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests, and discuss religion with other willing student listeners. In the classroom students have the right to pray quietly except when required to be actively engaged in school activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply to other speech in these locations. However, the right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example, the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel other students to participate.  

Graduation Prayer and Baccalaureates

2. School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation, nor may they organize a religious baccalaureate ceremony. If the school generally rents out its facilities to private groups, it must rent them out on the same terms, and on a first- come first-served basis, to organizers of privately sponsored religious baccalaureate services, provided that the school does not extend preferential treatment to the baccalaureate ceremony and the school disclaims official endorsement of the program.  

3. The courts have reached conflicting conclusions under the federal Constitution on student-initiated prayer at graduation. Until the issue is authoritatively resolved, schools should ask their lawyers what rules apply in their area.  

Official Participation or Encouragement
of Religious Activity 

4. Teachers and school administrators, when acting in those capacities, are representatives of the state, and, in those capacities, are themselves prohibited from encouraging or soliciting student religious or anti-religious activity. Similarly, when acting in their official capacities, teachers may not engage in religious activities with their students. However, teachers may engage in private religious activity in faculty lounges.  

Teaching About Religion

5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said, "[i]t might well be said that one's education is not complete without a study of comparative religion, or the history of religion and its relationship to the advancement of civilization." It would be difficult to teach art, music, literature and most social studies without considering religious influences.  

The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects. It is both permissible and desirable to teach objectively about the role of religion in the history of the United States and other countries. One can teach that the Pilgrims came to this country with a particular religious vision, that Catholics and others have been subject to persecution or that many of those participating in the abolitionist, women's suffrage and civil rights movements had religious motivations.  

6. These same rules apply to the recurring controversy surrounding theories of evolution. Schools may teach about explanations of life on earth, including religious ones (such as "creationism"), in comparative religion or social studies classes. In science class, however, they may present only genuinely scientific critiques of, or evidence for, any explanation of life on earth, but not religious critiques (beliefs unverifiable by scientific methodology). Schools may not refuse to teach evolutionary theory in order to avoid giving offense to religion nor may they circumvent these rules by labeling as science an article of religious faith. Public schools must not teach as scientific fact or theory any religious doctrine, including "creationism," although any genuinely scientific evidence for or against any explanation of life may be taught. Just as they may neither advance nor inhibit any religious doctrine, teachers should not ridicule, for example, a student's religious explanation for life on earth.  

Student Assignments and Religion

7. Students may express their religious beliefs in the form of reports, homework and artwork, and such expressions are constitutionally protected. Teachers may not reject or correct such submissions simply because they include a religious symbol or address religious themes. Likewise, teachers may not require students to modify, include or excise religious views in their assignments, if germane. These assignments should be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance, relevance, appearance and grammar.  

8. Somewhat more problematic from a legal point of view are other public expressions of religious views in the classroom. Unfortunately for school officials, there are traps on either side of this issue, and it is possible that litigation will result no matter what course is taken. It is easier to describe the settled cases than to state clear rules of law. Schools must carefully steer between the claims of student speakers who assert a right to express themselves on religious subjects and the asserted rights of student listeners to be free of unwelcome religious persuasion in a public school classroom.  

a. Religious or anti-religious remarks made in the ordinary course of classroom discussion or student presentations are permissible and constitute a protected right. If in a sex education class a student remarks that abortion should be illegal because God has prohibited it, a teacher should not silence the remark, ridicule it, rule it out of bounds or endorse it, any more than a teacher may silence a student's religiously-based comment in favor of choice. 

b. If a class assignment calls for an oral presentation on a subject of the student's choosing, and, for example, the student responds by conducting a religious service, the school has the right -- as well as the duty -- to prevent itself from being used as a church. Other students are not voluntarily in attendance and cannot be forced to become an unwilling congregation.  

c. Teachers may rule out-of-order religious remarks that are irrelevant to the subject at hand. In a discussion of Hamlet's sanity, for example, a student may not interject views on creationism.

Distribution of Religious Literature

9. Students have the right to distribute religious literature to their schoolmates, subject to those reasonable time, place, and manner or other constitutionally- acceptable restrictions imposed on the distribution of all non-school literature. Thus, a school may confine distribution of all literature to a particular table at particular times. It may not single out religious literature for burdensome regulation.  

10. Outsiders may not be given access to the classroom to distribute religious or anti-religious literature. No court has yet considered whether, if all other community groups are permitted to distribute literature in common areas of public schools, religious groups must be allowed to do so on equal terms subject to reasonable time, place and manner restrictions.  

"See You at the Pole"

11. Student participation in before- or after-school events, such as "see you at the pole," is permissible. School officials, acting in an official capacity, may neither discourage nor encourage participation in such an event.  

Religious Persuasion Versus Religious Harassment

12. Students have the right to speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about religious topics just as they do with regard to political topics. But school officials should intercede to stop student religious speech if it turns into religious harassment aimed at a student or a small group of students. While it is constitutionally permissible for a student to approach another and issue an invitation to attend church, repeated invitations in the face of a request to stop constitute harassment. Where this line is to be drawn in particular cases will depend on the age of the students and other circumstances.  

Equal Access Act

13. Student religious clubs in secondary schools must be permitted to meet and to have equal access to campus media to announce their meetings, if a school receives federal funds and permits any student non-curricular club to meet during non-instructional time. This is the command of the Equal Access Act. A non-curricular club is any club not related directly to a subject taught or soon-to-be taught in the school. Although schools have the right to ban all non-curriculum clubs, they may not dodge the law's requirement by the expedient of declaring all clubs curriculum-related. On the other hand, teachers may not actively participate in club activities and "non-school persons" may not control or regularly attend club meeting.  

The Act's constitutionality has been upheld by the Supreme Court, rejecting claims that the Act violates the Establishment Clause. The Act's requirements are described in more detail in The Equal Access Act and the Public Schools: Questions and Answers on the Equal Access Act*, a pamphlet published by a broad spectrum of religious and civil liberties groups.  

Religious Holidays

14. Generally, public schools may teach about religious holidays, and may celebrate the secular aspects of the holiday and objectively teach about their religious aspects. They may not observe the holidays as religious events. Schools should generally excuse students who do not wish to participate in holiday events. Those interested in further details should see Religious Holidays in the Public Schools: Questions and Answers*, a pamphlet published by a broad spectrum of religious and civil liberties groups.  

Excusal From Religiously-Objectionable Lessons

15. Schools enjoy substantial discretion to excuse individual students from lessons which are objectionable to that student or to his or her parent on the basis of religion. Schools can exercise that authority in ways which would defuse many conflicts over curriculum content. If it is proved that particular lessons substantially burden a student's free exercise of religion and if the school cannot prove a compelling interest in requiring attendance the school would be legally required to excuse the student.  

Teaching Values

16. Schools may teach civic virtues, including honesty, good citizenship, sportsmanship, courage, respect for the rights and freedoms of others, respect for persons and their property, civility, the dual virtues of moral conviction and tolerance and hard work. Subject to whatever rights of excusal exist (see #15 above) under the federal Constitution and state law, schools may teach sexual abstinence and contraception; whether and how schools teach these sensitive subjects is a matter of educational policy. However, these may not be taught as religious tenets. The mere fact that most, if not all, religions also teach these values does not make it unlawful to teach them.  

Student Garb

17. Religious messages on T-shirts and the like may not be singled out for suppression. Students may wear religious attire, such as yarmulkes and head scarves, and they may not be forced to wear gym clothes that they regard, on religious grounds, as immodest.  

Released Time

18. Schools have the discretion to dismiss students to off-premises religious instruction, provided that schools do not encourage or discourage participation or penalize those who do not attend. 20. Schools may not allow religious instruction by outsiders on premises during the school day.  

Appendix

Organizational Signers of "Religion in the Public Schools: A Joint Statement of Current Law"  

American Civil Liberties Union
American Ethical Union
American Humanist Association
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
American Muslim Council
Americans for Religious Liberty
Americans United for Seperation of Church and State
Anti-Defamation League
Baptist Joint Committee
B'nai B'rith
Christian Legal Society
Christian Science Church
Church of Scientology International
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 
Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs
Federation of Reconstructionist Congregations and Havurot
Friends Committee on National Legislation
General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Guru Gobind Singh Foundation
Interfaith Alliance
Interfaith Impact for Justice and Peace
National Association of Evangelicals
National Council of Churches
National Council of Jewish Women
National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council (NJCRAC) 
National Ministries, American Baptist Churches, USA
National Sikh Center
North American Council for Muslim Women
People for the American Way
Presbyterian Church (USA) 
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Union of American Hebrew Congregations 
Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations
United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society

Contendah, my Friend,

 

No matter how much you copy/paste (shades of Vic) about the ACLU -- the fact remains that its origins were Socialist and Communist.   And, the fact remains that even today -- it is anti-Christian and anti-God.   If that is the kind of folks you choose to stand with, God bless you.

 

Personally, I will stand with God.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Joshua 24-15 - Sunset

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

No matter how much you copy/paste (shades of Vic) about the ACLU -- the fact remains that its origins were Socialist and Communist.   And, the fact remains that even today -- it is anti-Christian and anti-God.   If that is the kind of folks you choose to stand with, God bless you.

 

Personally, I will stand with God.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

 

_______________

Ummmmm, no it is not.  It is pro-Constitution.  You have a problem with the Constitution?  What kind of communist are you? 

 

 

billthecat_1400

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Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

No matter how much you copy/paste (shades of Vic) about the ACLU -- the fact remains that its origins were Socialist and Communist.   And, the fact remains that even today -- it is anti-Christian and anti-God.   If that is the kind of folks you choose to stand with, God bless you.

 

Personally, I will stand with God.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

 

_______________

Ummmmm, no it is not.  It is pro-Constitution.  You have a problem with the Constitution?  What kind of communist are you? 

 

Of course, I can see how you are confused by facts, once again, and as always.

 

billthecat_1400

 

Crusty, my Friend,

 

If you had the intelligence to google "History of the ACLU" -- not what they say about themselves -- but what the rest of the world knows about them; you would find that what I have written is true.

 

On the other hand, being an atheist you have never been interested in the truth anyway; so why bother?

 

Bless your little heart!

 

Bill

HISTORY OF THE ACLU:

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is a nonpartisan non-profit organization whose stated mission is "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States."[5] It works through litigation, lobbying, and community education. Founded in 1920 by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, George Kessler, Helen Keller and Walter Nelles, the ACLU has over 500,000 members and has an annual budget over $100 million. Local affiliates of the ACLU are active in all 50 states and Puerto Rico. The ACLU provides legal assistance in cases when it considers civil liberties to be at risk. Legal support from the ACLU can take the form of direct legal representation, or preparation of amicus curiae briefs expressing legal arguments (when another law firm is already providing representation).

When the ACLU was founded in 1920, its focus was on freedom of speech, primarily for anti-war protesters. During the 1920s, the ACLU expanded its scope to include protecting the free speech rights of artists and striking workers, and working with the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) to combat racism and discrimination. During the 1930s, the ACLU started to engage in work combating police misconduct and for Native American rights. Most of the ACLU's cases came from the Communist party and Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1940, the ACLU leadership was caught up in the Red Scare, and voted to exclude Communists from its leadership positions. During World War II, the ACLU defended Japanese-American citizens, unsuccessfully trying to prevent their forcible relocation to internment camps. During the Cold War, the ACLU headquarters was dominated by anti-communists, but many local affiliates defended members of the Communist Party.

By 1964, membership had risen to 80,000, and the ACLU participated in efforts to expand civil liberties. In the 1960s, the ACLU continued its decades-long effort to enforce separation of church and state. It defended several anti-war activists during the Vietnam War. The ACLU was involved in the Miranda case, which addressed misconduct by police during interrogations; and in the New York Times case, which established new protections for newspapers reporting on government activities. In the 1970s and 1980s, the ACLU ventured into new legal areas, defending homosexuals, students, prisoners, and the poor. In the twenty-first century, the ACLU has fought the teaching of creationism in public schools and challenged some provisions of anti-terrorism legislation as infringing on privacy and civil liberties.

In addition to representing persons and organizations in lawsuits, the ACLU lobbies for policies that have been established by its board of directors. Current positions of the ACLU include: opposing the death penalty; supporting same-sex marriage and the right of gays to adopt; supporting birth control and abortion rights; eliminating discrimination against women, minorities, and LGBT people; supporting the rights of prisoners and opposing torture; supporting the right of religious persons to practice their faiths without government interference; and opposing government preference for religion over non-religion, or for particular faiths over others.

AND ANOTHER:

American Civil Liberties Union

American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), nonpartisan organization devoted to the preservation and extension of the basic rights set forth in the U.S. Constitution. Founded (1920) by such prominent figures as Jane Addams, Helen Keller, Judah Magnus, and Norman Thomas, the ACLU grew out of earlier groups that had defended the rights of conscientious objectors during World War I. Its program is directed toward three major areas of civil liberties: inquiry and expression, including freedom of speech, press, assembly, and religion; equality before the law for everyone, regardless of race, nationality, sex, political opinion, or religious belief; and due process of law for all. Its most significant and successful activities have involved court tests of important civil liberties issues. Since its founding, the ACLU has participated directly or indirectly in almost every major civil liberties case contested in American courts. Among these are the so-called Scopes monkey trial in Tennessee (1925), the Sacco-Vanzetti case (1920s), the federal court test (1933) that ended the censorship of James Joyce's Ulysses, and the landmark Brown v. Board of Education (1954) school desegregation case. In the late 1970s the ACLU defended the right of a neo-**** group to march in Skokie, Ill. The ACLU has about 275,000 members in its state organizations. The national office, located in New York City, also supports lobbying and educational activity on behalf of civil liberties issues.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Crusty, my Friend,

 

If you had the intelligence to google "History of the ACLU" -- not what they say about themselves -- but what the rest of the world knows about them; you would find that what I have written is true.

 

On the other hand, being an atheist you have never been interested in the truth anyway; so why bother?

 

Bless your little heart!

 

Bill

______________

Bill, if you weren't spending so much time wiping the drool off of your chin, you might be able to focus enough for critical analysis of whatever websites you are looking at.  Were you to do that, you would find most of your preferred sites to be Liars for Jesus, and other people misrepresenting the truth. 

 

Your gullibility knows no bounds.

 

Take a look at Contendah's post, and actually comment on it.  Try not to wander off-topic.

 

 

bill gullible

 

Oh, and I'm not an atheist you dumbass.

 

 

bill dumbass

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DHS, my Friend,

 

You have been reading the ACLU web site.  Try looking at the truth found in non-ACLU written web sites:

 

The Communist Founders of the ACLU
http://defeatcommunism.com/gro...orum/topics/the-aclu

Roger Baldwin:

 

 

Roger Baldwin, the first director of the ACLU, was also a communist.  He explains in his book, "Liberty Under the Soviets," -- "I joined.  I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.  I knew what I was doing.  I was not an innocent liberal.  I wanted what the Communists wanted…”

 

Roger Baldwin - Founded the ACLU in 1920. 

 

Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party.  Earl Browder, then General Secretary of the Communist Party, said the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party.

 

Baldwin also stated, “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

 

So, as I stated earlier, the ACLU is a Communist founded, anti-God, anti-Christian organization which will do anything to take God out of America.

 

And, the ACLU seems to have a handful of admirers and followers on the Religion Forum.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 - USA_Flag-Map_Cross-Hands - NEEDS - Outline-1a

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Bill,  

 

With your blinders on, and your ingrained hard-shell prejudices pegged completely out, you repeatedly ignore the truth about the ACLU.  Here is an excerpt from an ACLU web site, including a lengthy clickable partial list of cases in which the ACLU has defended the religious rights of Americans:

 

<<<<The ACLU fights just as hard for INDIVIDUAL free exercise of religion as the ACLU fights against GOVERNMENT endorsement, sponsorship, or establishment of religion. Despite this fact, many people spread misinformation about the ACLU around the internet, innocently and maliciously, falsely claiming the ACLU is anti-religion or anti-Christian. 

This list of FACTS counteracts that misinformation. These links represent just a few of the many examples of the ACLU defending the free speech and free exercise rights of Christians (for purposes of this list, the word “Christian” means a person who self-identifies as “Christian&rdquo

In every example, the ACLU is defending the right of a Christian to speak as a Christian or to practice Christianity

Here is the current version of this EVER GROWING list: 

ACLU of Colorado Supports Students Wearing Christian Symbols in the Colorado Springs School District

ACLU-NJ Defends Christian Student's Anti-Abortion Speech

ACLU of Tennessee Defends Christian Students' Right to Preach in Public Park

ACLU of Virginia Defends Christian Students' Right to Protest Against ACLU at Public School

ACLU Defends Christian Students Wearing Anti-Islam Shirts to Florida Public School

ACLU Fights For Christian Inmate's Right to Preach

ACLU of Northern California Fights Law that Got Quakers Fired Over Loyalty Oath

ACLU Defends Christian Librarian Disciplined for Refusing to Promote Harry Potter

 ACLU Defends Right of Individual Christian to Display Nativity Scene on Public Property

ACLU Defends Christians Protesting Gay Rights in Florida

ACLU Champions Religious Freedom Of Mormon College Student

ACLU Fights for Christian Church's Mission to Feed the Poor

 

ACLU Fights for Christmas Tree

 

ACLU Files Suit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protesting Wal-Mart's Policy on Gays

ACLU of Georgia and Baptist Church File Religious Discrimination Lawsuit 

ACLU of Rhode Island Files Appeal on Behalf of Christian Prisoner Barred from Preaching at Religious Services

ACLU of Michigan Defends Catholic Man Coerced to Convert to Pentecostal Faith in Drug Rehab Program

ACLU of New Jersey Joins Lawsuit Supporting Second-Grader's Right to Sing "Awesome God" at Talent Show 

After ACLU Intervention on Behalf of Christian Valedictorian, Michigan High School Agrees to Stop Censoring Religious Yearbook Entries

ACLU Helps Free New Mexico Street Preacher From Prison

ACLU of WA Wins Right of Christian Minister to Preach in Spokane Plaza

ACLU Fights for Baptist Preacher in Illinois

ACLU Defends Rights of Christian Group to Make Religious Protest at Funerals

ACLU Backs Christian Abortion Protester in Ohio

ACLU of Oregon Defends Religious Liberty Of Adventist School Boys Basketball Players

ACLU Backs Missouri Nurse Penalized for Wearing Cross-Shaped Lapel Pin

ACLU Defends Christian Street Preacher in Las Vegas

 

ACLU Defends Rights of Christian Group to Make Religious Protest at Funerals

ACLU Backs Christian Abortion Protester in Ohio

ACLU of Oregon Defends Religious Liberty Of Adventist School Boys Basketball Players

ACLU Backs Missouri Nurse Penalized for Wearing Cross-Shaped Lapel Pin

ACLU Defends Christian Street Preacher in Las Vegas

ACLU Argues for Legal Recognition of Small Christian Church

ACLU of MA Defends Students Punished for Distributing Candy Canes with Religious Messages

ACLU of Nebraska Defends Church Facing Eviction by the City of Lincoln

ACLU Defends Church's Right to Run "Anti-Santa" Ads in Boston Subways

ACLU Defends Inmate's Access to Material from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

 

 

Following Threat of ACLU of Virginia Lawsuit, Officials to Agree Not to Ban Baptisms in Public Parks

ACLU Defends Families Fighting Removal Of Religious Symbols from Florida Cemetery

ACLU Supports Right of Iowa Students to Distribute Christian Literature at School

ACLU Argument In Support of the Display of a Christian Cross in a Public Forum

ACLU Defends Christian Worker Required to Remove Bible from Desk at Government Job

ACLU Defends Free Speech Rights of Christians And Others On Main Street Plaza

ACLU Defends Prisoner's Rosary Beads

ACLU Defends Christian Group's Anti-Abortion Ads On Phoenix Buses

ACLU Pledges to Back Church in a Zoning Battle

ACLU of PA Files Discrimination Lawsuit Over Denial of Zoning Permit for African American Baptist Church

ACLU Offers To Represent Private Prayer on Public Property 

ACLU Joins Falwell To Fight For Church Incorporation Rights

Hi all,

 

My Friend, Contendah, tells me, "With your blinders on, and your ingrained hard-shell prejudices pegged completely out, you repeatedly ignore the truth about the ACLU.  Here is an excerpt from an ACLU web site,. . ."

 

Well, golly gee whiz!  How could I have overlooked what the ACLU tells us about themselves?   Contendah, I will bet that the liberal, legalistic church you are ashamed to name -- also has wonderful things to day about their misguided theology.

 

Come to think of it -- I don't believe I know any group who will say bad things about themselves!

 

So, how could I possibly have overlooked what a wonderful Christian organization we find in the ACLU?

 

As Steve Martin is known to say, "Well, EXCUSE ME!"

 

Contendah, my Friend, please feel free to worship at the ACLU altar if you like.   But, if you don't mind -- I will stay with God.

 

Bless your little ACLU heart!

 

Bill

 

Joshua 24-15 - Sunset

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

My Friend, Contendah, tells me, "With your blinders on, and your ingrained hard-shell prejudices pegged completely out, you repeatedly ignore the truth about the ACLU.  Here is an excerpt from an ACLU web site,. . ."

 

Well, golly gee whiz!  How could I have overlooked what the ACLU tells us about themselves?   Contendah, I will bet that the liberal, legalistic church you are ashamed to name -- also has wonderful things to day about their misguided theology.

 

Come to think of it -- I don't believe I know any group who will say bad things about themselves!

 

So, how could I possibly have overlooked what a wonderful Christian organization we find in the ACLU?

 

As Steve Martin is known to say, "Well, EXCUSE ME!"

 

Contendah, my Friend, please feel free to worship at the ACLU altar if you like.   But, if you don't mind -- I will stay with God.

 

Bless your little ACLU heart!

 

Bill

 

Bill,

 

That alleged "excerpt" you purported to post was not to be found in what you submitted.

 

It is interesting and revealing that you chose not to comment at all on the documented dozens and dozens of cases in which the ACLU has defended religion.  But it is typical of your disordered concept of discussion to ignore that for which you have no adequate response.

 

Contendh, my Friend,

This is what I posted earlier.  Are you saying that you could not open the link -- or that what I found there -- is not there?  Try reading while wearing your glasses.  Posted above:

 

You have been reading the ACLU web site.  Try looking at the truth found in non-ACLU written web sites:

 

The Communist Founders of the ACLU
http://defeatcommunism.com/gro...orum/topics/the-aclu

Roger Baldwin:

 

 

Roger Baldwin, the first director of the ACLU, was also a communist.  He explains in his book, "Liberty Under the Soviets," -- "I joined.  I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.  I knew what I was doing.  I was not an innocent liberal.  I wanted what the Communists wanted…”

 

Roger Baldwin - Founded the ACLU in 1920. 

 

Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party.  Earl Browder, then General Secretary of the Communist Party, said the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party.

 

Baldwin also stated, “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

 

So, as I stated earlier, the ACLU is a Communist founded, anti-God, anti-Christian organization which will do anything to take God out of America.

What I have shown there is taken verbatim from that web site.  All I did was to break it down into more readable paragraphs.  Here is what is posted on that web site, broken into only two paragraphs so that it will not confuse you:

 

Roger Baldwin, the first director of the ACLU, was also a communist.  He explains in his book, Liberty Under the Soviets, "I joined. I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.  I knew what I was doing.  I was not an innocent liberal.  I wanted what the Communists wanted…”   Roger Baldwin - Founded the ACLU in 1920.

 

Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party.  Earl Browder, then General Secretary of the Communist Party, said the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party.  Baldwin also stated “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

 

That, my Friend, is YOUR Communist ACLU!   Love it or leave it!

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

Bill,

Continuing in your puerile, moronic, tunnel-visioned mode, you blither:

 

"So, as I stated earlier, the ACLU is a Communist founded, anti-God, anti-Christian organization which will do anything to take God out of America."

 

Now tell us just how that all-subsuming indictment can be consistent with the well-documented record I provided of the multiplicity of cases in which the ACLU has defended Christianity! Why would an organization committed to "... do[ing] anything to take God out of America." possibly extend its resources to defend religion in scores of instances in numerous courts of law??!!

 

"By their fruits ye shall know them."  I believe Jesus said that.

 

It does not compute, Bill.  Your accusations are irremediably ridiculous!

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

DHS, my Friend,

 

You have been reading the ACLU web site.  Try looking at the truth found in non-ACLU written web sites:

 

The Communist Founders of the ACLU
http://defeatcommunism.com/gro...orum/topics/the-aclu

Roger Baldwin:

 

 

Roger Baldwin, the first director of the ACLU, was also a communist.  He explains in his book, "Liberty Under the Soviets," -- "I joined.  I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause.  I knew what I was doing.  I was not an innocent liberal.  I wanted what the Communists wanted…”

 

Roger Baldwin - Founded the ACLU in 1920. 

 

Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party.  Earl Browder, then General Secretary of the Communist Party, said the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party.

 

Baldwin also stated, “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

 

So, as I stated earlier, the ACLU is a Communist founded, anti-God, anti-Christian organization which will do anything to take God out of America.

 

And, the ACLU seems to have a handful of admirers and followers on the Religion Forum.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 - USA_Flag-Map_Cross-Hands - NEEDS - Outline-1a

Bill, you are an idiot! What I posted was not from the ACLU website. Oh, and I AM NOT your friend!

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Contendah, my Friend,

 

The whole world KNOWS that the ACLU was founded by Communist -- except you!

 

Man, talk about blinders!

 

Bless your blind little heart!

 

Bill

____

I have not disputed the fact that Roger Baldwin was one of the founders of the ACLU.  I happen to know more about Baldwin than you do, which is not hard to do.  Consider this information from Wikipedia (bold emphasis is mine):

 

<<<<<<In 1927, he had visited the Soviet Union and wrote a book, Liberty Under the Soviets. Originally, at the beginning of the ACLU, he had said, "Communism, of course, is the goal." Later, however, as more and more information came out about Joseph Stalin's regime in the Soviet Union, Baldwin became more and more disillusioned with Soviet-style communism and called it "A NEW SLAVERY" (capitalized in the original).[4] He condemned "the inhuman communist police state tyranny".[5]

 

 

In the 1940s, Baldwin led the campaign to purge the ACLU of Communist Party members.[5]

In 1947, General Douglas MacArthur invited him to Japan to foster the growth of civil liberties in that country. In Japan, he founded the Japan Civil Liberties Union, and the Japanese government awarded him the Order of the Rising Sun. In 1948, Germany and Austria invited him for similar purposes. He was elected a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1951.[6]

 

*              *            *          *          *

 

President Jimmy Carter awarded Baldwin the Medal of Freedom on 16 January 1981.>>>>>

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Nash_Baldwin

 

Given the above FACTS, Bill, your knee-jerky characterization of Baldwin and your imputation of alleged communistic/socialistic affinities to the ACLU are just pure silliness.  You have yet to comment on that very extensive list of cases I provided in which the ACLU defended freedom of religion across a wide spectrum of belief systems and situations.  That list, it would seem, has become something of a third rail for you.  

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

DHS, my Friend,

 

Regardless of where you found your info -- there is too much documented proof that the ACLU was founded by Communist -- to deny it.   An apple does not become an orange -- just by wearing a different hat.

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

Devil Was Once An Angel

Do not EVER use that condescending "Bless you heart" crap with me! You hard-headed piece of crap! I don't care who founded the ACLU, you have been shown explicit examples of how they have defended religious freedom and well as many other good things. you are just too stupid to read and comprehend anything that differs from your twisted view of reality. You are a waste of flesh and oxygen.

Last edited by DHS-86
Originally Posted by DHS-86:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

< troll's inane drivel snipped>

----------------------------

Do not EVER use that condescending "Bless you heart" crap with me! You hard-headed piece of crap! I don't care who founded the ACLU, you have been shown explicit examples of how they have defended religious freedom and well as many other good things. you are just too stupid to read and comprehend anything that differs from your twisted view of reality. You are a waste of flesh and oxygen.

--------------------------------

Well said, my friend... You have well expressed the feelings of the vast majority of this forum's readers...

 

 

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
Originally Posted by DHS-86:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

< troll's inane drivel snipped>

----------------------------

Do not EVER use that condescending "Bless you heart" crap with me! You hard-headed piece of crap! I don't care who founded the ACLU, you have been shown explicit examples of how they have defended religious freedom and well as many other good things. you are just too stupid to read and comprehend anything that differs from your twisted view of reality. You are a waste of flesh and oxygen.

--------------------------------

Well said, my friend... You have well expressed the feelings of the vast majority of this forum's readers...

 

 _________________

And a hearty AMEN to that, Dove and DHS. Isn't it about time all of us bailed out from this string?  Bill Gray's intractable unreasonableness has thoroughly contaminated this discussion.

He has all the information he could possibly need in order to know the TRUTH concerning the ACLU's record of defending religious freedom, but since he is about as dense as depleted uranium, he will not acknowledge the TRUTH!

 

Hi y'all,

 

I'll pull one of Vic's little tricks:   PERIOD!

 


 

Return of The Mojave Desert Veterans Memorial Cross

January 30th, 2013

http://www.libertyinstitute.or...se/salazar-v-buono-2

 


Mojave Desert Cross Re-installed

Salazar v. Buono

 

For more than 70 years, the Mojave Desert Veterans Memorial Cross stood atop Sunrise Rock in the middle of the 1.6 million-acre Mojave National Preserve in California. Suddenly, the complaint of one individual living out of state sparked a national controversy that compromised the fate of this veterans memorial and other memorials across the country that have religious imagery.

 

Unfortunately, cases like this are becoming more frequent, and Liberty Institute is working hard to defend our veterans memorials against the ACLU, Freedom From Religion and other atheist groups. If even one of these memorials bearing religious imagery fall, where will it end?

 

The Facts

  • The Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) first erected the Mojave Desert Veterans Memorial cross in 1934 in honor of World War I veterans.
  • Riley Bembry, one of the founders of the memorial and a veteran of World War I, took care of the cross until his death in 1984. Shortly before his passing, he asked his friend, Henry Sandoz, to care for the memorial. Since that time, Henry and his wife, Wanda, have faithfully looked after the cross.
  • In 2001, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) filed a lawsuit on behalf of a man living in Oregon, who argued that the cross was unconstitutional as it was located on government land.  Lower federal courts agreed, ordering the removal of the cross, and prohibiting Congress from transferring the cross and the land on which it sat to the VFW.
  • To help save the memorial, Liberty Institute stepped in and filed an amicus brief at the U.S. Supreme Court on behalf of the VFW, The American Legion, Military Order of the Purple Heart and American Ex-Prisoners of War.
  • In 2010, the Supreme Court reversed the lower courts ruling and declared that a law passed by Congress in 2003 was constitutional.  The law allowed the transfer of the memorial, and the land upon which it stood, to the VFW in exchange for land elsewhere in Mojave Desert owned by Henry Sandoz.
  • Just days after that ruling, vandals stole the cross, but the VFW promised that the memorial will be rebuilt once the case is finally over and the VFW become the official landowners of the small patch of desert where the cross once stood.
  • In April 2012, US. District Court Judge Robert J. Timlin signed an order ending the ACLU lawsuit, paving the way for the transfer of the original memorial site on Sunrise Rock to the VFW.
  • On November 11, 2012, more than 200 supporters turned out for a special Veterans Day celebration, which included the long-awaited restoration and rededication of the new, Mojave Desert Veterans Memorial Cross. The Sandozes, members of the VFW and the American Legion took turns reflecting on the historic moment – a moment 11 years in the making.

This was a great victory for our veterans and for religious freedom, and once again, we defeated the ACLU.  Unfortunately, there are still many fights ahead. There are no limits to what these radical groups will do to erase all signs of faith from public view.

 

Liberty Institute is not backing down, but we need you to stand with us, and with our veterans who paid the ultimate price for our freedoms. We need your prayers and your financial support. Because, when we have the support to defend our constitutional freedoms, we WIN!

 


 

And, that my Friends is the true heart of the Communist Founded ACLU.

 

Bless their little hearts!

 

Bill

 

Joshua 24-15 - Sunset

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They didn't defeat the ACLU.  If you had actually read what you posted, you will see that the cross was on government land.  In order to keep the cross on that land, the land had to be transferred to the VFW.  The ACLU actually won the case, the cross is no longer unconstitutionally on government land, but instead on private land. 

 

I guess there are no Jews in that particular VFW, or they just don't care about veterans who are not Christian.

 

Here's your Kleenex, Bill DHL. 

 

 

bill kleenex

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